[css-d] Listings ol and li spacing

2009-06-22 Thread BobSharp
Sorry -  typo

http://ttphp.open.ac.uk/~bs3578/test1/Week07_05-01.php


BobSharp wrote:


 How would you decrease the inherant spacing between
 headings on  ol:  lines  and the listings on  li:  lines  ?


- Original Message - 
From: Tim Snadden li...@snadden.com
To: Css-Discussion Group css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 4:26 AM
Subject: Re: [css-d] Listings ol and li spacing



 On 22/06/2009, at 2:22 PM, BobSharp wrote:

 http://ttphp.open.ac.uk/~bs3578/test1/Week08_05-01.php


 404 - Not found.
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Re: [css-d] Listings ol and li spacing

2009-06-22 Thread Philippe Wittenbergh

On Jun 22, 2009, at 5:51 PM, BobSharp wrote:

 Sorry -  typo

 http://ttphp.open.ac.uk/~bs3578/test1/Week07_05-01.php

Have you tried the obvious solution(s) : play with margins on the h4  
and the ol ?

e.g.
h4 {margin:.5em 0;}
ol {padding: 0 0 0 2em; margin: .5em 0;}

Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh
http://l-c-n.com/





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Re: [css-d] Listings ol and li spacing

2009-06-22 Thread Paul Novitski
At 6/22/2009 01:51 AM, BobSharp wrote:
http://ttphp.open.ac.uk/~bs3578/test1/Week07_05-01.php

 BobSharp wrote:
 
  How would you decrease the inherant spacing between
  headings on  ol:  lines  and the listings on  li:  lines  ?


To begin, clean up your markup by removing the BReak tags from 
between your LIs.
1) XHTML doesn't permit any children of a UL except LI.
2) Avoid using markup to force presentation. Instead, use CSS.
3) LI is by default a block-level element, which means that HTML 
lists render vertically by default, so you don't need to force the 
list items to render on separate lines.
 (If you had styled them as inline or floated so they wanted 
to render on the same row, there are better ways of forcing them into 
a vertical list than by inserting break tags, even in legal 
positions. But you're not creating that situation so all the break 
tags are doing (other than invalidating your markup) is increasing 
vertical spacing between your unordered list items.

The W3C HTML Validator is your friend:
http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1uri=http%3A%2F%2Fttphp.open.ac.uk%2F~bs3578%2Ftest1%2FWeek07_05-01.php

The answer to your question is that you can use top  bottom margin 
and/or padding in your stylesheet to modify the default vertical 
spacing between various elements.

Your list markup is:

 ul
 lih4Surname/h4
 ol
 li
...


If it's the vertical space between the surname heading and the list 
below it that you want to decrease, I'd decrease the margin-bottom on 
ul h4 and/or the margin-top on ul ol.

To replace the break tags I've suggested you remove, simply give each 
ul li a margin-bottom of 1em or whatever, then counteract that with 
ul ol li {margin-bottom: 0);

Regards,

Paul
__

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Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
http://juniperwebcraft.com 

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Re: [css-d] Listings ol and li spacing

2009-06-22 Thread Tim Snadden

On 22/06/2009, at 9:43 PM, Paul Novitski wrote:

 3) LI is by default a block-level element,

It's probably worth mentioning that the default display property of  
'li' is list-item, not block. That's not to take away from the rest of  
the advice though.

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Re: [css-d] Listings ol and li spacing

2009-06-22 Thread Paul Novitski
At 6/22/2009 03:12 AM, Tim Snadden wrote:

On 22/06/2009, at 9:43 PM, Paul Novitski wrote:

  3) LI is by default a block-level element,

It's probably worth mentioning that the default display property of
'li' is list-item, not block. That's not to take away from the rest of
the advice though.


I was referring not to li's display property but rather to the fact 
that it's normally a block-level element. To quote the old spec:

9.2.1 Block-level elements and block boxes

Block-level elements are those elements of the source document that 
are formatted visually as blocks (e.g., paragraphs). Several values 
of the 'display' property make an element block-level: 'block', 
'list-item', and 'run-in'
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/visuren.html#block-boxes

Regards,

Paul
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http://juniperwebcraft.com 

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Re: [css-d] Firefox Mac font spacing

2009-06-22 Thread Andrew Frazier
On Thu, 18 Jun 2009 01:06:09 +0100, David Laakso  
da...@chelseacreekstudio.com wrote:

 Andrew Frazier wrote:
 On this page:

 http://organized.gloderworks.net/indexnew.php
 (stylesheets here: http://organized.gloderworks.net/stylesheet.css and   
 here: http://organized.gloderworks.net/structure.css)





 Re-set this:
 #nav {font-size: 11px;}
 To this:
 #nav {font: 11px Helvetica Neue, Arial, sans-serif;}
 And tweak the h-padding to taste.
 Not tested.
 ~d


Thanks, David, that seemed to have the best result.


Andrew Frazier


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Re: [css-d] Listings ol and li spacing

2009-06-22 Thread David Laakso
BobSharp wrote:


 How would you decrease the inherant spacing between 
 headings on  ol:  lines  and the listings on  li:  lines  ?  
  
 http://ttphp.open.ac.uk/~bs3578/test1/Week08_05-01.php



   





Some methods for setting lists for those who can't read and learn best 
by example (like me):
http://htmldog.com/examples/lists1.html
http://css.maxdesign.com.au/listamatic/

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[css-d] 'Local proxy' tool to aid in CSS development of dynamic sites

2009-06-22 Thread Oliver Secluna
Hi,

 

I work for an enterprise-level ecommerce platform and we have separated
our site build process into two phases - functionality and look-and-feel
(or you could say separate content and style). The html and any
javascript is completed as much as possible during the functionality
phase, so the look-and-feel phase is as close as we can get it to just
using CSS and images to apply a design.

 

We identified a problem when using CSS developers whose normal way of
working is to save the html of a site locally and apply the CSS. Our
sites are dynamic and we may need to add products and content to the
site at any point during the build process. This meant they could be
developing CSS against out of date content.

 

To solve this problem we have commissioned a CSS developer tool, which
is essentially a local proxy. It allows you to work with local CSS (or
indeed images or javascript) and preview your changes against a dynamic
site. The tool is fully functional (although still in beta) and we have
been using it internally for a few months.

 

I have particularly found it useful for bugfixing of our live sites. You
can fix any CSS problem on any browser and be confident that you have
tested it against the real site before pushing your fix live.

 

The tool is still in beta and the set up requires use of the command
line, but please do try it out and let me know if you find it useful:
http://www.venda.com/page/developertools

 

If you wish to run the tool on several browsers at once, note that it's
best to run several instances of the site. Also it's best not to proxy
too many files at once as this can cause your browser to slow down. I
hope you find this useful - I'd be greatful for any feedback

 

Cheers,

Olly

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[css-d] Can view in Safari but not Firefox

2009-06-22 Thread Ellen Heitman
I know it's hard to determine without seeing the actual site, but I don't
have a test site up yet. Just wondering if anyone can see anything
immediately wrong with the following CSS, in terms of it appearing in
Mozilla. It appears perfectly well in Safari.
#timelinebkgd {
background: url(images/timeline_bkgd.jpg);
width: 689px;
height:653px;
position:absolute;
top:24px;
left:12px;
z-index:5;
margin:0 auto;
text-align:center;
}

It applies to the following HTML:

div id=timelinebkgd
pPan the timeline by dragging it horizontally/p
div id=my-timeline/div
/div

Any ideas as to what the problem could be? Thanks!
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Re: [css-d] Can view in Safari but not Firefox

2009-06-22 Thread divya manian
On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 8:15 AM, Ellen Heitmanellen.heit...@gmail.com wrote:
 #timelinebkgd {
 background: url(images/timeline_bkgd.jpg);
 width: 689px;
 height:653px;
 position:absolute;
 top:24px;
 left:12px;
 z-index:5;
 margin:0 auto;
 text-align:center;
 }

 Any ideas as to what the problem could be? Thanks!

The only thing I see is margin:0 auto; is redundant when you are using
position:absolute (positioning takes precedence).

Other than that we do really need a URL to figure it out. Probably
some other parent element is causing the issue?

- divya
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[css-d] adjusting overall size in css?

2009-06-22 Thread Jenni Beard
Hi all,

 

I'm having yet another problem with the site I'm working on.  It seemed
perfect, then I was told that the person viewing it could not see the entire
site (width) on his computer monitor.  I verified that this is not a very
old monitor.

 

I probably should try to make the overall wrapper width a bit narrower since
it's set at a width of 1200px, but I was designing the site with the idea
that the old 600x800 monitors are pretty much obsolete so it seems that it
should work in anything else.  I've viewed the site on 4 different
machines-including a fairly small laptop screen, which shows it perfectly.
But while viewing on a different, older laptop, one must scroll side to side
to see much of the text while keeping the left navigation in view.  I'm told
by a few friends that I had check it that it views the same way on a couple
other screens.

 

So my question is, is there a way to make the site stay the same size on a
larger monitor but automatically shrink down on a smaller one?  

Please keep in mind that the site must be easily viewable by an audience
that is not terribly computer-savvy so expecting them to change monitor
settings or browser settings is not the solution.

 

http://fossilbyte.com/1/index.html 

 

Thank you!

 

Jenni

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Re: [css-d] adjusting overall size in css?

2009-06-22 Thread Rod Castello
--- On Mon, 6/22/09, Jenni Beard je...@lowcountrybunny.com wrote:

From: Jenni Beard je...@lowcountrybunny.com
Subject: [css-d] adjusting overall size in css?
To: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
Date: Monday, June 22, 2009, 5:02 PM

So my question is, is there a way to make the site stay the same size on a
larger monitor but automatically shrink down on a smaller one?  
http://fossilbyte.com/1/index.html 
Thank you!
Jenni

  

Hi Jenni,
You will need to use some form of fluid layout.
Here's a great article on the subject, containing many existing sites using 
fluid layout.
http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2009/06/02/fixed-vs-fluid-vs-elastic-layout-whats-the-right-one-for-you/

In particular, this site does it very well.http://blossomgraphicdesign.com/
Good Luck
Rod Castello
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Re: [css-d] Listings ol and li spacing

2009-06-22 Thread David Laakso
David Laakso wrote:
 BobSharp wrote:
   
 How would you decrease the inherant spacing between 
 headings on  ol:  lines  and the listings on  li:  lines  ?  
  
 http://ttphp.open.ac.uk/~bs3578/test1/Week08_05-01.php



   
 

   

PS
Once you get that straightened out, try making your list readable :-) :
http://juicystudio.com/services/luminositycontrastratio.php
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[css-d] IE7 bugs

2009-06-22 Thread Joseph Sims

I have a site in the works...

http://www.titancom.net/dev/hec/JS/index.html

In IE7 the footer won't obey the clear of all floated elements - 
example:http://www.titancom.net/dev/hec/JS/k13.html . 

And the left sidebar carries white all the way down the page... obscuring the 
background that is supposed to create the faux columns look - example: 
http://www.titancom.net/dev/hec/JS/about.html.

I don't have much experience yet fixing for this stupid IE crap... anyone know 
what's up with these?

I thought my code was pretty simple so far.

~Joseph 


  
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Re: [css-d] adjusting overall size in css?

2009-06-22 Thread Felix Miata
On 2009/06/22 13:02 (GMT-0400) Jenni Beard composed:

 I'm having yet another problem with the site I'm working on.  It seemed
 perfect, then I was told that the person viewing it could not see the entire
 site (width) on his computer monitor.  I verified that this is not a very
 old monitor.

 I probably should try to make the overall wrapper width a bit narrower since
 it's set at a width of 1200px, but I was designing the site with the idea
 that the old 600x800 monitors are pretty much obsolete so it seems that it
 should work in anything else.  I've viewed the site on 4 different
 machines-including a fairly small laptop screen, which shows it perfectly.
 But while viewing on a different, older laptop, one must scroll side to side
 to see much of the text while keeping the left navigation in view.  I'm told
 by a few friends that I had check it that it views the same way on a couple
 other screens.

 So my question is, is there a way to make the site stay the same size on a
 larger monitor but automatically shrink down on a smaller one?  

 Please keep in mind that the site must be easily viewable by an audience
 that is not terribly computer-savvy so expecting them to change monitor
 settings or browser settings is not the solution.

 http://fossilbyte.com/1/index.html 

It's nice that you want to accommodate anachronistic screen resolutions. Have
you considered accommodating the opposite situation? Here's an example
showing what can happen on an expensive high quality modern display:
http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/jennbe01.jpg

Note that to consider it properly requires one of two things:

1-using a display of same resolution and size, or
2-mentally adjusting to the different object sizes by using objects other
than the content of your page as a frame of reference, such as web pages of
elastic design, other open apps, and/or the desktop's UI text.

The problem is actually the same at 2560x1600 as it is at 800x600. You've set
an inflexible overall width in px, as well as other of your CSS sizes. That
fixed width methodology does not and cannot take into account that not
everyone uses mediocre hardware and settings. Essentially it's what's known
as resolution dependent, which only works well if the viewer's system
resolution isn't far removed from your own.

If you convert to a resolution independent system of sizing, e.g. via elastic
(em-based) rather than fixed design, you have the potential to please a far
greater number of visitors, whether their displays are old, new, in between
-- or future.
-- 
Cast but a glance at riches, and they are gone,
for they will surely sprout wings and fly off to
the sky like an eagle.Proverbs 23:5 NIV

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/
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Re: [css-d] adjusting overall size in css?

2009-06-22 Thread Ed Seedhouse
On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Rod Castelloflashju...@sbcglobal.net wrote:

 So my question is, is there a way to make the site stay the same size on a
 larger monitor but automatically shrink down on a smaller one?
 http://fossilbyte.com/1/index.html


Well, if you just leave block elements like P to their natural
behaviour and don't set a size nor position them , they will naturally
occupy all possible width in their containers,  And if you set your
font size on your body to 100 and size all other fonts when necessary
in ems, they will appear to the visitor in either the browser default
size or their preferred size if they've adjusted their defaults.  And
if you don't try to specify exact fonts other than perhaps the generic
serif and sans-serif families then they'll usually see font they don't
mind much.

This involves mostly not doing stuff and allowing the user's browser
to be the boss.  It saves time and effort for the designer, but it
means giving up a level of control, which many designers feel
uncomfortable about.  But whether you actually have or can have that
level of control is at least questionable and I recommend a read
through Stewart Allsopp's seminal article at

http://www.alistapart.com/articles/dao
-- 
Ed Seedhouse
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Re: [css-d] Can view in Safari but not Firefox

2009-06-22 Thread Tim Snadden

On 23/06/2009, at 3:15 AM, Ellen Heitman wrote:

 I know it's hard to determine without seeing the actual site, but I  
 don't
 have a test site up yet. Just wondering if anyone can see anything
 immediately wrong with the following CSS, in terms of it appearing in
 Mozilla. It appears perfectly well in Safari.

I bet it's to do with the absolute positioning. Try giving an ancestor  
of timelinebkgd position: relative. That's just a guess though. As  
Divya said, you need to show us something.
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[css-d] Tab layout problem

2009-06-22 Thread John
Hi all,

I'm seeing if I can get a tabbed layout to work:

http://www.donann.co.uk/new_site/tabs1.html

What I've got so far works okay to a certain degree in Firefox/Opera/Safari 
(IE6 is not okay but I'm not to worried about that at the moment).

I've used div's with height 1px to make the 'borders' under the tabs.

Trouble is when I zoom to make the font bigger in Firefox I get the divs that 
I've used to make up the 'border' under the tabs starting to go out of line 
slightly. Worse is zooming to make the font's smaller, where the end div 
becomes too wide for the width and moves down under the others that I've used 
to make the bottom borders of the tab's.

A couple of questions:

I couldn't Google any information towards a layout like this, any pointers to 
pages that might help would be greatfully received!

I'm using em's to set the width of the tabs and the width of the div's  used 
to make the 'borders' beneath them. I assumed that when using em's and then 
increasing/decreasing the font size the relative width measurements of the 
tab's and div's making the 'borders' should stay the same. Is this assumption 
correct and if so, is the problem I'm having due to my lack of accuracy with 
the em values I'm using?

Also if anyone thinks I'm barking up the wrong tree trying to do it this way 
please let me know and I'll start again!

Hope that makes sense.

Regards

John
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Re: [css-d] adjusting overall size in css?

2009-06-22 Thread David Laakso
Jenni Beard wrote:

 So my question is, is there a way to make the site stay the same size on a
 larger monitor but automatically shrink down on a smaller one?  

  

 http://fossilbyte.com/1/index.html 

  


 Jenni
   


Yes, it is possible. And relatively easy when using text, and foreground 
images, to set a min/max width on the outermost wrapper so that the text 
content, and images, will be usable and functional and collapse and 
expand to any given window of 640 to up in the 1200 range. But to 
re-construct your page, to make it behave that way. would be an 
extremely difficult, complex, and very time-consuming adventure in an 
entirely different layout concept than you have now.  Given that, unless 
you have at least a month or more, to start over and work out all the 
issues, I'd  opt for  informing users who are having difficulty that 
both horizontal and vertical scrolling is necessary to view the content 
of the site in narrow windows.


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Re: [css-d] adjusting overall size in css?

2009-06-22 Thread David Hucklesby
Jenni Beard wrote:
 
 I'm having yet another problem with the site I'm working on.  It
 seemed perfect, then I was told that the person viewing it could not
 see the entire site (width) on his computer monitor.  I verified that
 this is not a very old monitor.
 
 
 
 I probably should try to make the overall wrapper width a bit
 narrower since it's set at a width of 1200px, but I was designing the
 site with the idea that the old 600x800 monitors are pretty much
 obsolete so it seems that it should work in anything else.

Hi Jenni,

You have already received some good advice, but I'd like to add my two
cents.

I think 1200px a bit ambitious - many of those lovely new netbooks
display at 1024 pixels wide. A popular size these days seems to be 960px
- my browsers are all set around 1,000px wide because of this, despite
having a 1680px wide screen.

Liquid or elastic designs can be difficult, especially if you have a
designer who does not understand the Web. I suggest getting the book
Flexible Web Design by Zoe Gillenwater to educate your designer on this.

FWIW - I assist at a computer training workshop. A number of students
set the resolution to 800 by 600 to make the text bigger. I imagine
that's what they do at home, too.

Cordially,
David
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Re: [css-d] Tab layout problem

2009-06-22 Thread Tim Snadden

On 23/06/2009, at 8:23 AM, John wrote:


 I couldn't Google any information towards a layout like this, any  
 pointers to
 pages that might help would be greatfully received!

Really? I just tried a few searches: 'CSS tabs', 'CSS tabbed  
interface', 'CSS tabs rounded corners'. It's a very common design that  
has been done by many people before. Have another look. Here are a  
couple of the links that came up.

http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2007/04/18/14-tab-based-inferface-techniques/ 
 

This one is a classic - http://www.alistapart.com/articles/slidingdoors/ 
 .

As far as what you have done so far, I'd suggest that validating your  
markup and CSS is not only good practice in general but it helps with  
debugging and should always be the first step. If there is a markup  
problem you can end up writing all sorts of crazy CSS to make it look  
right.

http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.donann.co.uk%2Fnew_site%2Ftabs1.html
 
 

You can't put a div inside an a.

I hope that helps, Tim





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Re: [css-d] Tab layout problem

2009-06-22 Thread Al Sparber
From: Tim Snadden li...@snadden.com
 Really? I just tried a few searches: 'CSS tabs', 'CSS tabbed
 interface', 'CSS tabs rounded corners'. It's a very common design that
 has been done by many people before. Have another look. Here are a
 couple of the links that came up.

 http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2007/04/18/14-tab-based-inferface-techniques/
 

 This one is a classic - http://www.alistapart.com/articles/slidingdoors/

Here's one that goes beyond what the sliding doors article teaches - 
allowing a full rollover effect:
http://www.projectseven.com/tutorials/css/qtabs/

Not as famous, but a bit tastier :-)

-- 
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
Dreamweaver Menus | Galleries | Widgets
http://www.projectseven.com/go/apm
An Accessible  Elegant Accordion






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Re: [css-d] adjusting overall size in css?

2009-06-22 Thread david
David Hucklesby wrote:

 FWIW - I assist at a computer training workshop. A number of students
 set the resolution to 800 by 600 to make the text bigger. I imagine
 that's what they do at home, too.

My boss does that on his brand-new Dell business laptop (1440x960 native 
resolution) even when he has it hooked to our standard pair of 1280x1024 
LCDs. He does it to make the system fonts large enough for him to see.

I run my newer laptop with Large Fonts, which is enough to address the 
issue for me. On my employer's standard browser (IE6), that makes the 
default Medium font look large to me ... eventually I'll tweak it.

-- 
David
gn...@hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
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