Re: [css-d] css problems with text size
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is it possible to make css behave like tables?? Can pigs fly? http://www.nssdesign.scot.nhs.uk/about_us/whoweare.php If you use the browser to enlarge the text size to largest things get a bit messy. Is there a way to prevent the size of the text or at least detect it?? I want things to exand to fit the way HTML tables do. You have a layout problem. Solve that and you will be able to scale the fonts in any os/browser without breaking the layout. I think I sent some links to you a couple of days ago. They addressed solutions you might use to resolve the layout/font-scaling problems. I have been working using the great book 'the zen of css design' but i have a problem. When I go to the pages (http://csszengarden.com/ )they all use fixed text sizes but are AAA and 508 compliant?? If I am providing an alternative text only/low graphics version is this enough to comply with the standards? How can they use fixed text and still comply? They are not dealing with real world situations or problems. Use the ZenGarden for what it is-- aesthetic inspiration. It is eye candy. Not a means of how one might go about providing usable and accessible content. [...] R. Best, ~dL -- David Laakso http://www.dlaakso.com __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] css problems with text size
Is it possible to make css behave like tables?? What, make it hard to maintain, heavy weight and unpredictable in modern browsers? http://www.nssdesign.scot.nhs.uk/about_us/whoweare.php If you use the browser to enlarge the text size to largest things get a bit messy. Is there a way to prevent the size of the text or at least detect it?? I want things to exand to fit the way HTML tables do. Then you need to develop your CSS the right way: - Use float instead of absolute positioning - Don't restrain heights but allow elements to expand with their content. I suppose I could add overflow:auto to the boxes but his is a bit of a rubbish solution. Also when I switch the css off I get a messy text only version. Then you didn't design your HTML properly either. Good web design starts with a valid HTML document that makes sense and is readable without any images, CSS or scripting. I have been working using the great book 'the zen of css design' but i have a problem. When I go to the pages (http://csszengarden.com/ )they all use fixed text sizes but are AAA and 508 compliant?? If I am providing an alternative text only/low graphics version is this enough to comply with the standards? How can they use fixed text and still comply? As David said, the AAA and 508 links on CSS Zengarden are misleading and shouldn't be there. The XHTML might be both but most of the designs are not accessible pages. They are not meant to be, they are design inspiration. That is why I started the CSS Toolshed (http://www.csstoolshed.com) and I am still waiting for submissions... One last thing.Does anyone know the best way to make tidy css-less versions of complex pages Err? You mean table-less??? Best Tip ever: Get Dan Cederholm's Bullet Proof CSS, and read that. Also, stop thinking of CSS as the new tables, CSS design also means embracing flexibility: http://www.wait-till-i.com/index.php?p=172 I want my page to look like this. http://www.nssdesign.scot.nhs.uk/text_only/whoweare_txt.php but ALL the options of the dropdown menu are shown - a massive list (turn of the css on http://www.nssdesign.scot.nhs.uk/about_us/whoweare.php ) and you will see what I mean. Can I detect a when the CSS is turned off and redirect to my own text only version? Any hints, tips or ideas will be much appreciated. Don't rely on CSS to hide and show navigation but keep it on the backend. As you have PHP, give easynav a go: http://www.onlinetools.org/tools/easynav/ You could check for CSS via JavaScript (by assigning a height to an element in CSS and reading out the height in JavaScript) and redirect to the other page automatically, but redirection on the client without user interaction this is a real accessibility/usability no-no. -- Chris Heilmann Blog: http://www.wait-till-i.com Writing: http://icant.co.uk/ Binaries: http://www.onlinetools.org/ __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] css problems with text size
Is it possible to make css behave like tables?? I'll say it's possible to do whatever you want with CSS, if you are creative enough. If you use the browser to enlarge the text size to largest things get a bit messy. Is there a way to prevent the size of the text or at least detect it?? I want things to exand to fit the way HTML tables do. That naturally happens, you must be doing something wrong. I have been working using the great book 'the zen of css design' but i have a problem. When I go to the pages (http://csszengarden.com/ )they all use fixed text sizes but are AAA and 508 compliant?? If I am providing an alternative text only/low graphics version is this enough to comply with the standards? How can they use fixed text and still comply? That's not entirely honest. The first zen garden design by Dave Shea might have been AAA/508, but there have been a lot that broke the rules. Don't let it fool you. It's very hard to acheive AAA anyway. One last thing.Does anyone know the best way to make tidy css-less versions of complex pages I want my page to look like this. http://www.nssdesign.scot.nhs.uk/text_only/whoweare_txt.php but ALL the options of the dropdown menu are shown - a massive list (turn of the css on http://www.nssdesign.scot.nhs.uk/about_us/whoweare.php ) and you will see what I mean. Can I detect a when the CSS is turned off and redirect to my own text only version? Why don't you use a cookie + php to handle CSS changes, like a link to turn styling off, or a link to turn off images and make text bigger, etc. It's better than making a seperate text only version. -- -- C Montoya christianmontoya.com ... rdpdesign.com ... cssliquid.com __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] css problems with text size
2005/11/22, Christian Heilmann [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Is it possible to make css behave like tables?? What, make it hard to maintain, heavy weight and unpredictable in modern browsers? What is so hard to maintain, heavy weight, or unpredictable in display: table-row and display: table-cell ? The most important part is also predictable: Internet Explorer does not support it. Regards, Rimantas -- http://rimantas.com/ __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] css problems with text size
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is it possible to make css behave like tables?? http://www.nssdesign.scot.nhs.uk/about_us/whoweare.php Yes. We have 'display: table' that most browsers understand in part, and IE/win can be tricked into simulating - in part. There's also the default-behavior, where all browsers expand elements - unless we tell them otherwise. Add in 'em' based dimensions that'll make any layout expand in relation to font-size (when done correctly), and you have more options than tables ever had. When I go to the pages (http://csszengarden.com/ )they all use fixed text sizes but are AAA and 508 compliant?? If I am providing an alternative text only/low graphics version is this enough to comply with the standards? How can they use fixed text and still comply? How many of those zengarden designs that comply to anything but good looks, is unknown to me - and not important. They are show-cases. There's no such thing as fixed text anyway, so they are just relying on _one_ broken browser - which isn't more broken than that it can 'override' that fixed text. The result: often awful. One last thing.Does anyone know the best way to make tidy css-less versions of complex pages I want my page to look like this. http://www.nssdesign.scot.nhs.uk/text_only/whoweare_txt.php but ALL the options of the dropdown menu are shown - a massive list Depends on what you want them css-less for. If it's for print, then you just have to keep screen-styles for 'media screen', and create a 'media print' stylesheet with a few 'display: none' for elements that are of no use when printing. I use @media rules in my stylesheets for separation... http://www.gunlaug.no/contents//wd_1_04.html ...while others use 'media=print' vs. 'media=screen' on stylesheet-links. If you want to unstyle or downstyle for screen and other media, then you can use some kind of stylesheet-switcher. I use the javascript version described here... http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/jslibs/htmlhigh/swapstyle.html ...and am very pleased with it. regards Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] css problems with text size
Is it possible to make css behave like tables?? What, make it hard to maintain, heavy weight and unpredictable in modern browsers? What is so hard to maintain, heavy weight, or unpredictable in display: table-row and display: table-cell ? The most important part is also predictable: Internet Explorer does not support it. I never used either of them, mainly because of the non-support of MSIE. However, the two selectors you mentioned do not expect a table, and the all the points I mentioned are connected to layouts done with tables in the markup. The beauty of CSS is that it allows you to create layouts that become multi column when there is enough space and stay in one when there is not enough space. This is the edge CSS designers have. -- Chris Heilmann Blog: http://www.wait-till-i.com Writing: http://icant.co.uk/ Binaries: http://www.onlinetools.org/ __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
