Re: [css-d] css-d Digest, Vol 157, Issue 1

[Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh]

OK I'll offer my $0.02

I stopped following the site because CSS in a vacuum is not interesting, to
me.

Real world work involves a three part combination of HTML CSS and
Javascript.

Discussing one without the others is like trying to get healthy by exercise
alone, without paying attention to diet and the sleep cycle.

We live in a world of systems.  That's what I'm interested in. Whole
systems.

On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 2:27 PM,  wrote:

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>1. Re: [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello (John D)
>2. Re: [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello (Micky Hulse)
>3. Re: [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello (Tom Livingston)
>4. Re: [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello (Micky Hulse)
>5. Re: [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello (Felix Miata)
>6. Re: [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello (Micky Hulse)
>7. Re: Flexbox Fallback to Justify Nav Items with Equal Spacing
>   (Eric A. Meyer)
>8. Re: [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello (Erik Visser)
>9. Re: [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello (MiB)
>   10. Re: [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello (John Griessen)
>   11. Re: [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello (John Griessen)
>   12. Re: [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
>   13. Re: [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello (Davies, Elizabeth)
>   14. Re: [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello (Cheryl D Wise)
>   15. Re: [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello (Theophan Dort)
>   16. Re: [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello (John D)
>   17. Re: [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello (John Griessen)
>   18. Re: [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello (GJim)
>   19. Re: [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello (Kathy Wheeler)
>   20. Re: [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello (MiB)
>   21. Re: [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello (Del Wegener)
>   22. Re: [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 17:37:23 +
> From: John D 
> To: COM , "Eric A. Meyer" ,
> CSS-Discuss 
> Subject: Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
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>
>
>
> > On the other hand, CSS and HTML are like salt and pepper, bert and
> ernie, bread and butter. They seem to be the keys to each other?s locks, or
> perhaps together they form a whole technology, and within that perspective,
> I can see a list embracing both technologies as a focus.
> >
>
> Despite what people might think, Bootstrap is pure CSS and the code works
> out of the box for today's hunger for responsive websites.
>
> JS is optional extra as is glyphicons fonts and we don't need to discuss
> here if it is considered outside the scope of this forum.
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 10:21:45 -0800
> From: Micky Hulse 
> To: CSS-D Discuss 
> Subject: Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello
> Message-ID:
> 

[css-d] Future of CSS and media queries for responsive design

[Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh]

As the resolution of cell phones rapidly escalates I find myself wondering
how much longer media queries can be useful.  Phones will soon have the
same nominal resolution as desktop monitors, and yet still be tiny by
physical comparison.

Aren't media queries, as they now are a flawed system, heading for a high
speed crash? Or do I misunderstand how this works?

If so--if a technology change is indeed looming--will CSS be part of the
ultimate solution?



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Re: [css-d] validating CSS when?

[Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh]

Are there any good lists--populated by serious developers, like this
one--wear on topic includes all the trades real developers use, like
server side scripting, databases, javascript AND CSS?  There are many such
forums.  But forums tend to be populated by beginners while lists tend to
be populated by real coding soldiers.

On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 10:30 AM, Philip Taylor p.tay...@rhul.ac.uk wrote:



 Barney Carroll wrote:

  That's an interesting approach. Any particular reason(s) not to use HTML5
 at all times?


 Yes, but this is not the place to discuss it/them !
 Philip Taylor

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Re: [css-d] sticky footer position in IE - bottom of window instead of page

[Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh]

Am I right?  I'm asking, not proclaiming.

Code like this is perhaps useful because it solves a problem.  But it's a
hard-coded hack relying on unintended side effects and more likely than not
to sometime break in the future. More likely than more standard codes that
don't exploit side effects (negative margins and hard-coded pixels etc)

It relies on hard-coding and coupling footer-height in pixels to codes
relating to the page-wrap block, that in a better world would be modular
and independent.  And not so tightly coupled.  There must be a better way.
I'll have to read through the entire thread to see what other solutions
there are.  I do  it with fixed positioning on my little (amateur) website.


.page-wrap {
  min-height: 100%;
  /* equal to footer height */
  margin-bottom: -142px;
}

On Sat, Nov 8, 2014 at 5:06 PM, Debbie Campbell d...@redkitecreative.com
wrote:

 I stripped out all the sticky footer code and tried a few other methods,
 this one worked and tested down to IE8 with no problems:

  http://css-tricks.com/snippets/css/sticky-footer/


 The footer is now where it should be. Thank you for your input everyone.

  http://www.redkitecreative.com/dev/boisson/


 Also I fixed the :focus state for links, thanks for that too.

 --
 Debbie

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Re: [css-d] Equal height script not working on some pages

[Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh]

I see it (the problem) in Chrome on Linux


On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 5:53 AM, MiB digital.disc...@gmail.com wrote:


 30 jun 2014 kl. 06:54 skrev J.C. Berry jcharlesbe...@gmail.com:

  Hello all,
  We are having an issue of content running off some pages past the
  footer-even though we are using an equal height script. Here is one of
 the
  pages:


 You don't specify which browsers have an issue. Looks OK in Safari 7.0.4
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Re: [css-d] Select by descendant?

[Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh]

You can with X-Path in XML.  No reason why it shouldn't be possible
eventually--as part of CSS.  And many reasons why it should


On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 5:06 AM, MiB digital.disc...@gmail.com wrote:


 may 16 2014 11:53 BPJ b...@melroch.se:

  is it possible to select an element based on the presence or absence of a
  descendant with some attribute?


 AFAIK it's not possible to select a parent element based on its
 descendant, no.

 Can you describe a specific example? Do you control the HTML source?
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[css-d] floating thumbnails

[Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh]

The following link displays an HTML fragment taken from a (home-brewed)
content management system, stripped down to the relevant block area only:
div id=main-gallery-disp ...stuff.../div

The HTML:
http://fliesfliesflies.com/fragments/Gallery/ttest.html

The (stripped down)  CSS:
http://fliesfliesflies.com/css/rrobo.css

In the CSS the codes related to floated thumbnails is at the bottom of the
CSS file. Each thumbnail is enclosed in a paragraph element such as:

p class=robonava href=

http://fliesfliesflies.com/index.php?page=Gallery/Pelicans-skies.jpg;
img src=/fragments/Gallery/archive/thumbs/tn-Pelicans-skies.jpg
alt=
Pelicans-skies.jpg //a/p

In this Gallery page I'd like all thumbnails to float left around the
main display image without making odd, unpredictable white space areas on
the next line after a thumbnail runs off the right side of the display area.

In other words I'd like the thumbnails to float into an orderly table like
arrangement, controlled entirely by the browser, depending on current
viewport width.

is this possible with CSS only?

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Re: [css-d] hiding things and bandwidth?

[Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh]

Only this group's mentor and creator can set the rules.  Because this group
IS a forum for discussing CSS it seems right to limit fine-grained
how-to-do-it discussion to CSS only.  But the use of CSS in the real world
invariably happens in a context that almost always includes a mixture of
technologies including databases, server side scripting and javascript.  So
at higher big picture level some discussion about how CSS fits into the
overall scheme of things still seems appropriate.

Using Javascript cookies and (initially) a double GET to determine the
state of the current user agent makes the most sense to me--so custom CSS,
custom image sizes and even custom HTML can be sent back down the pipe.
 CSS only mobile first approaches violate basic theory of programming
rules because mobile first inescapably couples itself to both small mobile
displays plus the vastly different requirements of bigger desktop displays.
 Writing codes with semi-secret two role agendas is seldom a good idea.


On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 9:48 AM, Chris Williams ch...@clwill.com wrote:

 Which is precisely what I suggested as one of the two alternatives:  use
 JS to serve up content based on screen size.

 On 2/17/14 12:27 AM, MiB digital.disc...@gmail.com wrote:

 
 Javascript analysis of screen type ...

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Re: [css-d] Will the unsemantic HTML elements B and I be soon phased out?

[Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh]

Interesting question.  Much as I personally dislike them, web-app editors
like tinyMCE and FCK rely on tags like b and i and font
color=whatever
I don't see why those programs couldn't be re-written to use span
style=label:value;.  But it would cause some developers to jump around
quickly.


On Sat, Feb 15, 2014 at 3:47 PM, Ezequiel Garzón garzon.luc...@gmail.comwrote:

 Greetings to all,

 I know this is highly subjective question, but am curious as to what
 people think about this issue. Allow me to put forth a few questions,
 and you can pick all of any of them. When the WHATWG describes the I
 element as a span of text in an alternate voice or mood, and the B
 element as a span of text to which attention is being drawn for
 utilitarian purposes, I'm puzzled... wouldn't this be the role of a
 special class for the SPAN element? I'm actually glad I and B are
 survivors, but seeing that U and S have been deprecated, it doesn't
 seem very consistent to keep these two one-letter elements around.
 And, going back to my main question, do you believe these two elements
 will be deprecated soon?

 Thank you in advance for any thoughts you may have on the matter.

 Best regards,

 Ezequiel
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Re: [css-d] Controlling per-page nav contents

[Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh]

The original poster indicated he is generating his pages with PHP.  Others
since have shown how the home link could be hidden on the home page only
using CSS rather than PHP. But the same result *could* be accomplished with
server-side PHP logic. So perhaps the interesting question is Which avenue
is better?  CSS or server side scripting?

Is there something about the CSS only approach that adds measurable value?


On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 11:17 AM, Tom Livingston tom...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 1:10 PM, John Johnson j...@coffeeonmars.com
 wrote:
  I apologize if this turns out to be more a PHP question, but is there a
 way to eclude a particular nav link on particular pages?
 
  the specific: prevent the Home page from having a text/nav element
 Home while the Home nav elements would be visible on all other pages.
 
  Thank you,
 
  John


 Normally, I just class a main wrapper (consistent on all pages) or the
 body element and attack it that way...

 .homepage nav a.home{display:none; visibility: none;}


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[css-d] Detecting Quirks Mode

[Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh]

I can see how the following Quirks Mode question could be construed as not
about CSS.

But perhaps it is because CSS is unpredictable and semi-worthless when
browsers get tripped into Quirks Mode.  I've been getting a lot of legacy
work recently where website owners bring me ancient table layout
Dreamweaver sites they want updated--so they appear well on phones as well
as on monitors.

I'm finding those sites are often riddled with HTML errors, which are
usually easy enough to fix.  One persistent error is a lack of alt=xxx
tags inside images, and also lots of  mis-matches  between DOCTYPE and
coding style--often with no closing /p elements for paragraphs and
ongoing coding salad that mixes br with br/ and img elements that
sometimes self-close and sometimes do not, all in the same file.

How does one know when a browser is or is not in Quirks Mode?  Sometimes
it's obvious. Sometimes it is not.

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[css-d] Massive mouse over dropdowns--possible with CSS?

[Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh]

The following West Marine website has large complex dropdown navigation
menus that change as mouse-over changes on a horizontal row of banner
links. West Marine  does this with javascript.

Is the same thing possible with CSS? Examples? I'm familiar with vertical
list-like CSS dropdowns (or popout horizontally) menus. But these are more
like multi-column dropdowns.

I'm not even sure I like this, design wise. But I have a customer who wants
it. Is requesting it.

So I wonder about how best to do it.

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/TopCategories1_11151_10001_-1

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Re: [css-d] Trying to get the big picture view on responsive design

[Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh]

many such breakpoints (out there in practice) are defined in ems, even when
the author is thinking pixels, where one EM is calculated as 16 pixels.

/* for 600px ...(16 * 37.5 == 600)  */
@media all and (min-width: 37.5em) {

...css goes here
}

I've been doing this because the examples I copied did this. But I don't
know why. Can anybody explain this issue?


On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 6:36 AM, Tim Arnold tim.arn...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 7:26 AM, william drescher
 will...@techservsys.com wrote:

  I looked and googled but... what is a css breakpoint?
  Is it just setting width ?
 
  bill
 

 Breakpoints are points at which certain CSS rules kick in.  They are
 most commonly based on the width of your browser viewport but can also
 be tied to other properties of a device.  You use media queries to
 define them.

 A common example would be that you have a block on the page that is
 50% of the available width (maybe lining up horizontally in two
 columns) and you need them to switch to 100% wide on smaller screens
 (stacking vertically instead of horizontally).  In the case below, any
 screen less than 700px wide would do this.

 700px would be the breakpoint

 .story{width: 50%; float: left;}

 @media only screen and (max-width: 700px){
  .story(width: 100%; float: none;}
 }

 NOTE: this is not just about width.  You could change anything at all
 defined in CSS at these different breakpoints.

 http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-mediaqueries/

 Tim




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Re: [css-d] Trying to get the big picture view on responsive design

[Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh]

Good responses. Thank you all.  This has helped me clarify the issues.

I have yet to design a site phones first, from the ground up. I'm currently
busy trying to retrofit a few older ones. I am discovering I want to send
different markup down the pipe--however--rather than media query CSS edits
to the same markup.

But that has to be done with server side codes that rely on a double GET
for the first request, so a cookie can be set. Then you can send fewer
images, different images and different markup, all matched with its own
custom CSS.


On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 1:17 PM, Tom Livingston tom...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 2:37 PM, Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh
 sandy.pittendr...@gmail.com wrote:
  I'm a beginner at responsive design.  I understand the mobile first
  argument which (at least from the client side) boils down to Design for
  the phone first and then use CSS media queries to vary floats and widths
 as
  needed, and to use javascript to add non-essential images on the fly, for
  larger monitors.
 
  However.  Intricately planning individual layouts for all possible
 devices
  seems error prone to me. If not a fool's errand.  New gizmos show up all
  the time.
 
  In my limited experience totally fluid layouts scale well or well enough
  between desktop and tablet.  The literature frequently faults fluid
 layouts
  for looking bad when the user drags the browser out to too wide.  But I
  don't see that as a problem.
 
  When I drag a fluid layout out to too wide I immediately pooch it back to
  narrower again, until it looks right.  I think that's what everybody
 does.
 
  So now (if fluid layout covers both desktop and tablet) all you have to
  worry about is one media query for phone size gadgets.  Removing all
 floats
  invariably makes a mess.  A better first draft is to make every block
  element float left.  Full width blocks still stack vertically. Narrower
  blocks sit side by side. A small amount of custom tuning from that point
 on
  is usually all it takes. Or at least so it seems.  I am new at this.
 
  I'll skip over server-side device detection for now. Although that seems
  like the most powerful technology--if detail-oriented micro-managed
 layout
  really is the goal.
 
  Does anybody want to argue against that big picture view?  Or amend it
  some, for the benefit of a beginner?
 


 Fluid/flexible layouts are, IMO, best. Like you mention, new devices
 are coming out all the time. Percentage width on your structure help
 you cover all the varying widths. Start mobile first, and adjust
 layout with breakpoints when the *content* requires it. Sometimes a
 single column is all you need up to 600px wide or so. I generally use
 3-4 breakpoints, adding in others as need to fine-tune widths or # of
 columns, etc.



 --

 Tom Livingston | Senior Front-End Developer | Media Logic |
 ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com




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Re: [css-d] The Simpsons in CSS

[Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh]

At first glance I think these animations are totally cool. And then I start
to think they're a bit like text blink on steriods.  A changing line in
the sixth place means real world caution is advised


On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 8:23 PM, Alan Gresley a...@css-class.com wrote:

 On 13/11/2013 5:14 AM, COM wrote:

 This is cool and all, but…seriously, is CSS being touted as an
 illustration tool?
 Am I missing a concept here?

 I am very impressed by the samples shown…

 John


 I have used CSS to demonstrate how CSS works or may work.


 This demos show how 'transform-origin' can be used. Imagine Bart tumbling
 over and over or cartwheeling. :-)

 http://css-class.com/test/css/3/2d-animation/box-turning-on-egde2.htm


 This demo shows how gradients could be theoretically be animated (only
 possible by using element() which only works in Firefox~Gecko).

 http://css-class.com/test/css/3/image/element-gradient-
 rotate-animation1.htm


 This demo shows how element() could be used (only works in Firefox~Gecko).

 http://css-class.com/test/css/3/image/element-water-
 background-movement1.htm







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 http://css-3d.org/
 http://css-class.com/

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[css-d] Trying to get the big picture view on responsive design

[Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh]

I'm a beginner at responsive design.  I understand the mobile first
argument which (at least from the client side) boils down to Design for
the phone first and then use CSS media queries to vary floats and widths as
needed, and to use javascript to add non-essential images on the fly, for
larger monitors.

However.  Intricately planning individual layouts for all possible devices
seems error prone to me. If not a fool's errand.  New gizmos show up all
the time.

In my limited experience totally fluid layouts scale well or well enough
between desktop and tablet.  The literature frequently faults fluid layouts
for looking bad when the user drags the browser out to too wide.  But I
don't see that as a problem.

When I drag a fluid layout out to too wide I immediately pooch it back to
narrower again, until it looks right.  I think that's what everybody does.

So now (if fluid layout covers both desktop and tablet) all you have to
worry about is one media query for phone size gadgets.  Removing all floats
invariably makes a mess.  A better first draft is to make every block
element float left.  Full width blocks still stack vertically. Narrower
blocks sit side by side. A small amount of custom tuning from that point on
is usually all it takes. Or at least so it seems.  I am new at this.

I'll skip over server-side device detection for now. Although that seems
like the most powerful technology--if detail-oriented micro-managed layout
really is the goal.

Does anybody want to argue against that big picture view?  Or amend it
some, for the benefit of a beginner?

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Re: [css-d] Flexbox order and first/last elements ...

[Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh]

I did some searching.  A combination of flexbox layout and srcset images
may (eventually) make responsive design a non-issue.  But in the meantime
there are browser version and prefixing issues to learn first, before
attempting to use any of it.  All of this looks promising (I'm a beginner,
not an expert).

IE 10 supports a prefixed syntax.  IE 11 is more standards compliant. But
what about the hoards of legacy XP users?  If the developer has to use IE
conditionals and then to write legacy CSS as well as prefixed and not
prefixed flexbox and srcset codes, what's the point?  Am I missing
something?  How can we get Microsoft to upgrade the old browsers--which
cause so much pain?

Or is there a current benefit--that's worth the effort--of using the new
stuff now?


On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 12:07 AM, Micky Hulse mickyhulse.li...@gmail.comwrote:

 Thanks for the reply/answer/code Philippe! It's much appreciated.

 On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 11:01 PM, Philippe Wittenbergh e...@l-c-n.com
 wrote:
  Directly? I don’t think so - all those (:first-*, :last-*)
 pseudo-classes target real elements in the DOM.

 Ah, that's good to know. Thanks for the clarification. :)

  But if you know that the e.g. second div in your layout will be moved to
 be visibly the first one, you can use the nth-child pseudo-class:
  div:nth-child(2) { background: lime }

 Great! I'll play with that.

 Have a nice weekend.

 Cheers,
 Micky

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[css-d] Implementing Responsive Design

[Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh]

Been reading Implementing Responsive Design by Tim Kadlec--which is
surprisingly well-written for an IT book.

Kadlec seems to recommend building a site's CSS from the cell phone
up--because some phones  still don't handle media queries.  In other words
he starts off by making his sites look good at the smallest resolution, and
then uses media queries (and sometimes Javascript) to add floats and what
ever else is needed to make the site look right as the view port increases.

This came as a surprise to me. I assumed everybody did the opposite: still
build for the desktop, then fiddle with media queries and viewport widths
to make the site acceptable for pads and phones too.

His approach does sometimes require Javascript, to loop through all the
block elements of a certain class and then add to add CSS as needed.

What are the group's thoughts about this approach?  Do you build from the
desktop down, or from the cell phone up?

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[css-d] Responsive Design resources

[Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh]

I'm a retired and slightly obsolete programmer who wants to jump back into
the game. There seems to be a lot of work remodeling websites so they work
well with cell phones, and also a lot of work moving toward cloud-based
everything.  I've got a good handle on the cloud based stuff.

But I'm clueless about cell phone CSS strategies. I learn quickly.
*What are some good online responsive design resources?  * (my first
attempts to find good resources yielded poorly-written jargon)


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Re: [css-d] Form layout patterns

[Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh]

Good Bradfrost link above. Thank you for that.

Here's a question. Since the great CSS Positioning leap forward we no
longer have to use nested tables for overall page layoutas did most of
us during the late 1990s.

But I do occasionally (still) use tables for laying out forms.  As long as
the tables are NOT nested inside the TD elements of a surrounding table,
and as long as it's an occasional tool only, I don't see the harm.

Violent prejudice against tables for layout is similar, in a way, to the
way C-programmers now rail against the infamous goto statement, which is
sometimes (break out of a doubly nested loop) useful and not
harmful.if kept under control, and if the goto points forward a
few lines of code only.

So. Is table layout now a sin no matter what? Even if not nested and used
only occasionally? .as for forms?



On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 8:19 AM, Tom Livingston tom...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 3:51 PM, Chris Williams ch...@clwill.com wrote:

  With a hat tip to Phillipe, I've just started building off this model,
 and
  I love it.  Nice responsive form shown in the form with left labels
  example.
 
  http://bradfrost.github.com/this-is-responsive/patterns.html
 
  I had been doing all tables for really tight control of forms, but this
  div-based approach seems to be working and allows the flexibility to do
  the side-by-side alignments and so on that you're mentioning.  While at
  the same time being responsive and tolerable down to the small form
 factor
  devices.
 
  Not that I'm there/done/complete, but I'm coding it all right now and it
  seems to be working.
 
  HTH,
  Chris
 
  On 1/29/13 12:00 PM, Tom Livingston tom...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  Hello all,
  
  Do any of you have a favorite form styling/structure pattern that you
  always use? I am particularly looking for a layout that has labels next
 to
  form fields as opposed to above them. Also, multiple fields on one line,
  like 'state' and 'zip' next to each other, with respective labels, all
 on
  one line.
  
  Every time I have to do a form I usually end up doing battle with some
  aspect of it. Getting the above mentioned scenario all on one line,
 having
  labels vertically centered on the height of the fields next to them, etc
  always seems to be a stumbling block for me. It never goes smoothly.
 I've
  tried several approaches, but each seems to have a downside.
  
  Off-list replies as necessary...
  
  --
  
 

 Thanks Chris



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 ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com
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Re: [css-d] CSS redesign: criticisms, comments and similar are welcome

[Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh]

I've been a fan of Romanato site for a long time.
Imagination ideas and ambition trump staid perfection any day.

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[css-d] dynamic CSS strategies

[Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh]

This is a CSS discussion list.  So programming issues are not on topic
here.
But if I keep my dynamic CSS question abstract enough I don't see why it
isn't a CSS issue as much as anything else.

Let's say my content management system is currently using a three column
layout, where a left side column of links is usually defined as 16% of
available width.
However,  if it turns out the current page has a larger than normal number
of navigation links,  I could (somehow) set the navigation column width to
25% so it could contain two vertical rows of clickable links, rather than
one vertical column.

What is the best way to do this?

My CMS codes could calculate the number of needed links before generating
any output, and then choose from any one of several hard-coded CSS files
depending on the total link count.  Or I could manipulate the browser's CSS
on the fly with Javascript and the DOM tree (which used to be a
browser-sniffing nightmare, the last time I tried it).  Are there any
alternate strategies I'm not aware of.simply because I'm an amateur
hacker and not a well-educated professional?



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Re: [css-d] PNG IE 6

[Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh]

Developers *used* to ask Can we stop supporting IE6 now?

Now we've reached the point were continuing to support IE6 is a mistake, and
bad for the community as a whole. The handful of lagging users who still
cling to this antiquated platform need a wake-up call. They need a slap on
the keyboard rather than a holding hand.

Continued support for IE6 is counterproductive--a bad strategy for the
community at large.


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Re: [css-d] HTMLdog website / Son of Suckerfish

[Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh]

Horizontally-oriented drop down menus often run into trouble when the
customer (months or years later) suddenly wants a few more top-level menu
blocks, and there isn't enough horizontal space to make it happen.

It doesn't take much CSS remodeling to make the same menus orient vertically
(and then have the sub-menus pop up left or right rather than below).  And
then you can add new top-level menu items--more or less forever-without
running out of screen real estate.

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[css-d] Two questions

[Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh]

http://montana-riverboats.com/Uploads/isitpossible.jpg shows a small crop
from a large layered psd file I got from a designer.

1)
The image above shows the top-left corner of the proposed page's main
content display division, which shows a semi-internal border that looks
like a fuzzy drop-shadow with rounded corners.  In a fixed-width layout I
could imagine making a background image that was
the size of the entire division, and then using that as the division's url
background.

But as a liquid layout, where all the top-level divisions are sized as a
percentage of the available view port, I don't see how that
(the above fuzzy drop shadow internal bordering) would be possible. It it
possible to make a fuzzy border like this in a liquid layout context?
How?

2)
Is it true that liquid layouts are the most portable device-wise? From large
high-res monitors to pads to smart phones?
Corollary: is it true that fixed-width layouts (perhaps a centered 780 pixel
wide wrapper division) are the least portable across
various devices?

...thank you


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[css-d] IE8 max-width, max-height behavior

[Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh]

I have a PHP-Sessions/Javascript-Ajax slideshow I use frequently. I can
point a URL at any arbitrary directory of server-side images to produce a
rotating slideshow,
without any hard-coded image names in the client-side Javascript. I set the
height and width of a division for showing the images. Some images may be
larger than the division size, so I set a max-width and max-height for
slideshow images.

For all browsers except IE, if an image is x% wider than than max-width, the
browser reduces both width and height by x%, which preservers the original
aspect ratio. However,  IE8 will (seems to anyway) reduce a width to
max-width without also adjusting height, if the original height was not
greater than max-height. So on IE8 my slideshow show sometimes displays
skewed images, where the original aspect ratio has been annoyingly altered.
 Is this fixable?

#showdiv
   {
 width: 333px;
 height: 250px;
 margin: 0 auto;
 padding: 0;
 overflow: hidden;
   }

#showdiv img { max-width: 333px; max-height: 250px;}



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Re: [css-d] HTML5 and CSS3

[Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh]

This may be off-topic in a CSS list.
But the emperor's new HTML5 clothes (it seems to me) are web sockets.

Only Chrome supports them right now? Is that true?  But all browsers will
before long.
And then the awkward XMLHttpRequest will be gone forever.

Web application programming will suddenly be oh so much easier...so much
more like real application programming--where you can call for data and
expect
to get it right now.  That will blow the doors off the current web site
status quo.

Web sockets patched together with a drag and drop mechanism plus
a 3D graphics library, could, for instance, mean Google Sketchup  would
no longer be a windows binary download. You could run it any HTML5 browser.

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[css-d] can CSS constitute an HTML error?

[Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh]

I found the following on the net:

*Content model*

Generally, block-level elements may contain inline
elements and other block-level elements. *Generally, inline elements may
contain
only data and other inline elements.* Inherent in this structural
distinction
is the idea that block elements create “larger” structures than inline
elements.

I interpret that to mean inline elements may not contain block elements.

But with CSS and the display attribute we can change display from inline to
block, or versa visa, for any element.  So, if my CSS says b
style=display: block; xx /b, is that an error of any kind? And if so,
it it an HTML error or a CSS error.  I tried to look this up W3.org, but I'm
going to have to work on those grammar-like specifications.  They are not
easy for beginners to read.

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[css-d] Debugging IE

[Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh]

I have been using http://ipinfo.info/netrenderer/index.php for hacking IE6
and IE7
into submission.

In general I develop on linux with Chrome. Then check appearance on Firefox
and Safari in Mac,
which (usually but not always) look much the same.  I have IE8 running on an
old XP box.
So I tehn use my own Windows box to check IE8.
At that point I use netrender to test IE7 and IE6.  Those two almost always
require adjustments, or conditional statements.

But I just noticed today the visual output I get at netrender for IE8 does
not match the display I get when running IE8 directly, on XP box (whose
browser has
been updated to IE8).   So that makes me wonder if netrenderer is worth
anything at all.

I could try to set up virtual OS instances with vmware. Perhaps that's my
next step.
But now I wonder if that output will be reliable.
Perhaps a developer really needs multiple boxes, each with its own
OS.  What is your take?

also, I (think) I have noticed IE6 on old low-resolution laptops
sometimes
looks substantially different than IE6 running on an XP box plugged in to
a high-resolution monitor. So perhaps a person needs an N cubed testing
routine:  N-OS systems times N-resolutions times N-browsers.

What is the professional debugging way proceed?

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Re: [css-d] text-shadow

[Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh]

Ok. I typed at the keyboard too soon yesterday and said *text-shadow* seemed
to work in IE8
when it does not.

Further, if I validate my css as CSS3 there are no reported errors (even
when using text-shadow)
Does this mean I can use text-shadow without side effect?
ie IE will ignore it while most of the others will use it?
Or is there some danger of tripping IE into quirks mode? (if I do continue
to use text-shadow)?

In HTML we can (and should) announce the HTML DOCTYPE. I'm not aware of any
similar
mechanism to announce CSS level. Is there one?

.bshadow {
 color : white;
text-shadow : #22 1px 1px 0
}



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[css-d] text-shadow

[Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh]

I put some experimental text-shadow codes in a css file that *seems* to work
as intended in
Firefox, Chrome and IE8. Not sure about IE7 just yet.

.bshadow
{
  color: white;
  text-shadow: #22 1px 1px 0px;
}

So, although the browsers seem to honor it, the w3c validator
complains: Property text-shadow doesn't exist in CSS level 2.1 but exists in
: #ff 1px 1px 0 #ff 1px 1px 0 #ff 1px 1px 0 #ff 1px 1px 0

I'm not sure what the issues are here.

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Re: [css-d] text-shadow

[Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh]

 If it's really working for you in IE8, we'd all really love to know how.



It probably isn't working on IE8.  I boot Microflaccid as infrequently as I
can get away with.
If it looks at all acceptable I usually breath a sigh of relief, take the
clothes
pin off my nose and KVM back to Linux or Mac.  Sorry for passing bad
information
on a holiday.

:-((

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[css-d] Three col faq

[Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh]

I'm just learning about CSS. So no pretensions here.

I want to make a liquid 3-column layout where the center column fills what
ever space is left after setting widths (as percents) for the left and right
columns.
I'd like to set a min-height on the center column--but I want to keep it
simple, so
I will go with the flow on left and right column heights.

Most of the three column templates I see on download sites have hideous
complexity,
due largely to worrying about setting equal heights for all three columns.
I'd like to keep it simple (and to worry about min-height on the center
column only).

Any examples out there anybody can point me to?

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[css-d] The holy grail

[Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh]

The holy grail is that place we'll all be to (soon, I think)
when we can finally stop worrying, thinking about and dealing
with IEsicks.

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[css-d] p.someclass:hover { ...change paragraph border }

[Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh]

At http://robopages.sourceforge.net/index.php?page=README.htm

is a page display governed by CSS that (in Firefox and Safari)
changes the border (from outset to inset) on any enclosing paragraph, when
ever
an enclosed link is hovered.  This makes the button-like link
look like it has been depressed. The border does not change
for IEsicks, however, which is not surprising. But it also does not
change for IE7.  It might change for IE8, but I haven't installed IE8 yet.
So does this hover technique work by accident, in Firefox/Safari?
Or is IE7 not standards compliant on this issue?

p.linkp
{
  background: #ff;
  padding: 0.5em;
  margin: 0.125em;
  width: 90%;
  border: 3px outset #cc;
}

a { text-decoration: none; margin: 0.25em; }
a { text-decoration: none; margin: 1em; }
a:hover{  text-decoration: underline; font-style: italic; font-weight: bold;
}
p.linkp:hover{  border: 3px inset #cc;  }


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Re: [css-d] p.someclass:hover { ...change paragraph border }

[Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh]

Quirks mode?
Interesting.
Maybe.
The code validates at w3c validator without errors.
Each page begins with:

!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN

html
 head
  titleRobopages.../title
  link rel=stylesheet href=dirLCSS.css
view-source:http://robopages.sourceforge.net/dirLCSS.css
type=text/css

 /head
 body
etc




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[css-d] javascript important?

[Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh]

Most desktop browsers have javascript turned on these days--flash too.
I don't know the real market share. But that might not be the important
issue.

 Search engines cannot follow links, pages or displays created with
javascript.
So, at the very least, you have to (also) include more manual and
traditional
ways to make the same displays. If your pages are invisible to Google,
then they are essentially invisible to everyone.



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