Re: [css-d] Font-Sizes - Golden Rule ?
Den 10.04.2014 02:33, skrev Crest Christopher: I thought Opera went to webkit, or is Blink just another term for webkit ? WebKit is a branch of the KDE open source project, and so is Blink. Google and Opera decided not all that long ago to split from WebKit, and called their engine-version Blink. Although right now we can hardly distinguish Blink from WebKit, over time differences will start to show up. For instance a differnt way to test out new solutions, where WebKit based browsers probably will continue to use vendor-specific extensions that we web coders can choose to use. Blink based browsers OTOH have started to incorporate tests of new solutions in a way that lets the individual end-user decide if s/he want to try them out or not -- fewer and fewer vendor-specific extensions for us coders to use and worry about in Blink. In addition to differences between WebKit and Blink showing up, I have also observed minor differences between Blink-implementations in Google Chrome and Opera. Whether or not that over time will lead to another engine-split, is too early to tell. regards Georg __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Font-Sizes - Golden Rule ?
On 2014-04-09 20:33 (GMT-0400) Crest Christopher composed: I thought Opera went to webkit, or is Blink just another term for webkit ? WebKit is a fork of KHTML. Blink is a fork of WebKit. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_%28software_development%29 -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Font-Sizes - Golden Rule ?
I thought Opera went to webkit, or is Blink just another term for webkit ? Georg wrote: Den 09.04.2014 17:00, skrev GJim: I have found an issue with Opera (v12.16 is installed) when using 'small' vs %. Note that Opera v/12.16 uses the old Presto engine, for which all development is frosen/ended. A good browser, but no good designing for/in it anymore. Download Opera 20+ that uses the Blink engine, same as Google Chrome 32+ and with very few differences from this in how it renders anything. regards Georg __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Font-Sizes - Golden Rule ?
Howdy Philip,
~~~
Wednesday, April 9, 2014, 1:37:54 PM (USA 'Somewhere on-the-road time-zone'),
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~~~
> I /think/ I would check whether my site statistics had been
> updated this millenium, if I were you ...
> Philip Taylor
They are updated daily, with monthly summaries.
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Re: [css-d] Font-Sizes - Golden Rule ?
Opps, forgot to add this: Yes, if you use REM the value will stay consistent with the value of font-size set on root element. If you use a percentage for the root element's font-size your other font-sizes will vary depending on the browser's default font size setting...Some have no problem with that, others do. > On April 9, 2014 at 12:05 PM Shari wrote: > > > If you use rem's it stays consistent from the body tag... correct? > > Shari > __ > css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] > http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d > List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ > List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html > Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Font-Sizes - Golden Rule ?
Not not correct - The value of a REM is taken from the font-size of the root element...thus the HTML element, not the BODY element. > On April 9, 2014 at 12:05 PM Shari wrote: > > > If you use rem's it stays consistent from the body tag... correct? > > Shari > __ > css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] > http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d > List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ > List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html > Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Font-Sizes - Golden Rule ?
Howdy Georg,
~~~
Wednesday, April 9, 2014, 1:09:22 PM (USA 'Somewhere on-the-road time-zone'),
you wrote the message that appears below.
My reply appears here and/or interspersed within your message.
~~~
> Note that Opera v/12.16 uses the old Presto engine, for which all
> development is frosen/ended. A good browser, but no good designing
> for/in it anymore.
> Download Opera 20+ that uses the Blink engine, same as Google Chrome 32+
> and with very few differences from this in how it renders anything.
> regards
> Georg
Thanks for that info. Have downloaded Opera 20 and will use that to test with,
going forward. I may very well have site visitors using older versions of Opera
- according to site stats, I have visitors still using IE3!
G'Jim c):{-
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Re: [css-d] Font-Sizes - Golden Rule ?
GJim wrote: according to site stats, I have visitors still using IE3! I /think/ I would check whether my site statistics had been updated this millenium, if I were you ... Philip Taylor __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Font-Sizes - Golden Rule ?
Den 09.04.2014 17:00, skrev GJim: I have found an issue with Opera (v12.16 is installed) when using 'small' vs %. Note that Opera v/12.16 uses the old Presto engine, for which all development is frosen/ended. A good browser, but no good designing for/in it anymore. Download Opera 20+ that uses the Blink engine, same as Google Chrome 32+ and with very few differences from this in how it renders anything. regards Georg __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Font-Sizes - Golden Rule ?
Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 9, 2014, at 12:05 PM, Shari wrote: > > If you use rem's it stays consistent from the body tag... correct? Correct. It is relative to the root. > > Shari > __ > css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] > http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d > List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ > List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html > Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Font-Sizes - Golden Rule ?
If you use rem's it stays consistent from the body tag... correct? Shari __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Font-Sizes - Golden Rule ?
>How did you calculate 100% = 1em ? That's the definition in the spec. "On the 'font-size' property, [ems] refer to the computed font size of the parent element." So 1em equals the font-size of the parent element. And "[percentages] refer to inherited font-size." The inherited font size of an element is the font-size of the parent element. So 100% equals the font-size of the parent element. Therefore, 1em = 100% = the font-size of the parent element. ---Tim __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Font-Sizes - Golden Rule ?
On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Tim Climis wrote:
>>> How did you calculate 100% = 1em ?
>>> Mostly everyone used, including myself pixels for box sizing, I hope you
> were referring to creating a DIV as in box sizing ? What do you mean by
> "percentages are based on browser size" ?
>>>
(although, it would be kind of fun if 100% resulted in letters
hundreds of pixels high...)
---Tim
>>>
>
>> I think percentages are based on their parents size and not the browser.
>> Correct me if I am wrong.
>
> You are correct (except for the exceptions mentioned later by other people),
> and of course for fonts.
>
> The original question was about fonts. None of the box-model percent sizing
> tangents matter. My comment was based on this from the OP:
>
>> percentages from what I know are relative to the browser size
>
> And that's only remotely true in the context of boxes.
>
> For example, if I have a rule that says
> body {
> font-size: 50%;
> width: 50%;
> }
I'll add that ems and % for font sizes will compound.
Hi
There
A rule of li{font-size: 50%;} for the above will cause "Hi" to be 1/2
the size of it's parent (or browser default) and "There" will be 1/2
the size of "Hi".
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Re: [css-d] Font-Sizes - Golden Rule ?
>> How did you calculate 100% = 1em ?
>> Mostly everyone used, including myself pixels for box sizing, I hope you
were referring to creating a DIV as in box sizing ? What do you mean by
"percentages are based on browser size" ?
>>
>>> (although, it would be kind of fun if 100% resulted in letters
>>> hundreds of pixels high...)
>>>
>>> ---Tim
>>
> I think percentages are based on their parents size and not the browser.
> Correct me if I am wrong.
You are correct (except for the exceptions mentioned later by other people),
and of course for fonts.
The original question was about fonts. None of the box-model percent sizing
tangents matter. My comment was based on this from the OP:
> percentages from what I know are relative to the browser size
And that's only remotely true in the context of boxes.
For example, if I have a rule that says
body {
font-size: 50%;
width: 50%;
}
My font size is 8px (assuming browser defaults). But my body width is NOT
8px. It is in fact half of my browser width. And so my point, which is
still valid, is that font percent and other percent are not the same thing.
---Tim
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Re: [css-d] Font-Sizes - Golden Rule ?
Howdy Crest,
~~~
Tuesday, April 8, 2014, 9:24:14 PM (USA 'Somewhere on-the-road time-zone'),
you wrote the message that appears below.
My reply appears here and/or interspersed within your message.
~~~
> Em are the best solution for font-sizes, from everything that I know.
> Pixels I don't know if pixels should be used at all and percentages from
> what I know are relative to the browser size, is this correct or am I
> mis-understanding something.
Newbie here, have been a member for only a few days.
I had been using 'small', or 'medium', for general text and links, and then %
for other (larger, i.e. h1, h2, &c.) elements.
I use Firefox as my main browser, but also keep latest versions of IE, Opera,
Chrome, Safari, and Maxthon for testing.
I have found an issue with Opera (v12.16 is installed) when using 'small' vs %.
Using 'small', when viewing a site in a less-than-full-screen window, decreasing
the width of the window can lead to a link text wrapping rather than
proportionally shrinking with the column. If I define the link text as '87.5%',
the link does not wrap, but shrinks as I would want/expect.
I do not see this action in other browsers - all the others that I test with
keep the link proportional and it does not wrap.
Link, to see this in action:
http://www.rmaba.org/rmaba_members2014.html
Using Opera, shrink horizontal width and watch the link titled 'Colorado Springs
Area', in the right-hand column. At the moment, text in that box is defined as
'small'. If I change that to '87.5%', then that link text will not wrap - the
same as occurs in other browsers regardless of using 'small' or the %.
G'Jim c):{-
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Re: [css-d] Font-Sizes - Golden Rule ?
Le 9 avr. 2014 à 15:48, Karl DeSaulniers a écrit : > Looks like there are some exceptions. Have a look see... > There ARE a few that took on the browser width, but the majority stuck with > their parent. > > http://designdrumm.com/percentage_test.html 1. An element that is position: absolute with a percentage width takes its width from its nearest _positioned_ parent [ex1] else from the root element [ex2] see: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/visudet.html#propdef-width http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/visudet.html#abs-non-replaced-width [ex1] // computed value for width: 5em [ex2] // computed value for width: half the width of the browser window For ultimate fun in this: [ex3] // no width specified, shrink-to-fit // computed value for width: undefined 2. An element that has position:absolute and float: left (or right) will have as computed value: float: none; see http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/visuren.html#dis-pos-flo (bullet point 2) Philippe -- Philippe Wittenbergh http://l-c-n.com __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Font-Sizes - Golden Rule ?
apr 9 2014 08:48 Karl DeSaulniers : > Looks like there are some exceptions. Have a look see... > There ARE a few that took on the browser width, but the majority stuck with > their parent. > > http://designdrumm.com/percentage_test.html Which are the exceptions you mean? __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Font-Sizes - Golden Rule ?
On Apr 9, 2014, at 12:07 AM, Karl DeSaulniers wrote: > > On Apr 9, 2014, at 12:04 AM, Karl DeSaulniers wrote: > >> On Apr 9, 2014, at 12:01 AM, Crest Christopher >> wrote: >> > I think percentages are based on their parents size and not the browser. >>> What do you mean ? >>> >>> Karl DeSaulniers wrote: I think percentages are based on their parents size and not the browser. Correct me if I am wrong. Best, Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com >> >> >> I mean that when you set say a width of 50% to a paragraph that is in a div >> that has a width of 110px, the paragragraph is going to be 50% of 110px and >> not the browser window. >> >> Karl DeSaulniers >> Design Drumm >> http://designdrumm.com > > Although, I think there may be an exception to that rule when mixing in > absolute positioning and floating. But not 100% on that. > > Best, > > Karl DeSaulniers > Design Drumm > http://designdrumm.com Looks like there are some exceptions. Have a look see... There ARE a few that took on the browser width, but the majority stuck with their parent. http://designdrumm.com/percentage_test.html Best, Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Font-Sizes - Golden Rule ?
On Apr 9, 2014, at 12:04 AM, Karl DeSaulniers wrote: > On Apr 9, 2014, at 12:01 AM, Crest Christopher > wrote: > I think percentages are based on their parents size and not the browser. >> What do you mean ? >> >> Karl DeSaulniers wrote: >>> >>> >>> I think percentages are based on their parents size and not the browser. >>> Correct me if I am wrong. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Karl DeSaulniers >>> Design Drumm >>> http://designdrumm.com > > > I mean that when you set say a width of 50% to a paragraph that is in a div > that has a width of 110px, the paragragraph is going to be 50% of 110px and > not the browser window. > > Karl DeSaulniers > Design Drumm > http://designdrumm.com Although, I think there may be an exception to that rule when mixing in absolute positioning and floating. But not 100% on that. Best, Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Font-Sizes - Golden Rule ?
On Apr 9, 2014, at 12:01 AM, Crest Christopher wrote: > >> I think percentages are based on their parents size and not the browser. > What do you mean ? > > Karl DeSaulniers wrote: >> >> >> I think percentages are based on their parents size and not the browser. >> Correct me if I am wrong. >> >> Best, >> >> Karl DeSaulniers >> Design Drumm >> http://designdrumm.com I mean that when you set say a width of 50% to a paragraph that is in a div that has a width of 110px, the paragragraph is going to be 50% of 110px and not the browser window. Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Font-Sizes - Golden Rule ?
>> I think percentages are based on their parents size and not the browser. What do you mean ? Karl DeSaulniers wrote: On Apr 8, 2014, at 11:02 PM, Crest Christopher wrote: Tim Climis wrote: On Tuesday, April 08, 2014 10:24:14 PM Crest Christopher wrote: Em are the best solution for font-sizes, from everything that I know. Pixels I don't know if pixels should be used at all and percentages from what I know are relative to the browser size, is this correct or am I mis-understanding something. For box sizing, percentages are based on browser size. But fonts don't work like box-sizing. for fonts, 100% = 1em. 120% = 1.2em. 90% = .9em, etc. So which one you use is up to personal preference. How did you calculate 100% = 1em ? Mostly everyone used, including myself pixels for box sizing, I hope you were referring to creating a DIV as in box sizing ? What do you mean by "percentages are based on browser size" ? (although, it would be kind of fun if 100% resulted in letters hundreds of pixels high...) ---Tim I think percentages are based on their parents size and not the browser. Correct me if I am wrong. Best, Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Font-Sizes - Golden Rule ?
On Apr 8, 2014, at 11:02 PM, Crest Christopher wrote: > > > Tim Climis wrote: >> >> On Tuesday, April 08, 2014 10:24:14 PM Crest Christopher wrote: >> >> > Em are the best solution for font-sizes, from everything that I know. >> >> > Pixels I don't know if pixels should be used at all and percentages from >> >> > what I know are relative to the browser size, is this correct or am I >> >> > mis-understanding something. >> >> For box sizing, percentages are based on browser size. But fonts don't work >> like box-sizing. for fonts, 100% = 1em. 120% = 1.2em. 90% = .9em, etc. So >> which one you use is up to personal preference. >> > > How did you calculate 100% = 1em ? > Mostly everyone used, including myself pixels for box sizing, I hope you were > referring to creating a DIV as in box sizing ? What do you mean by > "percentages are based on browser size" ? > >> (although, it would be kind of fun if 100% resulted in letters hundreds of >> pixels high...) >> >> ---Tim > I think percentages are based on their parents size and not the browser. Correct me if I am wrong. Best, Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Font-Sizes - Golden Rule ?
Tim Climis wrote: On Tuesday, April 08, 2014 10:24:14 PM Crest Christopher wrote: > Em are the best solution for font-sizes, from everything that I know. > Pixels I don't know if pixels should be used at all and percentages from > what I know are relative to the browser size, is this correct or am I > mis-understanding something. For box sizing, percentages are based on browser size. But fonts don't work like box-sizing. for fonts, 100% = 1em. 120% = 1.2em. 90% = .9em, etc. So which one you use is up to personal preference. How did you calculate 100% = 1em ? Mostly everyone used, including myself pixels for box sizing, I hope you were referring to creating a DIV as in box sizing ? What do you mean by "percentages are based on browser size" ? (although, it would be kind of fun if 100% resulted in letters hundreds of pixels high...) ---Tim __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Font-Sizes - Golden Rule ?
On Tuesday, April 08, 2014 10:24:14 PM Crest Christopher wrote: > Em are the best solution for font-sizes, from everything that I know. > Pixels I don't know if pixels should be used at all and percentages from > what I know are relative to the browser size, is this correct or am I > mis-understanding something. For box sizing, percentages are based on browser size. But fonts don't work like box-sizing. for fonts, 100% = 1em. 120% = 1.2em. 90% = .9em, etc. So which one you use is up to personal preference. (although, it would be kind of fun if 100% resulted in letters hundreds of pixels high...) ---Tim __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] Font-Sizes - Golden Rule ?
Em are the best solution for font-sizes, from everything that I know.
Pixels I don't know if pixels should be used at all and percentages from
what I know are relative to the browser size, is this correct or am I
mis-understanding something.
I'm not studying typography, maybe there are some on this list that are
typography experts that could give me a long explanation, that is not
what I'm after. What I want to know is the differences and when to use
each one, and is there one, whether it's px or percentages that should
be used the least ?
Thanks everyone and I want to say thanks to the list who have helped me
even though they are extremely busy :)
p.one {font-size:3em;}
p.two {font-size:34px;}
p.three {font-size:34%;}
The Witch should go under a rock
The Witch should go under a rock
The Wtich should go under a rock
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