Re: [css-d] Recreating the Facebook layout
On 5 June 2011 14:38, Felix Miata mrma...@earthlink.net wrote: On 2011/06/05 12:30 (GMT+0100) Barney Carroll composed: Sadly the only lesson we can take from this is that Tahoma has too little in the way of letter-spacing to make for a pleasant web font. Tahoma looks to me like little but Verdana with letter spacing reduced to nil and glyphs squeezed a tad. If Tahoma is something you really like, give DejaVu Sans Condensed a try. DejaVu Sans Condensed is an absolutely lovely font and it's worth noting that the whole DejaVu set can be @font-face embedded without legal worries. Having said that Tahoma has more complex (and, IMO, more distracting and readability-imparing) curves and tighter eyes that give it extra visible 'detail' — in that respect I'd recommend Lucida Sans Unicode as an alternative to Tahoma — that's Sans Unicode as opposed to Grande, which renders horrific on screen (particularly on PC). Regards, Barney Carroll barney.carr...@gmail.com 07594 506 381 __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Recreating the Facebook layout
On 2011/06/06 12:46 (GMT+0100) Barney Carroll composed: I'd recommend Lucida Sans Unicode as an alternative to Tahoma — that's Sans Unicode as opposed to Grande, which renders horrific on screen (particularly on PC). I don't remember being able to notice any differences between Lucida Grande and Lucida Sans Unicode on any machine I had both installed on, though I've not checked in a while. OTOH, you probably won't find Grande on any system that doesn't have Safari installed unless you put it there yourself. Note, I never run Windows except with Cleartype enabled. -- The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive. Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Recreating the Facebook layout
Felix Miata wrote: I don't remember being able to notice any differences between Lucida Grande and Lucida Sans Unicode on any machine I had both installed on, though I've not checked in a while. OTOH, you probably won't find Grande on any system that doesn't have Safari installed unless you put it there yourself. Note, I never run Windows except with Cleartype enabled. In my experience, exactly the opposite. Based on well-meant advice, I installed Lucida Grande for Windows/XP; results -- unreadable web pages. Lucida Sans Unicode I use all the time, with zero problems. Philip Taylor __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Recreating the Facebook layout
Charles, The problem with letter-spacing is that it will only acknowledge whole-pixel differences, which is usually far too large a scale for copy text. I feel your pain — I've often wanted to minutely adjust this for the sake of readability. Sadly the only lesson we can take from this is that Tahoma has too little in the way of letter-spacing to make for a pleasant web font. Regards, Barney Carroll barney.carr...@gmail.com 07594 506 381 __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Recreating the Facebook layout
On 2011/06/05 12:30 (GMT+0100) Barney Carroll composed: Sadly the only lesson we can take from this is that Tahoma has too little in the way of letter-spacing to make for a pleasant web font. Tahoma looks to me like little but Verdana with letter spacing reduced to nil and glyphs squeezed a tad. If Tahoma is something you really like, give DejaVu Sans Condensed a try. -- The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive. Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] Recreating the Facebook layout
Hi list! Facebook has a fixed-width layout so I decided to recreate its layout using percentages: http://onwebdev.blogspot.com/2011/06/css-facebook-layout.html As always, if you notice anything strange on IE, please report the problem and the fix (if any). Remember, I'm on a Mac. :-) HTH :-) Gabriele Romanato http://www.css-zibaldone.com http://www.css-zibaldone.com/test/ (English) http://www.css-zibaldone.com/articles/ (English) http://onwebdev.blogspot.com/ (English) __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Recreating the Facebook layout
On 6/4/11 5:46 AM, Gabriele Romanato wrote: Facebook has a fixed-width layout so I decided to recreate its layout using percentages: http://onwebdev.blogspot.com/2011/06/css-facebook-layout.html Gabriele Romanato I guess its okay unless you bump into a maverick user. I did not look at it in any ver IE... Best, ~d PS 16 minimum font-size FF; 32 minimum font-size Opera. -- http://chelseacreekstudio.com/ http://chelseacreekstudio.com/fa/ __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Recreating the Facebook layout
On Jun 4, 2011, at 4:46 AM, Gabriele Romanato wrote: As always, if you notice anything strange In my Mac's Safari (latest version) and Firefox (latest version), I noticed a small detail I've noticed on sites I'm working on. The letter-spacing for text is IMHO a bit too tight. Reading on a monitor, I prefer a bit more. But when I try to adjust letter spacing, it doesn't work. That is, I've tried adding small values, increasing with each try - and saw no result. Then suddenly the text will jump to letter spacing so pronounced that the wind blows between the letters. (Well, at least, more than I want.) I think I asked about that someplace, and I think the answer may have been that letter spacing was best avoided, because browsers handle it neither consistently nor well. This list is more precise than most. Should I just accept default letter spacing and move my thoughts elsewhere? Chuck M __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Recreating the Facebook layout
On 6/4/11 10:21 AM, Charles Miller wrote: On Jun 4, 2011, at 4:46 AM, Gabriele Romanato wrote: As always, if you notice anything strange In my Mac's Safari (latest version) and Firefox (latest version), I noticed a small detail I've noticed on sites I'm working on. The letter-spacing for text is IMHO a bit too tight. Reading on a monitor, I prefer a bit more. But when I try to adjust letter spacing, it doesn't work. That is, I've tried adding small values, increasing with each try - and saw no result. Then suddenly the text will jump to letter spacing so pronounced that the wind blows between the letters. (Well, at least, more than I want.) I think I asked about that someplace, and I think the answer may have been that letter spacing was best avoided, because browsers handle it neither consistently nor well. This list is more precise than most. Should I just accept default letter spacing and move my thoughts elsewhere? Chuck M Personal Opinion: Play at being a web designer rather than being a type designer. Do not letterspace text for desktop. Sometimes when used with discretion and depending on the font letterspacing of a heading /may/ be appropriate. Best, Frederic W. Goudy -- http://chelseacreekstudio.com/ http://chelseacreekstudio.com/fa/ __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Recreating the Facebook layout
On Jun 4, 2011, at 9:42 AM, David Laakso wrote: Personal Opinion: Play at being a web designer rather than being a type designer. Do not letterspace text for desktop. Sometimes when used with discretion and depending on the font letterspacing of a heading /may/ be appropriate. This child at play interprets that as an acknowledgement that CSS (and the browser makers) have failed in this area. Obviously, making the text readable and attractive should be basic to any web design. Size, font (within a terribly narrow range), and line-spacing are all nicely controllable. If letter-spacing is too tight (if I'm not the only human animal who thinks so), then that's a fail. I can accept friends, clients and associates who have flaws. Usually accept it in myself. I can accept web type with built-in flaws, as long as I'm allowed to grumble. I only hope that you CSS guys do a better job next time. It's not a matter of design, it's a matter of form to fit function. Surprised I wasn't fed the famous quote to the effect that he who would letter space lower case letters would steal sheep. To which I would have replied that I wasn't trying to space out letters; I was trying to restore optimal letter spacing. Obviously, the web has to be perfect. It's far too important to allow it to be like everything else in the world... Chuck M not on deadline this weekend __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
