Re: [css-d] Putting IE6 out to pasture
From: Martyn Merrett mx.css...@googlemail.com Thought you'd be interested in this. Could this *finally* be the end of IE6 and our CSS woes? http://weblog.200ok.com.au/2009/03/putting-ie6-out-to-pasture.html I'm still seeing 17% IE6 use. And last weekend I figured out why. Was helping my friend's dad with his computer. I went to Windows Update and got the old This is not a valid Windows license message. So I ask to see his xp cd and he hands me this old bootleg looking thing. Guy's 80 years old, using a bootleg xp copy. He gives me his anti-Bill Gates speech. Then it hit me. There's probably millions of these cd's out there - meaning millions of people stuck on IE6 until they decide to shell out the cash for a legit Windows copy. So I don't see IE6 disappearing for a long, long time. Sorry. -melbeach __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Complete Stylesheet for Each IE Version - No Trickle Down
Melbeach wrote: Each IE version can now be targeted in complete isolation. Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis wrote: Another advantage of this approach is that each IE version only has to download one stylesheet, rather than two or three or four, so that's fewer HTTP requests. Exactly. If you think about the average IE6 user. This user is probably most likely of the bunch to still be using a dial-up connection. Using the usual linking methods, this IE6 dial-up scenario will request up to four separate stylesheets. Of all scenarios, this is the one I would least like to be required to request four stylesheets. Using the method discussed, this IE6 dial-up scenario only needs to request one stylesheet. Melbeach wrote: So I'm wondering if any of the experts here see a problem with doing this. My main concern is that some obscure low-tech browser might see this !--[if !IE]!-- and go into some sort of infinite loop routine, burning up the old cpu. Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis wrote: That would definitely be a bug in the browser, not your code, and such a browser would be unlikely to handle common web content. Makes sense. I only have one website and it's a work-in-progress at the moment. So it was no big deal converting what I had to this method. If I was a pro web designer with hundreds of sites under my watch, I would probably be alot more skeptical about all of this. -Kyle __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] Complete Stylesheet for Each IE Version - No Trickle Down
The usual method of stylesheet linking has you starting with a main stylesheet that all browsers use, then going down the list of IE versions. Each IE stylesheet contains only a handful of coding to get that particular IE version in line. Something like this: link rel=stylesheet type=text/css href=yoursite.css / !--[if IE 7]link rel=stylesheet type=text/css href=yoursite-ie7.css /![endif]-- !--[if IE 6]link rel=stylesheet type=text/css href=yoursite-ie6.css /![endif]-- Well, why not use the methods discussed at Perishable Press: http://perishablepress.com/press/2008/09/22/how-to-deal-with-ie-6-after-dropping-support/ and Simon Clayson: http://www.simonclayson.co.uk/reportage/comments/ie_6_text_only/. The focus of their articles is how to degrade IE6 gracefully. But the potential is there for feeding each IE version with its own complete stylesheet like so: !--[if IE 6]link rel=stylesheet type=text/css href= yoursite -ie6.css /![endif]-- !--[if IE 7]link rel=stylesheet type=text/css href= yoursite -ie7.css /![endif]-- !--[if !IE]!--link rel=stylesheet type=text/css href=yoursite.css /!-- ![endif]-- I've tested this locally and so far it's working in the latest versions of FF, Opera, Safari, IE7, and IE6. It's nice to know that if I make a change to the main non-IE stylesheet, I don't have to wonder how IE was affected. Each IE version can now be targeted in complete isolation. So I'm wondering if any of the experts here see a problem with doing this. My main concern is that some obscure low-tech browser might see this !--[if !IE]!-- and go into some sort of infinite loop routine, burning up the old cpu. Is there a tool available that would allow me to check that? Are there any other guinea pigs out there that are already using this method? Thanks! -Kyle __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Email Virus
This is kinda off topic, but very important. I'm getting email viruses, and I think it's from this forum. An attachment is with every email I get. Of course, I haven't opened any of them. Anyone else with this problem. Anyone know how to stop this? Please do not remove this email, everyone needs to see it. I haven't recd any virus emails in quite awhile. I'm using Roadrunner and downloading emails right to my computer. So unlike people that use Yahoo email or something similar, my emails aren't prescreened for viruses. At least not that I know of. If my email account was being pegged with virus emails, Norton AV would be picking them up. Keep in mind though that I joined this list only recently - May 28. -Melbeach __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Validation Warning: Byte-Order Mark found in UTF-8 File?
I think this might be a little off topic but it's related to validating CSS. As of late, my documents have been validating but I get this warning: Byte-Order Mark found in UTF-8 File - I'm clueless as to what this really means. Can someone please elaborate? I had this problem when I started out coding with Notepad. For some reason, Notepad adds this to your text file and you have no choice about it. I started using Notepad2 (http://www.flos-freeware.ch/notepad2.html), which provides the option of not including the byte-order mark. I use the encoding option UTF-8. The encoding option UTF-8 with Signature will add the byte-order mark. I'm not sure how Dreamweaver handles it though. -Melbeach __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Target IE7? Or Something Better?
Regarding this site and CSS: www.springfieldmo.gov/founders/ www.springfieldmo.gov/css/founders.css The issue: In IE7 only, the menu images are 9px too high, apparently needing the same 9px margin-top as on these items as IE6 did. Chris, I'm seeing no difference whatsoever with IE6 and FF on XP SP1 and also IE7 on XP SP3. -Melbeach __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Site check please...
Hi all, May I request a site check please? It all looks okay on my own Mac and PC browsers, but I'd like to hear of any weirdness you might see that I don't: http://www.sweetlorrainebakeshop.com/ Thanks very much! Lorraine Everything works for me in Windows IE6 and Firefox. Only thing - when I resize the window, the horizontal scroll bar kicks in real early. Your little subsections seem like they could go much narrower and still look good. -Melbeach __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Perfect 3 column liquid layout (Matthew James Taylor) and Quirks Mode
Thanks for the help Georg. This seems to be working. As you mentioned, the
only drawback appears to be that it breaks down in IE6 and below when you
resize the window real small. So it's either that or go with Quirks Mode. I
think I'll opt for no Quirks Mode and put up with the window resizing issue.
I'll be a happy man when IE6 does finally disappear from the landscape. My
April Urchin stats show IE6 users at 24% - compared to 46% for IE7, 22% for
Firefox, 4.5% for Safari, 0.64% for Opera, and a whopping 0.11% for IE5. It
looks like it will still be awhile, but the Firefox numbers are encouraging.
-Melbeach
- Original Message -
From: Gunlaug Sørtun [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Melbeach [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 12:51 PM
Subject: Re: [css-d] Perfect 3 column liquid layout (Matthew James Taylor)
and Quirks Mode
Melbeach wrote:
I've been experimenting with the different 3-column layout methods and I
think
I like this version the best:
http://matthewjamestaylor.com/blog/perfect-3-column.htm. However, it seems
that the layout only works in IE6 if I send the browser into Quirks Mode
by
beginning the html/xhtml page with the following declaration:
?xml version=1.0 encoding=utf-8?
If I delete this, the layout breaks apart in IE6.
If you by breaks mean the border gets added to the viewport in IE6'
slightly more standard compliant mode, then adding...
html {border: none;}
...will fix that. It's as expected since body equals viewport in quirks
mode while html equals viewport in standard mode.
I can't provoke any other differences between the two modes in IE6 at my
end, so if there are any problematic ones then you'll have to tell me/us
where they are.
regards
Georg
--
http://www.gunlaug.no
__
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Re: [css-d] Perfect 3 column liquid layout (Matthew James Taylor) and Quirks Mode
Nice article. I think you have swayed me in the other direction. Now there is just one more thing I must consider which may change my mind again. I plan to upgrade to the new version (v5.5) of the Miva Merchant shopping cart. Older versions didn't fare well with xhtml. I heard that the issue has been corrected in v5.5. But if I am forced to code in HTML 4.01 - according to your article, if I throw IE6 into quirks mode, IE7 will also go into quirks mode. I probably don't want that to happen. So I will find out. Off to the Miva forum. Thanks again! -Melbeach Your choice, of course. I have yet to see any advantages in having IE6 in its not very standard compliant mode... http://www.gunlaug.no/contents/wd_additions_16.html ...so I'll keep it in quirks mode until there's not a single one left on earth to confront my designs :-) I'll even overload IE6 with min/max expressions until it chokes on them... http://www.gunlaug.no/contents/wd_additions_14.html ...just for the fun of it. regards Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] Perfect 3 column liquid layout (Matthew James Taylor) and Quirks Mode
First post here. Thanks for the great resource! I've been experimenting with the different 3-column layout methods and I think I like this version the best: http://matthewjamestaylor.com/blog/perfect-3-column.htm. However, it seems that the layout only works in IE6 if I send the browser into Quirks Mode by beginning the html/xhtml page with the following declaration: ?xml version=1.0 encoding=utf-8? If I delete this, the layout breaks apart in IE6. I'm wondering if anyone has had any luck with making this layout work after deleting the above declaration, thereby not using Quirks Mode? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! -Melbeach __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Perfect 3 column liquid layout (Matthew James Taylor) and Quirks Mode
Thanks for the help. Please accept my humble apologies, I referenced the wrong
layout. It's actually this 2-column layout that seems to require Quirks mode:
http://matthewjamestaylor.com/blog/ultimate-2-column-left-menu-ems.htm. You
can save this page's source and open it in Notepad. Delete the top line: ?xml
version=1.0 encoding=utf-8?
When I do this, the right-column completely covers up the left-column.
Actually, the same thing will happen in Firefox if I convert this layout to an
html version and delete the declaration in question.
-Melbeach
- Original Message -
From: Gunlaug Sørtun [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Melbeach [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 12:51 PM
Subject: Re: [css-d] Perfect 3 column liquid layout (Matthew James Taylor)
and Quirks Mode
Melbeach wrote:
I've been experimenting with the different 3-column layout methods and I
think
I like this version the best:
http://matthewjamestaylor.com/blog/perfect-3-column.htm. However, it seems
that the layout only works in IE6 if I send the browser into Quirks Mode
by
beginning the html/xhtml page with the following declaration:
?xml version=1.0 encoding=utf-8?
If I delete this, the layout breaks apart in IE6.
If you by breaks mean the border gets added to the viewport in IE6'
slightly more standard compliant mode, then adding...
html {border: none;}
...will fix that. It's as expected since body equals viewport in quirks
mode while html equals viewport in standard mode.
I can't provoke any other differences between the two modes in IE6 at my
end, so if there are any problematic ones then you'll have to tell me/us
where they are.
regards
Georg
--
http://www.gunlaug.no
__
css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
