Re: [css-d] button hover

[Kevin Rodenhofer]

Send us a link...

Kevin Rodenhofer wrote:

Overlay a smaller image, and do the swap with it.

Micha? Zielin'ski wrote:

Hi

I`ve got image button. It`s quite big and colorfull. I`d like to 
create a hover effect which changes only small detail on this big 
image (button). The small circle should change color  from white  to 
red.
I don`t want to replace all the image because it would be to heavy to 
load. Using sprite  method for whole image is also quite heavy.
Could you give me a hint how to do it? (hover effect on image which 
changes only a tiny part of the image)


Regards
Mike


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Re: [css-d] button hover

[Kevin Rodenhofer]

Overlay a smaller image, and do the swap with it.

Micha? Zielin'ski wrote:

Hi

I`ve got image button. It`s quite big and colorfull. I`d like to 
create a hover effect which changes only small detail on this big 
image (button). The small circle should change color  from white  to red.
I don`t want to replace all the image because it would be to heavy to 
load. Using sprite  method for whole image is also quite heavy.
Could you give me a hint how to do it? (hover effect on image which 
changes only a tiny part of the image)


Regards
Mike


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[css-d] button hover

[Michał Zieliński]

Hi

I`ve got image button. It`s quite big and colorfull. I`d like to create 
a hover effect which changes only small detail on this big image 
(button). The small circle should change color  from white  to red.
I don`t want to replace all the image because it would be to heavy to 
load. Using sprite  method for whole image is also quite heavy.
Could you give me a hint how to do it? (hover effect on image which 
changes only a tiny part of the image)


Regards
Mike
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[css-d] ADMIN: Mail Server Moved

[Dean Mah]

Hello all,

evolt.org is moving servers.  You may have noticed some e-mail showing
up slowly.  This was due to Gmail and Yahoo thinking that we were
spammers.  Hopefully, this has been resolved.  E-mail should now
appear to come from 67.19.208.10 or 67.19.208.11.  If you notice a
persistent problem, please let me know.

Dean
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Re: [css-d] Scrollbar styles (etc.) & validation

[bruce . somers]

> 
> 
> -- 
> http://www.gunlaug.no


condiional comments are claptrap of the top order.


CSS is an interesting concept, but the implementation remains a bad joke!

Bruce


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Re: [css-d] Global Attributes?

[Keith DiSarno]

I don't think that makes much sense.

With the asterisk like that, you want the margin, text-decoration, padding,
color, float, display...all blue? Blue is not a valid value for all but 1 of
the preceeding.


Thoroughly Confused...
Keith D.


On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 1:05 PM, johny why  wrote:

> who knows a way to do a 'global attribute'. for example:
>
> a {
>*: blue;
> }
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Re: [css-d] The CSS Overlords

[Christie Mason]

I nominate this posting for the least useful posting award.

Christie Mason

-Original Message-
From: css-d-boun...@lists.css-discuss.org
[mailto:css-d-boun...@lists.css-discuss.org]on Behalf Of Carla Bruni
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 12:13 PM
To: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
Subject: [css-d] The CSS Overlords



 
Keeping in mind obviouce fact that not only web developers are a part of
that list:
Experience shows, those who don't like CSS are hoping that their 
secretaries will be able to keep websites updated.
Table are WYSIWYG. In CSS you see nothing, you need to go through the
code, and it might get frustrating  if you know only Word with Excell.

If you want to use you cellphone from mid 90 and use tables,<- it's your
personal choice. 



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Re: [css-d] IE issue with positioning

[David Laakso]

Jeff Chastain wrote:

I am having some issues with IE getting a layout design to work and I would
like to see if anybody can offer any pointers before this drives me nuts.
The issue I am running into is that I have a box which has a fluid width
(90% of the page).  Within that box, I am attempting to absolutely place
another box at the very top, but with a 14px margin on both the left and
right side.  The following CSS rules work just fine in FireFox 

-- Jeff

  




No absolute positioning is needed, and is best avoided in positioning 
the base foundation structure of a page. Absolute positioning, if needed 
at all, is usually reserved for positioning small elements within a 
foundation, or float based, structure. So maybe just make like a big 
box, and sort of gently place smaller boxes in it. Something like this 
[1] will work in compliant browsers and even IE/6 and IE/7.


[1] 


--

A thin red line and a salmon-color ampersand forthcoming.
http://chelseacreekstudio.com/

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Re: [css-d] IE issue with positioning

[Bill Brown]

Jeff Chastain wrote:

The issue I am running into is that I have a box which has a fluid width
(90% of the page).  Within that box, I am attempting to absolutely place
another box at the very top, but with a 14px margin on both the left and
right side.  The following CSS rules work just fine in FireFox 
   #container {
  position: relative;
  margin: 0 auto;
  width: 80%;
   #header {
  position: absolute;
  top: 0;
  left: 14px;
  right: 14px;
   }
In IE however, the header box is positioned right, but it does not expand
the full width of its container.  Instead it has an extra wide margin on the
right side.  I think this could probably be fixed with a box model hack, but
I cannot figure out the right combination of rules to make IE behave.


Absolute positioning causes browsers to shrink-wrap the box, meaning 
that a block-level box which once spanned the width of its parent is now 
only as wide as its content. You work around this in FF and other 
compliant browsers with your left/right settings. IE only honors one or 
the other, though I think IE7 now allows you to set both.


Setting both the left and the right property causes the left of the box 
to be absolutely positioned at value 'n' of the left property, and the 
right of the box to appear at value 'n' of the right property. This 
changes the default shrink wrapping for most browsers, making it more 
block-like.


For IE, you have a few choices. Without a URL for reference, my guess is 
that you might simply try removing the absolute positioning. If that's 
not an option, you might also try setting the padding of #container to 
something like "padding:0 14px" which would technically make your 
#container box 28px wider than 80% of its parent.


HTH,
Bill

--

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Re: [css-d] Global Rules?

[Bill Brown]

johny why wrote:
can i do something like this?: a.myclass !important { color:blue; 
width:5em; }


Nope

thanks 


You're welcome. ;-)
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[css-d] Subject: Drop Caps

[Jen Strickland]

Check out the book: Web Standards Creativity from Friends of Ed.  Rob  
Weychert has a little discussion/how-to on drop caps that will provide  
the most thorough explanation.

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Re: [css-d] Drop Caps

[Holly Bergevin]

From: Ron Koster 

>http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=DropCaps
>
>...is the following recommended way to do up dropcaps...

Ron,

As with most things CSS, you'll need to test the effect you want in the 
environment it's going to be placed. Oh, and in a variety of browsers as well 
to see if the results are acceptable to you.

The wiki page you have cited was written before 2004 and apparently has not 
been edited since. In my opinion, it is doubtful that the author would suggest 
padding in ex units at this time, but I don't know. Douglas Livingstone was a 
contributer to this list, but I haven't seen him post for some time, so you 
might try emailing him and ask him the question directly. 
douglas-ts...@redmelon.net (I have no idea if that will work or not, it's from 
his oldish test site index page.)

You can search the archives of css-d from the following link to find more 
discussions (including the current one) on drop caps.

http://archivist.incutio.com/viewlist/css-discuss/

Another page that may give you an example is - 

http://www.gunlaug.no/contents/wd_additions_04.html 
 
The selector for the drop caps on that page - 

html body div #content div div.icon p:first-letter {
float: left;
color: #579;
background: transparent;
padding: 0 .1em 0 0;
font-size: 3.2em;
line-height: 0.7em; 
margin: .02em -.06em -.2em;
}

We all have to test for the look we desire, and settle on what works best for 
the given situation. I don't think anyone will say you *must* use a certain 
amount of padding for every situation, even the author of the wiki page you 
cited. The nature of web pages and browsers is not static like print, and there 
are a variety of variables that can come into play on any given page. If you 
don't like the look of the padding, take it out, or adjust it until you do like 
it. That's one of the beautiful parts of CSS

As an aside, the wiki has been written over the years, by a number of different 
people who posted for a time on css-d and may or may not still be around 
answering questions or even lurking. There is no one specifically "assigned" to 
maintain it with the most up-to-date methods, so you may indeed find something 
that is out-of-date to current best practices. Feel free to edit a page 
yourself if that is the case, adding what worked for you. 

The wiki is, or should be, dynamic, not static, and is not meant to be 
unchanging. CSS itself changes, as does support for any given level of CSS. 
"Best practice" is all well and good, until it doesn't work in a given 
situation. In my opinion, all CSS examples, whether in the wiki or in the 
"wild" on the net are open to experimentation, and indeed problably should be 
experimented with so that the user/developer understands what various 
adjustments can and will do.

Good luck, Ron, and keep experimenting.

~holly  
 
   
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[css-d] The CSS Overlords

[Carla Bruni]

 
Keeping in mind obviouce fact that not only web developers are a part of that 
list:
Experience shows, those who don't like CSS are hoping that their  secretaries 
will be able to keep websites updated.
Table are WYSIWYG. In CSS you see nothing, you need to go through the code, and 
it might get frustrating  if you know only Word with Excell.

If you want to use you cellphone from mid 90 and use tables,<- it's your 
personal choice. 


  
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[css-d] Global Attributes?

[johny why]

who knows a way to do a 'global attribute'. for example:

a {
*: blue;
}
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Re: [css-d] IE issue with positioning

[Amedeo Mantica]

try the following:


  #header {

 position: absolute;

 top: 0;

 margin-left: 14px;

 margin-right: 14px;

  }


are sure that  u need absolute positioning??

regards
Amedeo

On 19/gen/09, at 17:49, Jeff Chastain wrote:

I am having some issues with IE getting a layout design to work and  
I would
like to see if anybody can offer any pointers before this drives me  
nuts.
The issue I am running into is that I have a box which has a fluid  
width
(90% of the page).  Within that box, I am attempting to absolutely  
place
another box at the very top, but with a 14px margin on both the left  
and

right side.  The following CSS rules work just fine in FireFox 



  #container {

 position: relative;

 margin: 0 auto;

 width: 80%;



  #header {

 position: absolute;

 top: 0;

 left: 14px;

 right: 14px;

  }



In IE however, the header box is positioned right, but it does not  
expand
the full width of its container.  Instead it has an extra wide  
margin on the
right side.  I think this could probably be fixed with a box model  
hack, but

I cannot figure out the right combination of rules to make IE behave.



Any ideas would be appreciated.



Thanks

-- Jeff

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[css-d] IE issue with positioning

[Jeff Chastain]

I am having some issues with IE getting a layout design to work and I would
like to see if anybody can offer any pointers before this drives me nuts.
The issue I am running into is that I have a box which has a fluid width
(90% of the page).  Within that box, I am attempting to absolutely place
another box at the very top, but with a 14px margin on both the left and
right side.  The following CSS rules work just fine in FireFox 

 

   #container {

  position: relative;

  margin: 0 auto;

  width: 80%;

 

   #header {

  position: absolute;

  top: 0;

  left: 14px;

  right: 14px;

   }

 

In IE however, the header box is positioned right, but it does not expand
the full width of its container.  Instead it has an extra wide margin on the
right side.  I think this could probably be fixed with a box model hack, but
I cannot figure out the right combination of rules to make IE behave.

 

Any ideas would be appreciated.

 

Thanks

-- Jeff

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Re: [css-d] Pragmatic look at our CSS future - ripped from: The CSS Overlords

[Erika Meyer]

Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:
> 
> There's a lot of freedom in CSS based design if one has a deep enough
> understanding to release it, but the mental, and to some degree the
> practical, barriers seem to be high. I would like to get a better
> understanding of these barriers, in order to find more ways around them.
> 

I think that one issue is that there still tends to be a big real-world 
divide between designers and developers.  Very few people "design" in 
CSS, and from what I've seen, there is little financial incentive to do so.

Instead, the web dev model is still (as far as I can tell) wireframe -> 
photoshop -> CSS .  Web design is still a relatively new field, and a 
lot of designers (and perhaps more importantly, employers) are still 
thinking in print. The ongoing desire to have a site look and behave the 
same in all browsers is evidence of that. (Even the concept of a web 
"page," though that seems to be fading.) And then there is people's 
tendency to follow well-worn paths...

The way toward change in web design trends is always by setting 
examples, especially high-profile examples.

Erika

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Re: [css-d] Global Rules?

[Vladislav Vladimirov]

> does anyone know how to apply !important globally to all properties of an 
> element? the standard usage is:
> a.myclass {
>color:blue !important;
>width:5em  !important;
> }
>

You can just be more specific in defining the selector, like this:

html body a.myclass {
...
}

Regards,
Vladislav Vladimirov
http://www.ovalpixels.com/
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Re: [css-d] Drop Caps

[Ron Koster]

At 08:43 PM 1/18/2009 -0500, Bill Brown wrote:
>I'm just leading horses to the Kool-Aid...I can't make 'em drink it.

Okay, apparently I didn't explain my questions well enough, it would seem.

Once again, on this page...

http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=DropCaps

...is the following recommended way to do up dropcaps...

p:first-letter {
 font: 2.5em/80% serif;
 float: left;
 padding: 0.2ex 0 0 0.2ex;
 margin: 0;
 overflow: visible;
}

Now, like I said, I'm not sure if there's a specific reason for that 
padding. If I'm confused about that, it's only because so often I've 
seen replies (to other problems) go by on this list, where the 
solution has been "Oh, you just have to add some padding, otherwise 
it won't display correctly in such-and-such a browser" (or whatever 
similar response. I find it strange that the above recommendation has 
that padding added, in fact, because to me -- being the nit-picky 
typographer that I am -- it looks a bit weird, it pushes the dropcap 
just a teensy little bit over. I could see indenting a first line 
(for aesthetic reasons), say, 14px or somoething, but to just push it 
over a mere 0.2ex makes it look more like an error than anything intentional.

So is that padding there for a reason? If not, then can that whole 
line (for the padding) just simply be deleted? On the other hand, if 
so, then does it have to be 0.2ex, or can it not be changed to indent 
the first line even more -- or, indeed, even have negative indenting 
and have the dropcap hanging outside the paragraph, in the margin? 
That could be cool, too, actually.

Similarly, the recommendation of...

 font: 2.5em/80% serif;

...is given, but I don't know if for some reason those values are the 
"magic number", arrived at through years of testing and stuff. See, 
that web page basically says "here's how to do it", but then doesn't 
say "but you can change the values to whatever you want" -- let alone 
does it explain what the reasons were for coming up with those values 
in the first place (or, for example, why padding is part of the 
recommendation).

As usual, pardon my ignorance, but I can only assume that someone 
here made that page, so surely someone here knows?

Thanks again, in advance!

Ron :)

Woof?... http://www.Psymon.com
Ach, du Leni!... http://www.Riefenstahl.org
Hmm... http://www.Imaginary-Friend.ca

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[css-d] Global Rules?

[johny why]

hi

does anyone know how to apply !important globally to all properties of an 
element? the standard usage is:
a.myclass {
color:blue !important;
width:5em  !important;
}

can i do something like this?:
a.myclass !important {
color:blue;
width:5em;
}

thanks
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Re: [css-d] Adding margins to the element

[Bobby Jack]

--- On Mon, 1/19/09, Brett  wrote:

> The curious thing is that I get a 20px bottom margin as expected,
> but I do not get a 20px top margin, why not?

Works for me (FF3). You might be experiencing margin-collapsing, or some other 
side-effect of some other style, depending on what else is going on - do you 
have a URL for us?

- Bobby


  
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[css-d] Adding margins to the element

[Brett]

I have created the following hr class specifying margins.  The curious 
thing is that I get a 20px bottom margin as expected, but I do not get a 
20px top margin, why not?  Also, the hr center itself in all browsers 
except IE6 (afaik).  How can I get IE6 to center it?

hr.divider {
position:relative;
width:80%;
background-color:#bbb;
margin:20px auto;
}


TIA
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Re: [css-d] Scrollbar styles (etc.) & validation

[Ron Koster]

At 01:16 PM 1/19/2009 +, Bobby Jack wrote:
>Which validator are you using? It does sound like a flawed warning - 
>the validator should be intelligent enough to determine that a 
>background image/color will show through (and, thus, 'protect' the 
>color), at least in the trivial case.

Actually, yes and no. Someone was kind enough to send me this URL 
off-list yesterday...

http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200610/css_validator_colour_warnings_are_not_errors/

...which explains what the problem (and the lack of problem) is.

Ron :)

Woof?... http://www.Psymon.com
Ach, du Leni!... http://www.Riefenstahl.org
Hmm... http://www.Imaginary-Friend.ca

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Re: [css-d] Scrollbar styles (etc.) & validation

[Rick den Haan]

Ron Koster wrote:
> "You have no background-color set (or background-color is set to 
> transparent) but you have set a color. Make sure that cascading of 
> colors keeps the text reasonably legible."
> 
> How on earth is that a "warning"? If I set a background color for my 
> links or whatever else, well, then there goes my background graphic 
> out the window.

The validator does not know where things are.

This is a message to warn you to pay attention yourself to the coloring of
your page. Let's say you have a DIV with a yellow background, and inside
that you have another div with a transparent background and yellow text.
That text will then be invisible (or illegible, if it's a slightly different
yellow). If, however, that outer div has a dark blue background, it might be
perfectly valid to have yellow text on a transparent background.

If it's a simple matter of text,
with no other rules like negative margins or absolute positioning, then in a
perfect world the validator should know that the yellow text will be on a
blue background, and not warn you. However, once you start moving things
around or using background images, the validator would have to include a
rendering engine to determine whether your yellow text might shift
(partially) out of that blue box and onto something else's background, which
might also be yellow, or whether that particular part of the background
image underneath your yellow text happens to be yellow as well.

Obviously, that's not what a CSS validator is for. It's there to allow you
to check whether you have written valid CSS. Hence the warning (and not an
error) to notify you that you need to check for yourself whether the given
text color is visible on the background it has.

If you *do* set a background and foreground color in the same style
definition block, the validator can warn you if the colors are too close for
comfort, but I consider this to fall under accessibility validation, and not
CSS validation.

Hope that explanation made sense :)

Regards,
Rick.

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Re: [css-d] Scrollbar styles (etc.) & validatio

[David Dorward]

2009/1/19 Bobby Jack :
> Which validator are you using? It does sound like a flawed warning -
> the validator should be intelligent enough to determine that a background
> image/color will show through (and, thus, 'protect' the color),

In every HTML or XML document the stylesheet could be applied to?
For every window / font size? (Since overlapping can vary depending on
these factors)
When other stylesheets (including user stylesheets) are applied?

> at least in the trivial case.

There's no way to know if the trivial case will be the real case

-- 
David Dorward 
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Re: [css-d] Scrollbar styles (etc.) & validation

[Bobby Jack]

> Also, for a variety of different things (like link colors,
> etc.) I 
> get a bunch of these warnings (not errors)...
> 
> "You have no background-color set (or background-color
> is set to 
> transparent) but you have set a color. Make sure that
> cascading of 
> colors keeps the text reasonably legible."

Hi Ron,

Which validator are you using? It does sound like a flawed warning - the 
validator should be intelligent enough to determine that a background 
image/color will show through (and, thus, 'protect' the color), at least in the 
trivial case.

Would be nice to have a URL too.

Cheers,

- Bobby



  
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Re: [css-d] Pragmatic look at our CSS future - ripped from: The CSS Overlords

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Gabriele Romanato wrote:
> Browser's support is still improving. My opinion is: if we are using 
> CSS for professional purposes, we should take into account also 
> obsolete versions. otherwise, we should drop our support to these 
> browsers.

I have problems understanding practicality here.

How does one "drop support"?

- by ignoring the existence of an old browser?
The result may be really disgraceful, inaccessible, useless in a
browser, but if the designer/coder never checks only visitors
unfortunate enough to be using that browser will ever know.

- by serving it no styles?
In practical terms that may not always be so easy, and some of the
methods used to prevent a browser from loading/using styles may backfire
and affect present and future browsers.

On the other hand, if one chooses to take obsolete versions into account
and provide a degree of support, where - at which versions, and how,
does one draw the lines?

I think I have found most answers to the above as it relates to my own
work, but it would be interesting to see how others choose or have to
deal with obsolete browsers.

> see http://transcendingcss.com

 From that page:
"Few visual designers are natural programmers, and as a result,
visualizing how to work with markup, CSS and a range of programmatic
techniques to create beautiful design is difficult."

Well, I am an "art-educated natural programmer" (for lack of a better
description), spending time studying the available programmatic
techniques so I can sort them out and use what I need when and where I
need it. Not very complicated but time-consuming nevertheless, and I
seem to find more what I would call obsolete and/or unnecessary limiting
techniques and other short-cuts than I find hopelessly obsolete browsers
- excluding the _very_ obsolete IE4/NN4 generations from the equation.

In too many cases the browsers and their varying degree of standards
support seem *not* to be the limiting factor - the designers' urge for
control over his/hers own art is. How does one deal with that?

Maybe that's what Ingo touched onto by writing...
> However, the day the CSS-framework-guys win and produce something 
> endlessly boring that does not require an understanding of CSS 
> anymore approaches, so maybe it's time to move on.
...in the post I used to start this thread. Guess both Ingo and I might
end up becoming too bored with frameworks and other short-cuts, same as
with layout tables ;-)

Now, if only designers, developers, coders, whatever would apply their
art in ways that lifted and promoted the content instead of competing
with it, then "the fine art of web design" might actually be going
somewhere regardless of which programmatic techniques, frameworks and
other short-cuts was used, and we might see some progress.

There's a lot of freedom in CSS based design if one has a deep enough
understanding to release it, but the mental, and to some degree the
practical, barriers seem to be high. I would like to get a better
understanding of these barriers, in order to find more ways around them.

regards
Georg
-- 
http://www.gunlaug.no
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Re: [css-d] The CSS Overlords

[Mustafa Quilon]

The best way to learn the benefits of using CSS is by *doing* it.

I started with tables too but never loved them @-...@. CSS was like _love
at first sight_. Only the convincing(learning) part took some time,
but it was worth it.


- Mustafa Quilon
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