Re: [css-d] OT: What to do now Webdesign-l is gone

[Eric A. Meyer]

On 17 Aug 2017, at 17:50, Felix Miata wrote:

Maybe list-mom Eric would accept an expansion of this list's role, 
given the low

traffic level it's had for quite some time?


This is an interesting question.  css-d has been moderately more active 
than WD-L, but the traffic level is definitely lower.


I admit, I've thought about shuttering css-d.  But every time I think 
I'm getting close to that decision, a post or thread convinces me it's 
still valuable.  And with the huge CSS shifts now underway, from flexbox 
to grid to writing modes to a whole lot more, there's actually a 
stronger rationale to keep it around than there has been in a while.


Still, widening the scope is a bit tricky, given that the list is 
literally named to define its own scope.  This will take some pondering. 
 If anyone has ideas for how the list might redefine itself, or be more 
useful in general, however incremental or radical, please send them to 
me off-list-- we don't need to clutter up the list itself.



--
Eric A. Meyer - http://meyerweb.com/
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] td:nth-child(2) negation?

[Eric A. Meyer]

On 28 Jul 2017, at 2:46, Felix Miata wrote:

Can a :not be used to make td:nth-child(2) not applicable if the 
element that
the td is a second child of is a td subjected to a colspan? If so, 
how?


I confess to being a little bit confused here, because I read this as 
you asking about a 'td' that's a child of another 'td' and I don't think 
that's a thing.  Could you provide some markup samples to illustrate 
cases where you do and don't want selection to occur?



--
Eric A. Meyer - http://meyerweb.com/
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] CSS Grid Question

[Eric A. Meyer]

On 21 Jul 2017, at 14:18, Tom Livingston wrote:

Is it possible to style the rows and columns of a css grid - the grid 
itself?


   There's no way to say something like  '@column[2] {border: 1px 
solid;}' and thus directly style the grid components.  You have to 
assign some sort of element into the grid, and style that.



I have an upcoming layout that uses what looks like a tic-tac-toe
board - complete with the vertical and horizontal lines of said
tic-tac-toe board - with text/icon in each grid cell.


   You could certainly style the borders of the elements filling the 
grid cells to create this effect.  Alternatively, if you're going to be 
assigning element to every grid cell but they can rearrange, you can use 
what I call the "Attack of the Filler s" approach.  It would go 
something like this:



   (...all your content here...)
   
   


Then assign styles something like this for the  elements:

b#col {grid-column: 2; grid-row: 1 / -1; border: 1px solid gray; 
border-width: 0 1px;}
b#row {grid-column: 1 / -1; grid-row: 2; border: 1px solid gray; 
border-width: 1px 0;}


That would get you the tic-tac-toe grid.
   The drawback there is you could no longer rely on the grid's 
automatic content flow to fill in the content, because the  elements 
would be occupying cells.  If you explicitly assign the various pieces 
of content to their cells, then that's not a problem.  If you want to do 
this, but still want auto-flow into cells, you'd need to have the 
content and tic-tac-tow grids in separate elements, and then position 
one on top of the other.  Note that I don't necessarily mean 'position', 
though that could work.  You could grid a container of the two grids so 
as to put one grid on the other grid.. so, yes, you can have grids in 
your grid to grid a grid over a grid.

   I swear that made sense when I typed it.

--
Eric A. Meyer - http://meyerweb.com/
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] Pure CSS variables (no preprocessors)

[Eric A. Meyer]

On 18 May 2017, at 19:26, Reese wrote:


Wow, the formatting on that got clobbered. Will probably get clobbered
on this email also.

How long has that been happening?


Hard to say.  What formatting got clobbered?  You initial post didn't 
look mangled to me.



--
Eric A. Meyer - http://meyerweb.com/
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] vw and vh units -- how does one learn of developments in the CSS spec. such as these ?

[Eric A. Meyer]

On 5 Apr 2017, at 22:52, Philippe Wittenbergh wrote:

On Apr 6, 2017, at 9:05 AM, Karl DeSaulniers <k...@designdrumm.com> 
wrote:


Curious though. As the page did not explain, what is "ch"?
Character height?


Here is the spec text about `ch`:
https://drafts.csswg.org/css-values-3/#ch

As far as I can remember, the `ch` doesn’t really stand for 
anything, and I don’t think there is an equivalent in the 
typographic history. IOW it is an arbitrary name.


I wrote about this back in 2012, in a short article I think is pretty 
okay, but the real gold is in the comments from readers, who as usual 
know way more than me: 
<http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2012/05/15/defining-ch/>



--
Eric A. Meyer - http://meyerweb.com/
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] An Example of Gradients for a Curtain

[Eric A. Meyer]

On 17 Mar 2017, at 22:07, Karl DeSaulniers wrote:

I know you don't have to use background-image: , you can use 
background: too for linear-gradient:.
Was there a preference to using background-image? Was it for the 
repeat-x property?


   At the time, the value syntax for 'background' that rolls up all the 
background sizing and positioning and so on was either not well 
supported, or I hadn't wrapped my brain around it.  (Still not entirely 
sure I have.)  Or maybe I thought breaking each bit out into a separate 
property would make it slightly easier to follow, for anyone viewing 
source.  My memory of things from that far back is regrettably 
splintered.



--
Eric A. Meyer - http://meyerweb.com/
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] An Example of Gradients for a Curtain

[Eric A. Meyer]

On 17 Mar 2017, at 21:33, Crest Christopher wrote:


Eric, the curtain was all CSS ?


   Mine was, yes.  The original, the one I was imitating, used PNGs.


If so how did you create the taper effect on the curtains ?


   Not sure exactly what you mean by a "taper effect", but here's the 
CSS:


 background-image:
linear-gradient(
0deg,
rgba(255,128,128,0.25),
rgba(255,128,128,0) 75%
),
linear-gradient(
89deg,
transparent,
transparent 30%,
#510A0E 35%,
#510A0E 40%,
#61100F 43%,
#B93F3A 50%,
#4B0408 55%,
#6A0F18 60%,
#651015 65%,
#510A0E 70%,
#510A0E 75%,
rgba(255,128,128,0) 80%,
transparent
),
linear-gradient(
92deg,
#510A0E,
#510A0E 20%,
#61100F 25%,
#B93F3A 40%,
#4B0408 50%,
#6A0F18 70%,
#651015 80%,
#510A0E 90%,
#510A0E
)   
;
background-size:
auto,
300px 100%,
109px 100%;
background-repeat: repeat-x;


So it's three sized background images (gradients being images) at 
slightly different angles.  I seem to recall fiddling with angles until 
I got ones I liked.
   These days, I would probably use 'repeating-linear-gradient()' 
instead of using 'background-size' and 'background-repeat' to pattern 
normal linear gradients, since that would remove any concerns about 
weird seams at the repetition points.  And now that I think about it, it 
would be relatively straightforward to drop a grayscale filter on the 
above CSS, sample the resulting grayscale values, and build the 
light/dark-on-a-background-color example I described earlier in the 
thread.  You know, if I didn't feel like trying to calculate the light 
values of those colors.  Hmmm...



--
Eric A. Meyer - http://meyerweb.com/
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] An Example of Gradients for a Curtain

[Eric A. Meyer]

On 17 Mar 2017, at 15:04, John Beales wrote:


@Eric: That's exactly it. I was also able to turn up the similar part
of your Colors, Backgrounds, & Gradients book from 2015, (maybe it's a
pre-release section of your upcoming book?).


   As a matter of fact, it is!


Do you remember if there's a formula for figuring out the color stops
to use in the gradients, or is sampling a photo of a curtain the best
way? I'd like to be able to change the color of the curtain easily in
a Sass mixin.


   I don't know if there is, to be honest.  The colors I used were 
intentionally chosen to mimic the colors in the original Cicada 
Principle example 
(<https://www.sitepoint.com/examples/primes/index2.xhtml>), so I was 
just working off an existing thing.
   I haven't tried this myself, but my feeling is that you could define 
highlight and shadow gradients using rgba() or hsla(), whichever you 
prefer, and then put a solid background color beneath them, which is the 
thing you change.  So, something similar to this:


background-image: linear-gradient(91deg, transparent, rgba(0,0,0,0.25) 
70%, transparent),
	linear-gradient(88deg, rgba(255,255,255,0.1), transparent 90%, 
rgba(255,255,255,0.05);}

background-color: maroon;
background-size: 15px 100%, 23px 100%;
background-repeat: repeat-x;

...except with three or four gradients, and almost certainly 
better-constructed gradients than those, which I basically just made up 
on the spot and didn't check to see how they looked.
   I believe gradients can be animated, but working out how to do that 
in a semi-convincing manner would be a challenge.  I'd love to see what 
you come up with!



--
Eric A. Meyer - http://meyerweb.com/
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] An Example of Gradients for a Curtain

[Eric A. Meyer]

> On Mar 17, 2017, at 13:16, John Beales  wrote:
> 
> I remember seeing some demos a couple of years back of using CSS
> gradients to make a curtain/drape, but my Google skills aren't turning
> up anything, so I'm hoping the list's collective memory and/or
> bookmarks will help.

You might be thinking of http://meyerweb.com/eric/css/tests/circadients.html 
(almost five years old now!).

__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] An Example of Gradients for a Curtain

[Eric A. Meyer]

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 17, 2017, at 13:16, John Beales  wrote:
> 
> I remember seeing some demos a couple of years back of using CSS
> gradients to make a curtain/drape, but my Google skills aren't turning
> up anything, so I'm hoping the list's collective memory and/or
> bookmarks will help.

You might be thinking of http://meyerweb.com/eric/css/tests/circadients.html 
(almost five years old now!).

__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] align 4 divs horizontally

[Eric A. Meyer]

On 29 Mar 2016, at 19:41, Larry Martell wrote:

On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 7:27 PM, Tom Livingston <tom...@gmail.com> 
wrote:


On Tuesday, March 29, 2016, Larry Martell <larry.mart...@gmail.com> 
wrote:


The bootstrap class col-xs-6, which the charts are in is float left.
None have clear set.


If I'm not mistaken, col-xs-6 is extra small 6 column width. Can that 
width

be too small? Can you over ride it?


I removed that class then I got the 4 charts vertically aligned. I
tried adding display=inline-block but that didn't change anything.


I'm not closely familiar with Bootstrap, but your use case seems like 
one that flexbox would handle extremely well.  Something as simple as 
this might work:


   div.col-xs-10 {display: flex; align-items: center;}

It's possible you might have to unset a lot of Bootstrap CSS to prevent 
interference, but hopefully not.


--
Eric A. Meyer - http://meyerweb.com/
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] Flexbox Fallback to Justify Nav Items with Equal Spacing

[Eric A. Meyer]

The evolt admins said the message came in, but was auto-discarded.  
Please try again, but this time don't cc: the list admin address.  I 
think Mailman assumes that sort of thing to be spam (or maybe I set up a 
spam filter along those lines).  Hopefully it'll work this time!



On 30 Dec 2015, at 21:20, Rick Gordon wrote:

[I sent this yesterday, but it hasn't gotten posted. Trying again, 
along with a cc to the list-admin. I still don't see any of the 
December posts in the public list archives, so I'm wondering if things 
are still acting screwy.]


---

On [http://www.theshelterblog.com](http://www.theshelterblog.com), (a 
WordPress site) I've set up the top navigation with flexbox CSS, so 
that it justifies to the content width, with equal spacing between 
menu  elements. The navigation changes from relative to a fixed 
stickyNav, when the menu would move out of view (on home, archive, and 
search pages).


Before I updated WordPress to 4.4, I had it all working without 
flexbox, where the  was set to text-align:justify; and I had a 
dummy last menu item that was classed to have 100% width and no 
height. For reasons I'm not sure about, the update from 4.3 to 4.4 
broke it, and all the menu items were butted up against one another to 
the left.


So then, after banging my head against a wall for a while with no 
working solution, I revamped it with flex code, as such:

#menu-header-navigation { /*  */
    width:100%;
    position:relative;
    list-style:none;
    padding:4px 0 5px 3px;
    text-align:center; /* So now fallback centers, with separation 
effected by transparent borders  */

    display:inline-block; /* final fallback */
    display:-moz-box;
    display:-ms-flexbox;
    display:-webkit-flex;
    display:flex;
    -webkit-box-pack:space-between;
    -moz-box-pack:space-between;
    -ms-flex-pack:space-between;
    -webkit-justify-content:space-between;
    justify-content:space-between;
    -webkit-box-align:stretch;
    -moz-box-align:stretch;
    -ms-flex-align:stretch;
    -webkit-align-items:stretch;
    align-items:stretch;
    flex-wrap:nowrap;
    align-items:stretch;
    flex-grow:1;
    }

.sf-menu li {
    display:inline-block;
    position:relative;
    padding:2px 0;
    }
    .no-flexbox .sf-menu li { /* .no-flexbox being assigned to 
html by Modernizr */
        border-left:.5em solid transparent; /* Could probably 
be margin at this point, having removed other margin assignments */

        border-right:.5em solid transparent;
        }


I had tried suggestions (such as at 
[http://jsfiddle.net/csswizardry/zfSt4/](http://jsfiddle.net/csswizardry/zfSt4/)) 
of setting display:table; table-layout:fixed for  , and 
display:table-cell for the s, but it created unequal spaces 
between the s and caused overlaps when reducing the window width.


I no longer have the working 4.3 installation available, though I 
could restore it to a staging site if needed.


I'd appreciate any guidance. The centered fallback is OK, but I'd 
really prefer an equally spaced, fully justified look.



___
RICK GORDON
[http://www.theshelterblog.com](http://www.theshelterblog.com)




--
Eric A. Meyer - http://meyerweb.com/
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

[css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[Eric A. Meyer]

Hi, everyone,

   So apparently the list software died back in October, and none of us 
really noticed until this month.  Or, if people noticed, nobody 
mentioned it until this month.  It took a while to get in touch with 
someone who could get the software restarted, but I'm told it's back up. 
 If you're reading this, then yes, it's back up.
   This hiatus and its lack of observance has led me to wonder about 
the utility of css-discuss, and whether it needs to continue.  There are 
a lot of other venues for discussing CSS these days, and most of the 
reason for this list existing-- to help people figure out how CSS 
worked, and fix problems-- is covered much more compellingly by sites 
like StackOverflow.  The resources that used to support css-d, like the 
public archive and the wiki, have fallen into disuse or disrepair over 
the years.  In general, there's a faded feeling here, at least for me.

   Thus, I'm now pondering three courses of action:

   1. Shut down the list.  To all good things, etc.  This obviously 
abandons those who still prize having a mailing list, but that number 
seems very small.  Almost all the discussion in the months leading up to 
the hiatus was conducted between a small number of subscribers.  Of 
course, a new list could be started by someone else.
   2. Hand the list off to someone else, to guide as they see fit.  
This involves the very difficult task of finding someone who's 
interested, and making a good choice.  This is the least appealing of 
the three, honestly, because of the possibility of getting things wrong.
   3. Convert the list from "Practical discussions of CSS and its use" 
to more general discussion about anything CSS-related.  That would 
include theoretical musings, discussion of what CSS should or shouldn't 
be, where it should go in the future, the general theory of CSS, and so 
on.  I'm less inclined to go this route, as there are other places to 
grapple with the deeper issues of CSS (like www-style, not to mention 
blogs and social media).


At this point, perhaps due to pride and ego but perhaps simply due to 
feeling that the time has come, I'm leaning toward option 1.  January 
24, 2016, will be the 14th anniversary of the list.  That leaves a month 
to either settle on a different course of action, or else to plan a 
shutdown.
   If anyone has strong feelings that it should be one of the other two 
options, or a fourth option I didn't list, feel free to let me know 
off-list.  I may not be able to respond to every message, but I will 
read them all.  I expect to make a final decision on or before January 
10, 2016.  Whatever I decide, I'll announce it here.


--
Eric A. Meyer - http://meyerweb.com/
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: Automatic Reply: Re: css-d Digest, Vol 147, Issue 2

[Eric A. Meyer]

On 20 Feb 2015, at 22:25, pe...@alphastate.co.uk wrote:

I will be out of the office on leave until Monday 23rd February with 
no access to email or calls.
If your query is urgent please use the contact channels on our 
website. Otherwise, I will respond to your query as soon as possible.


Folks, this is a good reminder to always exclude mailing lists from your 
autoresponder.  That way, you don't end up blasting over seven thousand 
people around the world with news that you're out of the office, and you 
also don't risk being booted from said lists for cluttering all those 
inboxes.


--
Eric A. Meyer - http://meyerweb.com/
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

[css-d] ADMIN: erroneous subscription

[Eric A. Meyer]

On 7 Oct 2014, at 10:16, John E. Cavanaugh wrote:

Help! I am not subscribed - these emails started coming at random - 
how do I unsubscribe?


   I have unsubscribed Dr. Cavanaugh's account and contacted him to let 
him know it's done, and to offer my apologies.  In like vein, my 
apologies to you all for the list noise.


I don't know how he was added to the list without consent, because the 
list is specifically configured to avoid that scenario, but apparently 
he was.  With luck, it's the only such case, but if there's anyone else 
in a similar situation, please contact me for removal from the list if 
the unsubscribe link (see below) does not work for you.


--
Eric A. Meyer - http://meyerweb.com/
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: The notorious email

[Eric A. Meyer]

On 28 Apr 2014, at 20:05, Karl DeSaulniers wrote:

I just got that email everyone was talking about with the girl pics in 
it.


This is the email that sent it to me.. Clara Anne 
claram...@hotmail.com


Might as well start a list and start removing them huh?


   The problem with these messages is the sending addresses aren't list 
members.  I've looked through the headers of messages sent to me by 
affected members, and none of the addresses or servers listed in the 
headers match up with the membership list.  The messages are being sent 
directly, not through the list, so I don't think there's anything I can 
do block them at the server level.
   It's most likely that someone on the list has a machine that has 
botnet malware sitting on it, replying to incoming mail by sending 
forged-sender messages through third-party servers.  Or else someone 
subscribed to the list for the sole purpose of doing this intentionally, 
which comes to much the same thing.
   So, this is a good time for everyone to update their anti-virus 
software and otherwise make sure that their machines are free of 
malware.  Short of that, I'm not sure what can be done.  I'm certainly 
happy to look at any evidence people can glean regarding the source of 
the messages, because I'd like to stop them too.


--
Eric A. Meyer - http://meyerweb.com/
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: Chrome Extension to PSD

[Eric A. Meyer]

On 12 Mar 2014, at 0:50, Crest Christopher wrote:

I'm looking for a Chrome Extension to save my design as a PSD to 
complete it ?


   This doesn't appear to have anything to do with CSS, so if anyone 
has suggestions for Crest, please make them via direct mail, as in off 
the list.  Thanks!



--
Eric A. Meyer - http://meyerweb.com/
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] Interesting read

[Eric A. Meyer]

On 13 Jan 2014, at 18:45, Karl DeSaulniers wrote:


Just thought I'd share some reading with everyone.
It's a comparison of javascript based animation to css.
Might raise your eyebrow a little... :P

http://css-tricks.com/myth-busting-css-animations-vs-javascript/


   Thanks, Karl!  I thought it was quite interesting, and I also 
enjoyed this article from Christian Heilmann, which takes a different 
(though not completely opposite) view: 
http://christianheilmann.com/2014/01/13/myth-busting-mythbusted/.  See 
also Val Head's tweet about end-of-animation events: 
https://twitter.com/vlh/status/423088470781726722.


--
Eric A. Meyer - http://meyerweb.com/
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: [OT] CSS/HTML Work Needed

[Eric A. Meyer]

Hello all,

   Just popping in to remind everyone that job postings (either seeking 
or offering) are contrary to the list policies, so please don't post 
them.  If you're in the market to get or to give work, I recommend 
Authentic Jobs (http://authenticjobs.com/), which has lots of great 
listings that can be filtered by type of work, skills of interest, and 
geographic region.  They also list remote jobs, in case you're looking 
for work in a place that doesn't have many jobs available.
   Anyway, a belated Happy New Year to one and all, and thanks as 
always for your patience with my sometimes tardy admin posts.


--
Eric A. Meyer - http://meyerweb.com/
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] Start at the bottom! (was Front page breaking in IE8, maybe 9 too)

[Eric A. Meyer]

On 9 Oct 2013, at 7:06, MiB wrote:


What's up with the top posting…?


   I'll start by saying that, as you can tell here, I'm personally a 
fan of interleaved replies as opposed to top-posting, and I even 
indicated that preference in the list policies 
(http://css-discuss.org/policies.html).  Note, however, that the 
policies do not REQUIRE one reply style or another.  They simply make 
clear a preference, and the possibility of actual administrative action 
if a poster does not trim quoted material, whatever their reply style.
   In the past, I sent people offline notes asking them to trim their 
quoted material, but I have not been doing this of late as I concentrate 
on pressing family matters.  It's interesting that top-posting and lack 
of quote trimming has also risen of late, but of course correlation is 
not causation.  I'll try to resume my past habit of offline notes, but 
cannot credibly commit to a consistent campaign; see previous comment 
about family matters.
   Please note that this thread should NOT become an argument about 
proper reply styles.  It's as fruitless as tabs vs. spaces, Mac vs. 
Windows, etc., etc., etc, and we've always striven to avoid such Holy 
Wars on this list because they're inevitably more noise than signal.
   All I ask is that, whatever your reply style, you trim the quoted 
material to include only that which is relevant and absolutely necessary 
to your reply, and no more.  Thank you.


--
Eric A. Meyer - http://meyerweb.com/
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: Start at the bottom!

[Eric A. Meyer]

On 9 Oct 2013, at 15:48, Theresa Jennings wrote:

Can this now be considered off-topic and not germane to the art and 
science of CSS? Let's all get back to coding, k?


   130% agreed, and in fact I said in my reply this morning:

Please note that this thread should NOT become an argument about 
proper reply styles.  It's as fruitless as tabs vs. spaces, Mac vs. 
Windows, etc., etc., etc, and we've always striven to avoid such Holy 
Wars on this list because they're inevitably more noise than signal.


   And then it went and became that.  Perhaps I erred in not explicitly 
stating THIS IS OFF TOPIC, so there, I've done it.  Whatever the case, 
it stops now, either by list members respecting the community or by 
server-enforced fiat.  I would very much prefer the former.
   The policies regarding reply styles and quote-trimming are what they 
are, I will try to be better about reminding people offline to trim 
wasteful overage, and Holy Wars are still always off-topic.  If 
necessary, I will go add this to the official list of Holy Wars on the 
wiki, but I hope it won't be necessary.


--
Eric A. Meyer  -  Co-founder, An Event Apart
The conference for people who make web sites
http://aneventapart.com/
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] Font-size affecting line-height?

[Eric A. Meyer]

On 1 Oct 2013, at 21:06, Kyle Sessions wrote:

I've come across some really strange behavior when trying to mix 
multiple
font-sizes within a single block element. I've built an example page 
here:


http://kage23.com/line-height.html

Basically, it seems like I'm getting an extra pixel of height and I 
can't

track down how or why.


Believe it or not, this is expected behavior.  It arises from the 
interaction of 'vertical-align' and 'line-height'.  I created some 
images to illustrate what's happening:


http://meyerweb.com/eric/css/discuss/examples/kyle-lineheight.html

(Note the images are twice the size of the original test case, in order 
to make things a little more obvious.)


In #1, you can see how line-height is applied to the boxes in the line 
of text.  The orange-backed bits of text have pink line height space 
above and below.  What's happening there is that the difference between 
the 'font-size' and the 'line-height' is split in half and added to the 
top and bottom.  So 24px 'line-height' minus 16px 'font-size' is 8px, 
which is split into two 4px chunks.  That adds 4px above and 4px below 
the font.


The cyan span in #1 doesn't have any pink because the difference between 
its 'font-size' (24px) and the 'line-height' (still 24px) is zero, so 
there's nothing to apply above and below.


The text boxes don't align, though, because the text is all vertically 
aligned on the baseline, but the baseline in English (and many, many 
other languages) is not vertically centered on the letterforms.  It's 
much closer to the bottom of letterforms than the top.  So the boxes, 
though each is 24px tall, don't have the same amount of 
letter-and-line-height space above and below the baseline, and thus when 
their baselines are aligned the boxes don't line up.


In #2, the overall line box has been filled in with a 
cornflower-blue-like color, just to make clear that the line box 
encloses all of the boxes within it.  In this one-line case, that 
overall line box defines the content box of the element.  You can see 
how it fills in above the orange text but below the cyan text.


If you want crawl really deep into the inline layout weeds, feel free to 
head over to http://meyerweb.com/eric/css/inline-format.html.  Please 
note that I am not liable for any glazed eyes or migraine headaches that 
may result.


Now for a couple of caveats.  The first is that different fonts have 
different baseline placement with respect to their letterforms, so just 
because your testcase shows an extra 1px of height, with another font 
face there might be two or three or five extra pixels of height.


The second caveat is that even if the same font face is in use, font 
rendering is dependent on both browsers and operating systems, and can 
vary by a pixel or two from one user agent to another.  For example, I 
saw the boxes in Philippe's testcase as being 16px and 24px tall, even 
though he saw 17px and 25px.  On the other hand, once I filled the line 
height and overall line box colors into my example images, I got an 
overall box that indicates a 26px-tall line box.  In other words, it 
shows an extra 2px of height, not the 1px you saw, Kyle.


This stuff happens with fonts.  It isn't random or inexplicable, but 
like I say, I don't have anything like the knowledge required to 
explicate it.  All I know is that, even with my limited grasp of how 
text lines get constructed, I'm faintly astonished that pages full of 
text get rendered at all.


Anyway, hopefully all this has illuminated some of the corners of this 
topic (plus your testcase) without damaging too much of your sanity.



--
Eric A. Meyer - http://meyerweb.com/
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] Two classes, two conflicting rules, which wins ?

[Eric A. Meyer]

On 1 Oct 2013, at 16:50, Robert A. Rosenberg wrote:

So you are saying that in a 'class=c2 c1' case, it scans the CSS 
defs, sees .c1 and applies it, keeps going and sees .c2 which 
overrides the c1 width?


IOW: The order that you list the class in the HTML is ignored and only 
the order that the classes are defined in the CSS defs counts.


That's correct.

(Assuming the selectors have the same origin, weight, AND specificity, 
that is; in that case, then the order the rules are listed in the CSS 
matters.  If two selectors don't have the same origin, weight, OR 
specificity, then the order they're listed in the CSS is irrelevant.)



--
Eric A. Meyer - http://meyerweb.com/
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] Two classes, two conflicting rules, which wins ?

[Eric A. Meyer]

On 2 Oct 2013, at 10:43, Greg Gamble wrote:


OK, I'll bite :-)

What is  origin, weight, and  specificity?  I hear the terms and I 
think I get it ... but, to hear it from the Master would be great.


Well, the Master isn't available (something about a drum circle and 
looking for a police box key), but I'll take a swing at it.  The details 
are here:


http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/cascade.html#cascade

Here's what I meant:

* Origin -- whether the rule comes from the author, the user, or the 
user agent.  There's a precedence order defined in the specification, so 
that (for example) author rules always override user agent rules.  
That's why you saying 'strong {font-weight: normal;}' removes the 
boldface treatment even if there's a user agent rule that says something 
like 'h1 strong {font-weight: bolder;}'.


* Weight -- called importance in CSS 2.1.  If a rule has been given 
'!important' then it wins over any non-important rule, period, end of 
story.  Two conflicting rules that have the same weight (or importance), 
and thus have their conflict resolved through other means.


* Specificity -- how specific a selector is, which is figured out by 
counting the pieces and coming up with a value.  Higher specificity 
trumps lower specificity, assuming the origin and weight are the same: 
thus two normal-weight author rules that conflict are resolved using 
selector specificity.


…and if, after all that, two rules are still in conflict, THEN the 
order they're written in matters.
   There's a little bit more to the story, once you take into account 
inheritance and the lack of a notion of element proximity in the 
document tree and so forth, but those are the core bits.


--
Eric A. Meyer - http://meyerweb.com/
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: Gggfcnjsheyl beggigpk. Nnkkknkkkn.

[Eric A. Meyer]

On 14 Jan 2000, at 18:55, Carl Peterson wrote:

Ccgeg(1(!(eg(:efffvdgv),?1sfgbhxc  .)$hvhjFjfhgfzjfgxhsxdffxxfc 
ujirr

ffnxmcgddhhh

BhhgucuvvvcvvgghDjhc jbvvhicg


Sorry, everyone; I only just now saw this and have taken the usual 
action.  And while I was tempted to ROT13 my reply in order to attempt 
some level of visual consistency, I decided to refrain.  This time.


--
Eric A. Meyer - http://meyerweb.com/
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: automated response

[Eric A. Meyer]

Folks, please let John's mistake serve as a reminder that when you set 
an email autoresponder, you should exempt any mailing lists to which you 
belong, lest you run afoul of a list's community policies and suffer the 
consequences.  The More You Know™!


--
Eric A. Meyer - http://meyerweb.com/
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

[css-d] ADMIN: Just testing

[Eric A. Meyer]

Hi folks,

   Normally I frown heavily on people posting test messages to the 
list, but given that I've had reports of bounces, seen some odd 
behaviors in related services, and no traffic in a couple of weeks, I 
felt I should test the list.  If this gets through to the list members, 
please ignore it entirely, and accept my apologies for the unfortunate 
noise.


--
Eric A. Meyer - http://meyerweb.com/
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: Just testing

[Eric A. Meyer]

On 12 Aug 2013, at 10:52, Eric A. Meyer wrote:

Normally I frown heavily on people posting test messages to the list, 
but given that I've had reports of bounces, seen some odd behaviors in 
related services, and no traffic in a couple of weeks, I felt I should 
test the list.  If this gets through to the list members, please 
ignore it entirely, and accept my apologies for the unfortunate noise.


So it turns out that the Mailman server software crashed at almost 
exactly the same time I was going through an unexpected, forced upgrade 
of my laptop and e-mail client.  In all the upheaval, I completely 
missed that the list had fallen completely silent.  The server's been 
restarted, and mail is flowing once again.  Sorry about this lapse, 
folks.  I'll do my best to keep a closer eye on the list activity from 
now on.


--
Eric A. Meyer - http://meyerweb.com/
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] what should go in html{ } ?

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 22:02 -0400 6/27/13, Chris Williams wrote:


Show me, with an example, a concrete difference in the behavior.


   Well, since you asked so nicely.

   diva href=urlgoeshereLink/a/div

In CSS terms, the user agent applies a style of 'a:link {color: 
blue;}'.  (Where 'blue' really means $USER_PREFERENCE but CSS doesn't 
have variables.  Yet.  We'll stick with blue since that's the most 
common $USER_PREFERENCE.)  This overrides whatever color it might 
otherwise have inherited from its parent element, which in this very 
specific is probably an inherited value that traces back to another 
user agent rule.

   Now, I can explicitly write:

   div {color: red;}

...and the link will continue to be blue.  That's because the 
inherited value of 'red' has no specificity-- again, not zero, but 
none at all-- and is overridden by the user agent's assigned color of 
'blue', which does carry specificity.

   Then again, I can write:

   * {color: red;}

...and the link will be red, despite the specificity of the universal 
selector being zero, not none.  That's because the color value is 
directly assigned by the author, and author styles beat user agent 
styles even when the author style has a lower specificity.  (Assuming 
they are both of normal weight, anyway.  If not, things get a touch 
ambiguous under CSS2 and a touch funky under the latest draft of the 
relevant CSS3 module.)


--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] what should go in html{ } ?

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 20:33 +0300 6/28/13, Jukka K. Korpela wrote:

2013-06-28 19:34, Eric A. Meyer wrote:


 In CSS terms, the user agent applies a style of 'a:link {color:
 blue;}'.  (Where 'blue' really means $USER_PREFERENCE but CSS doesn't
 have variables.  Yet.  We'll stick with blue since that's the most
 common $USER_PREFERENCE.)


Modern browsers apply a:link { color: #ee }, which is also the 
expected rendering according to HTML5 drafts. I was surprised at 
noticing this, though the change makes sense in my opinion. One of 
the reasons for overriding such defaults has been that the default 
blue is too bright, too different from normal text color.


   Ah, yes!  Good point.  I'd forgotten about that shift.  Thanks for 
the reminder.


--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] what should go in html{ } ?

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 14:28 -0400 6/27/13, Chris Williams wrote:


Pfffttt Semantics.


   It's actually not just semantics, so the dismissive tone is 
misplaced.  Inherited values have a different place in the cascade 
than do directly-assigned values, regardless of whether they come 
from the author, the reader, or the user agent (browser).  Inherited 
values have no specificity-- not zero, none at all.  Assigned values 
always have some level of specificity.


--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: Zach Byrd

[Eric A. Meyer]

...will no longer be sending mail to the list.  Ditto the Wednesday 
spammer, whose name I have already forgotten.
   Moving forward, I don't think I will post a message like this for 
every spammer, because I feel like I'm cluttering the list up a bit 
by so doing-- compounding the sin of the spam, in a way, by adding to 
the noise and not the signal.  So I'll be silently wielding the 
banhammer unless a) it's been a while since the last swing, and I 
feel a reminder is in order; or b) the situation is unusual, such as 
a flood of multiple messages before I can bring the hammer down.
   Meantime, if anyone works out a way to send airhorn blasts to any 
user via TCP/IP, let me know.


--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: from michael ray enjoy!

[Eric A. Meyer]

   Sorry for the noise, folks.  We shouldn't be troubled from that 
particular source again.
   There are days when I think about just adding a filter to block 
all mail from yahoo.com addresses.  I didn't do it today, mostly 
because a database search confirmed there are almost 500 list members 
with Yahoo addresses... but tomorrow is another day.


--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] linear-gradient

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 15:39 + 6/6/13, Angela French wrote:


So in my syntax, what is the to doing?


   It's saying the the direction of the gradient ray points to the 
bottom of the element.  In other words, the gradient from from the 
top TO the bottom.  If you changed it to read:


   background-image: linear-gradient(to left, red, yellow);

...then the gradient would run from right TO left.  Similarly:

   background-image: linear-gradient(to top left, red, yellow);

...means from bottom right TO top left, though not precisely into the 
top left corner.  An old-ish post of mine hopefully makes it a little 
more clear: 
http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2012/04/26/lineargradient-keywords/. 
(Note that it's from April 2012, so some of the this is how browsers 
behave right now bits may no longer be accurate.)


--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: ★ Css D, Mark left a message for you

[Eric A. Meyer]

   Well, I learned something today: that Mailman apparently uses the 
Reply-To: as well as he From: header to decide if mail should be 
let through.  Also that Mailman lets administrators use regular 
expressions in sender-blocking filters, as in ^.*badoo.*.  Also 
also that Badoo, whatever that is, should be denounced and shunned by 
all right-thinking citizens of the world.

   Carry on, everyone, and sorry for the noise.

--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: Join me on Fancy

[Eric A. Meyer]

   Really?  REALLY?
   Two notes: one, if you join a social network, don't let it spam 
your address book; and two, if you do, don't belong to any mailing 
lists.  Oh, and a unexpected-Spanish-Inquisition-style third: if you 
ignore notes one and two, don't be surprised to find yourself 
forcibly unsubscribed from said mailing lists.


--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: (no subject)

[Eric A. Meyer]

   Well, that had all the hallmarks of a spambot gone bad, but it's 
hard to be certain, so the account in question is now moderated.  If 
it actually gets around to spamming, the spam shouldn't reach the 
list.  We'll just dump it from the filters (and the account from the 
membership rolls) and move on with life.


--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: link

[Eric A. Meyer]

   ARGH.  The customary kicking has been carried out, but as 
usual, it feels a bit like burning down the barn after the horse has 
already been shipped off to the glue factory.  Or words to that 
effect.
   It comes as no real comfort that I've recently seen the same thing 
happen on other mailing lists, even ones with much more aggressive 
filtering (as in, stuff in addition to what you can do in MailMan) in 
place.  It appears to be something we're going to have to live with, 
unless I start adding in really Draconian measures like requiring any 
mail from a yahoo.com account to be held for approval.  No, I'm not 
going to do that.  But I've been tempted.

   Anyway, sorry once more for the noise.  Carry on.

--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: Stephen Davis

[Eric A. Meyer]

   ...nd another one booted.
   This is getting seriously annoying, and I apologize to everyone 
for the rash of spam.  I don't know if it's just a nasty bout of 
account compromises or some lovely little spambot out there decided 
to sign up a bunch of accounts for later use.  Either way, I hope I 
can find a way to deal with it soon.  As usual, I'm open to any 
suggestions-- feel free to send them to me offlist, especially if you 
have expertise with Mailman.


--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: Ram

[Eric A. Meyer]

...and another spammer is booted from the list.  Sorry for the noise.
   I may need to look into advanced Mailman filtering.  Anyone have a 
pointer to a good primer?


--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: Hey!

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 13:50 -0500 2/1/13, John Snippe wrote:


Wow... nobody is immune from spam, eh?


   Sadly not-- mailing lists are vulnerable to anyone who's a 
registered member, whether because a spammer signs up an address to 
spam intentionally, or a list member's computer or webmail account 
gets compromised.
   I've unsubscribed the offending account, so I hope there won't be 
any more spam coming from that particular vector.  For everyone else, 
this is probably a good time to review your account security, webmail 
outboxes, and virus checks in case you've also been compromised. 
Sorry for the noise, folks.


--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: CSS linear gradient in Android tablet not extending to bottom of page

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 10:05 -0500 1/29/13, Kim Fernandez wrote:


My Manager is looking for a graphic designer for a 2 week job...please
respond to this email if interested.


   To everyone besides Kim:  if you do, please make sure to do so off 
list, but also consider whether you want to work on such a short-term 
basis for a nameless firm that apparently doesn't see fit to respect 
the rules of conduct of a public forum.  (See 
http://css-discuss.org/policies.html, a URL found in the footer of 
every message sent via the list.)
   In the meantime, the original poster Debbie's question about 
gradients is interesting, and I hope it gets an informative answer. 
I'd investigate it myself if I had an Android tablet handy.


--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: CSS linear gradient in Android tablet not extending to bottom of page

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 10:36 -0500 1/29/13, Kim Fernandez wrote:


EricYou obviously are a rude individual with no respect.


   Perhaps so, but I'm also the person in charge of the list and 
enforcing its rules on those who rudely disrespect them.  If you wish 
to act in accordance with the list's policies, then you are welcome 
to rejoin.  If not, then please feel free to assign all the blame to 
me and abstain from further subjecting yourself to the indignity of 
dealing with me.  Thank you.


--
Eric A. Meyer (e...@meyerweb.com) http://meyerweb.com/
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: CSS linear gradient in Android tablet not extending to bottom of page

[Eric A. Meyer]

   Oops.  That was supposed to be sent in private, not to the list. 
Sorry about that, everyone.  Let this stand as a testament to the 
universal truth: that eventually, no matter how long you have been 
online or how careful you try to be, you will eventually fall victim 
to one of the classic blunders: the inappropriate Reply All.
   Please don't perpetuate this fraying side of the thread any 
further, as I did.  In penance, I will now go add my own email 
address to the approve before posting list filter, so that the next 
few times I reply I will be reminded of my error and (with luck) 
learn from it.


--
Eric A. Meyer (e...@meyerweb.com) http://meyerweb.com/
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: New Thread: The REM unit vs. EM's vs. PX's...

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 01:36 -0500 1/25/13, David Laakso wrote:


Neither. As for myself, I plan on taking in a good movie...


   That actually sounds like a really good plan, and I encourage it 
broadly.  The tone of this thread has reached the point that I'm 
tempted to end it, but I would like to see the use of rems explored 
further, if people have examples or ideas for practical uses.
   If the thread can be brought back to that pathway, and civility 
can be restored, I would love to see it carry on.  If not, then we 
should indeed move on to another topic.  Thanks.


(P.S. Last night/this morning happens to be the eleventh anniversary 
of css-discuss.  Party hats all 'round!)


--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: New Thread: The REM unit vs. EM's vs. PX's...

[Eric A. Meyer]

   This is probably a good point to drop the validation discussion, 
since the usual points have been made and to continue would take the 
thread even further off-topic.
   In general, the pros and cons of validation is one of those 
never-resolvable wars that I don't want to see consume the list.  See 
http://css-discuss.incutio.com/wiki/Code_Validation for more on the 
topic, and anyone should feel free to add their views if they feel 
those views are inadequately represented.
   I'm still trying to work through the thread's origins and purpose, 
but I will restate the purpose of the list in case it helps with 
focus (if help is needed; I'm still trying to figure that out): 
Practical discussions of CSS and its use.  That is, how to use CSS 
in the real world, with awareness of one's real-world users and the 
limitations we have to work within.


--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] badly broken links on CSS-d wiki

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 17:35 + 12/6/12, Philip TAYLOR wrote:

Ti Strga wrote:


 Is there somebody with both (a) write access to the wiki, and (b) some idea
 of where the images might be located these days, who would be willing to fix
 the broken links?


For example :

http://web.archive.org/web/20070710094052/http://www.michael4css.info/images/wiki-stacking/static.gif


   It turns out the images are all still online-- just protected 
against external referrals, apparently.  They're all here:


http://www.michael4css.info/images/wiki-stacking/

I've grabbed local copies until I can figure out the best place to 
store them and replace the broken links.  (In at least a few cases, I 
may just substitute the images with straight text.)


--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

[css-d] Re : OT -- Crossweavers CodeOver - Free download till midnight 10-31-12

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 14:24 + 10/31/12, Philip TAYLOR wrote:

matt1027 wrote:


 Crossweavers is offering a free CodeOver download till midnight tonight,
 10-31-12.



 CodeOver enables Mac and Linux to run Windows applications.


And the relevance of this to CSS is what, exactly ?


   I agree that it's not directly related to CSS, but for anyone on 
the list who's wanted a Mac- or Linux-based Windows VM solution but 
hadn't gotten around to acquiring one yet, it's a good way to do 
cross-browser testing.
   So, let's let the thread end here in order to keep things 
on-topic; and if anyone on the list needed this, now they know what 
to do.


--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: Position Opening

[Eric A. Meyer]

Hello,

   I'd like to take this opportunity to restate for everyone's 
benefit one of the list's policies, as provided on 
http://css-discuss.org/policies.html :


   No solicitations of employment or requests for applications. 
There are job boards, Web sites, mailing lists, and other venues for 
helping stimulate your local economy. Check them out.


If you've read over the policies and you're still not sure whether 
something should be announced on the list, please contact me to ask. 
Thank you.


--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] Does anyone recognize this ?

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 21:27 +0900 10/17/12, Philippe Wittenbergh wrote:


E {
display: inline-block;
float: left;
/* .. more .. */
}

Afaict, those are all applied to inline elements, no width is 
specified. On the face of it, that code is completely non-sensical 
(float will make the element display: block anyway - CSS 2.1:9.7 
[1]).


The question: does anyone recognizes this as some kind of hack for 
whatever browser ? I wouldn't know what the benefit is, though.


   I have a vague memory that maybe this was a way to ensure you 
triggered hasLayout in some versions of IE.  As you point out, the 
specification says that floating forces a change of display role, but 
I'm pretty sure not every browser properly did so in the early days.


--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: (no subject)

[Eric A. Meyer]

   Sorry for the repeated spam, folks.  The offending account has 
been kicked and banned, to revive a bit of IRC-speak.


--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: (no subject)

[Eric A. Meyer]

   Sorry for the spam, folks.  The offending account has been 
unsubscribed and banned.


--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] [OT] how hard would it be...

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 01:42 +1200 4/11/12, Michael Adams wrote:

On Wednesday 11 April 2012 00:23, Christian Hanvey wrote:
[snip]

 I could not find anything in the spec referring as to why we only

use the American spelling rather than International spelling. Cheers!

Completely OT for this list IIUC. The W3C has mailing lists too.


   Yes, it really is, although I'd be interested to see a thread on 
how to adapt LESS, Sass, or similar systems to handle non-American 
spellings up front.  Or even just a list of plugins for such systems, 
if the plugins already exist. Either way, it could make use of CSS 
more practical (as in simpler) for those not used to American 
spellings of things like 'color', and who are willing to take on the 
extra cognitive load of switching between their localized spelling 
and all the other CSS they'll come across on the web.  Otherwise the 
thread should end.



The original authors of HTML were American. First in. first served.


   Interestingly, the original authors of HTML and CSS actually 
weren't American.  Tim Berners-Lee is English and Robert Cailliau is 
Belgian, whereas Håkon Lie is Norwegian and Bert Bos is Dutch, but 
they were most likely used to working in American due to their fields 
of study and the fact that most programming languages were (still 
are) basically American in language.  Not that there's anything there 
that can help us with practical uses of CSS, but it's an interesting 
bit of context, no?


--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] .

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 10:56 + 1/25/12, Philip TAYLOR wrote:


Exactly the same obscene text to be found all over the web;
recommend not to follow link.


   The posting account (Brian, not Philip) has been unsubscribed. 
Sorry for the noise, folks, and doubly sorry if it tripped any 
content filters at work.  Unfortunately the mailing list software 
doesn't support body content filters.


--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: Zachary Uram added your name to the Academia.edu directory of academics

[Eric A. Meyer]

   Really?  REALLY?
   I admit there was a powerful temptation to click the Yes, I am an 
academic/graduate student link and then block all future mails from 
the service, but I settled for clicking No, I am not an 
academic/graduate student and then blocking all future mails from 
the service.  (I hope.)
   Remember, folks, every time you let a social service harvest your 
address book, God kills a baby lemming.  So don't do it.  The baby 
lemmings have a hard enough life as it is.


--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: (no subject)

[Eric A. Meyer]

   As the rabbits say, one cloud feels lonely.
   I've booted the offending address but the sad truth of the matter 
is that these will continue to sneak onto the list as subscribers' 
accounts (or even machines) are compromised.  I'll do my best to 
catch them in the spam filters but no system is perfect, so I'll 
apologize in advance for any I don't catch.


--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: [OT] Why no HTML

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 12:25 +0900 7/20/11, Philippe Wittenbergh wrote:


I'm surprised the listmom hasn't called a halt to this discussion yet.


   Even the listmom has to sleep sometime.  Generally, the nights 
when he goes to bed early and wakes up late [which, with three 
children including an infant, are insanely rare events] are the 
nights when offtopic eruptions occur.  It's downright uncanny.



Hopefully he will do so soon.


   End of thread: it's self-admittedly off-topic.
   Questions about the list settings should be sent to the 
administrator (css-d-ow...@lists.css-discuss.org), not the list 
itself.  I realize this doesn't lead to public discussions of the 
list settings, but on the other hand it also doesn't fill up the 
inboxes of ~8,500 subscribers all over the world, most of whom seem 
to be fine with the list settings.
   If I start hearing from lots of people that they would like to 
discuss the list's settings or community or other aspects of the list 
itself, I can look into setting up a css-d-meta list.  We haven't 
needed such a thing in nine-plus years, but there's always a first 
time.

   To reiterate, however: this particular thread is now closed.  Thanks.

--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: (no subject)

[Eric A. Meyer]

   Sorry for the spam, everyone; I'm not sure how it got past the 
filter meant to prevent such messages (for the record, it's 
Subject:.*no subject.*-- maybe someone can tell me what I missed). 
I don't know if that was a case of a list member having their account 
compromised or a spammer signing up for the list, but either way the 
account's been unsubscribed so hopefully that will be the last of it 
for a while.


--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: automated response

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 12:36 -0400 6/16/11, Curtis Faulkner wrote:

I will soon be leaving Walker County Schools and will miss all my 
friends, co-workers, and contacts I have met here.


   We will also miss Curtis, as he's been unsubscribed for violating 
the no autoresponders policy.  Of course, if he'd like to sign up 
via a personal account, he's welcome back-- but please, folks, 
remember that when you set up an autoresponder, you need to blacklist 
all your mailing lists.  Otherwise you get into a situation like this 
one.


--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: Nothing from CSS-D lately?

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 10:12 -1000 5/14/11, david wrote:


Just wondering.


   Sadly, the server was down again.  We don't know why yet, but for 
some reason the server that runs css-d keeps crashing to a prompt. 
Or maybe rebooting to a prompt.  At any rate, a prompt is seen where 
no prompt should be.  It's being looked into by people who understand 
the nature of servers and their prompts.
   In the meantime, anyone who notices the server is down should 
e-mail 'css-d-ow...@lists.css-discuss.org' (as opposed to the list 
itself) to let me know, so I can let the sysadmins know.  Hopefully 
the problem will soon be fixed and nobody will have to do so, but 
just in case, that's the way to handle it.

   Apologies to all for the instability, and many thanks for your patience.

--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: jenslists

[Eric A. Meyer]

Sorry about that, folks.  I've added a couple of rules to try to catch such
things in the future, one the side effect of which is:  always make sure
you supply a subject when you post to the list.  Otherwise it may get
lodged in the spam filter until I can clear it.
   I hate to think I'll have to go back to making all new subscribers 
moderated, but if the spamming continues, I'll have little choice.

   Anyway, apologies for the noise.  Carry on.

--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] Using CSS to control width of page.

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 15:02 +0100 4/23/11, Philip Taylor (Webmaster, Ret'd) wrote:


 You've missed the semi-colon after width:
 800px - I don't know if that might be causing problems in whichever
 browser you're using.


It's not missing, it is omitted; as in Algol-68, semi-colon
is a separator in CSS, not a terminator.


   That is hands-down the best (as in most accurate and concise) 
explanation of the semicolon's role in CSS that I've ever seen.  I'm 
definitely filing that one away for future use.  Thank you!


--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: wiki (was: Printing in points)

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 1:21 PM +1300 2/11/11, Stephen Kestle wrote:

Please make your wiki a wiki, or at least open the talk pages (to 
anonymous people even!)


   This reminded me that I need to update the list on the state of 
the wiki.  Thanks, Stephen.
   The unfortunate truth is that wikis, particularly wikis as widely 
linked as ours, are targets for spammers.  In the past month or two, 
we've been hammered really, really hard by spam-scripts that would 
register an account and then start spamming.
   Eventually it got bad enough that we had to disable open account 
creation.  Yes, MediaWiki makes it fairly easy to roll back any given 
page and block an account from further editing, but when you have to 
do those things forty or fifty times a day it ceases to be easy.  So 
while we try to figure out ways to make it easier for legitimate 
actors to edit while keeping out the jerks, we've had to lock down 
the wiki pretty hard.  I hate this, but unfortunately it's the least 
awful choice right now.
   That said, the wiki administrators can still create accounts, so 
if anyone needs an account in order to update or correct a page, 
please let me know off-list.  All I need is your preferred username 
(give an alternate just in case), an initial password, and the e-mail 
address you want associated with the account.  Yes, it's clumsy, but 
it's a lot less clumsy than spam cleanup.
   We're hoping to figure out a better strategy than this over the 
long term, so I hope that one day we'll look back at all this and 
laugh.  At least until the sedatives kick in.  Thanks for bearing 
with us.


--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] Positioning images within a table cell

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 4:51 PM -0500 2/8/11, Paul Burney wrote:


 It sounds like you need to set position: relative on the td element. That
 way, it will establish a system of coordinates for absolutely positioned
 elements inside it - i.e., they will be positioned relative to the upper
 left corner of the cell.


I believe this is correct, but if I recall correctly, relative
positions don't work reliably on table cells. If you find that to be
the case, you'll need to add a container div inside of the table cell,
set its width and height to 100%, and its position to relative.


   Correct.  The behavior of positioned table cells is undefined, so 
browsers get to do whatever they want, up to and including ignoring 
your declaration altogether.  At least some do.  If you explicitly 
set the cell to 'display: block' then most (but possibly not all) 
browsers will then honor 'position: relative' but the cell will no 
longer act as part of the overall table, which probably defeats the 
original intent.
   So, as Paul says, throw a div in there, gritting your teeth about 
the crufty markup if necessary, and relatively position the div.  If 
you want to position in relation to the right or bottom edges of the 
cell, you may have to get creative with heights and widths and so on. 
If you only care about top and/or left, you can skip all that.


--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: modernizer usage

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 6:07 PM + 2/7/11, Barney Carroll wrote:


This is a Javascript issue.


   Agreed, which makes it off-topic for this list.  People should 
feel free to continue it off-list, but here the thread needs to end. 
Thank you.


--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: HTML5 and CSS3

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 6:50 AM -0700 1/19/11, Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh wrote:


This may be off-topic in a CSS list.


   Yes, it's off-topic for a CSS list.  So, really, is arguing about 
whether HTML5 is ready to use or not, or if it's useful or 
dangerous or misguided or brilliant or whatever.
   I don't mind discussions about ways to style (and challenges with 
styling) the new HTML5 elements, of course.  But arguing about the 
language itself is off-topic here and should be avoided.  Thank you.


--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: CSS Sprite Generator

[Eric A. Meyer]

Folks,

   This thread needs to end now.  If the various parties wish to take 
their disagreements to private e-mail, that's obviously fine, but the 
several thousand members of the list don't need to be subjected to an 
argument in which they have no part.
   I will reiterate the passage Chetan quoted from the list policies, 
as well as the text that follows it, because it is always relevant:


   Above all, if you can't answer with a modicum of respect,
or without feeling somehow annoyed by the question, then
DO NOT ANSWER AT ALL.  I'm dead serious about this.  You
may have seen and responded to a question six thousand times,
but the person asking has only heard it once: when they asked
it.  They're asking it in order to fill a gap in their own
knowledge.  Make your answer an encouragement for more
questions, not an incentive to unsubscribe.
 - http://css-discuss.org/policies.html#ask-answer

Thank you.

--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: CSS Sprite Generator

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 12:08 PM -0800 1/7/11, Thierry Koblentz wrote:


That same section says:
My philosophy is that there are two kinds of questions: good questions and
unasked questions.

Unless I misunderstand the above (which is totally possible), I'd say the
original post fell into the latter category.


   You do misunderstand the above.  I would not ordinarily have 
responded on the list to a thread that is supposed to be finished, 
but I could not take that chance that your interpretation would be 
taken to be what that passage means.  It means that asked questions 
are good questions.
   And now let us please drop all this before I have to resort to 
more active measures.


--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: CFP: Tools and Techniques in Software Development Process

[Eric A. Meyer]

   Well, that's a first for the list.  (I think.  My memory my be 
failing with age.)  We've had a few bits of spam get through over the 
years, but never a spammed CFP.
   Needless to say, that was not within the scope of the list, and 
I've taken action accordingly.  Sorry for the static, everyone.


--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] body has a top-margin that I can not figure out

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 9:31 AM +0900 12/29/10, Philippe Wittenbergh wrote:


On Dec 29, 2010, at 2:45 AM, Greg Wilker wrote:


 How come the header is pushing it down if it is contained within the
 contain element?


you should read up on margin -collapsing
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/box.html#collapsing-margins


   If that proves too daunting, as W3C specifications often are, 
http://complexspiral.com/publications/uncollapsing-margins/ might 
be of assistance.


--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] the box that clears float can't have margin?

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 10:00 AM -0500 12/17/10, Tim White wrote:


On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 9:39 AM, sweepslate sweepsl...@gmail.com wrote:


 I have two floats, one next to the other, content and side. There is a third
 box under them, the footer. I'd like the footer to have some margin-top, but
 I can't manage that, even with clear:both.
 


 if you put clear:both on your footer it will be pushed down just
far enough to clear the floats; and thus no 'extra' margin.


   To clarify, the cleared element does have a top margin.  It's just 
that the top margin is set by the browser to be wide (tall?) enough 
to push the element's top outer border edge past the float's bottom 
outer margin edge.  In other words, the '10px' value is overridden by 
the browser because it needs more than 10px of top margin to push the 
cleared element down far enough.  If that were changed to, say, 
'1px' then you'd see the top margin in full force.
   As Tim says, the usual solution is to set your ten pixels on the 
bottom margin(s) of the floated element(s), not the top of the 
cleared element.


--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] should this class override my other one?

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 12:51 AM + 12/15/10, John D wrote:

Any way we seem to have gone outside the original question and so we 
should end here before groups-papa tells us off to shut up.


   The List Mom disagrees; this is an interesting discussion of the 
cascade, it does have bearing on the original question, and I would 
in no way want to shut it down.


--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: Is blocking ads OK for web developers?

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 10:01 AM -0200 11/4/10, Jackson Araújo wrote:

I was wondering, as i started learning my way through web 
development, if the habit i had of using the so-famous Adblock 
filters and addons, while surfing the web was something OK.


   This is, as has been pointed out, wildly off-topic.  Of course, we 
could bring it back on-topic by discussing various ways to employ 
user stylesheets to block the display of ads while avoiding (as much 
as possible) the suppression of non-ad content.  That could be kind 
of fun.  But unless someone wants to pick up that ball and run with 
it, the thread is now over.  Thank you.


--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: Has anyone used www.webtype.com?

[Eric A. Meyer]

Folks,

   This thread has, to date, had exactly nothing to do with CSS.  If 
people want to discuss how to efficiently write CSS in support of 
such services, that might be all right.  If we wanted to discuss 
practical CSS that replaces the need for such services, that would be 
fine.
   As things stand, none of that nor anything faintly resembling it 
is happening, and so the thread needs to end now.  Thank you.


--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] [+] Re: Clearing a float

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 7:54 AM -0700 10/5/10, Thierry Koblentz wrote:


  I don't think inherit is a proper value for clear.

 it is:
 http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/visuren.html#flow-control


I had checked CSS pocket reference (Eric Meyer/O'Reilly) and it says in
there that inherit is not.
I have a more recent version of this great little book, but for some reason
I can't find it. I'd be curious to know if this has changed in the newer
edition.


   No, it appears to be omitted from the third edition as well.  I 
wonder whether I simply missed it or if 'inherit' wasn't officially a 
'clear' value when the 3ed. came out in 2007.  Either way, I'll do my 
best to make sure I correct that in the fourth edition.


--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] Legal format lists

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 5:11 PM +0100 9/23/10, Geoff Lane wrote:


Unfortunately, this doesn't give proper hanging indents. So I'm
guessing I need some way of setting tab stops and inserting a tab
after each para number; or some way of reinstating the standard LI
behaviour while retaining the legal-style numbering.


   In theory you could do it with a combination of ::marker and CSS 
counters.  In practice, nobody ever implemented ::marker.  And I 
agree with the assertions made in the link from David H.'s post, that 
you want the numbering in the HTML source instead of auto-generated 
(at least for legal documents).
   Given that, however, you might be able to get away with a markup 
structure like this:


   lispan class=num2.1.1.2/span It shall be construed a crime 
against humanity to recover an ancient musical instrument from a 
secluded cave and subsequently play it in front of others./li


   ...and then float or position the classed 'span' next to the list 
item.  I'd probably try positioning first, actually.  Something along 
these lines:


   ol.legal li {position: relative; padding-left: 7em;}
   ol.legal li span.num {position: absolute; top: 0; left: -7em;}

The numbers there are just wild guesses, so adjust to taste; and I 
imagine there would be a bit more needed to fine-tune the placement 
and appearance of the numbers.  But I think that basic approach 
should work for what you're trying to do.


--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: Off topic, web hosting help

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 2:34 PM +0100 8/26/10, Tomasz Kisielewski wrote:


It is not my intention to spam the list...


   And yet you did, and knowingly too.
   It seems to me really very simple:  if you know a post is off 
topic for a list, then you already know it shouldn't be posted to the 
list.  People joined this list to talk and learn about CSS, not web 
hosting.  It makes no more sense to post such a request here than it 
does to start posting knitting advice, political chain letters, 
videogame walkthroughs, evidence in support of conspiracy theories, 
or surveys regarding people's favorite breakfast cereals.
   So, end of thread.  Also, I fervently hope, end the of recent rash 
of off-topicness.  Thank you.


--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: Out of the stone age

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 7:12 PM +0100 8/25/10, Philip Taylor (Webmaster, Ret'd) wrote:


Well, before the list-police step in, this probably isn't
the best place to ask (since it has nothing to do with
CSS per se)...


   That makes it very much the wrong place to ask, let alone discuss, 
unless the question is how to use CSS to make the form look better. 
Since it wasn't, so far as I can tell, the thread is therefore ended.


--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: Out of the stone age

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 12:54 AM +0100 8/26/10, John D wrote:

That makes it very much the wrong place to ask, let alone 
discuss, unless the question is how to use CSS to make the form 
look better. Since it wasn't, so far as I can tell, the thread is 
therefore ended.


Perhaps it was implied in the question by saying:

Any and all suggestions are welcome.


   The problem was framed as a problem of generating a huge amount of 
markup from a legacy system.  If it had then included something like 
how do I make this page look better with CSS? then that would have 
been on-topic.  Tacking on a wide-open question such as the above 
does not imply that such a question was asked, however.


You seem to be quite heavy handed these days when the number of 
postings per day is on a reducing scale!  Do you intend to shut down 
this discussion group?


   Assuming that taking administrative action twice in the past few 
weeks constitutes quite a heavy hand, then my hand has become heavier 
due to the increased number of off-topic postings.  For some time, 
the community was essentially self-regulating.  This seems to be less 
true of late and so I have taken a more active role, as has sometimes 
been the case since I founded the list back in January of 2002. 
Until the list really is shut down or I have handed the reins over to 
someone else, that will not change.  And if I should have been more 
active over this past summer, then I apologize for my neglect.
   Moreover, I pity the members of any mailing list whose metric of 
success is quantity, not quality.
   As I said before, this thread is done-- though if the original 
poster would like to start a new thread which re-frames the problem 
in an on-topic way, that would of course be fine with me.  Anyone who 
has questions or concerns about my administration of the list is 
always free to contact me off-list at 
css-d-ow...@lists.css-discuss.org or at the personal address I'm 
using to post this message.


--
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
  -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: Any good CMS platforms?

[Eric A. Meyer]

While I'm sure there are many good (and many bad) CMS platforms, 
the fact remains that this is CSS-discuss, not CMS-discuss.  The 
mission statement here is: Practical discussions of CSS and its use 
(it's in the headers of every mail message sent through the list).
Accordingly, if anyone has questions about how to use CSS to 
improve the appearance of this CMS or that CMS, that would be 
on-topic.  It might even be acceptable to talk about which CMSes are 
the most CSS_friendly; that is, which are set up to be the most 
easily modified through customized CSS.  But it's not a place to 
debate the non-CSS merits of CMSes.
Therefore the thread is now at an end.  Thank you.

-- 
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
   -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] How do you identify a capable UI designer?

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 1:45 PM -0400 8/13/10, David Laakso wrote:

Hilco Wijbenga wrote:
  At the start-up where I work, we've been trying to find and hire a UI
  designer but it's proving to be rather challenging.

You might post your question to:
web design list l...@webdesign-l.com

That would, in fact, be the appropriate venue for the original 
question.  Let's not take the thread any further here.  Thank you.

-- 
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
   -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] Opacity question...

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 3:34 PM -0400 5/24/10, Matthew wrote:

I am wrestling with setting the opacity on background colors on a 
div to expose a pattern behind it. However I can't figure out how to 
keep the elements contained with in it at 100% opacity. Please see 
this page to see what I mean:

http://em-w.com/portPages/port_homeandhearth1.html

I would like the main image and the text to remain a solid color, 
while the white background has a 50% opacity level.

div {background-color: rgba(255,255,255,0.5);

That won't work in IE/Win, I believe, but it will in pretty much 
anything else of recent vintage.  Alternatively, you could create a 
smallish PNG which is all white and has 50% opacity and drop it into 
the background of the div.  That will work in all current browsers 
including IE/Win.

-- 
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
   -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] Serving universal ie6 stylesheet to IE5, IE5.5 and IE Mac

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 3:54 PM +0200 5/21/10, Joergen W. Lang wrote:

Ignore it. IE5.x/Mac is dead.

So, some would say, is IE5.0/Win, and yet just last year I had a 
client whose user traffic was 14% IE5.0/Win.  That translated to 
approximately one million users per month.  Based on what I know of 
their business, I would guess that in the meantime that percentage 
has not much dropped, and the raw number may well have gone up.
My point being that we cannot know Ellen's (or anyone's besides 
our own) users' needs and browsers, and rather than dismiss her 
attempts to serve them, it's better to help her figure out how to do 
so.
Ellen, I second the recommendation for Phillipe's IE5/Mac page at 
http://l-c-n.com/IE5tests/hiding/.  I've seen none better.

-- 
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
   -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: My Services

[Eric A. Meyer]

Hello all,

Just a reminder from your neighborhood list chaperone that 
commercial solicitations are still, as they have always been, 
off-topic and generally verboten on css-d.  This is explicitly one of 
the list policies: No solicitations of employment or requests for 
applications.
Please do not respond to the original message on the list, as 
doing so will only encourage more such behavior in the future.  Thank 
you.

-- 
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
   -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: Ticket troubles

[Eric A. Meyer]

Greetings all,

It seems we're having some trouble.  It appears that someone 
joined the list and then redirected all their list messages into the 
customer-support system for Midphase, a hosting outfit in Utah.  As a 
result, anyone who posts to the list may well get a support ticket 
from 'mpcustomer.com'.  Several people have reported this to me 
off-list, although it hasn't happened to me when I've posted.  (It's 
possible my spam filters are catching them.)
This is not affecting just our list.  I've found via Google[1] 
that this is happening to at least five other lists, and are quite 
likely more that Google can't reach because they don't have public 
web archives.  My guess is that someone disgruntled with Midphase has 
decided to launch a DoS-type attack against their support system.
I'm in contact with the support staff at Midphase and, as you 
might guess, they're at least as interested in having this end as are 
we.  Hopefully they'll be able to work out the offending address and 
report back so I can ban it, they can block it, and we can all put 
this distasteful incident behind us.
In the meantime, if you post to the list and do get a support 
ticket message from Midphase, just ignore/delete it.  Basically, 
treat it as though it's spam that managed to beat your 
countermeasures.  With luck we won't have to deal with it for more 
than a day or three.


[1] http://www.google.com/search?hl=enq=mpcustomer+ticket+list

-- 
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
   -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: Ticket troubles (followup)

[Eric A. Meyer]

Hello again,

I believe the support ticket problem has been resolved, so anyone 
posting to the list should NOT receive a note from Midphase.  I can't 
be 100% sure about this, but I'm probably at least 99% sure.
Earlier today, I contacted the administrators of several lists 
that were similarly affected and proposed that we share information 
about who'd recently signed up for our lists so that we could 
identify the culprit.  Joanmarie at mono-list shared what she'd 
found, and it squared exactly with my suspicions from my own 
investigation.  As a result, I was able to take action on this end 
and I believe I've booted and perma-banned the offending account. 
Hopefully the same will happen on the other affected lists.
Of course, this or something like it could happen again.  If it 
does, then let me know at css-d-ow...@lists.css-discuss.org and I'll 
do what I can.
Thank you all for your patience and understanding!  I sincerely 
hope I won't need any more of it for a while.

-- 
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
   -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: [Fwd: Re: [#24488699] Anchor offset ?]

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 11:06 PM -1000 5/9/10, david wrote:

Sorry to bother the list ... but I received this message below in
response to my 3:20 PM reply to a list email about the Anchor Offset
topic. I sent my reply ONLY to the list, so apparently someone's address
(@midphase.com) on the list isn't supposed to be on the list, which
doesn't seem to be something I can do anything about ...

I'm looking into this (in part by responding to your message) and 
think I know what's going on here, but can't yet be totally sure. 
It's complicated by the fact that no 'midphase' or 'mpcustomer' 
addresses are currently subscribed.
As a general note, when things like this happen, please contact 
the list administrators at css-d-ow...@lists.css-discuss.org (as 
listed in the headers of every message; look for 'List-Help') instead 
of mailing the whole list.  Thanks!

-- 
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
   -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] link trickery

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 2:32 PM +0800 5/6/10, Chris Blake wrote:

However the title is still clickable and I don't want it to be. Is
there anyway to disable a link via CSS? I want to display it, just not
have it working as a link.

No, CSS cannot stop a link from being a link.

I have thought that an option (trick) could be to remove text
decoration of underline on rollover and possibly change the cursor to
be ?? (the standard one when hovering over normal text). At least this
way user will not see the cursor for link, and not try clicking.

An oldie but a goldie:

a:visited {
  text-decoration: none;
  cursor: text;}

You could also do 'color: inherit' if that would set the color to 
match surrounding non-link text.  Otherwise you could explicitly set 
a neutral color.

-- 
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
   -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

[css-d] ADMIN: a warning for Gmail users

[Eric A. Meyer]

Hello Gmail users,

I've been seeing an increasing number of pharma-spam messages in 
the spam filters being sent by list members with Gmail accounts. 
(I've been seeing this happen in my personal inbox as well.) 
Fortunately, thanks to the way the spam is constructed, it's been 
prevented from reaching the list.
As I say, these all seem to be coming from Gmail accounts.  An 
article from Computerworld UK (http://is.gd/bC3yy) covering this has 
some information, though sadly no definitive answers or solutions.
I usually don't send this sort of thing to the list, but a quick 
search reveals that just over 2,600 of you-- nearly a third of the 
list-- have Gmail addresses.  If you're one of those people, please 
check your outbox to make sure you haven't become an unwitting 
spammer and consider taking steps like changing your password. 
Thanks.

-- 
Eric A. Meyer (e...@meyerweb.com) http://meyerweb.com/
__
css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: a warning for Gmail users

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 5:17 PM +0100 4/21/10, Lesley Binks wrote:

Isn't this a  bit of a red herring, Eric?

I have not attempted to obscure a scent trail with the use of 
excessively pungent salted and smoked fish, no.
As there have been rising indications-- not just in my inbox, but 
among Gmail users overall-- that there is a particular problem here 
beyond forging headers.  (I had another one come in just a few 
minutes ago.)
Given how many list members are potentially affected, I thought it 
a good idea to use the list to let people know.  This was one of 
those times I wished I could set up a send to segment messages as I 
would have ideally only mailed the Gmail and googlemail accounts. 
Alas!
Anyway, I don't want this to become a great big thread of 
off-topicness, so if I erred in the posting, I apologize.

-- 
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
   -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: Amrinder Sandhu has invited you to Dropbox

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 8:59 AM -0500 4/17/10, Jack Timmons wrote:

Clicked the link to block further Dropbox invites. I'm sure List Mom
will handle the rest if needed.

Thanks, Jack.  I have indeed taken extra steps, including adding 
yet another entry to the spam filters.
Let this stand as yet another example of how the whole let us 
raid your entire address book to mail-blast everyone you know 
anti-pattern is a net negative.

-- 
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
   -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] Opa

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 10:00 AM +0100 4/8/10, Val Dobson wrote:

Reported to Google Sites for abuse.

Oh, good idea!  That hadn't occurred to me.  I was just going to 
leave it at booting-and-banning the address.
Sorry for the noise, folks.

-- 
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
   -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: quotation patterns (was: Die focus, die!)

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 10:10 AM -0500 3/25/10, Charles Miller wrote:

1.  Is it considered proper to put the reply after the quote?

I consider it sensible to do so, as you can tell from this 
message, but this is not something that's enforced or even really 
patrolled.  What IS considered deeply improper is to quote an entire 
message for just a few lines of response.  (And if you include the 
list's signature file in the quoted material, that's just rude.  As 
are lengthy legal disclaimer sigs, but never mind that now.)
This holds true whether the response is at the top or the bottom. 
If you're trimming all the excess quoted material you can without 
losing too much context to frame the response, that's good enough.
When I see excess quoting, I'll contact the poster off-list to ask 
them to keep quoted material trimmed down in the future.  It isn't 
generally something for which I put people under moderation, or 
anything like that.
Finally, reaching the list administrators is easy:  mail 
css-d-ow...@lists.css-discuss.org.  Now you know-- and knowing is 
half the battle.

-- 
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
   -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

[css-d] The css-d wiki REBORN!

[Eric A. Meyer]

Ladies and gentlemen, the new CSS-D wiki:

  http://css-discuss.incutio.com/

Thanks to the stellar efforts of the wonderful people at Incutio, 
the content was moved over from the old TaviWiki to MediaWiki with an 
automated script that did its best to preserve formatting along with 
the content.  In the vast majority of cases, this happened without a 
hitch.  However, there may be pages where things got a little wonky. 
There is a small cadre of volunteers working on cleaning up the 
problems we know about, which are listed at 
http://css-discuss.incutio.com/wiki/Migration .
Moving forward, editing the wiki will require that you create a 
wiki account.  I know this is a change from the old wiki, where 
anyone could edit any page, but the spamfiltration that kicked off 
this whole migration vividly illustrated why that's a bad idea.  It 
may be that as time goes on we'll loosen up the editing policy, but 
no promises one way or the other.
Please do NOT try to fix the pages listed on the Migration page. 
If a ton of people rush in, we'll step all over each others' edits. 
If you find pages with problems, please let us know on the Migration 
page's discussion page 
(http://css-discuss.incutio.com/wiki/Talk:Migration).  Doing so will, 
as I said, mean you need to create a wiki account.  If that's simply 
unacceptable, then please e-mail me personally (that is, off-list) 
and I'll make notes on the discussion page.
One consequence of migrating to MediaWiki is that all the URLs 
changed.  Not to worry!  Incutio has set up permanent redirects from 
the old URLs to the new ones.  If you have sites that point to the 
old wiki URLs you should update them, but the old links will not 
break.  Again, if you find an exception, please note it on the 
Talk:Migration page or let me know off-list.
Please do NOT report broken links, whether they're internal to the 
wiki or pointing externally.  Link repair will be a whole separate 
effort, and not one we're ready to tackle just yet.  We'll get there. 
Just not yet.
That's about it for the moment.  Thanks for bearing with me 
through this whole saga, and please join me in applauding the 
volunteers who are helping restore the wiki to its former, 
pre-spammed stature.
Oh, and on a final, slightly whimsical note:  we have a new logo, 
as seen on the wiki.  I'm rather proud of it.  Enjoy!

-- 
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
   -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: amirabbas.abdolali has invited you to Spokeo

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 12:41 PM + 3/8/10, amirabbas.abdol...@gmail.com wrote:

amirabbas.abdol...@gmail.com has invited you to try Spokeo,
which finds your friends' updates across the Web.

Reason #47 not to let a social networking site harvest your 
address book and spam everyone you know:  sometimes, you end up 
spamming 8,500+ people you don't personally know from all over the 
world.  Reason #48: it will get booted from the community as a result.
As the posters in my junior high school wood shop class used to 
say, don't let this happen to you.

-- 
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
   -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] ADMIN: Web Development Conference in Raleigh, NC NCDevCon

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 7:46 PM -0500 3/4/10, Roger Austin wrote:

   We are having another free web development conference this year in
Raleigh, NC at the NC State University Centennial Campus.

I just want to pop in here to say that this post has the 
Chaperone's blessing, and to include a reminder that anyone with 
similar posts should seek said blessing before posting.  Thanks!

-- 
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
   -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] Strange line in Chrome

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 2:00 PM +0100 3/2/10, Thijs Hakkenberg wrote:

In Chrome a vertical line appears because the content is wider then the
frame. In FF and IE, the text breaks up nicely, but not in Chrome.
http://www.lawandroar.nl/index.php?id=158

Anyone know why?

The best I could determine is that your layout table is 804 pixels 
wide in Chrome/Safari, and 760 pixels wide in Camino/Firefox. 
Assuming you keep the table in a layout role, you'll probably want to 
assign it an explicit width, which you don't seem to be doing at 
present.
I assume the difference at present has to do with the way the cell 
contents are affecting the table layout in each browser family, but 
it's been much too long since I worked with tables for layout (about 
a decade now) and I don't know exactly how the table layout 
algorithms differ in the two families I mentioned-- they both 
post-date my table layout experience.

-- 
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
   -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] apply a style to specific table column

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 8:15 AM -0700 3/1/10, Bob Meetin wrote:

The first column is a key of sorts, the rest data.  Yes I can do
something like:

trtd class=c1some key/tdtd class=c2data/tdtd
style=color: #ffdata/td/tr

Since all of column #1 will take on the same appearance, is there a
method of setting a global type style that only applies to column 1
without having to apply the class/style syntax to all 100 rows?  Ditto
for column #2, etc?

Not really, no.  You'd think that the 'col' and 'colgroup' 
elements would work, but they basically don't.  To quote from a book 
I'm trying hard to finish:

  If your goal with columns is simply background colors and 
setting the column widths, then you're golden.  If you want to do 
just about anything else to style the columns, though, you're 
basically out of luck.  That's because there are only two more 
properties that the CSS specification allows on table columns, 
'border' and 'visibility', and neither is well supported.

This is not true in IE, which applies most (if not all) properties 
to columns.  It's true in every other modern browser.  The reasons 
for the differences between browsers as well as between expectation 
and specification are deep and complex, but they're not crazy.
There is one non-class approach that's fairly cross-browser 
friendly, and that's to use a combination of :first-child and 
adjacent-sibling combinators:

td:first-child + td + td {...styles for third column...}

That works in every current browser.  It will fail in IE6, which 
understands neither :first-child nor adjacent-sibling combinators. 
It will also fail in Netscape 4.x.
One caveat: if you ever colspan cells in some rows but not others, 
then the adjacent-sibling pattern I've discussed here will thoroughly 
fail.  If your colspanning is consistent in every row, then it won't.
Incidentally, you might consider changing your some key cell to 
a 'th scope=row'.  That would let you style the first column 
uniquely based on element name alone, and also give you some more 
options for selectors.  For example, the above could be:

tbody th + td + td {...styles for third column...}

Or:

th[scope=row] + td + td {...styles for third column...}

Again, neither of those will work in IE6/NN4 but they'll be fine in 
any vaguely recent browser.

-- 
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
   -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] apply a style to specific table column

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 12:37 PM -0500 3/1/10, Reese wrote:
On 01-Mar-10 12:05, Eric A. Meyer wrote:

  Again, neither of those will work in IE6/NN4 but they'll be fine in
  any vaguely recent browser.

Not to start a religious war, but NN4?

Just a small, apparently botched attempt at some wry humor.  Pay 
it no mind, continue as you were, nothing to see here, keep right, et 
cetera, et cetera.

-- 
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
   -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] Background color

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 8:10 PM + 2/23/10, Philip TAYLOR wrote:

I am confused.  If you take the example below, which may
be seen online at

   http://web-consultants.org.uk/sites/development/test-inheritance.html

both the first outer div and the first inner (nested) div
shew the same  background colour.
[...] is it simply that the
default background colour is transparent, and therefore
no inheritance is taking place but rather the colour is
simply shewing through ?

Yes, it's that.  The easiest test to see if a background is being 
inherited by a child element is something like this:

div#outer {background: silver url(image.png) 0 0 no-repeat; padding: 1em;}
div#inner {padding: 1em;}

If you see two instances of the background image, then the background 
is being inherited.  You won't, at least not in any browser I've seen 
in the past 15 years.  (Okay, there's one obscure case in IE/Win 
where you can cause the forced inheritance of backgrounds, but that 
was either a bug or a hack-- opinions vary.)
You can simulate the effect of an inherited background like so, at 
least in recent browsers:

div#outer {background: silver url(image.png) 0 0 no-repeat; padding: 1em;}
div#inner {background: inherit; padding: 1em;}

That's why background properties aren't inherited, of course.

-- 
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously.
   -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
__
css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/