Re: [crossfire] exp loss changes
One way to work around this is that if a character has an exp loss, and permanent exp is in place, when they regain it, some of it goes to his total. I think perm exp can be used for two goals: - enable even really unskilled or unlucky players to level up even if they die a lot ; in which case increaseing perm xp at each chance is indeed a good idea - be a safety net for players wanting to try dungeons, so that even if they die they aren't too penalized anyway ; in this case I'm not sure increasing perm xp is such a good idea But anyway however this is adjusted, it can be changed later if needed :) Regards Nicoals -- Mon p'tit coin du web - http://nicolas.weeger.org signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ crossfire mailing list crossfire@metalforge.org http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire
Re: [crossfire] exp loss changes
On 10/16/11 02:12 AM, Nicolas Weeger wrote: One way to work around this is that if a character has an exp loss, and permanent exp is in place, when they regain it, some of it goes to his total. I think perm exp can be used for two goals: - enable even really unskilled or unlucky players to level up even if they die a lot ; in which case increaseing perm xp at each chance is indeed a good idea - be a safety net for players wanting to try dungeons, so that even if they die they aren't too penalized anyway ; in this case I'm not sure increasing perm xp is such a good idea The second case is probably a tough one - I suppose it depends on what percentage perm exp is set to, as well as what percentage is lost on death, but I suspect for most servers, the perm exp isn't going to help out on a single death, as it would take several deaths before you work down to your perm exp total. One area where perm exp comes into use now is hard to advance skills. The permanent exp will protect some portion of experience in those skills. For example, you get exp in some skill, and you may die a bunch of times before you advance it again - the perm exp protects at least some portion of that. In my new system, that doesn't really apply anymore - since skills don't have exp, you don't need to protect those skills (and with AP, hard to advance skills have sort of a different meaning) But anyway however this is adjusted, it can be changed later if needed :) One could certainly have 2 tunables here - maximum exp loss percentage, and percentage of new exp that is always added to new total. So one could have a server with perm exp at 50%, but only 25% for amount added to new exp. So on death, 75% of exp gained after that point goes to work off the exp loss, and only 25% goes to increasing the total. Or other server admins could set that to 0% added to new exp - you have to work off all your death loss before you get any more. I think the only gotcha here is that if percentage added to new total is greater than max loss, you would get in the situation that as the character regains exp, his current exp_loss would exceed what the limit should be based on his new total. ___ crossfire mailing list crossfire@metalforge.org http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire
Re: [crossfire] exp loss changes
On 10/12/11 10:04 PM, Rick Tanner wrote: On that page, in the notes, I mention that level loss will not result in loss of AP - rather, it just means that it will take longer before they get any new ones. Very interesting. With such a method, I was thinking that instead of decreasing exp from the player total, instead add a new field like exp_penalty or exp_loss. When a player dies, that field is increased by appropriate amount- exp_loss += (exp - exp_loss) * death_penalty_ratio. Then, any earned experience after that point gets applied to exp_loss first, and only when that is zero, does exp get applied to normal total. By chance could some of this exp loss by death or drain be regained through quest items/rewards or other in game mechanics? I didn't initially think about that, but yes, this would allow that to happen. A problem right now is there is no way to know how much exp a character has lost through death/draining. As such, there is no way to restore it - if you give a character 10,000 exp, that is just 10,000 exp, which means if the character has not lost exp, that is just a bonus. But by tracking loss, one could basically do something like exp_loss -= 1; if exp_loss 0 exp_loss=0; So things like quests, potions, spells, etc, could reduce that field, but if that field is already 0, they gain nothing. One could think of this to the restoration spell in ADD - it is used to regain lost levels, but doesn't give the character exp. So in crossfire, one could have expensive potions to get back that lost exp. This would make monsters that do drain attacks much less annoying than now - it might cost a fair amount of platinum to get that potion, but at least you could. Having spells that do it would probably not work, as it would just be too easy for players then. But potions, scrolls, praying at altars, etc, would seem to be possible solutions - and of course, there is nothing that they would have to restore it all - maybe they reduce it by 50%. One could repeat that many times and get the number closer and closer to zero, but still never get it to zero by that method. ___ crossfire mailing list crossfire@metalforge.org http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire
Re: [crossfire] exp loss changes
Just a note on this - changing it as suggested does effect permanent experience in a subtle way. Right now, experience you earn after losing experience still goes towards permanent experience. Suppose a situation where a character has 100,000 experience and has not died. Permanent exp is set at 20%, and a character loses 10% of exp on death. In the old system, character would have 20,000 perm exp. He dies, goes to 90,000 exp, and as he regains that 10K exp, he gets permanent experience for it, so when he is back at 100,000 (assuming no more deaths), his permanent experience is now 22,000, since that goes up on all exp gain. If the character is constantly dying, eventually he'll get down to his permanent exp total, at which he could slowly level up just by permanent experience. Under the suggested system, a characters would be limited to having an exp loss of 80% of total, or 80K. The character dies, his exp loss is 10K. If he gets to 100K again and dies, this could repeat forever - he will never get to a point where he is down to his permanent exp total. One way to work around this is that if a character has an exp loss, and permanent exp is in place, when they regain it, some of it goes to his total. Taking the above example, character dies. His exp total is still 100K, but he has 10K in exp_loss, so effective experience is 90K. He regains that 10K - 20% (2K) goes to his total, and 80% (8K) goes to the exp loss, so at the end, he has 102K total exp, and 2K exp loss - his effective total is still 100K, but he has not worked off all his loss. I think this would pretty closely match the permanent exp thing as is now. Since his real exp is slowly going up, the cap of his exp loss is also slowly going up. ___ crossfire mailing list crossfire@metalforge.org http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire
Re: [crossfire] exp loss changes
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 10/9/11 12:13 AM, Mark Wedel wrote: After long last, I've started work on the skill system I suggested at: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/user:mwedel:skills (it helps to have some free time between jobs) If that means what I think it does.. very sorry to hear this. On that page, in the notes, I mention that level loss will not result in loss of AP - rather, it just means that it will take longer before they get any new ones. Very interesting. With such a method, I was thinking that instead of decreasing exp from the player total, instead add a new field like exp_penalty or exp_loss. When a player dies, that field is increased by appropriate amount- exp_loss += (exp - exp_loss) * death_penalty_ratio. Then, any earned experience after that point gets applied to exp_loss first, and only when that is zero, does exp get applied to normal total. By chance could some of this exp loss by death or drain be regained through quest items/rewards or other in game mechanics? -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iD8DBQFOlnFuhHyvgBp+vH4RAoO7AKCYHtP+G8/n5dasEkvAUlJfyAh4xQCgx98H UDIIPBglVoFdC2O8LTLbqPQ= =m4YO -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ crossfire mailing list crossfire@metalforge.org http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire
[crossfire] exp loss changes
After long last, I've started work on the skill system I suggested at: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/user:mwedel:skills (it helps to have some free time between jobs) On that page, in the notes, I mention that level loss will not result in loss of AP - rather, it just means that it will take longer before they get any new ones. What I mean by this is lets suppose the character got to level 10, and spent the AP he got there. He dies or is drained, and is now level 9 - none of his existing skills are decreased (no way to really fairly do that), and he does not lose any AP. He adventures, regains level 10, but since this does not exceed the max level he previously achieved, he does not get any AP for that level - not until level 11 does he get any AP. Doing this avoids all sorts of headaches within the code, and from a player perspective, is perhaps a little nicer - since the character does not really lose a level, they can go back to the same map they died and still have a good chance at finishing it - except for stat loss, they are the same level before. With such a method, I was thinking that instead of decreasing exp from the player total, instead add a new field like exp_penalty or exp_loss. When a player dies, that field is increased by appropriate amount- exp_loss += (exp - exp_loss) * death_penalty_ratio. Then, any earned experience after that point gets applied to exp_loss first, and only when that is zero, does exp get applied to normal total. This system can be applied to the existing skill system, as well as monsters. I think this would also simplify the permanent exp ratios - in a sense, exp_loss gets limited to exp * permanent_exp_ratio - this would also mean that the permanent_exp_ratio can get changed on an existing server and work as expectedly (right now, it doesn't really, as permanent exp is added to the bucket as it is earned). I think for permanent exp servers, the output may be a bit more clear - show total exp earned, total penalty, and effective total. I also think that in many ways, this just simplifies a lot of the code. And if one did still want to reduce levels, that is pretty easy - just use exp - exp_loss when looking up what should be the level of the skill. Thoughts? ___ crossfire mailing list crossfire@metalforge.org http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire
