Re: [css-d] Vertical Space Grudge Match: br vs css
Del Wegener wrote: Jukka K. Korpela wrote: On Mon, 21 May 2007, david wrote: that each line is easily handled as a separate paragraph, with CSS controlling line spacing and left/right margins. Just to add my two cents worth. When writing mathematics one frequently must display a formula which in fact is in the middle of a sentence. It certainly would not be appropriate to think of that displayed formula as a separate paragraph. Yes, that would be a good place for a br. -- David [EMAIL PROTECTED] authenticity, honesty, community __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Vertical Space Grudge Match: br vs css
Jukka K. Korpela wrote: On Mon, 21 May 2007, david wrote: that each line is easily handled as a separate paragraph, with CSS controlling line spacing and left/right margins. Just to add my two cents worth. When writing mathematics one frequently must display a formula which in fact is in the middle of a sentence. It certainly would not be appropriate to think of that displayed formula as a separate paragraph. Del __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Vertical Space Grudge Match: br vs css
Richard Grevers wrote: On 5/21/07, Bob Easton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Francesco Rizzi wrote: So, my question for the list is: why should we use css rules in this scenario instead of br tags ? Let's call it separating content (HTML) from presentation (CSS). Use technologies for their intended, and standards compliant, purposes. Use 1) Use HTML for well structured, semantic, markup. br and br / have no semantic value. Those are presentational markup that should never have been in HTML. I would be interested in seeing your pure css solution for inserting a carriage return in the middle of a paragraph (or similar block element which is semantically a single unit, but nevertheless needs a newline) without adding other extraneous markup? Why would you need to start a new line in the middle of a paragraph? I think that if you think about it, you'll find you're doing it to put a different item inside it, like a list? I'm not saying that br isn't abused, but I think that there is a place for it. this might be one of those grey areas where the border between content and presentation becomes blurred. The br tag is very old HTML. I think it existed for those people who were well used to traditions in printed material and didn't want a blank line between their paragraphs! Before CSS arrived, you couldn't do anything about the extra space between paragraphs, IIRC. -- David [EMAIL PROTECTED] authenticity, honesty, community __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Vertical Space Grudge Match: br vs css
Different solution: hrpContent/p and style the p element accordingly to achieve the spacing with different margins/paddings for top and bottom. You save code and the whole thing becomes more clear to read aswell. Inside the p element feel free to use br. br is a line break, nothing else. Its not something you would use for spacing in HTML. Agreed, that in Word processors, one will often use line breaks for spacing, BUT this works just fine, since those documents are interpreted mostly by just one program, or if not, than different spacing will not matter. With many user agents to consider, a different interpretation of br can break your layout if you are unlucky. I think the only place where one should use br at all, is inside h1-h6 and p, or in other words, where a linebreak is needed to set a semantic meaning! __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Vertical Space Grudge Match: br vs css
On Mon, 21 May 2007, david wrote: Why would you need to start a new line in the middle of a paragraph? I think that if you think about it, you'll find you're doing it to put a different item inside it, like a list? A fairly common case is a longish expression, such as an inline quotation or a piece program code, which appears as part of the paragraph text. You might wish to present it on a line of its own, possibly with indentation. Using br is the practical way. If you want indentation, you can wrap the content between the br tags inside a span and assign e.g. left padding to it. Using just span and CSS isn't practical, since you would need to use :before and :after pseudo-elements and generated content, which aren't supported at all e.g. in IE. The br tag is very old HTML. I think it existed for those people who were well used to traditions in printed material and didn't want a blank line between their paragraphs! Before CSS arrived, you couldn't do anything about the extra space between paragraphs, IIRC. I don't think that was the reason for including br into HTML, but it surely became common usage, which still prevails. And surely CSS offers much more natural and flexible methods for making paragraphs appear in literary style. -- Jukka Yucca Korpela, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/ __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Vertical Space Grudge Match: br vs css
david wrote: Richard Grevers wrote: On 5/21/07, Bob Easton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Francesco Rizzi wrote: So, my question for the list is: why should we use css rules in this scenario instead of br tags ? Let's call it separating content (HTML) from presentation (CSS). Use technologies for their intended, and standards compliant, purposes. Use 1) Use HTML for well structured, semantic, markup. br and br / have no semantic value. Those are presentational markup that should never have been in HTML. I would be interested in seeing your pure css solution for inserting a carriage return in the middle of a paragraph (or similar block element which is semantically a single unit, but nevertheless needs a newline) without adding other extraneous markup? Why would you need to start a new line in the middle of a paragraph? I think that if you think about it, you'll find you're doing it to put a different item inside it, like a list? Update: after posting that, I saw someone else mention song lyrics or poetry. Being a writer of both, all I can say is - that each line is easily handled as a separate paragraph, with CSS controlling line spacing and left/right margins. -- David [EMAIL PROTECTED] authenticity, honesty, community __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Vertical Space Grudge Match: br vs css
Jukka K. Korpela wrote: On Mon, 21 May 2007, david wrote: Why would you need to start a new line in the middle of a paragraph? I think that if you think about it, you'll find you're doing it to put a different item inside it, like a list? A fairly common case is a longish expression, such as an inline quotation or a piece program code, which appears as part of the paragraph text. You might wish to present it on a line of its own, possibly with indentation. Using br is the practical way. If you want indentation, you can wrap the content between the br tags inside a span and assign e.g. left padding to it. Using just span and CSS isn't practical, since you would need to use :before and :after pseudo-elements and generated content, which aren't supported at all e.g. in IE. Why would you need to do all that? You just put your inline quotation or program code in its own paragraph and adjust your margins that way. Why would you need to use :before or :after pseudo-elements at all? The br tag is very old HTML. I think it existed for those people who were well used to traditions in printed material and didn't want a blank line between their paragraphs! Before CSS arrived, you couldn't do anything about the extra space between paragraphs, IIRC. I don't think that was the reason for including br into HTML, but it surely became common usage, which still prevails. And surely CSS offers much more natural and flexible methods for making paragraphs appear in literary style. It does. But HTML predates CSS by a very long time ... -- David [EMAIL PROTECTED] authenticity, honesty, community __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Vertical Space Grudge Match: br vs css
On May 22, 2007, at 3:32 PM, david wrote: I would be interested in seeing your pure css solution for inserting a carriage return in the middle of a paragraph (or similar block element which is semantically a single unit, but nevertheless needs a newline) without adding other extraneous markup? Why would you need to start a new line in the middle of a paragraph? I think that if you think about it, you'll find you're doing it to put a different item inside it, like a list? It is quite common in non-roman languages (CJK comes to mind). (to remain on topic) The alternative markup is wrapping each individual line in p and start applying classes to each p for different margins till you go mad. And semantically, each unit remains one paragraph Philippe --- Philippe Wittenbergh http://emps.l-c-n.com __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Vertical Space Grudge Match: br vs css
Philippe Wittenbergh wrote: On May 22, 2007, at 3:32 PM, david wrote: I would be interested in seeing your pure css solution for inserting a carriage return in the middle of a paragraph (or similar block element which is semantically a single unit, but nevertheless needs a newline) without adding other extraneous markup? Why would you need to start a new line in the middle of a paragraph? I think that if you think about it, you'll find you're doing it to put a different item inside it, like a list? It is quite common in non-roman languages (CJK comes to mind). (to remain on topic) OK, I'll have to keep that in mind, since my non-English-language experience consists of only Roman languages (German, French, Spanish). -- David [EMAIL PROTECTED] authenticity, honesty, community __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Vertical Space Grudge Match: br vs css
On Mon, 21 May 2007, david wrote: Why would you need to do all that? You just put your inline quotation or program code in its own paragraph and adjust your margins that way. Why would you need to use :before or :after pseudo-elements at all? If I have, say, a text paragraph that mentions a program command inside the text, just as it could mention a name, should I switch to completely different markup when the command is so long that it should appear on a line of its own? I don't think so. -- Jukka Yucca Korpela, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/ __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Vertical Space Grudge Match: br vs css
On Mon, 21 May 2007, david wrote: Update: after posting that, I saw someone else mention song lyrics or poetry. Being a writer of both, all I can say is - that each line is easily handled as a separate paragraph, with CSS controlling line spacing and left/right margins. I don't think it's adequate to make each line a paragraph. When CSS is off, it will look bad. It will _sound_ bad, since speech browsers typically pause between paragraphs. But using div for each line works well, and lets you add left margin easily if desired. And it requires no CSS if simple rendering is OK. There's also the option of using pre, which is convenient if you now have poems in plain text format, possibly with spaces at the start of lines to be preserved. The drawback is that the font is monospace by default, but this can easily be fixed in CSS. (The opposite approach, using p.../p with white-space: pre might be theoretically better, but it doesn't work on some old browsers and causes a mess when CSS is off.) -- Jukka Yucca Korpela, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/ __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Vertical Space Grudge Match: br vs css
david wrote: Update: after posting that, I saw someone else mention song lyrics or poetry. Being a writer of both, all I can say is - that each line is easily handled as a separate paragraph, with CSS controlling line spacing and left/right margins. But each line is *not* a paragraph. Each line is a line of a stanza (in my mind, marked up pretty appropriately with the p tag). Or, in other words, and the end of each line is a line-break. I think there are only two really appropriate ways to mark-up poetry. Using pre tags, or using paragraphs to mark-up the stanza's and the br tag to show line-breaks. Possibly using an OL to mark it up as an ordered list, but that's only an option if you need to have the line numbers written, and even then I think it's pretty messy. -- Australian Web Designer - http://www.blakehaswell.com/ __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Vertical Space Grudge Match: br vs css
On Tue, 22 May 2007, Blake Haswell wrote:
I think there are only two really appropriate ways to mark-up poetry.
Using pre tags, or using paragraphs to mark-up the stanza's and the
br tag to show line-breaks. Possibly using an OL to mark it up as an
ordered list, but that's only an option if you need to have the line
numbers written, and even then I think it's pretty messy.
Using OL or UL is quite acceptable as far as styled presentation is
considered, since you can set list-style-type: none and margin: 0 and
padding: 0. You can also set
li { margin-left: 1em;
text-indent: -1em; }
so that if a line is longer than fits into the canvas, it is wrapped but
so that the second line is indented, letting the user infer the
intended division into lines. (Similar styling can be used in the DIV
approach that I mentioned earlier.)
What's problematic in using OL or UL is the unstyled presentation.
--
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Re: [css-d] Vertical Space Grudge Match: br vs css
On Tue, 22 May 2007, Blake Haswell wrote:
I think there are only two really appropriate ways to mark-up poetry.
Using pre tags, or using paragraphs to mark-up the stanza's and the
br tag to show line-breaks. Possibly using an OL to mark it up as an
ordered list, but that's only an option if you need to have the line
numbers written, and even then I think it's pretty messy.
Using OL or UL is quite acceptable as far as styled presentation is
considered, since you can set list-style-type: none and margin: 0 and
padding: 0. You can also set
li { margin-left: 1em;
text-indent: -1em; }
so that if a line is longer than fits into the canvas, it is wrapped but
so that the second line is indented, letting the user infer the
intended division into lines. (Similar styling can be used in the DIV
approach that I mentioned earlier.)
What's problematic in using OL or UL is the unstyled presentation.
--
Jukka Yucca Korpela, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
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Of course, in XHTML 2.0, they will be doing away with the br / tag.
Don't count this as a victory. They're replacing it with the lineThe
quick brown .../line syntax. So, clearly, the W3C believes that
paragraphs should be broken down somewhat.
Just something to consider.
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Re: [css-d] Vertical Space Grudge Match: br vs css
On 5/22/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 22 May 2007, Blake Haswell wrote: Of course, in XHTML 2.0, they will be doing away with the br / tag. Don't count this as a victory. They're replacing it with the lineThe quick brown .../line syntax. So, clearly, the W3C believes that paragraphs should be broken down somewhat. Just something to consider. This is interesting stuff, although we left the original topic somewhere behind us by now. I was styling pre blocks last night, and really hit the line length problem. Whitespace rules didn't seem to help: ~ white-space: auto; this makes the user agent ignore any whitespace you actually put in the preformatted block; ~ white-space: nowrap: this is the standard behavior in pre blocks, and a long line will extend to the right as much as it wants/needs (depending on your browser, the surrounding pre block will be extended accordingly or not, making the line bleed out); ~ white-space: pre; this tells the user agent that you preformatted the content with the spaces where you want. After a while, I realized that this is ok: if you are in a pre block, you are telling the user agent you preformatted the content, so the user agent really shouldn't mess with it. Of course, it'd be nice if there was a way to constrain the content in a given width, specifying maybe an indent space for lines that are too long... So, looking at future versions of the specs, pre is probably ok (the added rules I mentioned in the previous paragraph would be nice additions though). Definitely, right now, it feels like pre and p are potential overlaps. In other words, if we had a bit more control over pre presentation, then would we need a p tag at all ? And as long as we have p, I guess we need a br / or line / to break subsections of paragraphs. Granted, if we were willing to throw p away, we could use a new copy tag in its place. - and then we could define what copy means from scratch (I leave it up to you to determine whether a copy would be a single-chunk of copy or a grouping of 1 or more chunks, in which case you need a br / equivalent). F. __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Vertical Space Grudge Match: br vs css
Jukka K. Korpela wrote: On Mon, 21 May 2007, david wrote: Why would you need to do all that? You just put your inline quotation or program code in its own paragraph and adjust your margins that way. Why would you need to use :before or :after pseudo-elements at all? If I have, say, a text paragraph that mentions a program command inside the text, just as it could mention a name, should I switch to completely different markup when the command is so long that it should appear on a line of its own? I don't think so. If you're only mentioning a single command, sure, that's that span could be for. But a single command wouldn't be an entire line ... but if you were to mention a multi-line snippet of code, that WOULD be a paragraph. At least to me. Sometimes I think the entire span tag doesn't really fit with CSS. It's conceptually just a div that's set to display:inline ... you could do the same things by simply styling the em or strong tags appropriately and (to me) much more semantically. Or using the code tag ... -- David [EMAIL PROTECTED] authenticity, honesty, community __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Vertical Space Grudge Match: br vs css
Jukka K. Korpela wrote: On Mon, 21 May 2007, david wrote: Update: after posting that, I saw someone else mention song lyrics or poetry. Being a writer of both, all I can say is - that each line is easily handled as a separate paragraph, with CSS controlling line spacing and left/right margins. I don't think it's adequate to make each line a paragraph. When CSS is off, it will look bad. It will _sound_ bad, since speech browsers typically pause between paragraphs. But using div for each line works well, and lets you add left margin easily if desired. And it requires no CSS if simple rendering is OK. Good point. There's also the option of using pre, which is convenient if you now have poems in plain text format, possibly with spaces at the start of lines to be preserved. The drawback is that the font is monospace by default, but this can easily be fixed in CSS. (The opposite approach, using p.../p with white-space: pre might be theoretically better, but it doesn't work on some old browsers and causes a mess when CSS is off.) Styling pre would cause problems with many of my poems, many of which have lines that start beneath specific individual characters in the line above. If I put in the proper amount of spaces to line things up in a pre restyled to use a non-monospace font, someone viewing it with CSS off will have the words landing at the wrong place. I do wish CSS had the idea of a tab character! ;-) Anyway, are we too far off topic to get back on topic? Does anyone know of any poetry sites where we could see how they're doing it? -- David [EMAIL PROTECTED] authenticity, honesty, community __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Vertical Space Grudge Match: br vs css
Blake Haswell wrote: david wrote: Update: after posting that, I saw someone else mention song lyrics or poetry. Being a writer of both, all I can say is - that each line is easily handled as a separate paragraph, with CSS controlling line spacing and left/right margins. But each line is *not* a paragraph. Each line is a line of a stanza (in my mind, marked up pretty appropriately with the p tag). Or, in other words, and the end of each line is a line-break. Someone needs to propose a new XML tag - stanza! - that is like a paragraph but respects line breaks in the HTML source itself. I think there are only two really appropriate ways to mark-up poetry. Using pre tags, or using paragraphs to mark-up the stanza's and the br tag to show line-breaks. I can agree with that. -- David [EMAIL PROTECTED] authenticity, honesty, community __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Vertical Space Grudge Match: br vs css
Francesco Rizzi wrote: So, my question for the list is: why should we use css rules in this scenario instead of br tags ? Let's call it separating content (HTML) from presentation (CSS). Use technologies for their intended, and standards compliant, purposes. Use 1) Use HTML for well structured, semantic, markup. br and br / have no semantic value. Those are presentational markup that should never have been in HTML. 2) Use CSS for all presentation markup, not only appearance of typography, but also layout, such as that space between elements. 3) Use JavaScript for all behaviors. Doing things this way has become the accepted best practice among leading designers and developers. The benefits are many, but the most important is that this approach reduces future maintenance. For your example, when the client wants to change the space between the elements, add dingbats, or whatever, it can be done by changing one CSS file, not editing all of the brs in all the HTML files. -- Bob Easton Accessibility Matters: http://access-matters.com __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Vertical Space Grudge Match: br vs css
On 5/21/07, Bob Easton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Francesco Rizzi wrote: So, my question for the list is: why should we use css rules in this scenario instead of br tags ? Let's call it separating content (HTML) from presentation (CSS). Use technologies for their intended, and standards compliant, purposes. Use 1) Use HTML for well structured, semantic, markup. br and br / have no semantic value. Those are presentational markup that should never have been in HTML. I would be interested in seeing your pure css solution for inserting a carriage return in the middle of a paragraph (or similar block element which is semantically a single unit, but nevertheless needs a newline) without adding other extraneous markup? I'm not saying that br isn't abused, but I think that there is a place for it. this might be one of those grey areas where the border between content and presentation becomes blurred. -- Richard Grevers, New Plymouth, New Zealand Hat 1: Development Engineer, Webfarm Ltd. Hat 2: Dramatic Design www.dramatic.co.nz Lost yet? http://www.lost.eu/3d33f __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Vertical Space Grudge Match: br vs css
br and br / have no semantic value. Those are presentational markup that should never have been in HTML. I disagree. In terms of song lyrics, poetry, and sometimes even mailing addresses I generally think that br is a perfectly acceptable solution that *does* have semantic value and fulfils the requirements as well as or better than pre or other available solutions. -- Australian Web Designer - http://www.blakehaswell.com/ __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] Vertical Space Grudge Match: br vs css
Consider an hypothetical situation: the project requirements call for some vertical space between a certain element on your web page (picture an horizontal line, like an hr), and a second element (picture a textbox). There's many ways you can achieve this effect. My instinct would be to give the second element some css style.. a margin-top, or a padding-top, depending on the situation. An hypothetical colleague, however, suggests simply placing a br tag between the two. Actually, since the hypothetical requirements call for some added vertical space right after that textbox, the colleague suggests: hrbr[textbox]brbr Yes, yes, br instead of br /. It's hypothetical, don't worry about that detail. So, my question for the list is: why should we use css rules in this scenario instead of br tags ? Thank you in advance, F. __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Vertical Space Grudge Match: br vs css
On 5/19/07, Francesco Rizzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Consider an hypothetical situation: the project requirements call for some vertical space between a certain element on your web page (picture an horizontal line, like an hr), and a second element (picture a textbox). There's many ways you can achieve this effect. My instinct would be to give the second element some css style.. a margin-top, or a padding-top, depending on the situation. An hypothetical colleague, however, suggests simply placing a br tag between the two. Actually, since the hypothetical requirements call for some added vertical space right after that textbox, the colleague suggests: hrbr[textbox]brbr Yes, yes, br instead of br /. It's hypothetical, don't worry about that detail. So, my question for the list is: why should we use css rules in this scenario instead of br tags ? Thank you in advance, F. __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ You're hardcoding space that will be interpreted very differently by different browsers where you could take advantage of css. I think there are some very real arguments for using linebreaks in copy that needs to break at just the right spot (so says the copywriter), but I can't imagine a situation in which you wouldn't be better served by styles than a br / for layout. In this instance, your hypothetical friend may find that br gives you some vertical space, but there's no specifying (in your example) how much space. With styles, you could determine that down to the pixel and make it consistent across browsers. __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Vertical Space Grudge Match: br vs css
If you don't want to use CSS,why not add several br / to get the space you require.? From: Francesco Rizzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org Subject: [css-d] Vertical Space Grudge Match: br vs css Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 22:05:33 -0400 Consider an hypothetical situation: the project requirements call for some vertical space between a certain element on your web page (picture an horizontal line, like an hr), and a second element (picture a textbox). There's many ways you can achieve this effect. My instinct would be to give the second element some css style.. a margin-top, or a padding-top, depending on the situation. An hypothetical colleague, however, suggests simply placing a br tag between the two. Actually, since the hypothetical requirements call for some added vertical space right after that textbox, the colleague suggests: hrbr[textbox]brbr Yes, yes, br instead of br /. It's hypothetical, don't worry about that detail. So, my question for the list is: why should we use css rules in this scenario instead of br tags ? Thank you in advance, F. __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ _ Catch suspicious messages before you open themwith Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-usocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_protection_0507 __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
