Re: [css-d] Subject: Font Size Small in FireFox ?
On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 10:52 AM, Crest Christopher
crestchristop...@gmail.com wrote:
David Hucklesby - I added {font-family:serif;} considering serif is on all
window computers. The font sizes remain different in firefox compared to
IE. Arghh !
__
I can't help still leaning towards browser settings. Have you double
checked that zoom/text scaling is at 100% in all browsers?
--
Tom Livingston | Senior Front-End Developer | Media Logic |
ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com
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Re: [css-d] Subject: Font Size Small in FireFox ?
Crest Christopher wrote:
David Hucklesby - I added {font-family:serif;} considering serif is on
all window computers. The font sizes remain different in firefox
compared to IE.
And your browser font selection for serif in Firefox and IE; is that,
too, the same ? And even if it is, there is no guarantee that your real
visitors will have the same font customisation.
More simply : Adobe PDF is intended for documents that must be rendered
identically regardless of platform; HTML and CSS are intended to
/suggest/ how a document should appear, without any real control,
particularly when it comes to control over fonts, line-breaking, etc.
The impossible is the impossible : never seek to question it.
Philip Taylor
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Re: [css-d] Subject: Font Size Small in FireFox ?
Do you have a link to the page in question? Maybe I missed it in the thread?
On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 11:14 AM, Crest Christopher
crestchristop...@gmail.com wrote:
Zoom and Text scaling is at 100% in all browsers. Arghh the text won't
look right in FireFox, I don't understand, I was expecting this in IE, not
firefox.
Tom Livingston wrote:
On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 10:52 AM, Crest Christopher
crestchristop...@gmail.com wrote:
David Hucklesby - I added {font-family:serif;} considering serif is on
all
window computers. The font sizes remain different in firefox compared to
IE. Arghh !
__
I can't help still leaning towards browser settings. Have you double
checked that zoom/text scaling is at 100% in all browsers?
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
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Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
--
Chris Rockwell
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Re: [css-d] Subject: Font Size Small in FireFox ?
Here is the updated link
http://www.thecreativesheep.ca/webdesignprojects/largeprojects/cs_site.html.
Tom Livingston wrote:
On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 11:14 AM, Crest Christopher
crestchristop...@gmail.com wrote:
Zoom and Text scaling is at 100% in all browsers. Arghh the text won't look
right in FireFox, I don't understand, I was expecting this in IE, not
firefox.
Tom Livingston wrote:
On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 10:52 AM, Crest Christopher
crestchristop...@gmail.com wrote:
David Hucklesby - I added {font-family:serif;} considering serif is on all
window computers. The font sizes remain different in firefox compared to
IE. Arghh !
__
I can't help still leaning towards browser settings. Have you double
checked that zoom/text scaling is at 100% in all browsers?
Do you have an updated link to look at?
__
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http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
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Re: [css-d] Subject: Font Size Small in FireFox ?
On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 11:16 AM, Crest Christopher
crestchristop...@gmail.com wrote:
Here is the updated link.
Tom Livingston wrote:
On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 11:14 AM, Crest Christopher
crestchristop...@gmail.com wrote:
Zoom and Text scaling is at 100% in all browsers. Arghh the text won't look
right in FireFox, I don't understand, I was expecting this in IE, not
firefox.
Tom Livingston wrote:
On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 10:52 AM, Crest Christopher
crestchristop...@gmail.com wrote:
David Hucklesby - I added {font-family:serif;} considering serif is on all
window computers. The font sizes remain different in firefox compared to
IE. Arghh !
__
I can't help still leaning towards browser settings. Have you double
checked that zoom/text scaling is at 100% in all browsers?
Do you have an updated link to look at?
Chrome on top, FF Aurora behind:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2616576/Screen%20Shot%202014-03-19%20at%2011.23.10%20AM.png
--
Tom Livingston | Senior Front-End Developer | Media Logic |
ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com
__
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Re: [css-d] Subject: Font Size Small in FireFox ?
On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 11:14 AM, Crest Christopher
crestchristop...@gmail.com wrote:
Zoom and Text scaling is at 100% in all browsers. Arghh the text won't look
right in FireFox, I don't understand, I was expecting this in IE, not
firefox.
Tom Livingston wrote:
On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 10:52 AM, Crest Christopher
crestchristop...@gmail.com wrote:
David Hucklesby - I added {font-family:serif;} considering serif is on all
window computers. The font sizes remain different in firefox compared to
IE. Arghh !
__
I can't help still leaning towards browser settings. Have you double
checked that zoom/text scaling is at 100% in all browsers?
Do you have an updated link to look at?
--
Tom Livingston | Senior Front-End Developer | Media Logic |
ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
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Re: [css-d] Subject: Font Size Small in FireFox ?
On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 11:27 AM, Tom Livingston tom...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 11:26 AM, Crest Christopher crestchristop...@gmail.com wrote: It looks identical, did you change any rule in the style sheet or nothing at all ? I changed nothing. -- Did you edit browser default style sheets at all? Browser extensions, like Greasemonkey, that manipulate styles for sites? -- Tom Livingston | Senior Front-End Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Subject: Font Size Small in FireFox ?
Good news, I think I solved it. FireFox 27.x Options Content Fonts Colors: previously it was set on some other font, I don't know how that happened, but firefox was crashing alot a month ago maybe I was unaware things were changing around in the options, that was probably fixed with a Firefox update. Anyhow I changed the default font to, Times New Roman and the font sizes look identical to that of Chrome and IE. Tom Livingston wrote: On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 11:26 AM, Crest Christopher crestchristop...@gmail.com wrote: It looks identical, did you change any rule in the style sheet or nothing at all ? I changed nothing. __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Subject: Font Size Small in FireFox ?
I have a question, how come when I hover over the word 'gallery' the word tutorial changes color as set for the hover rule. How do I confined the anchor size to the word, not so that it spills onto the other text ? Tom Livingston wrote: On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 11:27 AM, Tom Livingstontom...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 11:26 AM, Crest Christopher crestchristop...@gmail.com wrote: It looks identical, did you change any rule in the style sheet or nothing at all ? I changed nothing. -- Did you edit browser default style sheets at all? Browser extensions, like Greasemonkey, that manipulate styles for sites? __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Subject: Font Size Small in FireFox ?
It looks identical, did you change any rule in the style sheet or
nothing at all ?
Tom Livingston wrote:
On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 11:16 AM, Crest Christopher
crestchristop...@gmail.com wrote:
Here is the updated link.
Tom Livingston wrote:
On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 11:14 AM, Crest Christopher
crestchristop...@gmail.com wrote:
Zoom and Text scaling is at 100% in all browsers. Arghh the text won't look
right in FireFox, I don't understand, I was expecting this in IE, not
firefox.
Tom Livingston wrote:
On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 10:52 AM, Crest Christopher
crestchristop...@gmail.com wrote:
David Hucklesby - I added {font-family:serif;} considering serif is on all
window computers. The font sizes remain different in firefox compared to
IE. Arghh !
__
I can't help still leaning towards browser settings. Have you double
checked that zoom/text scaling is at 100% in all browsers?
Do you have an updated link to look at?
Chrome on top, FF Aurora behind:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2616576/Screen%20Shot%202014-03-19%20at%2011.23.10%20AM.png
__
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Re: [css-d] Subject: Font Size Small in FireFox ?
On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 11:26 AM, Crest Christopher crestchristop...@gmail.com wrote: It looks identical, did you change any rule in the style sheet or nothing at all ? I changed nothing. -- Tom Livingston | Senior Front-End Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Subject: Font Size Small in FireFox ?
Zoom and Text scaling is at 100% in all browsers. Arghh the text won't
look right in FireFox, I don't understand, I was expecting this in IE,
not firefox.
Tom Livingston wrote:
On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 10:52 AM, Crest Christopher
crestchristop...@gmail.com wrote:
David Hucklesby - I added {font-family:serif;} considering serif is on all
window computers. The font sizes remain different in firefox compared to
IE. Arghh !
__
I can't help still leaning towards browser settings. Have you double
checked that zoom/text scaling is at 100% in all browsers?
__
css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Subject: Font Size Small in FireFox ?
On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 11:41 AM, Crest Christopher crestchristop...@gmail.com wrote: Thank You for the help ! Tom Livingston wrote: On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Crest Christopher crestchristop...@gmail.com wrote: I have a question, how come when I hover over the word 'gallery' the word tutorial changes color as set for the hover rule. How do I confined the anchor size to the word, not so that it spills onto the other text ? They overlap. Hit areas are on top of eachother. Not sure you can avoid this as built. You might butt them up to each other (no overlap) and mess with fixed height containers, text size and overflow:hidden to get close. Maybe. Haven't tested. -- Tom Livingston | Senior Front-End Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Subject: Font Size Small in FireFox ?
Thank You for the help ! Tom Livingston wrote: On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Crest Christopher crestchristop...@gmail.com wrote: I have a question, how come when I hover over the word 'gallery' the word tutorial changes color as set for the hover rule. How do I confined the anchor size to the word, not so that it spills onto the other text ? They overlap. Hit areas are on top of eachother. Not sure you can avoid this as built. __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Subject: Font Size Small in FireFox ?
On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Crest Christopher crestchristop...@gmail.com wrote: I have a question, how come when I hover over the word 'gallery' the word tutorial changes color as set for the hover rule. How do I confined the anchor size to the word, not so that it spills onto the other text ? They overlap. Hit areas are on top of eachother. Not sure you can avoid this as built. -- Tom Livingston | Senior Front-End Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Subject: Font Size Small in FireFox ?
You need validate your HTML because I have noticed you have DIV tags as children of h3 tags. These errors do affect how the page is displayed in Standards Compliant Web Browsers. Same thing with CSS. It should also be validated. I haven't done it but you get the idea. -- From: Crest Christopher crestchristop...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 3:33 PM To: Tom Livingston tom...@gmail.com Cc: CSS-Discuss css-d@lists.css-discuss.org Subject: Re: [css-d] Subject: Font Size Small in FireFox ? I have a question, how come when I hover over the word 'gallery' the word tutorial changes color as set for the hover rule. How do I confined the anchor size to the word, not so that it spills onto the other text ? Tom Livingston wrote: On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 11:27 AM, Tom Livingstontom...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 11:26 AM, Crest Christopher crestchristop...@gmail.com wrote: It looks identical, did you change any rule in the style sheet or nothing at all ? I changed nothing. -- Did you edit browser default style sheets at all? Browser extensions, like Greasemonkey, that manipulate styles for sites? __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Subject: Font Size Small in FireFox ?
I will, I only forget to do these things when it's 11:30 PM at night :) When I should be just watching animals on YouTube or going to bed JAY TANNA wrote: You need validate your HTML because I have noticed you have DIV tags as children of h3 tags. These errors do affect how the page is displayed in Standards Compliant Web Browsers. Same thing with CSS. It should also be validated. I haven't done it but you get the idea. -- From: Crest Christopher crestchristop...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 3:33 PM To: Tom Livingston tom...@gmail.com Cc: CSS-Discuss css-d@lists.css-discuss.org Subject: Re: [css-d] Subject: Font Size Small in FireFox ? I have a question, how come when I hover over the word 'gallery' the word tutorial changes color as set for the hover rule. How do I confined the anchor size to the word, not so that it spills onto the other text ? Tom Livingston wrote: On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 11:27 AM, Tom Livingstontom...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 11:26 AM, Crest Christopher crestchristop...@gmail.com wrote: It looks identical, did you change any rule in the style sheet or nothing at all ? I changed nothing. -- Did you edit browser default style sheets at all? Browser extensions, like Greasemonkey, that manipulate styles for sites? __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Subject: Font Size Small in FireFox ?
I changed my font-size to pixels, yet the fonts still look smaller in FireFox then Chrome or IE (site http://www.thecreativesheep.ca/webdesignprojects/largeprojects/cs_site.html), probably something else wrong ? Why is the CSS Mailing List sending me a digest instead of individual messages as I originally set it up to ? __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Subject: Font Size Small in FireFox ?
On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 8:36 AM, Crest Christopher crestchristop...@gmail.com wrote: I changed my font-size to pixels, yet the fonts still look smaller in FireFox then Chrome or IE (site http://www.thecreativesheep.ca/webdesignprojects/largeprojects/cs_site.html), probably something else wrong ? Why is the CSS Mailing List sending me a digest instead of individual messages as I originally set it up to ? Although in Chrome I see a serif font - most likely a default setting for me - the sizes are the same between Latest FF Aurora and latest released Chrome on my Mac. Just a wild guess here, but might you have used FF's font scaling UI (View Zoom Scale Text Only) - scaled things down - and maybe left it down? -- Tom Livingston | Senior Front-End Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Subject: Font Size Small in FireFox ?
Hi, Tom. You are seeing no difference in Font Sizes between browsers, hrmm odd. I don't have Scale Text Only enabled within FireFox (27.0.1). Tom Livingston wrote: On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 8:36 AM, Crest Christopher crestchristop...@gmail.com wrote: I changed my font-size to pixels, yet the fonts still look smaller in FireFox then Chrome or IE (site http://www.thecreativesheep.ca/webdesignprojects/largeprojects/cs_site.html), probably something else wrong ? Why is the CSS Mailing List sending me a digest instead of individual messages as I originally set it up to ? Although in Chrome I see a serif font - most likely a default setting for me - the sizes are the same between Latest FF Aurora and latest released Chrome on my Mac. Just a wild guess here, but might you have used FF's font scaling UI (View Zoom Scale Text Only) - scaled things down - and maybe left it down? __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Subject: Font Size Small in FireFox ?
On 3/17/14, 7:21 AM, Crest Christopher wrote: Hi, Tom. You are seeing no difference in Font Sizes between browsers, hrmm odd. I don't have Scale Text Only enabled within FireFox (27.0.1). Tom Livingston wrote: On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 8:36 AM, Crest Christopher crestchristop...@gmail.com wrote: I changed my font-size to pixels, yet the fonts still look smaller in FireFox then Chrome or IE (site http://www.thecreativesheep.ca/webdesignprojects/largeprojects/cs_site.html), probably something else wrong ? [...] Just a wild guess here, but might you have used FF's font scaling UI (View Zoom Scale Text Only) - scaled things down - and maybe left it down? Another possibility - your Firefox browser is using a different font than your other browsers? As you have not defined a font-face in your CSS, browsers will use the one defined in the browser’s settings. There are noticeable differences in sizes between fonts. Suggestion: Try defining a font-face in your CSS. (One that exists on your computer, that is.) -- Cordially, David __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Subject: Font Size Small in FireFox ?
Felix, you answer is very helpful and very informative, but there are places where (to me) it seems to make no sense at all. May I ask you to expand on the following, please ? DPI is often used interchangeably with display resolution DPI is a single number (1-dimensional) whilst display resolution is an ordered pair (2-dimensional); how can they be used interchangeably ? DEs for desktop systems (and the software than runs on them, including web browsers) almost universally by default assume a display density of 96 DPI (or PPI), same as the CSS reference px unit. It has never been clear to me why CSS has a reference px unit. What is the point of CSS including a unit such as px, which should mean one pixel, and then giving it an entirely arbitrary meaning that does not (other than by pure chance) map to one pixel at all ? In Geckos, variations in assumed DPI have no impact on its 16px OEM default size, which physically speaking is 12pt whenever the DPI is in fact 96. Why ? Also, has this always been the case, or did it change between the version of Gecko used until Seamonkey 2.17.1 (the last version that I regard as usable, because of the aberrant behaviour regarding font scaling that occurred post that release) and subsequent versions ? To get bigger fonts in px from Geckos requires either settings personalization, zoom, or bigger CSS size declarations, all of which are effective in IE as well, but often obviated from necessity because IE's default automatically goes up as DE DPI goes up, e.g., default @120 DPI being 20px instead of the 16px that it is @96, or 24px when DPI is 144. Why does Gecko not emulate this eminently sensible behaviour ? The reason it's ostensibly a good thing is because there is positive non-zero rational relationship between a CSS size declaration in em, and to optimal as reflected by the browser default size, which does not exist for a px unit. I don't understand the above starting at and to optimal; is there possibly a typo somewhere in there that is confusing me ? as display density increases, the px unit decreases in physical size (to a point, after which it doubles, and then at another point, after which it in effect will have tripled, etc.), What causes it to ?suddenly? double, triple, etc ? Many thanks in advance for any light that you can shed on the above. Philip Taylor __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Subject: Font Size Small in FireFox ?
On 2014-03-16 07:25 (GMT) Philip Taylor composed: Felix, you answer is very helpful and very informative, but there are places where (to me) it seems to make no sense at all. May I ask you to expand on the following, please ? DPI is often used interchangeably with display resolution DPI is a single number (1-dimensional) whilst display resolution is an ordered pair (2-dimensional); how can they be used interchangeably ? I didn't mean they were literally interchangeable, only that people don't always understand the difference, or even know that there is a difference, and often use one where the other would be uniquely correct or more appropriate. DEs for desktop systems (and the software than runs on them, including web browsers) almost universally by default assume a display density of 96 DPI (or PPI), same as the CSS reference px unit. It has never been clear to me why CSS has a reference px unit. What is the point of CSS including a unit such as px, which should mean one pixel, and then giving it an entirely arbitrary meaning that does not (other than by pure chance) map to one pixel at all ? I don't recall the history. It seems to me mostly a rationalization for the provision of a px unit as a legal CSS length. As a device pixel is something that varies in physical size, I suppose having something that can be reduced to a predictable physical measurement would be a necessary part of a complete specification for things that define object sizes and sizing. The angular definition isn't entirely arbitrary, as it is derived from a common practice from a young internet as defined by Microsoft. FWIW, http://blogs.msdn.com/b/fontblog/archive/2005/11/08/490490.aspx provides logical explanation for 96. In Geckos, variations in assumed DPI have no impact on its 16px OEM default size, which physically speaking is 12pt whenever the DPI is in fact 96. Why ? Also, has this always been the case, or did it change between the version of Gecko used until Seamonkey 2.17.1 (the last version that I regard as usable, because of the aberrant behaviour regarding font scaling that occurred post that release) and subsequent versions? I'm assuming your why refers to the fact that Gecko's default is not affected by DPI. It has been thus for as long as I've been using Mozilla, more than 13 years, sometime before Netscape 6.2 (maybe before 6.0 too) and Mozilla 1.0 were released. Whether it ever was not the case I don't remember, but I think it's never been otherwise. As to why I don't remember either, but a search of bugzilla.mozilla.org's early years on the issue of attempting to change default font size to behave as it does in IE (and KHTML) would no doubt provide an answer. To get bigger fonts in px from Geckos requires either settings personalization, zoom, or bigger CSS size declarations, all of which are effective in IE as well, but often obviated from necessity because IE's default automatically goes up as DE DPI goes up, e.g., default @120 DPI being 20px instead of the 16px that it is @96, or 24px when DPI is 144. Why does Gecko not emulate this eminently sensible behaviour ? In part because its default is specified in pixels, not points. In another part, because it's FOSS, which means cross-platform compromises that dictate choices made in internal design. Safari behaves the same as Gecko. Little as I understand about Chrome, IIUC it behaves like Safari, since at the outset at least it ran on the exact same WebKit rendering engine, which was originally forked from KHTML. More recently WebKit was forked itself into Blink for use in Chrome with minimized control from Apple. The reason it's ostensibly a good thing is because there is positive non-zero rational relationship between a CSS size declaration in em, and to optimal as reflected by the browser default size, which does not exist for a px unit. I don't understand the above starting at and to optimal; is there possibly a typo somewhere in there that is confusing me ? I use optimal as a descriptive term for browser default. 1em at the root (html; 1rem) equals the browser default 1:1. The browser default presumptively is either optimal as shipped by its vendor, or optimal as personalized by its user when the OEM setting was sufficiently divorced from his own environment's optimal to cause the user to change it. as display density increases, the px unit decreases in physical size (to a point, after which it doubles, and then at another point, after which it in effect will have tripled, etc.), What causes it to ?suddenly? double, triple, etc ? I'm not up to speed on any advances that may exist within any DEs themselves. WRT browser engines, available hardware is not up to the task of dealing with non-integer device pixel to logical pixel ratios. So, 96 is used until physical DPI has reached a doubling from 96 to 192, where it remains until the tripling point at 3X96=288. Whether the 4X
Re: [css-d] Subject: Font Size Small in FireFox ?
Felix: I just wish to say that your knowledge of this topic (et al) is simply amazing. You are a wealth of information -- thank you very much for your participation. Cheers, tedd ___ tedd sperling t...@sperling.com __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Subject: Font Size Small in FireFox ?
On 2014-03-15 21:14 (GMT-0400) Crest Christopher composed: Felix, what do you mean by DE DPI ? The term DE DPI refers to logical pixel density, as opposed to physical (device) pixel density. DPI is dots per inch, which most think of as pixels per inch, a measure of display pixel density. DPI is often used interchangeably with display resolution, but wrong so used. Display resolution is a measure of pixels wide by pixels high regardless of actual physical width or height. 3840x2160 might sound like high resolution, but applied to cover a 3 meter wide wall its physical density (32.5 DPI) is very much lower than is a 40 HDTV screen's (55.1 DPI), a 24 1920x1200 screen (94.3 DPI), or a 2880X1800 15.4 Retina laptop (220 DPI). Density is what matters, not of itself resolution. DE means desktop environment. In Windows and Mac, DEs are traditionally not options, while in Linux, quite a number of desktop environments exist, among them, Gnome, IceWM, KDE, LXDE, Mate, Unity XFCE. DEs for desktop systems (and the software than runs on them, including web browsers) almost universally by default assume a display density of 96 DPI (or PPI), same as the CSS reference px unit. As densities are assumed by the display environment software, they are logical as opposed to physical, except when assumed and physical happen to coincide, as is typically the case for a '17' 1280x1024 LCD (within ~1% or so), but not for very many other common sizes. In Geckos, variations in assumed DPI have no impact on its 16px OEM default size, which physically speaking is 12pt whenever the DPI is in fact 96. If you adjust the DE's logical DPI upward on account of use of a high density display device, you get no change in px size of fonts within its viewport, while in IE, you do get bigger fonts in the viewport (as well as in its, and Gecko's, UI). To get bigger fonts in px from Geckos requires either settings personalization, zoom, or bigger CSS size declarations, all of which are effective in IE as well, but often obviated from necessity because IE's default automatically goes up as DE DPI goes up, e.g., default @120 DPI being 20px instead of the 16px that it is @96, or 24px when DPI is 144. I thought doing fonts in EM was a good thing ? :) The reason it's ostensibly a good thing is because there is positive non-zero rational relationship between a CSS size declaration in em, and to optimal as reflected by the browser default size, which does not exist for a px unit. In actual practice em is typically better than px only in theory, the difference being that a size in px is 100% arbitrary, disregarding optimal entirely, while stylists typically declare an arbitrary fraction of the optimal size, often 62.5%, .76em or 80%, as the base CSS font size. What makes em sometimes better in practice is that as display density increases, the px unit decreases in physical size (to a point, after which it doubles, and then at another point, after which it in effect will have tripled, etc.), while the em unit remains at the arbitrary fraction declared, which enjoys some likelihood to have been either manually or automatically adjusted to compensate for a high physical device pixel density. -- The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive. Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
