Re: [css-d] Firefox bug on on new Macs?

[David Laakso]

Michael Leibson wrote:
>  
>
> The site is  www.thinkingmusic.ca .  
> Michael
>
>   


Interesting visual. It would be nice to pull it off. No AP needed. Set 
no height on containers carrying movable text. Set the black-like color 
as a background image. Fast and dirty quick start. Bells and whistles on 
you. Cursory checked IE 6/7. Mac FF, Safari, Camino. And Mac Opera at 
min-font size 32px. Good luck.

~d
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Re: [css-d] page-break-inside:avoid; not working

[Michael Adams]

On Fri, 10 Apr 2009 16:43:27 -0400
Came this utterance formulated by Yvan Daneault to my mailbox:

> I am a web-design teacher who's in the process of putting his
> documentation online, but I also want my students to occasionnally
> print the pages. The situation is as follows:
> 
> I do not want paragraphs to be broken by a page break.
> 
> I have include the following rule in my stylesheet:
> p {page-break-inside:avoid;}
> but it does not seem to work in most browsers, except Opera. I love
> Opera but my students are not using it. Most of my base is on Safari
> 3.0 Mac which claims that Safari has been supporting page-break-inside
> since version 1.3.

Opera is the only one with this support AFAIK:
http://reference.sitepoint.com/css/page-break-inside#compatibilitysection

If you are teaching web design you should be telling students to look at
their work in as many different browsers as possible. You can then
advise them that Opera has the best support for printing. To me it
doesn't matter as i normally copy and paste to a word processor before
printing anyway, even on print ready sites, to avoid two lines on a page
if i can.

-- 
Michael

All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall
be well

 - Julian of Norwich 1342 - 1416
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Re: [css-d] Firefox bug on on new Macs?

[Philippe Wittenbergh]

On Apr 11, 2009, at 5:46 AM, Michael Leibson wrote:

> Thanks, Phillipe!
s/Phillipe/Philippe

>> Here is how it looks like, when I force the window to the width of  
>> the
> monitor -windoze users call that full screen or something:
>> 
>> I zoomed the text, note how the selected part overflows the sand  
>> background (and is then unreadable).
>
> Wow, pretty gruesome!  However, I intentionally made the font size  
> super-big, in the hope that everyone who can read will be able to do  
> so without text-zooming.  Should I worry?

Obviously yes, as the text becomes unreadable. 'font size super-big'  
is very relative. For my eyes, the body text is about just right, but  
certainly _not_ big, let alone super-big; for others it might be small.

> One more question, if I may:  I see that, on your computer, my  
> 'contact' link (top right of page) actually displays as an email  
> 'envelope' symbol.  Is that your computer/browser's default display  
> for any  code -- or is my html incorrect?  (On  
> my FF 3.0.4, on Windows XP, I simply see what I'd intended --  
> "contact", with no symbol.)

That is me, my user stylesheet actually, who injects that.
a[href^="mailto:"]::after {content: url("moz-icon://.EML?size=16")}

Philippe
---
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http://l-c-n.com/





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Re: [css-d] Firefox bug on on new Macs?

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Michael Leibson wrote:

> [...] Related questions:   why, if using an  without an ordered 
> or unordered list is not allowed, does it work on my site?   What are
>  the negative consequences of using it that way?

1: you're relying on browsers' error correction, which may or may not
give the same results across browser-land. There's no standard for error
correction, so even if something works in most browsers you can't
complain if it breaks anywhere.

2: non-standard constructions are more problematic to style and debug,
since the standardized relationships don't exist.

3: you're learning a bad habit, and such habits are often hard to
unlearn once they get stuck.

If/when such "bad habits and designer bugs" becomes frequent for your
work, and you need help to fix something, even if it is or seems to be
unrelated you may be met with the following response...

...and not much else.

We expect people who ask for help to at least have done their homework -
the best they can, and won't waste time on going through all the
unnecessary and "self-inflicted" weaknesses that _may_ cause problems
but _maybe_ do not. That's your department, and you've got standards and
validators to help you.

> But while I understand how my background's width causes the 
> horizontal scrollbar, how does the "left: 50%;" affect either the 
> scrollbar or my friend's 'zooming' of all elements?

Have no idea about your friend's zooming effect since I can't see or
analyze his browser/OS. Also: I still don't know what or how wide a
"zillion-pixel-wide" screen is, so I can't emulate it.

> Aside from using a fluid design, is there any way I could have it 
> both ways?

Sure. You can use a fixed sized background on a fluid container.
Fixed-width design doesn't mean all containers have to be fixed-width,
only that it appears that way.

Your design will fit in a 1024px wide browser window at default settings
with a non-fixed container for the background - without causing a
horizontal scrollbar, and still hold a wider background for wider windows.

>> 
> . . . For some reason, I keep getting a "not found" error message 
> when trying to go to that URL.

The URL is working, so can't help you there.

Anyway, just add...
p, li {border: solid 1px red!important;}
...to your stylesheet, to see how wide those elements are - or use one
of the available designer tools to the same effect.

>> FWIW: it looks like you're attempting to recreate print design on 
>> the web, and that rarely ever works well.
> I know.  The problem, though, was that I needed to get the site up 
> immediately -- it's the second site I've ever done, and I'm very slow
>  at this kind of thing.

Nothing special about that - a lot to learn. Just don't put design
before structure, as "nice designs" on weak structures are less than a
dime a dozen on the web already - and they're causing more problems than
all browser bugs put together.

regards
Georg
-- 
http://www.gunlaug.no
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Re: [css-d] Firefox bug on on new Macs?

[Felix Miata]

On 2009/04/10 13:46 (GMT-0700) Michael Leibson composed:

> http://www.thinkingmusic.ca/

> I intentionally made the font size super-big, in the hope that everyone
> who can read will be able to do so without text-zooming.  Should I worry?

Worrying doesn't accomplish anything. Instead, learn the difference between
size and size. ;-)

"Size" in px in CSS bears no particular relationship to physical size. 24px
may be huge to you looking at your display, but change eyes or display or
other environmental conditions and those px can be quite different in
physical size.

Here, 24px is my default, and nothing like "super-big", as it's exactly
comfortable reading size. Therefore, your 'a#displayproblems {...font-size:
15px..}' results in barely legible text, smaller than my desktop UI text, and
vastly smaller than a comfortable web page reading size.

If you want "super-big" text, you'll need to set a size something like
'font-size: 300%', which will cause the output to be triple the size of the
browser's default, whatever that may happen to be.
-- 
"He who works his land will have abundant food, but the
one who chases fantasies will have his fill of poverty."
Proverbs 28:19 NIV

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/
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[css-d] page-break-inside:avoid; not working

[Yvan Daneault]

I am a web-design teacher who's in the process of putting his documentation
online, but I also want my students to occasionnally print the pages.
The situation is as follows:

I do not want paragraphs to be broken by a page break.

I have include the following rule in my stylesheet:
p {page-break-inside:avoid;}
but it does not seem to work in most browsers, except Opera. I love Opera
but my students are not using it. Most of my base is on Safari 3.0 Mac which
claims that Safari has been supporting page-break-inside since version 1.3.
Well it does not work for me. You can see the spec at this url:
http://developer.apple.com/documentation/appleapplications/Reference/SafariCSSRef/Articles/StandardCSSProperties.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP30001266-PagedMedia

You could see one of my problematic pages at the following url:
http://icgq.net/prof01/fl/bandeaux/01-notions-base/instructions.html

Look at the third paragraph in Section [4]. It breaks before the inline
image.

Thanks

Yvan
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Re: [css-d] Firefox bug on on new Macs?

[Michael Leibson]

Thanks, Phillipe!

>Here is how it looks like, when I force the window to the width of the
monitor -windoze users call that full screen or something:
>
>I zoomed the text, note how the selected part overflows the sand background 
>(and is then unreadable).

Wow, pretty gruesome!  However, I intentionally made the font size super-big, 
in the hope that everyone who can read will be able to do so without 
text-zooming.  Should I worry?



>At my normal window width, no text zoom. Note the heavy horizontal scrollbar.
Yes -- apart from the horizontal scrollbar, it looks as I intended it.  
Re. the scrollbar:  I'd originally designed for 1024 x 768, but found the 
design looked quite weak without the #background div, when viewed in anything 
wider (I'm assuming it's that very wide div that's doing it).  I don't suppose 
there's any way to have my cake and eat it too, is there (short of creating a 
fluid design, which is way beyond my current skill-level and available time)?


>Safari 3.2 and 4b displays exactly the same.
>On a another Mac with a 24"inch monitor, it behaves all the same.
>On Ubuntu Linux, same thing.
Thanks!  That's very good to know.


>I like the colours, btw.
Thank-you!  

One more question, if I may:  I see that, on your computer, my 'contact' link 
(top right of page) actually displays as an email 'envelope' symbol.  Is that 
your computer/browser's default display for any  code -- or 
is my html incorrect?  (On my FF 3.0.4, on Windows XP, I simply see what I'd 
intended -- "contact", with no symbol.)







From: Philippe Wittenbergh 
To: CSS-D 
Cc: Michael Leibson 
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 8:19:08 AM
Subject: Re: [css-d] Firefox bug on on new Macs?


On Apr 10, 2009, at 8:43 PM, Michael Leibson wrote:

> I used Firefox to view my website on a friend's zillion-pixel-wide new Mac, 
> yesterday, and I was astonished to find that all elements on all pages had a 
> significantly increased width, so that the design was effectively spread, 
> horizontally, to fit the (maximized) window.  This would have pleased me, 
> were my design fluid -- but it isn't:  it's fixed!
> 
> The site is  www.thinkingmusic.ca .  The home page's main div (a sandy
> grey colour) should be 790px wide, and the slate-blue navigation div,
> immediately to its left, should be 244px wide (including border).

Dunno. Here is how it looks like, when I force the window to the width of the 
monitor -windoze users call that full screen or something:

I zoomed the text, note how the selected part overflows the sand background 
(and is then unreadable).

At my normal window width, no text zoom. Note the heavy horizontal scrollbar.

Safari 3.2 and 4b displays exactly the same.
On a another Mac with a 24"inch monitor, it behaves all the same.

On Ubuntu Linux, same thing.

I like the colours, btw.


Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh
http://l-c-n.com/


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Re: [css-d] Intermittent IE 7 problem

[David Laakso]

Rebecca Mazur wrote:
> If anyone's interested in trying to see if they can break the pages again, 
> I'd 
> love to have you try :)  Some of the places I previously spotted it happening 
> are below:
>   

All checked in IE/6.0 (only) on a cleared cache.

> http://www.kenyon.edu/x12366.xml
>   
Footer broken.
Reload fixed it.
Related links float right.



> http://www.kenyon.edu/x7904.xml
>   

Dept of English a little tight to English Majors.
Reload opened it.



> http://www.kenyon.edu/x14305.xml
>   

Footer a little tight to top. Same for both columns in right column.
Reload opened them.




> http://www.kenyon.edu/x34363.xml
>   
Women's and Gender Studies kissing Student Projects
Reload opened it.

Personally, I'd let all of them go as is. They are all relatively usable 
and functional in most cases as is; and, after all, it's 2009-- time to 
move on, not look back...



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Re: [css-d] Firefox bug on on new Macs?

[Michael Leibson]

Hi, Georg, and thanks for this detailed reply!

> your page is full of markup errors...
Thanks for bringing these to my attention -- I'll look into all of them when 
some time becomes available.  
Related questions:   why, if using an  without an ordered or unordered list 
is not allowed, does it work on my site?   What are the negative consequences 
of using it that way?

>background is positioned 50% from the left side - regardless of window size.
Yes -- I used the 'negative margins' technique to (sort of) center the whole 
thing ('sort of', because I didn't want it symmetrically centered). But while I 
understand how my background's width causes the horizontal scrollbar, how does 
the "left: 50%;" affect either the scrollbar or my friend's 'zooming' of all 
elements?

>what Fx version did you test in and what settings were at play?
FF 3.0.8, on a Mac OSX 10.5.6.  I'm pretty sure the whole thing was 'zoomed', 
but my friend says that she has to negatively zoom in order to obtain my page's 
intended size!  All I can imagine is that my friend has some kind of 'automatic 
zoom' set up -- either on her computer, or in FF -- but, so far, I haven't been 
able to discover such a feature, in any of the online literature.  I'm baffled!



>Individual elements hold their declared width, but the page as such needs 
>1650px wide windows to get rid of the horizontal scrollbar
Yes, I'm assuming that's because of the wide #background div I've used.  As I 
wrote to Phillipe, I added that div because I felt the design looked pretty 
weak without it, when viewed on wider screens/windows.  Aside from using a 
fluid design, is there any way I could have it both ways?



>The declared dimensions on paragraphs and parent-less list-items are creating 
>problems...
This sounds serious, but:
>
. . . For some reason, I keep getting a "not found" error message when trying 
to go to that URL.  



>...and extra horizontal width all browsers have to cope with. Why not let 
>those elements auto-adjust to their containers?
Ah -- as in the following? :
>FWIW: it looks like you're attempting to recreate print design on the web, and 
>that rarely ever works well.
I know.  The problem, though, was that I needed to get the site up immediately 
-- it's the second site I've ever done, and I'm very slow at this kind of 
thing.  With all its flaws, my only previous experience was  with a print-style 
design.I keep telling myself that I'll try to learn these things for my 
next site, but, given that I'm still in the dark with a lot of what I've 
already learned, even that may turn out to be too ambitious.  

Thanks for your help, Georg!
All the best,
Michael






From: Gunlaug Sørtun 
To: Michael Leibson 
Cc: Eric Meyer's CSS List 
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 9:01:10 AM
Subject: Re: [css-d] Firefox bug on on new Macs?

Michael Leibson wrote:

> I used Firefox to view my website on a friend's zillion-pixel-wide new Mac, 
> yesterday, and I was astonished to find that all elements on
>  all pages had a significantly increased width, so that the design was 
> effectively spread, horizontally, to fit the (maximized) window.

Don't know how wide the screen on a zillion-pixel-wide new Mac is, but
my trusty old win machine provides me with a 3800 px wide screen for
browsers if/when I need it.
I need nearly half of that screen-area for your page, in any browser,
just to get rid of the horizontal scrollbar. That's before adding
page-zoom to the equation.

> This would have pleased me, were my design fluid -- but it isn't: it's fixed!

1: your page is full of markup errors...

...and some of those are serious.

2: background is positioned 50% from the left side - regardless of
window size.

3: what Fx version did you test in and what settings were at play?

> www.thinkingmusic.ca .

Individual elements hold their declared width, but the page as such
needs 1650px wide windows to get rid of the horizontal scrollbar.

The declared dimensions on paragraphs and parent-less list-items are
creating problems...



...and extra horizontal width all browsers have to cope with.
Why not let those elements auto-adjust to their containers?

FWIW: it looks like you're attempting to recreate print design on the
web, and that rarely ever works well.

regards
Georg
-- http://www.gunlaug.no



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Re: [css-d] Firefox bug on on new Macs?

[Michael Leibson]

Far from being a waste of time, I think your answer zoomed in (excuse the pun) 
on the key thing, Theophan, so thank-you!   I hadn't even thought of a 'zoom' 
feature on my friend's machine.

However, I've subsequently had my friend check her Firefox 3.0.8 zoom, and she 
said:


"I reset to 0 and the website fills my entire screen.  If I zoom out it 
gradually decreases until I guess you get to the page size you intended.
So it seems it is automatically set to maximum magnification."


No amount of googling "Firefox Zoom default" brought any description of any way 
of automatically setting FF to always zoom, so I'm wondered if it could be her 
computer -- a Mac OS X 10.5.6 with Leopard.  However, although I found info on 
a zoom feature for that computer, it didn't mention any feature that would 
automatically zoom everything, all the time.  

Any idea what could be doing this?

Many thanks!

Michael






From: Theophan Dort 
To: Michael Leibson 
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 8:59:52 AM
Subject: Re: [css-d] Firefox bug on on new Macs?

I'm not an expert, just a volunteer webmaster for a couple of churches, so this 
is probably a waste of your time, but just in case:  Firefox's default zoom now 
essentially magnifies the entire page, just as you seem to be describing.  Is 
it possible that somehow when you viewed that page his browser was set to a 
zoom setting other than default, or that his default for some reason is larger 
than normal?  Was it only your site?  Did it change if you hit Command-Zero?

Theophan




On Apr 10, 2009, at 7:43 AM, Michael Leibson wrote:

> Hi;
> 
> I used Firefox to view my website on a friend's zillion-pixel-wide new Mac, 
> yesterday, and I was astonished to find that all elements on all pages had a 
> significantly increased width, so that the design was effectively spread, 
> horizontally, to fit the (maximized) window.  This would have pleased me, 
> were my design fluid -- but it isn't:  it's fixed!
> 
> The site is  www.thinkingmusic.ca .  The home page's main div (a sandy
> grey colour) should be 790px wide, and the slate-blue navigation div,
> immediately to its left, should be 244px wide (including border).
> 
> Anyone have any idea what might be going on? I've always thought that Firefox 
> uniformly reproduces css-based designs, regardless of operating platform. . .
> 
> Thanks, in advance, for any clues you'd care to share!
> 
> Michael
> 
> 
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Re: [css-d] Firefox bug on on new Macs?

[Michael Leibson]

Hi, David;


>It is in part due to the width of 1426px set on #background and the
issue you have is not limited to FF-- it happens in all browsers.
Structuring a layout >with absolute positioning seldom works. 

Care to amplify (no pun intended) that?  All I can so far determine is that my 
friend has some kind of automatic zoom setting on her computer or browser, that 
equally magnified all elements by approximately 25%.  Without that 'zoom', the 
only other place where I've encountered problems has been on IE -- FF seems to 
display properly on all systems.

>Try your
page at minimum font-size 24px in FF.
Wow, really?!  I thought my current font size --  the 
www.thinkingmusic.ca/thinkingharmony page is more typical of my site -- was 
already pretty huge!

>Validate the markup.
Thanks!  I also received details on that from Georg, and I'll look into fixing 
it as soon as I have some free time.

All the best,
Michael



From: David Laakso 
To: Michael Leibson 
Cc: Eric Meyer's CSS List 
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 8:33:04 AM
Subject: Re: [css-d] Firefox bug on on new Macs?

Michael Leibson wrote:
> 
> I used Firefox to view my website on a friend's zillion-pixel-wide new Mac, 
> yesterday, and I was astonished to find that all elements on all pages had a 
> significantly increased width, so that the design was effectively spread, 
> horizontally, to fit the (maximized) window.  This would have pleased me, 
> were my design fluid -- but it isn't:  it's fixed!  
> The site is  www.thinkingmusic.ca .  The home page's main div (a sandy
> grey colour) should be 790px wide, and the slate-blue navigation div,
> immediately to its left, should be 244px wide (including border).
> 
> Anyone have any idea what might be going on? I've always thought that Firefox 
> uniformly reproduces css-based designs, regardless of operating platform. . . 
> Thanks, in advance, for any clues you'd care to share!
> 
> Michael
> 
>  


It is in part due to the width of 1426px set on #background and the issue you 
have is not limited to FF-- it happens in all browsers. Structuring a layout 
with absolute positioning seldom works. Try your page at minimum font-size 24px 
in FF.
Validate the markup.


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Re: [css-d] Firefox bug on on new Macs?

[Michael Leibson]

>Seems to me to be behaving as the stylesheet intends.
Thanks, Peter!
- Michael



From: Peter Hammarling 
To: Michael Leibson 
Cc: CSS-D 
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 8:07:05 AM
Subject: Re: [css-d] Firefox bug on on new Macs?


I used Firefox to view my website on a friend's zillion-pixel-wide new Mac, 
yesterday, and I was astonished to find that all elements on all pages had a 
significantly increased width, so that the design was effectively spread, 
horizontally, to fit the (maximized) window.  This would have pleased me, were 
my design fluid -- but it isn't:  it's fixed!  

The site is  www.thinkingmusic.ca .  The home page's main div (a sandy
grey colour) should be 790px wide, and the slate-blue navigation div,
immediately to its left, should be 244px wide (including border).
On my Mac 23" display your pages will move to centre as you widen or narrow the 
window (in Mozilla), but the main content div and the navigation div stay at 
fixed width.

The brown b/g box will widen with the change of window width but only up to 
about 1425 pixels, after which you start to see white at the right of it.

Seems to me to be behaving as the stylesheet intends.

HTH, Peter H


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Re: [css-d] Intermittent IE 7 problem

[Rebecca Mazur]

If anyone's interested in trying to see if they can break the pages again, I'd 
love to have you try :)  Some of the places I previously spotted it happening 
are below:

http://www.kenyon.edu/x12366.xml
http://www.kenyon.edu/x7904.xml
http://www.kenyon.edu/x14305.xml
http://www.kenyon.edu/x34363.xml

Again, IE only.

What I ended up doing was applying a min-height to the content section.  The 
real trick was that it's not the same min-height on each page.  I really gave 
the CMS's xslt processor a workout to get it to estimate the height of that 
left 
column, and it's still not a pretty fix (in my opinion).  For the time being I 
used the CMS's sniffer to only apply it when the page is accessed via IE.  If I 
later am satisfied that the fix causes no problems in any other browsers I'll 
probably drop that portion of the code so I don't have to depend on browser 
detection.

Thanks for all the ideas; they did help get me pointed in the right direction 
(I 
think!  Unless someone finds it misbehaving again!)

~Rebecca
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Re: [css-d] :first-word?

[Climis, Tim]

> Besides, if you can and wish to add extra markup, you might just as well 
> introduce  or  (or some other inline element, to be styled), and 
> then you would not need to create an extra line break.
>
> No pure CSS solution (i.e. an approach that does not require any added 
> markup to separate the first line from the rest of the content) is possible.

That's sort of what I thought.  So  or  it is.  I haven't decided 
which I like better for semantic purposes yet.

---Tim
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Re: [css-d] Firefox bug on on new Macs?

[David Laakso]

Michael Leibson wrote:
>
> I used Firefox to view my website on a friend's zillion-pixel-wide new Mac, 
> yesterday, and I was astonished to find that all elements on all pages had a 
> significantly increased width, so that the design was effectively spread, 
> horizontally, to fit the (maximized) window.  This would have pleased me, 
> were my design fluid -- but it isn't:  it's fixed!  
>
> The site is  www.thinkingmusic.ca .  The home page's main div (a sandy
> grey colour) should be 790px wide, and the slate-blue navigation div,
> immediately to its left, should be 244px wide (including border).
>
> Anyone have any idea what might be going on? I've always thought that Firefox 
> uniformly reproduces css-based designs, regardless of operating platform. . . 
>
> Thanks, in advance, for any clues you'd care to share!
>
> Michael
>
>   


It is in part due to the width of 1426px set on #background and the 
issue you have is not limited to FF-- it happens in all browsers. 
Structuring a layout with absolute positioning seldom works. Try your 
page at minimum font-size 24px in FF.
Validate the markup.


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Re: [css-d] Firefox bug on on new Macs?

[Peter Hammarling]

> I used Firefox to view my website on a friend's zillion-pixel-wide  
> new Mac, yesterday, and I was astonished to find that all elements  
> on all pages had a significantly increased width, so that the design  
> was effectively spread, horizontally, to fit the (maximized)  
> window.  This would have pleased me, were my design fluid -- but it  
> isn't:  it's fixed!
>
> The site is  www.thinkingmusic.ca .  The home page's main div (a sandy
> grey colour) should be 790px wide, and the slate-blue navigation div,
> immediately to its left, should be 244px wide (including border).


On my Mac 23" display your pages will move to centre as you widen or  
narrow the window (in Mozilla), but the main content div and the  
navigation div stay at fixed width.

The brown b/g box will widen with the change of window width but only  
up to about 1425 pixels, after which you start to see white at the  
right of it.

Seems to me to be behaving as the stylesheet intends.

HTH, Peter H
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Re: [css-d] Firefox bug on on new Macs?

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Michael Leibson wrote:

> I used Firefox to view my website on a friend's zillion-pixel-wide 
> new Mac, yesterday, and I was astonished to find that all elements on
>  all pages had a significantly increased width, so that the design 
> was effectively spread, horizontally, to fit the (maximized) window.

Don't know how wide the screen on a zillion-pixel-wide new Mac is, but
my trusty old win machine provides me with a 3800 px wide screen for
browsers if/when I need it.
I need nearly half of that screen-area for your page, in any browser,
just to get rid of the horizontal scrollbar. That's before adding
page-zoom to the equation.

> This would have pleased me, were my design fluid -- but it isn't: 
> it's fixed!

1: your page is full of markup errors...

...and some of those are serious.

2: background is positioned 50% from the left side - regardless of
window size.

3: what Fx version did you test in and what settings were at play?

> www.thinkingmusic.ca .

Individual elements hold their declared width, but the page as such
needs 1650px wide windows to get rid of the horizontal scrollbar.

The declared dimensions on paragraphs and parent-less list-items are
creating problems...



...and extra horizontal width all browsers have to cope with.
Why not let those elements auto-adjust to their containers?

FWIW: it looks like you're attempting to recreate print design on the
web, and that rarely ever works well.

regards
Georg
-- 
http://www.gunlaug.no
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Re: [css-d] Firefox bug on on new Macs?

[Philippe Wittenbergh]

On Apr 10, 2009, at 8:43 PM, Michael Leibson wrote:

> I used Firefox to view my website on a friend's zillion-pixel-wide  
> new Mac, yesterday, and I was astonished to find that all elements  
> on all pages had a significantly increased width, so that the design  
> was effectively spread, horizontally, to fit the (maximized)  
> window.  This would have pleased me, were my design fluid -- but it  
> isn't:  it's fixed!
>
> The site is  www.thinkingmusic.ca .  The home page's main div (a sandy
> grey colour) should be 790px wide, and the slate-blue navigation div,
> immediately to its left, should be 244px wide (including border).

Dunno. Here is how it looks like, when I force the window to the width  
of the monitor -windoze users call that full screen or something:

I zoomed the text, note how the selected part overflows the sand  
background (and is then unreadable).

At my normal window width, no text zoom. Note the heavy horizontal  
scrollbar.

Safari 3.2 and 4b displays exactly the same.
On a another Mac with a 24"inch monitor, it behaves all the same.

On Ubuntu Linux, same thing.

I like the colours, btw.


Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh
http://l-c-n.com/





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[css-d] Firefox bug on on new Macs?

[Michael Leibson]

Hi;

I used Firefox to view my website on a friend's zillion-pixel-wide new Mac, 
yesterday, and I was astonished to find that all elements on all pages had a 
significantly increased width, so that the design was effectively spread, 
horizontally, to fit the (maximized) window.  This would have pleased me, were 
my design fluid -- but it isn't:  it's fixed!  

The site is  www.thinkingmusic.ca .  The home page's main div (a sandy
grey colour) should be 790px wide, and the slate-blue navigation div,
immediately to its left, should be 244px wide (including border).

Anyone have any idea what might be going on? I've always thought that Firefox 
uniformly reproduces css-based designs, regardless of operating platform. . . 

Thanks, in advance, for any clues you'd care to share!

Michael


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Re: [css-d] :first-word?

[Jukka K. Korpela]

Divya Manian wrote:

> You can try using :first-line [1]. Probably use a  to separate
> the lines? Not sure if it will work though (Certainly not semantic!).

It would work technically well (:first-line has been in CSS since CSS 1.0 
and is widely supported), but introducing an extra line break would be an 
odd way to deal with bolding. Moreover, in that approach, the colon ":" 
after the word would get styled too, and the question was about styling the 
first word only.

Besides, if you can and wish to add extra markup, you might just as well 
introduce  or  (or some other inline element, to be styled), and 
then you would not need to create an extra line break.

No pure CSS solution (i.e. an approach that does not require any added 
markup to separate the first line from the rest of the content) is possible.

If you can affect the JavaScript code for the page, then you could probably 
write a relatively simple piece of JavaScript that traverses the document, 
modifies the structure by adding elements for the first words, and assigns 
style properties to them as desired.

-- 
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/ 

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Re: [css-d] double borders. A different story in IE?

[Michael Adams]

On Thu, 09 Apr 2009 23:44:04 -0700
Came this utterance formulated by Divya Manian to my mailbox:

> On 4/9/09 1:37 PM, "Michael Adams"  wrote:
> 
> > Divya - I disagree. IE7 handles the XML declaration fine in
> > standards mode[1]. Although i see it on line 8 when it should always
> > be on line 1. IMHO IE less than IE7 should always be in quirks mode
> > and the XML declaration will achieve this.
> > 
> > Jon - I am on linux here at home so no IE running. Will look at it
> > at work later today but you may already have an answer by then.
> > 
> > [1] http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/09/15/467901.aspx
> 
> I think this bug is still triggered in IE 6[1], but I didn't realise
> the question was asked for IE 7. Sorry about that.
> 
> [1] http://www.quirksmode.org/css/quirksmode.html 
> 

My point was that I don't see quirks mode as a bug. I find it useful
and actively force IE5 - IE6 into it. That way they behave more
consistently. I see the XML declaration as the cleanest way to force
quirks mode.

-- 
Michael

All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall
be well

 - Julian of Norwich 1342 - 1416
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Re: [css-d] double borders. A different story in IE?

[Divya Manian]

On 4/9/09 1:37 PM, "Michael Adams"  wrote:

> Divya - I disagree. IE7 handles the XML declaration fine in standards
> mode[1]. Although i see it on line 8 when it should always be on line 1.
> IMHO IE less than IE7 should always be in quirks mode and the XML
> declaration will achieve this.
> 
> Jon - I am on linux here at home so no IE running. Will look at it at
> work later today but you may already have an answer by then.
> 
> [1] http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/09/15/467901.aspx

I think this bug is still triggered in IE 6[1], but I didn't realise the
question was asked for IE 7. Sorry about that.

[1] http://www.quirksmode.org/css/quirksmode.html 


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