Re: [crossfire] Buildable Land Plots
At some level, also have to decide how far this goes. IMO, at its heart, crossfire is an adventure type game, not a sim. The issue being that we probably can't be as good as a sim as a game dedicated for that purpose. I'd suggest getting the basics done first and worry about some of the likely less used things later (subcontracting buildings) I totally agree. Let's do the basics first, then we'll have fun extending :) Sometimes it's good to be real ambitious, but sometimes it's better to do step by step. Ryo Accédez au courrier électronique de La Poste : www.laposte.net ; 3615 LAPOSTENET (0,34/mn) ; tél : 08 92 68 13 50 (0,34/mn) ___ crossfire mailing list crossfire@metalforge.org http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire
Re: [crossfire] Buildable Land Plots
On 9/28/05, Alex Schultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: would enhance crossfire as a MORPG, because: 1) It increases player interaction by giving customizable maps that one can invite others into without having to bother with guilds and their storage rooms and such. IMO increased player interaction is something crossfire is in need of. 2) It plain gives players more to customize, which is a positive thing when it neither unbalances the game nor changes the genre You forgot a third one, it gives players something to do with all the money that they can currently collect. Currently there are ways to get money (alchemy dungeon crawling) which work ad infinitum, however the existing ways of spending money (slot machines, apartments, equipment) is fairly limited, so that, after the first million platinum or so, there isn't a whole lot to spend money on. However introducing a status element that can require vast expenditure, should be a nice way to take money away from the fool^H^H^H^H rich. - especially if there are enough glitzy things that can costs tens of thousands of platinum each (like mikee's coloured tiled floors in constructor form) ___ crossfire mailing list crossfire@metalforge.org http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire
Re: [crossfire] Buildable Land Plots
On 9/28/05, Todd Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believe if you ask people if the built maps are superior to the random maps, you would hear that players like the built maps better. I'm not quite sure your image of what is being described, and what is attempted to being described quite match up. we are talking about random maps yes, but random mostly empty maps. you might well have a map that looks like (in rogue style graphics...) ... ... ..T...T .TT ..R. ... ... .~~ T.B.~ ..~ I've probably miscounted the width of some of those lines, but assume they are all the same width (T - tree B - bush R - rock ~- water) and every square would have can_build 1 on it Since most players aren't into making maps - perhaps they may find it a bit hard or at least annoying to have to build things They would be using constructors, not the map editor. and they might like to buy something like the guild houses with things like trophy rooms, pet kennels, guest rooms and other special areas. They are already available in several towns throughout the game world... At least with house templates you can have these nice features and make fun quests for players to access them. You can have nice constructors and have quests to access them too (for example a stone wall constructor, or a metal door constructor). For personalization, well you can add many rooms that are buildable to the different house templates. Also the blueprints/templates way is an easy way to set different house styles on the map (houses, long houses, keeps, castles, guilds, temples...) to represent the building This is true, I'm not sure if there is a nice way to do this. and a good way to set the starting price. Well, I was thinking to charge by plot (abuse the town portal marker, so that if it points to a valid plot square you 'ask' for that one), and charge based on proximity to entrances, roads etc although then all the constructors would have their own price, so a bigger buliding, would need more constructors than a smaller one. Nothing stopping you from coding up a storm in any case, I'm sure you have ready counter-arguments to this post. I will upload the templates I worked on before so they are available in any case. Excellent, if nothing else, they will give a good idea of how to balance the building shop treasure lists to avoid any of the standard items (walls, doors, wooden floors) being too rare. ___ crossfire mailing list crossfire@metalforge.org http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire
Re: [crossfire] Buildable Land Plots
It seems there are two camps here: the Players should build their own as it is a fun thing to do and players should get a pre-built map as it will make their life easier. I will propose a third, contradictory method, which sits in between, and will probably get ignored, as it will be more difficult to implement, but here we go anyways. A player buys a plot, and it starts off randomly generated. They can build the house themselves, or get themselves a house by contracting another player to build it. Something like construction skill would need to be introduced, so people can be professional builders and gain levels by offering their services as builders. Being high at the skill should probably decrease material cost to them, and maybe open up better construction materials (eg lvl 10 can make windows, at 20 you can place doors, at 20 stairs, and at 50 can build complex connected things). This way, a player not interested in construction can stay away from it, and for a player interested in architecture design will have a purpose in building things, and will want to get hired if not for the money, then for the ability to gain xp building the house. ___ crossfire mailing list crossfire@metalforge.org http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire
Re: [crossfire] Buildable Land Plots
On 9/28/05, Anton Oussik [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A player buys a plot, and it starts off randomly generated. They can build the house themselves, or get themselves a house by contracting another player to build it. Something like construction skill would need to be introduced, so people can be professional builders and gain levels by offering their services as builders. Being high at the skill should probably decrease material cost to them, and maybe open up better construction materials (eg lvl 10 can make windows, at 20 you can place doors, at 20 stairs, and at 50 can build complex connected things). I like this idea, but like you say, it is difficult to do, especially with the way constructors work currently. ___ crossfire mailing list crossfire@metalforge.org http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire
Re: [crossfire] Buildable Land Plots
Anton Oussik wrote: I will propose a third, contradictory method, which sits in between, and will probably get ignored, as it will be more difficult to implement, but here we go anyways. A player buys a plot, and it starts off randomly generated. They can build the house themselves, or get themselves a house by contracting another player to build it. Something like construction skill would need to be introduced, so people can be professional builders and gain levels by offering their services as builders. Being high at the skill should probably decrease material cost to them, and maybe open up better construction materials (eg lvl 10 can make windows, at 20 you can place doors, at 20 stairs, and at 50 can build complex connected things). This way, a player not interested in construction can stay away from it, and for a player interested in architecture design will have a purpose in building things, and will want to get hired if not for the money, then for the ability to gain xp building the house. Well, even if a construction skill wasn't implemented, the constructing players could still make a profit in money or traded items, and because the cost of building lots is high, they would be gaining in bargaining skill if they have that as well. Because of these factors, such behavior could potentially evolve from the social dynamics of crossfire anyways. Perhaps something like a central advertising area for one wanting a house built, and those willing to build, could be added to encourage this. Alex Schultz ___ crossfire mailing list crossfire@metalforge.org http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire
Re: [crossfire] Buildable Land Plots
Mark Wedel wrote: Well, I'd be in the camp that I want to buy my house prebuilt - I don't want to have to fiddle with putting walls down, doors, etc. But having a spot as a starting point could be nice. OTOH, I suppose the counter to that could why not just the scorn apartments or whatever. Whereas I would personally want to build it completely from scratch. IMHO it would be best to make both options available, with pros and cons to each, and I think that the main difference is the prebuilt ones could cost more to account for the materials cost. Even the blueprints ones do have uses other than the apartments do though, because one can invite others into it. Really, my counter is that IMHO building from scratch more fun, but really that's a rather personal thing. I have absolutely no problem with blueprints, so long as building from scratch is still available, and the pros and cons of each are properly balanced. At some level, also have to decide how far this goes. IMO, at its heart, crossfire is an adventure type game, not a sim. The issue being that we probably can't be as good as a sim as a game dedicated for that purpose. I'd suggest getting the basics done first and worry about some of the likely less used things later (subcontracting buildings) Indeed, which is why I'm personally starting step by step, starting with just working on the 'template maps' I've outlined in this thread. In terms of an adventure vs. sim, I feel that buildable plots in some form would enhance crossfire as a MORPG, because: 1) It increases player interaction by giving customizable maps that one can invite others into without having to bother with guilds and their storage rooms and such. IMO increased player interaction is something crossfire is in need of. 2) It plain gives players more to customize, which is a positive thing when it neither unbalances the game nor changes the genre In terms of things like contracting, I think that should be left to evolve from the social dynamics of the game, and therefore, if the players want it, they can get it, and if the players don't find it important then it won't float around without necessity. Really, a significant amount of the people who prefer MUDs to crossfire prefer the MUDs because of customizability elements such as this. Alex Schultz ___ crossfire mailing list crossfire@metalforge.org http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire
Re: [crossfire] Buildable Land Plots
Todd Mitchell wrote: What is the difference here? - a 'house in a box' would be a blueprint too, no? The point being made is that the store would sell a 'token' representing a building template the player would like to be built on site - the templates tells the apply invocation which maps to create and link to the exit it creates. You could call it a 'house kit' a 'blueprint' or even a 'doggydoo' if you like - you would need an arch to implement it in any case. I believe what he meant by a 'house in a box' is rather different. As I understand, he just means a nice package of buildable parts to start a house with from scratch so you don't have to forage around the few small building shops there currently are when you first build it. Also I am not sure what a 'global unique map' is but I was under the impression that to instantiate a building from a blueprint you should write a copy of the appropriate map (a committed template in the maps module) to the *var/maps* directory. What I meant by 'global unique map' (which was a bad term), is new class of map similar to unique maps and overlay maps which would be better to call 'template maps'. Storing in var/maps would not be appropriate, because this is where overlays are stored, not complete maps based off of a template, so they should have their own directory in var, which wouldn't be restricted to land plots, as I intend the template maps feature to be potentially useful for other parts of crossfire too. Also, you seem to be missing another part that IMO is important: -That I also plan to make is possible to make unique, and template, maps using the a map generated from the random map generator as a template. I believe this is how/where the weather code generates and stores the modified world maps with the weather effects. Building a house from a template should be as simple as grabbing the slaying field from the blueprint object to find the templates directory (e.g. /templates/house1) containing the maps in the template, replacing the return exit coordinates and perhaps some inventory checkers (set slaying to match a marker in the player's inventory so they can access their vault and trophy rooms) and then writing the new maps to the var/maps folder and poping a unique exit object on the world map on the zoned tile(s) the blueprint was invoked on. Naturally the map templates contain buildable areas, however even an 'empty' entirely buildable map would require a template since they would need a map size and return exit in the very least. IMHO, you seem to be missing what to be would be a significant part of the fun of land plots: Building the house from scratch, though it might be nice to have a prebuilt blueprint for when you don't want to spend time building details. However in my opinion, building from scratch *should* be the primary way of building, with the blueprints just as an alternative. Using the feature I'm describing above with using the random map generator, I feel more depth could be added to the land plots by making the random map generator randomly make little landscape details here and there that are different in every plot. In my opinion, if blueprints were encouraged as the primary method of making land plots, then too many would look too alike even with player modifications, which defeats a large part of what I think would make land plots so great, which is that every player's plot would be unique to them and of their own design. Such customizeability is something that I feel helps to make a great RPG. Sure you could encourage blueprints and have empty as an alternative, but I feel that the land plots may be somewhat dull if the blueprints become the primary way of making them as opposed to empty ones generated by the random map generator and built completely by the player. Alex Schultz ___ crossfire mailing list crossfire@metalforge.org http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire
