Re: [css-d] Deprecations in recent versions of HTML cause C SS problems
On 2010-02-12 Ann Randall wrote: And yes, you can read about the APA's return to two spaces at the end of sentences at http://www.apastyle.org/manual/whats-new.aspx Scroll down just below the Chapter 4 subheading. Do they really expect double-spaces between sentences to be emulated in HTML/CSS, or just to be present in the plaintext source? Seems a bit daft to me! There is of course the possibility that they aren't aware that HTML renderers squash horizontal whitespace and why they should do so. Good contemporary typographic practice is not to stuff extra spacing between sentences. See p. 28-30 of Bringhurst, Robert. The Elements of Typographic Style: Version 3.0. [Point Roberts Wash.]: Hartley Marks, Publishers, 2004. I hasten to add that I learned to apply the practice on the typewriter, and I still think it does add some clarity when reading text in a monowidth font, but in text set or rendered in a proportional font it's just disturbing. For most languages it was never used in printing. On-topically: the only way to emulate double spaces with CSS which I can think of would be to wrap every sentence in a span class=sentence and style that with a 2em right padding. Any other? In HTML you can put nbsp;nbsp; plus an ordinary space after each sentence, but that's awfully presentational markup. /BP 8^) -- Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch atte melroch dotte se ~~ C'est en vain que nos Josués littéraires crient à la langue de s'arrêter; les langues ni le soleil ne s'arrêtent plus. Le jour où elles se *fixent*, c'est qu'elles meurent. (Victor Hugo) __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Deprecations in recent versions of HTML cause C SS problems
In HTML you can put nbsp;nbsp; plus an ordinary space after each sentence, but that's awfully presentational markup. Actually, that would be three spaces. Two would be nbsp; . ---Tim __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Deprecations in recent versions of HTML cause C SS problems
--- On Thu, 2/11/10, Ann Randall annrand...@boisestate.edu wrote: snip I do have a question about the best way to style for APA 6, which took a giant step backward to require 2 spaces after the ends of sentences. It seems to me that, assuming the rule is not disregarded, there would be a CSS way to add an extra space at the end of most sentences-- at least those ending with periods. I'm trying to wrap my head around just how that could be done, though. Any ideas? Ann Randall On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Bobby Jack bobbykj...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Hi Ann, snip I agree with you - requiring 2 steps at the end of sentences is insane! HTML doesn't provide for a 'nice' way of doing this: in the simple case, all whitespace is equivalent to a single space, so that text can be laid out very flexibly in the source document. Having said that, there are a couple of ways of forcing a double-space: 1. ' ' will result in two spaces, the second being a 'non-breaking space'. Of course, it's a pain putting those in manually, but not much more than having to hit the spacebar twice at the end of each sentence. 2. The CSS delcation 'white-space: pre' will preserve all white space, allowing you to just double space at the end of each sentence, but you need to be aware that ALL whitespace (including tabs and newlines) will be preserved. As far as I know, there's no way for CSS to target 'sentences'. CSS works at the level of the document structure, rather than at the lower level of text and specific characters. The 'wobbly' definition of 'a sentence' may well cause problems, particuarly across language boundaries. I couldn't actually find a reference to APA that mentioned this double space requirement - do you have a pointer? Regards, - Bobby First, before someone else points it out, I profusely apologize for top-posting. I've rearranged the posts to try to right my wrong. I think the CSS 'white-space: pre' might work for me, since I usually do grep search and replace to get rid of things like extra white spaces and tabs. Thanks for the idea. And yes, you can read about the APA's return to two spaces at the end of sentences at http://www.apastyle.org/manual/whats-new.aspx Scroll down just below the Chapter 4 subheading. __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Deprecations in recent versions of HTML cause C SS problems
--- On Wed, 2/10/10, fred dagg rickdu...@hotmail.co.nz wrote:
For example: given an in-line citation such as (McConnell,
2002) in an academic/scientific paper, the bibliographic
reference might be:
McConnell, S. (July, 2002) The Business of Software
Improvement. IEEE Software pp. 5-7
Note that, in the one line, part (the title) is to be
underlined, part (the journal title) to be itallicized and
the remainder in normal face font.
I can't see any way to perform the process using CSS.
Perhaps someone can help with that. Thanks.
No-one's really addressed the original issue - that of the markup - possibly
because it didn't come through cleanly in your post, Fred. Maybe you can try
again (and ensure you're posting in plain text).
There are - broadly speaking - 3 options that I can think of:
Presentational markup:
McConnell, S. (July, 2002) uThe Business of Software Improvement/u. iIEEE
Software/i pp. 5-7
This has all the disadvantages associated with presentational markup that have
led to the W3C discouraging these kinds of elements.
Semantic markup using specific elements:
McConnell, S. (July, 2002) strongThe Business of Software
Improvement/strong. emIEEE Software/em pp. 5-7
And targeting them via CSS (e.g. strong { font-weight: normal; text-decoration:
underline; } em { font-style: italic; }) - presumably the entire citation would
sit in an element with its own class (quite possibly a list item if this is in
a references section at the foot of the document) which should be included in
those selectors. Alternatively, you could use class names on the individual
strong/em elements, in a very similar way to:
Semantic markup using generic elements:
McConnell, S. (July, 2002) span class=article-titleThe Business of Software
Improvement/span. span class=journal-titleIEEE Software/span pp. 5-7
This is, indeed, quite a bit more typing than the presentational approach, but
the associated downsides depend on how you're entering this data in the first
place. If you're using a CMS, rather than marking-up your documents by hand,
the time taken to type those extra characters should be mitigated.
Do any of those approaches work for you?
- Bobby
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Re: [css-d] Deprecations in recent versions of HTML cause C SS problems
On 2/10/10 6:50 AM, Bobby Jack wrote:
--- On Wed, 2/10/10, fred daggrickdu...@hotmail.co.nz wrote:
For example: given an in-line citation such as (McConnell, 2002) in
an academic/scientific paper, the bibliographic reference might
be:
McConnell, S. (July, 2002) The Business of Software Improvement.
IEEE Software pp. 5-7
Note that, in the one line, part (the title) is to be underlined,
part (the journal title) to be itallicized and the remainder in
normal face font.
Semantic markup using generic elements:
McConnell, S. (July, 2002)span class=article-titleThe Business of
Software Improvement/span.span class=journal-titleIEEE
Software/span pp. 5-7
Umm. Wouldn't the cite element be more semantic?
To bring this back to CSS, I have noticed that most browsers style
cite with italics, but I came across at least one that did not. (Can't
remember which.)
So I suggest adding this rule to your style sheet:
cite { font-style: italic; }
Cordially,
David
--
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Re: [css-d] Deprecations in recent versions of HTML cause C SS problems
One thing you must consider, too, is that on the web, you should only underline something that is an actual link, so you must find other ways to accomplish the intent of your cites. You may need to use quotes instead, except that book titles are not quoted. In APA style, book titles are italicized. Easy enough. Newspapers? Italicized. Magazines? Italicized. In fact, based on this article... http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/560/02/ ...if you do not have the option of underlining and inline citation, you may italicize. You may need to contact the APA for more direction as to styling cites for the web. Theresa On Feb 9, 2010, at 6:23 PM, fred dagg wrote: As a learner when it comes to HTML/CSS I am a little confused about (apparently) recent changes to HTML, moving functionality to CSS. As an academic I have been required to reference others' work in my publications according to one style or another (by default I use APA5). In transferring these works to webpages some problems are presented. For example: given an in-line citation such as (McConnell, 2002) in an academic/scientific paper, the bibliographic reference might be: McConnell, S. (July, 2002) The Business of Software Improvement. IEEE Software pp. 5-7 Note that, in the one line, part (the title) is to be underlined, part (the journal title) to be itallicized and the remainder in normal face font. Since was deprecated in HTML, apparently because it was considered to be a presentation issue rather than one of content, this formatting in validated HTML 4.01 becomes clumsy. The only way I know of to do this involves: The Business of Software Improvement which is considerably more typing. I can't see any way to perform the process using CSS. Perhaps someone can help with that. Thanks. _ Feeling the financial pinch? Check on MSN NZ Money for a hand http://money.msn.co.nz __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Deprecations in recent versions of HTML cause C SS problems
On 2010-02-09 8:23 PM, fred dagg wrote: As an academic I have been required to reference others' work in my publications according to one style or another http://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/tools_citationguide.html ...offers a large variety of examples. One of them might be right for you. -- Brian __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
