Re: [css-d] Firefox wont align content in a table properly -- SAFARI issue

[Matthew]

I apologize to Philippe and the rest of board for sounding petty, snarky and 
defensive in my last message from last night. I'm frustrated and I came off as 
such. 

I do appreciate the help.

- Matthew


On Jun 2, 2010, at 12:20 AM, Alan Gresley wrote:

> Matthew wrote:
>> On Jun 1, 2010, at 7:56 PM, Philippe Wittenbergh wrote:
>>> On Jun 2, 2010, at 7:14 AM, Matthew wrote:
>>> 
 In other browsers it seem that the proper setting is
 
> td {
>   padding-left: 40px;
> }
 
 
 but in Safari, this makes the content in the table appear too far to the 
 left. In Safari this must be set to 16px.
 
 If you have Safari and can check out: http://em-w.com/resume.html
 
 you'll see what I mean. Does anyone have any ideas?
>>> Dunno, I would start with this:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Philippe
>>> ---
>>> Philippe Wittenbergh
>>> http://l-c-n.com/
>> Is this the "how dare you make so many HTML/CSS violations and still seek 
>> our knowledge?!?!11?" missive?
>> If so, sorry for wasting your time. If not, please help me understand why my 
>> site doesn't work in Safari. Your message does nothing to help! Thanks!
>> The eternal CSS n00b,
>> Matthew
> 
> 
> We can not know fully if the cause of the trouble is a rendering error or if 
> the difference is due to browser recovery of mangled HTML. Each browser has a 
> different recovery mode.
> 
> In you current HTML, you have list items  that are not enclosed with 
> either a  or .
> 
> 
> Quark/InDesign
> 
> 
> Do you suggest that we create a test case to see if Safari handles this 
> invalid HTML differently. This is the first thing we would do anyway.
> 
> 
> BTW, Philippe provides great help on this list and he like the rest of us are 
> willing to help.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Alan http://css-class.com/
> 
> Armies Cannot Stop An Idea Whose Time Has Come. - Victor Hugo

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Re: [css-d] Firefox wont align content in a table properly -- SAFARI issue

[russ]

This is very good advice. I spent about 4 hours last week trying to get a 
site to behave. It just didn't make any sense that it wasn't working. 
Finally, I decided to validate the site. There was nothing wrong with the 
CSS, but there was a missing character in my HTML that was not caught by the 
Error Console. Problem solved.

Russ M

>
> Expecting you to validate your site (HTML and CSS) as a precursor to
> offering other help is a very reasonable request. Take it, you will like
> the results.
>
> Bill B

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Re: [css-d] Firefox wont align content in a table properly --SAFARI issue

[JWN]

Morning Mathew

You wrote
- Original Message - >>> but in Safari, this makes the content in 
the table appear too far to the left. In Safari this must be set to 16px.
>>>
>>> If you have Safari and can check out: http://em-w.com/resume.html
>>>
>>> you'll see what I mean. Does anyone have any ideas?

And Phillippe wrote

>>
>> Dunno, I would start with this:
>> 
>>
>> Philippe
>> ---

And you replied

> Is this the "how dare you make so many HTML/CSS violations and still seek 
> our knowledge?!?!11?" missive?
>
> If so, sorry for wasting your time. If not, please help me understand why 
> my site doesn't work in Safari. Your message does nothing to help! Thanks!
>
> The eternal CSS n00b,
> Matthew


You might want to read this old nugget of wisdom from DiveinMark.org

http://diveintomark.org/archives/2003/05/05/why_we_wont_help_you

As others will note, (or have noted) validation is not the end all be all, 
but it is a good first step to getting help here or elsewhere.

Best

Jim Nannery
www.oldcurmudgeon.net

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Re: [css-d] Firefox wont align content in a table properly -- SAFARI issue

[Bill Braun]

Matthew wrote:
> Is this the "how dare you make so many HTML/CSS violations and still 
> seek our knowledge?!?!11?" missive?
> If so, sorry for wasting your time. If not, please help me understand why my 
> site doesn't work in Safari. Your message does nothing to help! Thanks!
>
> The eternal CSS n00b,
> Matthew
>   

It may or may not be, depending on your interpretation.

Inclusive of your feelings on the subject, validating your site it is 
excellent advice. Seeking knowledge is just fine, but rejecting part of 
that knowledge (validating your site first) and expecting people to sort 
through an unvalidated site to help you fix your problem is off course.

You are coming across as cherry picking the knowledge you think you want 
and then getting testy when people challenge you on that.

Expecting you to validate your site (HTML and CSS) as a precursor to 
offering other help is a very reasonable request. Take it, you will like 
the results.

Bill B

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Re: [css-d] Firefox wont align content in a table properly -- SAFARI issue

[David Hucklesby]

On 6/1/10 8:47 PM, Matthew wrote:
>
> On Jun 1, 2010, at 7:56 PM, Philippe Wittenbergh wrote:
>
[code etc. snipped]
>>
>> Dunno, I would start with this:
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>
Philippe
>> --- Philippe Wittenbergh http://l-c-n.com/
>
>
> Is this the "how dare you make so many HTML/CSS violations and still
> seek our knowledge?!?!11?" missive?
>
> If so, sorry for wasting your time. If not, please help me
> understand why my site doesn't work in Safari. Your message does
> nothing to help! Thanks!
>
> The eternal CSS n00b, Matthew

This makes me angry. Matthew, several of us have offered ideas to solve
your problem, of which validating your code is an excellent and useful
one, IMHO.

Such a churlish reply to our efforts would surely get you banned from
less forgiving lists.

Please reconsider your attitude. Apologies will be accepted--by me,
anyway. Thanks in advance.

Sincerely,
David
--
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Re: [css-d] Firefox wont align content in a table properly -- SAFARI issue

[Peter Bradley]

Ar 02/06/10 04:47, ysgrifennodd Matthew :
>
> Is this the "how dare you make so many HTML/CSS violations and still seek our 
> knowledge?!?!11?" missive?
>
>

Well, in my opinion, no.  If your code does not validate it may well be 
that that is the cause of your problem.  It's certainly the first place 
I would look.

Just out of interest, I wonder why you think that suggesting you have 
valid markup is a kind of bureaucratic entrance exam rather than a 
genuine suggestion as to how you might solve your problem (or at least 
get a handle on it)?  Do you know why it is desirable to have valid markup?

Cheers



Peter

-- 
http://www.peredur.net

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Re: [css-d] Firefox wont align content in a table properly -- SAFARI issue

[Theresa Mesa]

On Jun 1, 2010, at 8:47 PM, Matthew wrote:

> 
> 
> Is this the "how dare you make so many HTML/CSS violations and still seek our 
> knowledge?!?!11?" missive?
> 
> If so, sorry for wasting your time. If not, please help me understand why my 
> site doesn't work in Safari. Your message does nothing to help! Thanks!
> 
> The eternal CSS n00b,
> Matthew
> _

But validation problems can make the page not work in certain browsers. It's a 
valid concern to validate your page.

Before you even work in CSS, you *have* to have a good grasp of HTML. If you 
have a good grasp of it, then correcting the errors in your code should be a 
piece of cake, and will make the page more likely to work in Safari and in 
other browsers on both platforms. Safari is really not that difficult to make 
behave.

CSS and HTML work in concert with each other. CSS does not operate in a vacuum. 
Once you get a handle on your HTML too, you will be that much closer to no 
longer being a CSS n00b.

I'm no expert, but I'm no n00b, either. I spend about half my time working in 
print, so I get out of practice with coding. I make some dumb mistakes, but 
they're rarely because I did something that would make my HTML and CSS code not 
validate. It's also a lot easier to get help from others when I'm not making 
the people I'm asking for help from to do EXTRA work to try to figure out where 
my code is hiccuping. They're helping out of the goodness of their hearts. The 
least I can do is make sure I'm not making extra work for them. If I do, I 
can't be surprised if they don't help me at all. They're busy building sites 
themselves.

Theresa
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Re: [css-d] Firefox wont align content in a table properly -- SAFARI issue

[Alan Gresley]

Matthew wrote:
> On Jun 1, 2010, at 7:56 PM, Philippe Wittenbergh wrote:
> 
>> On Jun 2, 2010, at 7:14 AM, Matthew wrote:
>>
>>> In other browsers it seem that the proper setting is
>>>
 td {
padding-left: 40px;
 }
>>>
>>>
>>> but in Safari, this makes the content in the table appear too far to the 
>>> left. In Safari this must be set to 16px.
>>>
>>> If you have Safari and can check out: http://em-w.com/resume.html
>>>
>>> you'll see what I mean. Does anyone have any ideas?
>> Dunno, I would start with this:
>> 
>>
>> Philippe
>> ---
>> Philippe Wittenbergh
>> http://l-c-n.com/
> 
> 
> Is this the "how dare you make so many HTML/CSS violations and still seek our 
> knowledge?!?!11?" missive?
> 
> If so, sorry for wasting your time. If not, please help me understand why my 
> site doesn't work in Safari. Your message does nothing to help! Thanks!
> 
> The eternal CSS n00b,
> Matthew


We can not know fully if the cause of the trouble is a rendering error 
or if the difference is due to browser recovery of mangled HTML. Each 
browser has a different recovery mode.

In you current HTML, you have list items  that are not enclosed 
with either a  or .


Quark/InDesign


Do you suggest that we create a test case to see if Safari handles 
this invalid HTML differently. This is the first thing we would do anyway.


BTW, Philippe provides great help on this list and he like the rest of 
us are willing to help.


-- 
Alan http://css-class.com/

Armies Cannot Stop An Idea Whose Time Has Come. - Victor Hugo
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Re: [css-d] Firefox wont align content in a table properly -- SAFARI issue

[Matthew]

On Jun 1, 2010, at 7:56 PM, Philippe Wittenbergh wrote:

> 
> On Jun 2, 2010, at 7:14 AM, Matthew wrote:
> 
>> In other browsers it seem that the proper setting is
>> 
>>> td {
>>> padding-left: 40px;
>>> }
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> but in Safari, this makes the content in the table appear too far to the 
>> left. In Safari this must be set to 16px.
>> 
>> If you have Safari and can check out: http://em-w.com/resume.html
>> 
>> you'll see what I mean. Does anyone have any ideas?
> 
> Dunno, I would start with this:
> 
> 
> Philippe
> ---
> Philippe Wittenbergh
> http://l-c-n.com/


Is this the "how dare you make so many HTML/CSS violations and still seek our 
knowledge?!?!11?" missive?

If so, sorry for wasting your time. If not, please help me understand why my 
site doesn't work in Safari. Your message does nothing to help! Thanks!

The eternal CSS n00b,
Matthew
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Re: [css-d] Firefox wont align content in a table properly -- SAFARI issue

[Philippe Wittenbergh]

On Jun 2, 2010, at 7:14 AM, Matthew wrote:

> In other browsers it seem that the proper setting is
> 
>> td {
>>  padding-left: 40px;
>> }
> 
> 
> 
> but in Safari, this makes the content in the table appear too far to the 
> left. In Safari this must be set to 16px.
> 
> If you have Safari and can check out: http://em-w.com/resume.html
> 
> you'll see what I mean. Does anyone have any ideas?

Dunno, I would start with this:


Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh
http://l-c-n.com/





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Re: [css-d] Firefox wont align content in a table properly -- SAFARI issue

[Matthew]

Hi Jay and everyone,

It turns out this does help, as I can now manipulate the spacing across 
different platforms. However there is still an issue with Safari.

In other browsers it seem that the proper setting is

> td {
>   padding-left: 40px;
> }



but in Safari, this makes the content in the table appear too far to the left. 
In Safari this must be set to 16px.

If you have Safari and can check out: http://em-w.com/resume.html

you'll see what I mean. Does anyone have any ideas?

Thank you!
Matthew


On Jun 1, 2010, at 5:02 PM, Jay Tanna wrote:

> Try to put the following code at the end of your css:
> 
> 
> 
> td {
>   padding-left: 16px;
> }
> 
> 
> 
> Effectively, I am padding the left side by 16px.  You will need to readjust 
> this figure.
> 
> Incidentally, I tested your site in Firefox 3.6.3 and IE8 and both are 
> showing identical and the data is misalligned in both.
> 
> Hope this gives you an idea.  
> 
> 
> 
> --- On Tue, 6/1/10, Matthew  wrote:
> 
> 
>> I've set up a table which is supposed to line up with
>> content about and below it that is formatted as unordered
>> list elements. To do this, I gave the table a left margin
>> quality in CSS. This seemed to work fine, but unfortunately,
>> I noticed that in Firefox the table wasn't lined up
>> correctly. So I added an empty first column with a fixed
>> width to the table. Again this shows up fine in other
>> browsers, but in Firefox (Mac) the text again is misaligned.
>> Is there a trick to get Firefox to behave in this
>> situation?
>> 
>> Here is the page I'm working on
>> 
>> http://em-w.com/resume.html
>> 
>> You can see my problem if you compare the content under the
>> "tools" section in Firefox versus other broswer.
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

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