[cryptography] forward-secrecy =2048-bit in legacy browser/servers? (Re: [Cryptography] RSA equivalent key length/strength)

2013-09-25 Thread Adam Back

On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 11:59:50PM +1200, Peter Gutmann wrote:

Something that can sign a new RSA-2048 sub-certificate is called a CA.  For
a browser, it'll have to be a trusted CA.  What I was asking you to explain is
how the browsers are going to deal with over half a billion (source: Netcraft
web server survey) new CAs in the ecosystem when websites sign a new RSA-2048
sub-certificate.


This is all ugly stuff, and probably  3072 bit RSA/DH keys should be
deprecated in any new standard, but for the legacy work-around senario to
try to improve things while that is happening:

Is there a possibility with RSA-RSA ciphersuite to have a certified RSA
signing key, but that key is used to sign an RS key negotiation?

At least that was how the export ciphersuites worked (1024+ bit RSA auth,
512-bit export-grade key negotation).  And that could even be weakly forward
secret in that the 512bit RSA key could be per session.  I imagine that
ciphersuite is widely disabled at this point.

But wasnt there also a step-up certificate that allowed stronger keys if the
right certificate bits were set (for approved export use like banking.)
Would setting that bit in all certificates allow some legacy server/browsers
to get forward secrecy via large, temporary key negotiation only RSA keys? 


(You have to wonder if the 1024-bit max DH standard and code limits was bit
of earlier sabotage in itself.)

Adam
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Re: [cryptography] forward-secrecy =2048-bit in legacy browser/servers? (Re: [Cryptography] RSA equivalent key length/strength)

2013-09-25 Thread Peter Gutmann
Adam Back a...@cypherspace.org writes:

Is there a possibility with RSA-RSA ciphersuite to have a certified RSA
signing key, but that key is used to sign an RS key negotiation?

Yes, but not in the way you want.  This is what the 1990s-vintage RSA export
ciphersuites did, but they were designed so you couldn't use them to provide
strong security.

I imagine that ciphersuite is widely disabled at this point.

That'd be the other problem :-).

Peter.

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