date:20020707


-Caveat Lector-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_2102000/2102081.stm

Friday, 5 July, 2002, 23:46 GMT 00:46 UK
Jenin deaths video implicates army

WATCH/LISTEN ON THIS STORY
The BBC's Orla Guerin: Watch the video footage from Jenin
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/video/38119000/rm/_38119247_israel22_guerin_vi.ram

The boys' father showed the tape to the BBC's Orla Guerin
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38119000/jpg/_38119223_video300.jpg

The BBC has obtained video footage which appears to show an incident in the
West Bank city of Jenin two weeks ago in which two Palestinian children were
killed by Israeli tank fire.

Ahmad asked me for money because
he wanted to buy a chocolate bar.
I loved him and his brother so much.
 Dead boys' father

The Israeli army has apologised for causing the deaths of six-year-old Ahmad
Abu Aziz and his 13-year-old brother Jamil, but said the tank crew opened
fire to deter Palestinians breaking a curfew and approaching them.

However, the footage shows a tank firing the first of two shells, at close
range, at a group of civilians who are running away.

The dead boys' father, Youssef Abu Aziz, told the BBC that they had gone
outside to buy chocolate, thinking the Israeli curfew imposed on their city
had been lifted.

Click here to see images from the video

The film of their last moments begins with the two boys and a number of
other civilians running towards the camera along an otherwise deserted
street in Jenin.

Filmed from high building some distance away the footage is shaky, but
clearly shows the sequence of events.

Father Youssef says he thought the curfew had been lifted
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38119000/jpg/_38119218_father150.jpg

A white car speeds along the road, horn blaring, the driver - Dr Samer
al-Ahmad - apparently warning the people to run for their lives.

Now recovering from his wounds, Dr al-Ahmad told the BBC that, moments
earlier, an Israeli officer had said to him that it was allowed for him to
be on the streets.

But then he said the tank crew opened fire on him with a machine-gun
without warning... I was hit but I drove on.

Soon afterwards in the film, the Israeli tank appears at the end of the
street. It stops for a few seconds before firing in the direction of the
retreating Palestinians, the blast engulfing it in a ball of flame and
smoke.

Questions to answer

I thought there was no danger, says Mr Abu Aziz.

Ahmad asked me for money because he wanted to buy a chocolate bar. I loved
him and his brother so much. Ahmad was buried with the chocolate in his
hand.

The boys are now considered martyrs by Palestinians
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38119000/jpg/_38119220_poster150.jpg

The troops entered Jenin and imposed a curfew as part of a massive security
operation Israel said was designed stamp out the militant cells which have
launched dozens of suicide attacks in the past two years.

Twenty-three suicide bombers have come from Jenin alone, earning it the
reputation in Israel as the capital of terrorism.

The Israeli army says its still investigating what happened that day.

BBC correspondent Orla Guerin, who viewed at first had the Abu Aziz tape,
says the army has many questions to answer, including:

If the soldiers wanted to clear the street why didn't they fire warning
shots?
Why were tank shells used in a crowded civilian area?
Our correspondent says Israel has a poor record in prosecuting its own
soldiers when faced with evidence like that seen in the tape.

When the Israeli army was asked to comment on the footage, it refused.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38119000/jpg/_38119221_sequence300.jpg
Top: The two boys and others run on the street; Dr al-Ahmad's car approaches
Bottom: Israeli tank appears, and opens fire

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[CTRL] A Tale of Two Coups


-Caveat Lector-

http://www.gregpalast.com/printerfriendly.cfm?artid=169

A Tale of Two Coups
by Greg Palast
New Internationalist Magazine

Monday, July 1, 2002

The big business-led coup in Venezuela failed, where international finance's
coup in Argentina has succeeded. Greg Palast gives us the inside track on
two very different power-grabs.

Blondes in revolt

On May Day, starting out from the Hilton Hotel, 200,000 blondes marched East
through Caracas' shopping corridor along Casanova Avenue. At the same time,
half a million brunettes converged on them from the West. It would all seem
like a comic shampoo commercial if 16 people hadn't been shot dead two weeks
earlier when the two groups crossed paths.

The May Day brunettes support Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez. They
funnelled down from the ranchos, the pustules of crude red-brick bungalows,
stacked one on the other, that erupt on the steep, unstable hillsides
surrounding this city of five million. The bricks in some ranchos are new, a
recent improvement in these fetid, impromptu slums where many previously
sheltered behind cardboard walls. 'Chavez gives them bricks and milk,' a
local TV reporter told me, 'and so they vote for him.'

Chavez is dark and round as a cola nut. Like his followers, Chavez is an
'Indian'. But the blondes, the 'Spanish', are the owners of Venezuela. A
group near me on the blonde march screamed 'Out! Out!' in English, demanding
the removal of the President. One edible-oils executive, in high heels,
designer glasses and push-up bra had turned out, she said: 'To fight for
democracy.' She added: 'We'll try to do it institutionally,' a phrase that
meant nothing to me until a banker in pale pink lipstick explained that to
remove Chavez, 'we can't wait until the next election'.

The anti-Chavistas don't equate democracy with voting. With 80 per cent of
Venezuela's population at or below the poverty level, elections are not
attractive to the protesting financiers. Chavez had won the election in 1998
with a crushing 58 per cent of the popular vote and that was unlikely to
change except at gunpoint.

And so on 12 April the business leadership of Venezuela, backed by a few
'Spanish' generals, turned their guns on the Presidential Palace and
kidnapped Chavez. Pedro Carmona, the chief of Fedecamaras, the nation's
confederation of business and industry, declared himself President. This
coup, one might say, was the ultimate in corporate lobbying. Within hours,
he set about voiding the 49 Chavez laws that had so annoyed the captains of
industry, executives of the foreign oil companies and latifundistas, the big
plantation owners.

The banker's embrace

Carmona had dressed himself in impressive ribbons and braids for the
inauguration. In the Miraflores ballroom, filled with the Venezuelan élite,
Ignazio Salvatierra, president of the Banker's Association, signed his name
to Carmona's self-election with a grand flourish. The two hugged emotionally
as the audience applauded.

Carmona then decreed the dissolution of his nation's congress and supreme
court while the business peopled clapped and chanted, 'Democracia!
Democracia!' I later learned the Cardinal of Caracas had led Carmona into
the Presidential Palace, a final Genet-esque touch to this delusional drama.
This fantasy would evaporate by the crowing of the cock,¹ as Chavez told me
in his poetic way.

Chavez minister Miguel Bustamante-Madriz, who had escaped the coup, led
60,000 brunettes down from Barrio Petare to Miraflores. As thousands marched
against the coup, Caracas television stations, owned by media barons who
supported (and possibly planned the coup) played soap operas. The station
owned hoped their lack of coverage would keep the Chavista crowd from
swelling; but it doubled and doubled and doubled. On l3 April, they were
ready to die for Chavez.

They did not have to. Carmona, fresh from his fantasy inaugural, received a
call from the head of a pro-Chavez paratroop regiment stationed in Maracay,
outside the capital. To avoid bloodshed, Chavez had agreed to his own
'arrest' and removal by the putschists, but did not mention to the plotters
that several hundred loyal troops had entered secret corridors under the
Palace. Carmona, surrounded, could choose his method of death: bullets from
the inside, rockets from above, or dismemberment by the encircling 'bricks
and milk' crowd. Carmona took off his costume ribbons and surrendered.

Taking on the oil giants

I interviewed Carmona while I leaned out the fourth floor window of an
apartment in La Alombra, a high-rise building complex. I spoke my pidgin
Spanish across to his balcony on the building a few yards away. The one-time
petrochemical mogul was under house arrest - the lucky bastard. If he had
attempted to overthrow the President of Kazakhstan (or for that matter, the
President of the US), he would by now have a bullet in his skull. Chavez, in
a gracious if strained nod to the ultimate authority of the privileged,
simply

[CTRL] (Fwd) LA Airport Shooter is Hashem Mohamed Hadayat - Egyptian Jihad Terrorist

2002-07-07 Thread klewis

-Caveat Lector-

From: David Bier [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Spy News, Global Observer

The attached article pins it down pretty well that
Hashem Mohamed Hadayat,
who killed two persons at the Los Angeles Airport on
July 4th, was a
terrorist for Egyptian Jihad, whose leader, Dr.
Zawahiri, is also a senior
leader of Al Qaeda.. Hadayat had been working
undercover in the U.S. with
possibly one previous mission, involving the October,
1999 killing of an
Egyptian military team (that had just finished command
and control training
that would permit more effective anti-terror operations
against Egyptian
Jihad and other terrorists in Egypt), already
successfully accomplished.

Thus, the action has to be assumed a terrorist event
even though it is odd
that it occurred as a singleton event, vice part of an
orchestrated series
by Egyptian Jihad and Al Qaeda. Such a series of
attacks has been expected
during this critical U.S. holiday period but so far has
not happened even
though Al Qaeda moved about 100 fighters into the U.S.
in April, May and
June.

One must marvel at Hadayat's calmness of mind. First,
he made sure that his
family was safely in Egypt, arriving there ten days
before. Then, on
Thursday, while in the final stages of initiating an
action that most
certainly would mean his death, he took time out
(according to news reports)
to call his father in Egypt to permit his father to
extend birthday
greetings to him. His conversation with his father was
very cordial;
revealing nothing of what he intended to do a short
time later.

A dedicated, committed terrorist putting in another day
on the job.

Probably one of many undercover operatives put in place
in the U.S. by Al
Qaeda and its affiliated groups. Some of them foreign
nationals like Hadayat
and others U.S. citizens who were part of the estimated
1,000 to 2,000
jihadists coming from Wahhabi-financed U.S. mosques
who went to Pakistan
and then on into Afghanistan for training in the last
several years.

As I have said many times, the war on terror is going
to be a long one
fought on many fronts, one of which may be down your
street...or mine.

David Bier

=

Counter Terror Sources:
Hadayat Belonged to Egyptian Jihad al Qaeda's
Operational Arm

5 July:

Hashem Mohamed Hadayat, 41, who gunned down Yakov
Aminov, 46, and Vicky Hen,
25 - both from Los Angeles - on the 4th of July at the
El Al terminal of Los
Angeles, and wounded 7 others, is revealed by
DEBKAfile's intelligence and
counter-terror sources as a Muslim extremist.

 During his ten years in the United States, he was
a secret operative of
the Egyptian Jihad who maintained undercover links to
the same Jihad cell in
Brooklyn, New York, as the blind sheikh Abdul Rahim
Rahman and Ramzi
Yousef. Both are doing time for perpetrating the first
attack on the New
York World Trade Center in 1993.

Hadayat is also believed to have abetted a previous,
contrived airline
disaster:

 On October 31, 1999, an Egyptair Boeing 767 Flight
990, which also took
off from Los Angeles airport for Kennedy, New York.
After Kennedy, the plane
bound for Cairo plunged into the Atlantic off the
Nantucket Island, Mass.
coast, killing all 217 passengers and crew. In a
special probe, the US
National Transportation Safety Board found that the
copilot Gameel
el-Batouty was at the controls when the plane went into
its dive. His voice
was recorded shouting,

I put my faith in Allah!

 The report held back from referring more directly
to the Egyptian
copilot's responsibility for the crash.

Our sources affirm that Hadayat, who lived in Irvine,
California, 70 km
south of Los Angeles, knew Batouty well. There are also
indications that, in
the years 1998 and 1999, Hadayat was in touch with a
group of high Egyptian
air force officers and helicopter pilots posted at the
time at Edwards Base
north of Los Angeles. They were there to learn how to
install command and
control centers in Egypt's air defense systems, operate
anti-air missile
batteries and fly Apache gunships.

 Most of those officers were on the doomed Egyptian
airliner after
completing their courses. Although the long-delayed US
Transportation Board
report never referred to the presence of this high-
ranking Egyptian air
force delegation on the flight, DEBKAfile 's Washington
sources reported at
the time that most of the investigators were satisfied
that Batouty could
not have seized control of the Boeing 767 without the
aid - certainly the
compliance - of those officers.

Two years ago, Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak exerted
all his influence on
President Clinton to keep the federal board's findings
out of its published
report and, above all, the fact that a group of
Egyptian air force officers
was on the plane. He warned that citing the Egyptian
copilot as deliberately
causing the crash would have a negative effect on
Egyptian-US relations.
The report therefore fell short of clear conclusions.

Hadayat's murderous attack on El Al flight 106
passengers points

Re: [CTRL] Way OT


-Caveat Lector-

I can't help you with your Saba problem, but I can tell you that
Yahoogroups has been ALL screwed up for about 2 weeks. The messages are
making it to the group web page, but email delivery is taking up to a
week. Not just this list either. Activity on a couple of other lists
I'm on has ground to a halt because of this.

Tenorlove

--- thew [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 -Caveat Lector-


 I know it must be a weird masochism I don¹t understand
 But sometimes I miss saba.

 Is anyone else having problems on the other list?


 --
 All the thoughts of a turtle are turtle

   Emerson, Journals, 1855







 NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew


 A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A
 DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
 ==
 CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing
 propagandic
 screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
 sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths,
 mis-
 directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different
 groups with
 major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and
 thought.
 That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts,
 and
 always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
 credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

 Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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[CTRL] Al-Hayat: LAX gunman may have met with bin Laden deputy

-Caveat Lector-

Al-Hayat: LAX gunman may have met with bin Laden deputy

By Zohar Blumenkrantz and Benny Landau, Ha'aretz
Correspondents, Ha'aretz Service and
agencies

July 7, 2002

Authorities are investigating whether Hesham Mohammed
Hadayet, the Egyptian who gunned
down two people at Los Angeles International Airport last
Thursday, met in the United States
with Osama bin Laden's deputy, an Arabic paper reported at
the weekend.

The London-based Al-Hayat said that authorities were
checking whether Hadayet had met with
Ayman Al-Zawahiri in 1995 and again in 1998, while the
latter was head of the Al-Jihad
organization in Egypt.

Al-Zawahiri, who visited California in 1998, went on to
become bin Laden's right-hand man. His
current whereabouts are unknown.

Hadayet, 41, was shot dead by an El Al security official
soon after opening fire on the crowd of
people queuing at the ticket counter of Israel's national
carrier.

The U.S. government had started deportation proceedings in
1996 against Hadayet but he
gained U.S. residency the following year when his wife
received a valid visa, officials said
Saturday.

It wasn't clear what caused the Immigration and
Naturalization Service to reject Hadayet's first
petition for residency and begin the deportation process,
INS spokesman Francisco Arcaute
said.

A year later, in 1997, Hadayet was granted permanent
resident status because his wife, Hala,
had become a permanent resident, Arcaute said. The INS
allows foreign nationals to work and
live in the United States if they have a relative who is a
U.S. citizen or permanent resident.

Hadayet's uncle, Hassan Mostaffa Mahfouz, told The
Associated Press in Egypt that Hadayet
was happy in the United States and had only about a year
remaining before he qualified for
U.S. citizenship.

I don't believe what happened, Mahfouz said.

The two people killed in the attack at El Al's ticket
counter at Los Angeles International Airport
were identified as Ya'akov Aminov, 47, and El Al stewardess
Vicky Chen, both of them residents
of Los Angeles, Israel Radio reported Friday morning.

Egypt FM surprised at furor over El Al shooting
Egypt's foreign minister expressed surprise Saturday at the
furor over a deadly attack by an
Egyptian national at Los Angeles airport, saying the motives
were still unclear and similar
incidents occurred frequently.

Egypt's official Middle East News Agency (MENA) said
Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmed Maher
told reporters in Cairo that such incidents occur repeatedly
in the United States and other
countries and said he was surprised by the exaggeration of
this event in particular.

Until now, nobody knows the motives behind this incident.
We have to await the outcome of the
current investigations so that we can review them, MENA
quoted Maher as saying.

Egypt's semi-official al-Ahram daily said Saturday that
local security authorities had no
information on record about Hadayet and there was no
evidence he had any links to extremist
activities when he lived in Egypt.

Ex-employee tells NY Times: Hadayet 'had hate for Israel'
In an interview to The New York Times published Saturday, a
former employee of Hadayet that
he often heard his boss express virulent anti-Israeli
sentiments.

Hadayet had hate for Israel, for sure, Syrian-born Abdul
Zahab told The New York Times. He
told me that the Israelis tried to destroy the Egyptian
nation and the Egyptian population by
sending prostitutes with AIDS to Egypt. He said that the two
biggest drug dealers in New York
are Israeli.

The FBI said Friday it had no indication suggesting that the
attack was an act of terrorism, but
said the gunman's motive was still unclear.

He was not on any FBI or FAA watch list, FBI agent Richard
Garcia told a news conference.
He added that authorities still had several days work to do
to determine whether this person
acted in an act of terrorism.

We have not determined whether he had any anti-Israeli
views, Garcia said, adding that it was
still very difficult to determine the exact motive for the
shooting.

The FBI said earlier that Hadayet apparently was not
connected to any terror organizations, and
probably acted on his own.

* Find this article at:

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=184061contrassID=1subContrassID=0sbSubContrassID=0

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[CTRL] Jerusalem Post Editorial: No 'isolated incident'


-Caveat Lector-

 No 'isolated incident'

 Editorial

 The Jerusalem Post

 July 7, 2002

 CNN's coverage of Thursday night's attack on the El Al
 counter at Los Angeles Airport must
 have puzzled local viewers.

 The obvious first assumption, given the timing and location
 of the incident, would surely be that
 it was a terror strike as was indeed stated immediately by
 Israeli officials. Yet CNN's
 broadcaster seemed at pains to stress that no such evidence
 was yet available (as if it could
 be) to draw such a conclusion. Instead, several other
 theories were floated. Perhaps it was a
 work dispute, since early eyewitness accounts supposedly
 had the attacker shouting out
 They cost me my job! Others apparently described it as an
 altercation that got out of hand,
 and CNN's newscaster even helpfully reminded viewers that
 California is a place where a lot of
 people walk about carrying around guns.

 This wasn't just a media line. US law enforcement officials
 also seemed to reluctant to label the
 incident a terrorist attack, instead saying that at first
 glance it appeared to be an isolated
 incident. One American security expert appeared on the air
 confidently declaring that it was
 unlikely to be the forewarned al-Qaida strike on July 4,
 because that group prefers committing
 large-scale terror attacks as if al-Qaida operated only
 according to some kind of strictly
 followed playbook.

 Even after the assailant was identified as Hesham Muhammad
 Ali Hadayet, an Egyptian
 national who has spent the past 12 years in the US, local
 law enforcement officials continued to
 resist drawing the obvious conclusion. Because Hadayet had
 no prior known links with terrorist
 groups, Richard Garcia, the FBI agent in charge of the
 investigation, told The New York Times
 it just as well could have been a hate crime, or perhaps
 Hadayet might simply have been
 despondent for some as yet unknown reason, perhaps a
 financial problem or a family dispute,
 and that despair drove him to violence.

 It may well be that Hadayet had personal problems. It is
 also clear that he was capable of hate.
 He had hate for Israel, for sure, the Times quoted one
 former employee in Hadayet's limousine
 service, who added He [Hadayet] told me that the Israelis
 tried to destroy the Egyptian nation
 and the Egyptian population by sending prostitutes with AIDS
 to Egypt.

 The Israel/AIDS conspiracy is a fantastic anti-Semitic
 canard widely circulated in Arab circles
 during the past decade. Perhaps Hadayet read about it in
 Egyptian newspapers sent from
 home, or saw it on anti-Israeli Internet sites, or heard it
 discussed in the local mosques near his
 home in the Los Angeles suburb of Irvine, described by an
 Israeli official in one report as a
 problematic center of anti-Israel rhetoric recently.

 The notion that an individual like Hadayet necessarily
 needed a direct personal order from the
 likes of Osama bin Laden to carry out his nefarious deed for
 it to be characterized as a terror
 attack rather than isolated incident, hate crime, or
 despondent act is a dangerously
 misguided one. It is misguided about the nature of terrorism
 in general, and about the nature of
 the enemy America is facing in specific. Haven't bin Laden
 and other Islamic terrorist leaders
 publicly called on individual Muslims like Hadayet to commit
 such acts? And when they do, isn't
 that terrorism, pure and simple?

 Why the reluctance on the part of some in the US to
 acknowledge that this was clearly a
 terrorist attack on American soil? Because to do so would
 grant a victory to al-Qaida? Or
 because it would mean admitting that letting such a heavily
 armed man inside an airport terminal
 on a day when the nation was at the highest state of alert
 was a clear lapse of security? (Had
 Hadayet attacked any counter other then El Al, one wonders
 if he would have been stopped so
 quickly and prevented from killing many others).

 Or is this a sign that even after 9/11, many Americans are
 still grappling with the mind shift
 needed to wage an extended war on terrorism both at home and
 abroad?

 Even the early characterizations of the victims as Israelis
 Victoria Hen and Ya'acov Aminov were
 Israeli-Americans seemed intended to somehow shift the
 definition of the crime away from an
 act of terrorism against the US, to some kind of
 transplanted offshoot of the Israeli-Arab conflict.

 No wonder that Hen's family felt compelled to issue a
 statement flatly declaring: We the family
 believe that this was a murder, an act carried out by a
 terrorist against Israelis and American
 Israelis on American soil. We wish that the American
 government will once and for all take a
 clear and present stand on the issue of terror and will act
 on it.

 The intention here is not to criticize the US war on
 terrorism from an Israeli perspective. Israel
 has its own problems, both in psychological and practical
 terms, in dealing with terrorism. The
 US,

Re: [CTRL] Way OT

-Caveat Lector-
In a message dated 7/7/02 12:16:21 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


But sometimes I miss saba.

She ought to be reinstated...she has alot to offer and she does so in a very entertaining style. She is an invaluable resource and we were lucky to have her on this list. June ought to be reinstated too to provide balance. If we can keep the catfighting to a minimum (though I kinda' enjoy it) I think it's time for parole.

Bill.

Bill.
A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
 A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]/A

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
 A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

Re: [CTRL] Way OT


-Caveat Lector-

June IS on the list. I get posts from her every so often.

Tenorlove

--- William Shannon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 June ought to be reinstated too to provide balance.



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Re: [CTRL] Way OT

-Caveat Lector-
In a message dated 7/7/02 8:50:46 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


June IS on the list. I get posts from her every so often.

Saba is also on the list (I believe) but she and June are on a very limited posting privilege track. It's time to reinstate them both IMHO.

Bill.
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[CTRL] Fwd: Psycho Ashford's Obsessive Vendetta: Lynch Johnny Lindh


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The Bigger Picture

7.7.02
Psycho Ashford's Obsessive Vendetta: Lynch Johnny Lindh


Ashcroft -- a deranged, psychotic, DEEPLY sociopathic criminal, should
be put on trial IMMEDIATELY for proven massive attacks against bedrock
principles set forth in the U.S. Constitution and Declaration of Independence.
= = = = = = = =
http://www.counterpunch.org/baughman0705.html

July 5, 2002

Ashcroft's Vendetta:
Lynching John Walker Lindh

by Steve Baughman

The frenzied cry to string John Walker Lindh up by his thumbs is a fine
example of America's determination never to let facts get in the way of
a good temper tantrum. Attorney General John Ashcroft accuses Lindh of
dedicating himself to killing Americans, and a 10-count felony
indictment includes allegations that Lindh committed conspiracy to
murder United States nationals.

The Attorney General even went so far as to accuse Lindh of complicity
in the atrocities of September 11. At his January 15, 2002 press
conference Aschroft stated that the filing of criminal charges against
Lindh was compelled by the inescapable fact of September the 11th. We
cannot, Ashcroft said, overlook attacks on America when they come from
United States citizens.

The mainstream media coverage of this case has been characteristically
shoddy, shallow and sensational. Much attention has been given to
Lindh's Marin County upbringing and to the pathetic attempts by his
parents to make him look like a good boy. Less frivolous commentary has
tended to focus on such things as the conditions of Lindh's battlefield
confinement, whether he was properly Mirandized and whether his
statements will be admissible at trial. Almost completely absent has
been a discussion of what exactly Lindh did and whether it justifies the
government's attempt to put him away for life plus 90 years.

A close look at the facts will embarrass both the government and the
mainstream press. It will also shame the alternative media, which has
been unforgivably silent about what seems to be a blatantly political
prosecution of a United States citizen.

A detailed account of Lindh's conduct can be found in the overt acts
section of the indictment, a 21-paragraph recitation of his journey from
Pakistan to Afghanistan to prison. Its most striking feature is the
absence of evidence that Lindh engaged in, attempted to engage in,
assisted or attempted to assist others in engaging in acts of terror
against the United States. Indeed, it makes abundantly clear that Lindh
was simply on a mission to prevent the Northern Alliance from retaking Afghanistan.

The indictment alleges that Lindh entered Afghanistan in May or June of
2001 for the purpose of taking up arms with the Taliban. He then
presented a letter to Mujahideen headquarters in Kabul and indicated
that he wanted to go to the front lines to fight. He later underwent
military training at an al-Qaeda training camp. In June or July of
2001 he left Kabul for the front. After the United States entered the
conflict in October of 2001, Lindh remained with his unit until they
were captured in November. It is nowhere alleged that Lindh ever fired a
shot at anyone. He and several other trainees also met with Osama bin
Laden in the summer of 2001 for several minutes. During this meeting bin
Laden thanked him and other trainees for taking part in jihad.

That's it. That's the government's case. That's the basis of the
hysterical cries to throw away all keys. Where, one wonders, is the
evidence of intent to murder United States nationals or to assist in
attacks on America? And if these rather tame facts are not
sufficiently humbling for the lynch mob, there

[CTRL] Pedophilia's Double Standard

-Caveat Lector-
http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/hitchens_22_3.html

Pedophilia's Double Standard
by Christopher Hitchens

The following article is from Free Inquiry magazine, Volume 21, Number 1.

You often hear it said that religion, or religious belief, has the effect of making people behave better even if the metaphysical claims of faith are ill-founded or untrue. Bertrand Russell mounted a spirited attack on this opinion, on what were mainly empirical grounds, in his essay Why I Am Not a Christian. Actually, I rather like to see arguments in defense of faith mounted in a utilitarian manner in their turn, because this represents a huge if unadmitted concession to secular morality. However, the falsity or inconsistency even of such a weakened position needs to be exposed every now and again andâwhile Russell dealt chiefly with the pastâthere is no time like the present. During the notorious "Moors Murders" case in Britain in the late 1960s, when a series of children were tortured to death and then buried in a remote and hilly territory, the conservative novelist John Braine wrote a furious response to liberal relativism and its then-fashionable saying that in such cases "We are all guilty." He could not, he said, consent to any such proposition. Nor could he blame anything so amorphous as "society." Rather than do what the accused had done, he would prefer to have died.

I dare say that any reader of this magazine would affirm the same, whether they were parents, grandparents, or not. The prohibition against cruelty or violence to infants is quite ancient and very common to all cultures, so that we remember the exceptionsâSparta, for exampleâvery well. It's probably encoded in us in some way; it hardly needs the very memorable condemnation that it receives from Jesus of Nazareth, who is supposed to have said that, rather than perpetrate such a hideous offense, it would be better for the guilty to have a millstone put around their necks and to try and hide their shame in the depths of the sea.

Given that, the existence of a vast pedophile ring in the United States in the twenty-first century is something more than an affront to "family values." And the fact that this ring is operated by named and senior churchmen, who continue to hold high office and to officiate at Sunday ceremonies, is something more than an outrage. Alleged "cultists" in Waco, Texas, who were only suspected of maltreating children inside their compound, were immolated by a bombardment of federal fire. The admitted and confessed enablers and protectors of rapists and child abusers are invited, at the most, only to resign their high offices. And even this suggestion is something that they feel strong enough to repudiate-and with indignation at that.

No doubt there are some secular institutions, such as prisons, where the incidence of sexual torture and rape is, so to speak, part of the system. But even these places take some care to protect the underage from predators. What continually strikes the reader of each successive case involving the churches is that the ghastly recurrence is truly systematic, if not indeed routine. I do not wish to seem sectarian, but I will risk the accusation. The Protestant churches and some prominent synagogues in Florida and New York appear to have been bad enough, in resorting at once to denial and to cover-up. The Roman Catholic Church, however, has been behaving as if, without the opportunity for sex with the underage, its whole ministry would collapse.

If I knowingly sheltered a torturer and abuser of children, or lied about my knowledge of him, or (aware of his record) pressed him upon my neighbors as a child-minder or babysitter, and if I stood to profit by these actions or inactions, I would expect more from the forces of law and order than a dirty look. So intense is our obsession with this crime, indeed, that many innocent teachers and even Web-site surfers have had their careers and lives ruined by even the suggestion of it. But here are the men of god, calmly engaged in the racket and evidently irritated by the resulting fuss.

It is quite obvious that, with recidivism at this level, one must look to the actual practices of the Catholic Church. The celibacy requirement, which is peculiar to Catholic Christians, is obviously a part of it. So is the renowned insistence of the Catholic Church on gaining authority over children, for doctrinal reasons, at the earliest possible age. The authority that is exerted, often by newly ordained and unstable young men, is a teaching entirely drenched in the obsession with all kinds of sex, and in the requirement to repress or prohibit a huge list of sexual behaviors. Moving along the continuum of priestly and episcopal hierarchy, one finds elderly but somehow useless men who may never have abused a child themselves, but cannot quite see why there is any outcry. I wager that they would not act like this if they had had the chance to be

[CTRL] Pole-Shift?

-Caveat Lector-
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/story/0,3605,748510,00.html

Fatal attraction
Earth's magnetic field is showing strong signs that the poles are due to switch over. It could be the end of the world as we know it, writes Paul Simons

Thursday July 4, 2002

The Earth could be about to turn upside down. The planet's magnetic field is showing signs of wanting to make a gigantic somersault, so that magnetic north heads towards Antarctica, and magnetic south goes north. Compasses will point the wrong way, and migrating birds, fish and turtles are going to be very confused.

Just when this will happen, how long it will take and what the consequences will be, is difficult to fathom. What is not in doubt, though, is that it will happen. About every half a million years or so, the Earth's magnetic field flips upside down.

The story begins in 1600, when Sir William Gilbert, physician to Queen Elizabeth I, suggested that the Earth was a giant magnet. At the magnetic poles, a compass needle would stand up and point straight down into the Earth. And he was right, up to a point. The magnetic poles are where all the lines of force of Earth's magnetic field are drawn together. It does not coincide with the geographic poles, the axis on which the Earth spins, but it is close.

Yet the Earth is not a solid magnet. For one thing, its magnetic poles are constantly drifting around. At present, magnetic north is heading out of Canadian territory into the Arctic Ocean at about 10 miles per year. Also, a bar magnet quickly loses its power, yet the Earth's magnetic field has been around for billions of years, so something is regenerating it. This is why Einstein remarked that the origin of the Earth's magnetic field was one of the greatest mysteries of physics.

Today, we think that magnetic power comes from the Earth's hot outer shell of molten iron sloshing around a solid inner core. As this subterranean ocean of liquid metal slowly whirls around, it behaves like a dynamo generating electrical currents and magnetic fields. Just like the flickering light on a bicycle powered by a dynamo, the Earth's currents are a little erratic, and so the magnetic field at the surface of the Earth fluctuates.

We know the magnetic polarity goes topsy-turvy from rocks on the bed of the Atlantic Ocean. Along the middle of the Atlantic runs a gigantic crack from which lava oozes. As the lava solidifies into rock, it records the Earth's magnetic polarity at the time. These records show that we are due for another flip about now. But the Earth does not keep a regular rhythm, so no one could make a prediction based on past performance alone. There is, however, more convincing proof that we are heading for a tumble. Each time the magnetic field heads for a reversal, it grows weaker over several thousand years until it almost disappears. Then it switches and starts up again with renewed vigour.

Magnetism trapped in ancient pottery shows that over the past 4,000 years, the magnetic field has weakened by more than 50%. This past century, the strength has dropped by 5%. At this rate, the field might disappear in the next few hundred or thousand years. Another warning sign of an imminent flip has come recently from satellite measurements of the Earth's magnetic field.

A team led by Gauthier Hulot, of the Institut de Physique du Globe de Paris, has spotted patches of reversed magnetism concentrated in two places just underneath the Earth's outer mantle. In the largest patch, beneath the southern tip of Africa, the magnetic field is pointing towards the centre of the Earth, instead of outwards. The other patch is near the north pole.

Some experts have stuck their necks out to predict that we can expect the next reversal some time in the next 2,000 years. The process would probably then take anything between 100 and a few thousand years - not even a blink in the history of Earth. We can only guess what life would be like during that reversal. Anyone trying to navigate with a magnetic compass is going to have a tough time, but what is going to happen to all those birds, fish and other animals that migrate vast distances using their own internal magnetic compass? Will they have time to re-draw their magnetic maps and get new bearings?

Even more creatures such as bees and some bacteria use a sense of magnetism for finding their way around their local territories, for a north/south or up/down axis. The Earth's magnetic field also stretches several hundred miles into space and protects us from the sun's charged particles and cosmic rays by focusing them towards the poles. This is where they appear as the northern and southern lights as they excite gases in the atmosphere. As the magnetic poles migrate across the world, those night lights are going to light up some very strange places where they have never been seen before. During a field reversal, this protective magnetic shield is going to be weak and might even disappear for

[CTRL] Fwd: Why he WON'T serve in Sharon's brutal army of oppression


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7.7.02
Why he WON'T serve in Sharon's brutal army of oppression
 ** From The Guardian UK: Why I won't serve Sharon


 -- 'By branding any criticism of the suffering he inflicts on the
Palestinians as anti-semitic, Sharon is enlisting something sacred for
the vile colonial and expansionist ends he pursues. People in Britain,
Jews and non-Jews alike, should not lend a hand to such a despicable
attempt to desecrate the memory of Jewish suffering, and to use it to
justify the oppression of another people.' -- Shlomi Segall, IDF reserve
staff sgt.


= = = = = = = =
[Reserve staff sergeant Shlomi Segall is one of 467 IDF soldiers and
officers who have signed a letter stating that they refuse to serve in
the illegally occupied territories any more. Segall argues that Sharon
is provoking Palestinian suicide attacks and then cynically using them
to oppress the Palestinian people and destroy Palestinian culture. It is
with an almost palpable sense of relief that Segall announces he will no
longer collaborate with this shameful project. It is neither
anti-Semitic nor anti-Israeli to speak up against the occupation, Segall
argues: it is both proper and necessary. - JN]


Why I won't serve Sharon
Shlomi Segall
Friday July 5, 2002
The Guardian

  It is remarkable how easily one learns to live with occupation. When I
was born, the Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territories was
already three years old. When I became 18 the occupation was still in
full force, only by then the Palestinians had had enough of it. That was
the first intifada. I was there, along with many others, ready to serve
as the iron fist to crush the Palestinian resistance. Elsewhere people
our age contemplated going to university or travelling around the world,
but I and many young Israelis found ourselves in the narrow alleys of
Jebaliya and other refugee camps. We should have known better, but
almost without exception we didn't.

  Nearly eight years later I was still serving in the occupied
territories, this time as a reserve soldier. I was manning a roadblock,
stopping Palestinians from entering Israel en route to their low paid
jobs in the Israeli slave market. I remember talking to a friend,
trying to justify why I'd collaborated with a policy that denied a
Palestinian father the only means of bringing food to his children.

  No more. No more excuses. We members of Courage to Refuse, reserve
soldiers who have vowed not to serve in the occupied territories, will
not set foot beyond the 1967 line unless it is in civilian clothes and
as invited guests.

  Ariel Sharon will tell you that Israel is fighting a war for its
survival against a bloodthirsty enemy. Not so. Sharon and his cronies
are fighting a colonial war to keep their pet settlement project in
place, to perpetuate the Israeli occupation and the subjugation of the
Palestinian territories. It is a one-sided war with a not-so-covert
purpose of destroying any hope of a Palestinian homeland and independent
national life.

  Any suicide attack within Israel, deplorable as it is, is used by
Sharon as a pretext for inflicting ever-increasing misery on the 3.5
million inhabitants of Palestine. And if suicide attacks are not
forthcoming, you can count on Sharon to provoke them with his so-called
targeted killings, which usually leave alleged terrorists unharmed but
often leave women and children dead.

  In this so-called war, any pretext is used to inflict a second Nakba
(the catastrophe of 1948) on the Palestinians. Just look at the wanton
destruction of the Palestinian ministry of culture, the bureau of
statistics, the ministry of

[CTRL] 2 Birds, 1 Stone For Bush Jr.

-Caveat Lector-
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/metropolitan/1484920

July 5, 2002, 11:59PM
Hispanics praise new citizenship policy for military
Offer of immediate eligibility hailed as a 'show of good will'
By EDWARD HEGSTROM
Houston Chronicle

Hispanics, who have a long history in the U.S. military and could be a crucial part of its future, welcomed President Bush's decision to make it easier for immigrant soldiers to become citizens.

In a July Fourth speech to troops in West Virginia, Bush announced that he had signed an executive order making it immediately possible for 15,000 soldiers to become citizens. All of those who qualify are already legal permanent residents.

"I think it's a good idea," said Leonel Castillo, former director of the Immigration and Naturalization Service who now serves as adviser to Houston Mayor Lee Brown. "These are people who have demonstrated their loyalty."

Nelson Reyes, head of the Central American Refugee Center, an immigrant group that helps immigrants living in southwest Houston, called Bush's move a "show of good will," but he called on the president to go further by helping those immigrants who can't get into the military. By the time they qualify to enlist in the Army, immigrants have already overcome their most difficult legal hurdles.

Foreigners are allowed in the armed forces if they have obtained a Green Card granting legal permanent residency. It's the Green Card, rather than citizenship, that generally is the most difficult to obtain.

Hispanics take pride in their history of serving in the military.

"We have adopted this as our land, and we are ready to defend it," Reyes said.

A total of 40 Hispanics have won the Medal of Honor.

While most of the Hispanic war heroes were U.S. citizens, a few were not. Alfred Rascon, an Army medic in the Vietnam war, was still a Mexican citizen when he saved fellow soldiers in an act of bravery that later won him the Medal of Honor.

A total of 31,000 foreign citizens currently serve in the U.S. military.

Despite their history in the military, Hispanics represent less than 10 percent of the soldiers in the U.S. Army today.

"We know that Hispanics are underrepresented in the Army relative to their share of the U.S. population," Lt. Gen. John M. Le Moyne said in testimony before Congress earlier this year.

He said the Army has begun reaching out to immigrants through initiatives such as a new pilot program that allows Spanish-speaking recruits to attend intensive English courses before joining other soldiers in basic training.

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[CTRL] Fwd: Newsletter #8


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(http://davesweb.cnchost.com/). Please forward this newsletter widely.
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 NEWSLETTER #8
  July 7, 2002

Greetings to all subscribers!

Once upon a time, America had a president who liked to portray himself
as being just a good ol' boy. Sometimes he'd pop up in photos wearing
jeans and boots as he ambled about his ranch -- when he wasn't
purportedly steering the American ship-of-state.

The press had some reservations about him though. Sometimes he just
didn't seem to be, shall we say, fully in control of his mental
faculties. He would say things that didn't make much sense. He didn't
always know exactly which country he was visiting, or what foreign
head-of-state he was talking to. He had a hard time coming up with
coherent answers when he wasn't working from a script.

In September of the first year of his administration, a presidential
aide was quoted in a respected national news magazine as saying of his
boss: There are some uncomfortable moments, especially with guys like
[the Prime Minister of Canada], who have complete mastery of the
dossiers and can talk about these things off the top of their heads. The
President's not there yet, and my guess is that he won't ever be.

Some time later, one of the country's most influential daily newspapers
ran an op/ed piece that read, in part: This president is treated by
both the press and foreign leaders as if he were a child. He earns
respect for the ordinary, for what used to be expected. His occasional
ability to retain facts is cited as a triumph when it should, in fact,
be a routine occurrence.

Who was this mystery president? No ... we're not talking about George
Dumbya Bush here. The guy we're talking about did actually have verbal
communication skills -- he just rarely was lucid enough to know what he
was talking about.

We're talking here, of course, about Ronald Reagan -- who, even
suffering from the early effects of Alzheimer's, could speak more
intelligibly than Bush. The news magazine, by the way, was Newsweek
(September 7, 1981) and the newspaper was the Washington Post (June 2,
1983).

Twenty years later, we now have another White House occupant who earns
respect for the ordinary. In fact, he earns praise for what doesn't
even rise to the level of the ordinary. And the press hasn't even
taken the token swipes at him that they took twenty years ago at Reagan.

(the U.S. press, that is:
http://www.dailytelegraph.news.com.au/printpage/0,5942,4599307,00.html)

What we are witnessing here is a serious dumbing-down of the presidency.

What we are also seeing is a replay of the 1980s -- a not-so-lucid and
therefore easily manipulated pawn serving as a front-man for the guys
lurking in the shadows of both administrations -- George H.W. Bush and
his most trusted cronies, like Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney.

But at least in the good old days of the '80s, we were given a
charismatic 'leader' who seemed genuine and who had no shortage of
stories to entertain America with (and who was actually elected to his
position). The fact that we now have George Bush in the White House
illustrates that Washington's power brokers have grown so arrogant that
they no longer care how credible their front-man is, or how well he is
able to sell their agenda.

So expendable and insignificant is George considered to be that one of
the biggest stories of this past week was that he had passed the baton
to Dick

[CTRL] Uri Avnery: Israel - A Maddened Cow

-Caveat Lector-
http://www.rense.com/general26/cow.htm



Israel - A Maddened Cow
By Uri Avnery 
Former member of Israeli Parliament
7-6-2

Israel is the only state in the world that has a population of 200%. And that's a fact. 

Public opinion polls show that it has two simultaneous majorities. One is peace- loving, the other supports extreme nationalism. 

At the present time, it looks like this: In every public opinion poll there is a large majority that supports the Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon. Sharon wants, of course, to enlarge the settlements, intensify the war against the Palestinians, eliminate Yasser Arafat, postpone a permanent solution and refuse any peace negotiations until unattainable conditions are met. Anyone who supports him must be a radical right- winger. 

But the very same public opinion polls show also that a majority agrees to withdraw from (almost) all the occupied territories, dismantle (almost) all settlements and accept the establishment of a Palestinian state in return for peace. 

How is this possible? Can a state have a population of more than 100%? If so, Israel is a very special country. 

This curious situation did not come about yesterday. It started long ago. 

I remember public opinion polls of more than 20 years ago, which also revealed two majorities. The first majority supported the idea of expelling all Arabs from the country west of the Jordan river. The second one supported a withdrawal from the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Together with those who were against both proposals, this totaled 200%. 

Statisticians and sociologists examined, researched, shook their collective heads, shrugged their shoulders, raised both hands and thought: a crazy people. Doesn't know what it wants. Mixed up. Schizophrenic. Suffering from a split personality. 

But the people were not mad at all. The professors just did not know how to read the results of their polls. 

What the public tried to say was: If it were possible to drive out all the Arabs, that would be wonderful. If it's impossible, let's get the hell out of there. 

Why? For a simple reason: the one thing that unifies almost all Jewish Israelis is the wish to live in a state where there are only Jews. If we could achieve such a state in all the country between the Mediterranean and the Jordan river, O.K. If not, let's leave the occupied territories. Not "land for peace", but "withdrawal for the sake of safeguarding a homogeneous Jewish state". This is the majority opinion, and there is, indeed, only one majority. 

Some call this "racist". Some call it "nationalist". Some say that this is "apartheid". But this attitude is rooted in the fact that for thousands of years Jews have lived as a religious-ethnic community dispersed throughout the world and often suffered cruel persecution (especially in the Christian world). They have developed a ghetto mentality. They want to live among themselves, separate from others, surrounded by a high fence. 

Zionism wanted to achieve this by establishing a state where the Jews would live together, without Goyim (Gentiles). Even the presence of a considerable minority (the Arab citizens) in Israel creates severe mental stress. For most Israelis, the ideal situation would be a state without a single non-Jewish citizen. (The presence of foreign workers does not bother anybody; it is temporary, and they are devoid of any rights.) 

Lately this aspiration has found new expression in an idea which is becoming quite popular: to transfer the Israeli Arab villages adjoining the West Bank, together with their inhabitants, to the future Palestinian state, which means giving up territory so that Israel will have less non-Jewish citizens. 

This is quite unusual. The French, for example, have shed rivers of blood in order to keep Alsace, whose people are of German descent. India is ready to wage a nuclear war in order to keep Kashmir, which is populated by Muslims. For other nations, territory is more important than a homogeneous population, geography precedes demography. Israelis, too, like territory - but demography is by far more important to them. 

One example: after the 1956 war, during which Israel conquered the Sinai and the Gaza Strip, David Ben-Gurion was compelled to give up the Sinai. At the time there was a clamor from the right and the left to annex the Gaza Strip. Ben-Gurion adamantly refused, because he did not want to increase the number of Arab citizens by hundreds of thousands at any price. (The brilliant idea of an eternal military occupation, which allows the occupier to abstain from conferring citizenship on the occupied population, was not yet invented.) 

Today, too, there is only one majority in Israel. Most Israelis are ready to pay the price demanded for peace. So why do they support Sharon, who represents the opposite? For one simple reason: they have been brought to believe that "we have no partner". There is a complete unanimity, from Avigdor Liberman and Effy Eitam on

Re: [CTRL] Way OT

2002-07-07 Thread RevCOAL

-Caveat Lector-











  From: William Shannon But 
  sometimes I miss saba.She ought to be reinstated...she has 
  alot to offer 
  Puh-leeze! :-(
  The only thing 'she' ever had to offer is 
  unsubtantiated inanities...
  I'm still waiting for proof of 'her' 
  so-called "Bible Code" via a prediction BEFORE the fact...
  and she does so in a very 
  entertaining style. 
  Whatever 'entertainment' 'she' provides is 
  extremely thin and short-lived...
  She is an invaluable 
  resource
  PUH-LEEZE!
  "Resource" of what? Study material 
  for a case of rampant insanity?
  and we were lucky to have her on 
  this list.
  We were never lucky to have 'her' on the 
  list. We are lucky 'she' is gone...
  June ought to be reinstated too to 
  provide balance.
  I can't speak for the list-status of 
  Colleen/Saba, but I was never banned, so I don't need to be 
  reinstated. I've just been really busy of late, and haven't felt the 
  need to respond to recent postings to the list...  
  June 
  



	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	



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[CTRL] Fwd: [NewPacifica] The conspiracy theorists at FAIR


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---BeginMessage---

-Caveat Lector-


Those conspiracy theorists at FAIR expose something they call a lie
launching the Vietnam War.  What's the criteria/guidelines with regards to
exposing these things?  Do we have to allow a 30 year window to go by and
wait for millions to die in a war before we start looking into things?


30-Year Anniversary: Tonkin Gulf Lie Launched Vietnam War
http://www.fair.org/media-beat/940727.html

Media Beat, July 27, 1994
30-Year Anniversary: Tonkin Gulf Lie Launched Vietnam War
By Jeff Cohen and Norman Solomon

Thirty years ago, it all seemed very clear.

American Planes Hit North Vietnam After Second Attack on Our Destroyers;
Move Taken to Halt New Aggression, announced a Washington Post headline on
Aug. 5, 1964.

That same day, the front page of the New York Times reported: President
Johnson has ordered retaliatory action against gunboats and 'certain
supporting facilities in North Vietnam' after renewed attacks against
American destroyers in the Gulf of Tonkin.

But there was no second attack by North Vietnam -- no renewed attacks
against American destroyers. By reporting official claims as absolute
truths, American journalism opened the floodgates for the bloody Vietnam
War.

A pattern took hold: continuous government lies passed on by pliant mass
media...leading to over 50,000 American deaths and millions of Vietnamese
casualties.

The official story was that North Vietnamese torpedo boats launched an
unprovoked attack against a U.S. destroyer on routine patrol in the
Tonkin Gulf on Aug. 2 -- and that North Vietnamese PT boats followed up with
a deliberate attack on a pair of U.S. ships two days later.

The truth was very different.

Rather than being on a routine patrol Aug. 2, the U.S. destroyer Maddox was
actually engaged in aggressive intelligence-gathering maneuvers -- in sync
with coordinated attacks on North Vietnam by the South Vietnamese navy and
the Laotian air force.

The day before, two attacks on North Vietnam...had taken place, writes
scholar Daniel C. Hallin. Those assaults were part of a campaign of
increasing military pressure on the North that the United States had been
pursuing since early 1964.

On the night of Aug. 4, the Pentagon proclaimed that a second attack by
North Vietnamese PT boats had occurred earlier that day in the Tonkin Gulf
-- a report cited by President Johnson as he went on national TV that
evening to announce a momentous escalation in the war: air strikes against
North Vietnam.

But Johnson ordered U.S. bombers to retaliate for a North Vietnamese
torpedo attack that never happened.

Prior to the U.S. air strikes, top officials in Washington had reason to
doubt that any Aug. 4 attack by North Vietnam had occurred. Cables from the
U.S. task force commander in the Tonkin Gulf, Captain John J. Herrick,
referred to freak weather effects, almost total darkness and an
overeager sonarman who was hearing ship's own propeller beat.

One of the Navy pilots flying overhead that night was squadron commander
James Stockdale, who gained fame later as a POW and then Ross Perot's vice
presidential candidate. I had the best seat in the house to watch that
event, recalled Stockdale a few years ago, and our destroyers were just
shooting at phantom targets -- there were no PT boats there There was
nothing there but black water and American fire power.

In 1965, Lyndon Johnson commented: For all I know, our Navy was shooting at
whales out there.

But Johnson's deceitful speech of Aug. 4, 1964, won accolades from editorial
writers. The president, proclaimed the New York Times, went to the American
people last night with the somber facts. The Los Angeles Times urged
Americans

[CTRL] Fwd: [CIA-DRUGS] Re: MY THOUGHTS ON VREELAND


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always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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The Anglo-Germanic faction? Weren't
England and Germany at war with one one another a few decades
ago?

You didn't mention the China and Japan
factions.


  - Original Message - 
  From:
  nexusmagazine 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 2:21 AM
  Subject: [CIA-DRUGS] Re: MY THOUGHTS ON
  VREELAND
  Duncan, looks like you've come up with an
  imminently reasonable application of Occam's
  razor.From my vantage point, there are many sheer ANOMALIES
  enrapt with 911 and the subsequent anthrax mailings -- so many,
  indeed, that I hesitate to 'slam the door' on anything as being too
  outre.I totally agree.!To take just one instance of a tiny
  anomaly, in my eyes, is ... hypothetically speaking, if people who
  believe that this ultimately all leads back to Saudi Arabia are
  correct --- well, then WHY did the U.S. government have to immediately
  fly so many bin Laden relatives out of America. It is peculiar that a
  school child in NYC claimed the week beforehand that the WTC would no
  longer be seen outside his school window, but bin Ladens relatives
  living in this country had no foreknowledge?Although I'm not
  yet slamming any doors on anything, I tend to agree with Mike Ruppert
  that there will NEVER be any resolution and closure to any of the 911
  and anthrax investigations -- and therefore, since I am very prone to
  this conclusion -- then it follows that I must presume that his thesis
  that the highest eschelons of government are probably ultimately
  responsible is quite tenable ... therefore, I cannot personally
  generate livid anger with Vreeland... who afterall is an
  absolute stranger with a very strange story - like so many of the
  strange anomalous events transpiring since last September
  11th.I also am not angry at Vreeland, nor do I see why others need
  to be angry with him. Last time I checked, technically in the USA
  and Canada, someone was presumed truthful and innocent until proven
  otherwise. Vreeland might not have delivered the goods requested by
  some on this list, but he may have darn good reasons (from HIS point of
  view) not to.All the yelling at us to abandon Vreeland, and to doubt
  his character and integrity, makes me even more curious to see how it will
  pan out.If Vreeland WAS deemed expendable, and if he found that out -
  what would you expect him to do? Just run? Given a possible
  spook background, he would know that running is pointless. If I were
  in his shoes, I would be doing EXACTLY what he is doing. Attracting
  attention, holding cards close to my chest, and making noise.
  I have met a few ex-spooks during the last couple of decades, and
  have drawn a few conclusions from my discussions with them. I am no
  longer in touch with any of them, I might add:1) They are
  all human, and their effective 'use-by-date' is usually about 30-35 years
  of age. This seems to be when all their blind 'for the good of the
  country' rationale is used up. The ones I met were all disillusioned
  - mainly because they ended up learning or realising that they were being
  used for 'other agendas'. In most cases that they had committed acts
  (read atrocities) upon relatively innocent people, for a greater
  'good'. 2) Their knowledge of the big picture is
  useless. Information is so compartmentalised, and they are often fed
  believable but 'not the full-picture' data for their assingments.
  Ex-spooks can sometimes provide pieces of the picture, but ALL I have met
  have certainly shown plenty of ignorance of even matters many on this list
  know to be true.3) Information is compartmentalised, NOT because
  it may

[CTRL] Sheltering A Puppet Master?

2002-07-07 Thread klewis


-Caveat Lector-

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,300609,00.html

Sheltering A Puppet Master?
BY BRUCE CRUMLEY/PARIS

Sunday, Jul. 07, 2002
As worldwide investigations into the mysteries of the Sept. 11 terror
conspiracy roll on, officials in Europe have pondered an enigma:
Where is Abu Qatada? Described by some justice officials as the
spiritual leader and possible puppet master of al-Qaeda's European
networks, Abu Qatada has been missing since mid-December after
British authorities confiscated his passport, froze his assets and
ordered him confined to his London home. With Jordan seeking his
return to serve a life sentence for terror-related crimes, some
observers figured Abu Qatada went undergroundand perhaps left
Britainto avoid extradition. But senior European intelligence
officials tell TIME that Abu Qatada is tucked away in a safe house in
the north of England, where he and his family are being lodged, fed
and clothed by British intelligence services. The deal is that Abu
Qatada is deprived of contact with extremists in London and Europe
but can't be arrested or expelled because no one officially knows
where he is, says the source, whose claims were corroborated by
French authorities. The British win because the last thing they want
is a hot potato they can't extradite for fear of al-Qaeda reprisals but
whose presence contradicts London's support of the war on terror.
British security services officials declined to comment.

With reporting by Helen Gibson/London

--

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Re: [CTRL] Jerusalem Post Editorial: No 'isolated incident'


-Caveat Lector-

This is my reply to the original message on EEJH. Quotes from the
article are in  .

Tenorlove

and CNN's newscaster even helpfully reminded viewers that California
is a place where a lot of people walk about carrying around guns.

This is inaccurate. Only celebrities and politicians are allowed to
walk around with guns in California; the rest of the populace has been
disarmed.

Richard Garcia, the FBI agent in charge of the investigation, told
The New York Times it just as well could have been a hate crime, or
perhaps Hadayet might simply have been despondent for some as yet
unknown reason, perhaps a financial problem or a family dispute, and
that despair drove him to violence.

It may well be that Hadayet had personal problems. It is also clear
that he was capable of hate.

Not defending the guy at all, but naturally, he has to be cast as a
lone nut just like Oswald, Ruby, Sirhan, Chapman, Hinckley, McVeigh,
etc. etc. etc. ad nauseam. Even my 7 year old doesn't buy it.

The Israel/AIDS conspiracy is a fantastic anti-Semitic canard widely
circulated in Arab circles during the past decade.

I think this one is also circulated on our good buddies snort at La
Voz del Aztlan.

Why the reluctance on the part of some in the US to acknowledge that
this was clearly a terrorist attack on American soil?

Because it will hurt airline ticket sales. Follow the money. Unless
someone beats me to it, I can check to see how much interlocking there
is among the boards of directors for the airline companies and the
mainstream media.

because it would mean admitting that letting such a heavily armed man
inside an airport terminal on a day when the nation was at the highest
state of alert was a clear lapse of security?

Was this lapse deliberate??

(Had Hadayet attacked any counter other then El Al, one wonders if he
would have been stopped so quickly and prevented from killing many
others).

Coming from any other source than the JP, this statement would be
decried as antisemitic.

Or is this a sign that even after 9/11, many Americans are still
grappling with the mind shift needed to wage an extended war on
terrorism both at home and abroad?

Meaning that Americans have not been willing to lie down and surrender
their liberty as easily as say, the people of Germany in the 1930s.

But echoing the Hen family, one thing needs to be stated loud and
clear about last week's attack at LA airport. This was no isolated
incident. The enemies of America vowed to commit a terror strike on
American soil on July 4 and they succeeded. America needs to clearly
acknowledge this fact, draw the necessary conclusions, and then act on
them as swiftly as possible.

All I can say is, WATCH THE SPIN, and watch what new draconian laws get
proposed in the near future.

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Re: [CTRL] (Fwd) LA Airport Shooter is Hashem Mohamed Hadayat - Egyptian Jihad Terrorist


-Caveat Lector-

I love how this is used as some sort of proof
\
Like if you were in a crashing plane you wouldn't say anything like
Oh my god  or god help me


Of course the statement there are no atheists in foxholes is not a
condemnation of atheism so much as a condemnation of foxholes


on 7/7/02 8:58 AM, klewis at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 His voice
 was recorded shouting,

 I put my faith in Allah!

 The report held back from referring more directly
 to the Egyptian
 copilot's responsibility for the crash.

--  - --- -- ---
--
Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is a force. Like fire, it
is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be
left to irresponsible action.


George Washington


NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Re: [CTRL] Council on Foreign Relations Reading Materials


-Caveat Lector-

note:
Kashmiri's are not Arabs.

on 7/7/02 5:15 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 It is Kashmiris who may decide the future of the entire [Indian]
 subcontinent, wrote anthropologist
 Jonah Blank in Foreign Affairs two years ago. He discussed the various
 dimensions of the conflict
 over Kashmir, from the risk of nuclear war to Kashmirs place in the larger
 Islamist struggle in the
 Arab world.



It is not the function of our government to keep the
citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen
to keep the government from falling into error.

 Justice Robert H. Jackson




NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
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[CTRL] Londonistan Protects Its Own


-Caveat Lector-

From http://www.time.com/time/world/printout/0,8816,300609,00.html

}}}Begin
Sunday, Jul. 07, 2002
Sheltering A Puppet Master?
BY BRUCE CRUMLEY/PARIS

As worldwide investigations into the mysteries of the Sept. 11 terror conspiracy roll
on, officials in Europe have pondered an enigma: Where is Abu Qatada? Described
by some justice officials as the spiritual leader and possible puppet master of al-
Qaeda's European networks, Abu Qatada has been missing since mid-December
after British authorities confiscated his passport, froze his assets and ordered him
confined to his London home. With Jordan seeking his return to serve a life sentence
for terror-related crimes, some observers figured Abu Qatada went
undergroundand perhaps left Britainto avoid extradition. But senior European
intelligence officials tell TIME that Abu Qatada is tucked away in a safe house in the
north of England, where he and his family are being lodged, fed and clothed by
British intelligence services. The deal is that Abu Qatada is deprived of contact with
extremists in London and Europe but can't be arrested or expelled because no one
officially knows where he is, says the source, whose claims were corroborated by
French authorities. The British win because the last thing they want is a hot potato
they can't extradite for fear of al-Qaeda reprisals but whose presence contradicts
London's support of the war on terror. British security services officials declined to
comment.

With reporting by Helen Gibson/London
End{{{

~~~

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+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe
simply because it has been handed down for many generations. Do not
believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do
not believe in anything simply because it is written in Holy Scriptures. Do not
believe in anything merely on the authority of Teachers, elders or wise men.
Believe only after careful observation and analysis, when you find that it
agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all.
Then accept it and live up to it.
The Buddha on Belief, from the Kalama Sutta
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will
teach you to keep your mouth shut.
--- Ernest Hemingway

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==
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screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
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major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Cabinet in arms


-Caveat Lector-

From http://www.observer.co.uk/politics/story/0,6903,750948,00.html

}}}Begin
Cabinet in arms to Israel row

Kamal Ahmed, political editor
Sunday July 7, 2002
The Observer

Britain is bypassing its own arms embargo on Israel by selling military equipment via
America.

In a move that has split the Cabinet, the Foreign Office is set to reveal that
components for F16 fighter planes will be allowed to leave the country despite being
destined for aircraft already sold to Ariel Sharon's government.

The move will be viewed with dismay by Arab states and anti-arms campaigners who
say the arming of Israel raises tension in the area. One senior Government figure
said there was a 'clear understanding' the fighter planes could be used for
aggressive acts against the Occupied Territories, in direct contradiction to Tony
Blair's call for peace.

Israel regularly uses F16s for assaults on the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. They
have been used in attacks on Rafah and the Palestinian securty compound in
Nablus, killing civilians.

Government sources admitted the issue was 'delicate' and that rules on sales to
embargoed countries via third countries were vague. One said the charge of
hypocrisy would be 'difficult to head off'.

'We look at these things on a case-by-case basis,' said one senior Downing Street
official. 'We have to make it clear we will only sell to countries where there are
effective procedures for controlling which countries the equipment is sold on to.'

The deal will again focus attention on the Government's attitude to military sales
abroad and raise the possibility that any arms embargo can be bypassed by selling to
a third country.

The Government was condemned this year when it was revealed it was backing a
£28 million military air traffic control system for Tanzania despite claims the country
did not need and could not afford such a high-tech system.

The Ministry of Defence has been pushing for the Israel deal to go through, despite
opposition from Patricia Hewitt, the Trade and Industry Secretary. She is worried
about the negative message such a deal sends to Arab supporters and the rest of
the European Union.

However, Hewitt will now back the deal as long as the rules on future contracts to
third countries are clear. Britain is to provide sophisticated navigation and targeting
equipment for the F16s, which are being built in America for Israel.

The 'head-up displays' allow pilots to see positional and weapons information
displayed in front of each eye without having to look at separate dials. It is sold as
allowing pilots to fly with fewer distractions and increasing the accuracy of bombing
raids.

The MoD admitted the contract was part of a wooing exercise to get US military
business. Britain and the US are already planning a £100 billion joint strike fighter
project.

'We have to get as much of that business as possible and we cannot be prescriptive
on what we will and won't sell them,' said one MoD source. 'The British defence
industry employs tens of thousands of people. We have to show we are a reliable
supplier of high-tech defence equipment.'

The Foreign Office has already officially warned Israel about using British equipment
to target the Occupied Territories.

In May, Foreign Secretary Jack Straw demanded an explanation from Sharon's
government about the use of British military equipment in tanks and attack
helicopters. Straw was furious that their use had come to light despite a written
pledge from Israel in November 2000 that said 'no UK-originated equipment . . . is
used as part of the defence force's activities in the territories'.

Campaigners against the new Israeli arms deal will point to guidelines published by
the Government in 1997. They said that departments 'will not issue an export licence
if there is a clearly identifiable risk that the intended recipient would use the 
proposed
export aggressively against another country'.

Although the Palestinian Authority areas are not officially a country, Blair has said
that he supports a separate Palestinian state.

Guardian Unlimited © Guardian Newspapers Limited 2002
End{{{

~~~

Forwarded as information only; no automatic endorsement
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

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Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe
simply because it has been handed down for many generations. Do not
believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do
not believe in anything simply because it is written in Holy Scriptures. Do not
believe in anything merely on the authority of Teachers, elders or wise men.
Believe only after careful observation and

[CTRL] Louis Shows He's Got a Lot of what the Georges Ain't


-Caveat Lector-

From http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/tallahassee/news/politics/3612103.htm

Of course, them Tejaninos confuse spyin'  with spine

}}}Begin
Posted on Sat, Jul. 06, 2002

Louis Farrakhan in Iraq

Associated Press

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan arrived in Baghdad for a
two-day visit
Saturday to discuss steps that could be taken to avert a possible U.S. military
campaign against Iraq.

Our purpose here is to see the people of Iraq, hopefully the leadership, and to see
what we can do to possibly stop a war, Farrakhan told reporters on his arrival in
Baghdad. Farrakhan opposes U.N. sanctions against Iraq.

Farrakhan, whose Nation of Islam is based in Chicago, has already been to Qatar,
Yemen and Lebanon as part of a Middle East tour.

A frequent visitor to the Middle East, Farrakhan's views on race relations in the
United States and Jews have made him a source of concern to U.S. authorities.

The U.N. Security Council and the United States accuse Iraq of trying to rebuild its
banned weapons programs and of supporting terrorism. The world body has failed to
persuade Iraq in talks held in Vienna to allow the return of U.N. weapons inspectors.

The United States has warned Saddam he faces unspecified consequences if he
does not allow the return of the inspectors, who left ahead of 1998 allied airstrikes
launched to punish Iraq for blocking inspections.

Iraq has been under U.N. sanctions since it invaded Kuwait in 1990. The sanctions
can be lifted only when inspectors certify that Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological
weapons have been destroyed, along with the long-range missiles that could deliver
them.







© 2001 tallahassee and wire service sources. All Rights Reserved.



http://www.tallahassee.com
End{{{

~~~

Forwarded as information only; no automatic endorsement
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material
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Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe
simply because it has been handed down for many generations. Do not
believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do
not believe in anything simply because it is written in Holy Scriptures. Do not
believe in anything merely on the authority of Teachers, elders or wise men.
Believe only after careful observation and analysis, when you find that it
agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all.
Then accept it and live up to it.
The Buddha on Belief, from the Kalama Sutta
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will
teach you to keep your mouth shut.
--- Ernest Hemingway

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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Jerusalem Post Editorial: No 'isolated incident'


-Caveat Lector-

It's more than just ticket sales.

The govt. needs people to think of terrorists as organized with a clear
chain of command, so they can accept a ridiculous concept like war on
terror (as if you could fight a technique - it's like saying 'war on
sautéing'). All the troops and homeland security and removal of freedoms and
billions of military expenditure very clearly make no sense, if a terrorist
can work alone, with no planning, no Osama pulling the strings, and no
targets after the fact.

Just causing terror apparently is no longer the definition of terrorist -
you have to be a target an army can aim at, you have to be able to advance
America's dive to the right.

on 7/7/02 11:56 AM, Tenorlove at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Why the reluctance on the part of some in the US to acknowledge that
 this was clearly a terrorist attack on American soil?

 Because it will hurt airline ticket sales. Follow the money. Unless
 someone beats me to it, I can check to see how much interlocking there
 is among the boards of directors for the airline companies and the
 mainstream media.

-- -- -- -- - -- - -- -- - -  - - -- --- -- - - -  - -- - - - --
 -- - -- -
The police aren't here to create disorder, they are here to preserve
disorder.


Mayor Richard Daley




NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

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==
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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Uri Avnery: Israel - A Maddened Cow

Title: Re: [CTRL] Uri Avnery: Israel - A Maddened Cow
-Caveat Lector-

That is such bullshit. I know many Israelis, and NONE of them feel that way. What they want is a country where jews can run from being slaughtered, and not turned away but there are people of every ethnicity and religion in Israel, and most Israelis like it that way.

on 7/7/02 11:13 AM, William Shannon at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

For a simple reason: the one thing that unifies almost all Jewish Israelis is the wish to live in a state where there are only Jews.

Wandering in a vast forest at night, I have only a faint light to guide me. A stranger appears and says to me: ' My friend, you should blow out your candle in order to find your way more clearly.' This stranger is a theologian.

Diderot c. 1762

NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

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Re: [CTRL] Way OT


-Caveat Lector-

I concur with Bill's assessment.  Keep the infighting off list.  AER

On 7 Jul 2002 at 9:47, William Shannon wrote:

 -Caveat Lector-

 In a message dated 7/7/02 12:16:21 AM Central Daylight Time,
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


  But sometimes I miss saba.

 She ought to be reinstated...she has alot to offer and she does so in
 a very entertaining style. She is an invaluable resource and we were
 lucky to have her on this list. June ought to be reinstated too to
 provide balance. If we can keep the catfighting to a minimum (though I
 kinda' enjoy it) I think it's time for parole.

 Bill.

 Bill.

 A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A
 DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
 ==
 CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing
 propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!
 These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many
 half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically
 by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the
 spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no
 endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
 be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial
 and nazi's need not apply.

 Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
 ==
 == Archives Available at:
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From

}}}Begin

End{{{

~~~

Forwarded as information only; no automatic endorsement
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material
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expressed a prior interest in receiving this type of information
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+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe
simply because it has been handed down for many generations. Do not
believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do
not believe in anything simply because it is written in Holy Scriptures. Do not
believe in anything merely on the authority of Teachers, elders or wise men.
Believe only after careful observation and analysis, when you find that it
agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all.
Then accept it and live up to it.
The Buddha on Belief, from the Kalama Sutta
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will
teach you to keep your mouth shut.
--- Ernest Hemingway

A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Hatfield: Poltergeist?


-Caveat Lector-

From http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/07/opinion/07KRUG.html


Again, Hatfield discussed all of this in depth in *Fortunate Son* way back in
1999/2000.  This was the book that St Martin's decided not to publish.  

}}}Begin
July 7, 2002

Succeeding in Business

By PAUL KRUGMAN

On Tuesday, George W. Bush is scheduled to give a speech intended to put him in
front of the growing national outrage over corporate malfeasance. He will sternly
lecture Wall Street executives about ethics and will doubtless portray himself as a
believer in old- fashioned business probity.

Yet this pose is surreal, given the way top officials like Secretary of the Army Thomas
White, Dick Cheney and Mr. Bush himself acquired their wealth. As Joshua Green
says in The Washington Monthly, in a must-read article written just before the
administration suddenly became such an exponent of corporate ethics: The `new
tone' that George W. Bush brought to Washington isn't one of integrity, but of
permissiveness. . . . In this administration, enriching oneself while one's business
goes bust isn't necessarily frowned upon.

Unfortunately, the administration has so far gotten the press to focus on the least
important question about Mr. Bush's business dealings: his failure to obey the law by
promptly reporting his insider stock sales. It's true that Mr. Bush's story about that
failure has suddenly changed, from the dog ate my homework to my lawyer ate my
homework  four times. But the administration hopes that a narrow focus on the
reporting lapses will divert attention from the larger point: Mr. Bush profited
personally from aggressive accounting identical to the recent scams that have
shocked the nation.

In 1986, one would have had to consider Mr. Bush a failed businessman. He had run
through millions of dollars of other people's money, with nothing to show for it but a
company losing money and heavily burdened with debt. But he was rescued from
failure when Harken Energy bought his company at an astonishingly high price.
There is no question that Harken was basically paying for Mr. Bush's connections.

Despite these connections, Harken did badly. But for a time it concealed its failure 
sustaining its stock price, as it turned out, just long enough for Mr. Bush to sell 
most
of his stake at a large profit  with an accounting trick identical to one of the main
ploys used by Enron a decade later. (Yes, Arthur Andersen was the accountant.) As I
explained in my previous column, the ploy works as follows: corporate insiders create
a front organization that seems independent but is really under their control. This
front buys some of the firm's assets at unrealistically high prices, creating a phantom
profit that inflates the stock price, allowing the executives to cash in their stock.

That's exactly what happened at Harken. A group of insiders, using money borrowed
from Harken itself, paid an exorbitant price for a Harken subsidiary, Aloha Petroleum.
That created a $10 million phantom profit, which hid three-quarters of the company's
losses in 1989. White House aides have played down the significance of this
maneuver, saying $10 million isn't much, compared with recent scandals. Indeed, it's
a small fraction of the apparent profits Halliburton created through a sudden change
in accounting procedures during Dick Cheney's tenure as chief executive. But for
Harken's stock price  and hence for Mr. Bush's personal wealth  this accounting
trickery made all the difference.

Oh, and Harken's fake profits were several dozen times as large as the Whitewater
land deal  though only about one-seventh the cost of the Whitewater investigation.

Mr. Bush was on the company's audit committee, as well as on a special
restructuring committee; back in 1994, another member of both committees, E.
Stuart Watson, assured reporters that he and Mr. Bush were constantly made aware
of the company's finances. If Mr. Bush didn't know about the Aloha maneuver, he
was a very negligent director.

In any case, Mr. Bush certainly found out what his company had been up to when the
Securities and Exchange Commission ordered it to restate its earnings. So he can't
really be shocked over recent corporate scams. His own company pulled exactly the
same tricks, to his considerable benefit. Of course, what really made Mr. Bush a rich
man was the investment of his proceeds from Harken in the Texas Rangers  a
step that is another, equally strange story.

The point is the contrast between image and reality. Mr. Bush portrays himself as a
regular guy, someone ordinary Americans can identify with. But his personal fortune
was built on privilege and insider dealings  and after his Harken sale, on large-
scale corporate welfare. Some people have it easy.


Copyright 2002 The New York Times Company | Permissions | Privacy Policy
End{{{

~~~

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In

Re: [CTRL] Way OT

Title: Re: [CTRL] Way OT
-Caveat Lector-



on 7/7/02 11:08 AM, RevCOAL at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

-Caveat Lector- 
From: William Shannon 
But sometimes I miss saba.

She ought to be reinstated...she has alot to offer Puh-leeze! :-( The only thing 'she' ever had to offer is unsubtantiated inanities... I'm still waiting for proof of 'her' so-called Bible Code via a prediction BEFORE the fact... 


yeah  but it is SO rare to see that kind of delusional paranoia so full blown and on display. I found it fascinating.



and she does so in a very entertaining style. Whatever 'entertainment' 'she' provides is extremely thin and short-lived... 
She is an invaluable resource PUH-LEEZE! Resource of what? Study material for a case of rampant insanity? 

exactly. I showed more than a few people some of her posts, just to watch their head shaking incredulity.



and we were lucky to have her on this list. We were never lucky to have 'her' on the list. We are lucky 'she' is gone... 
June ought to be reinstated too to provide balance. I can't speak for the list-status of Colleen/Saba, but I was never banned, so I don't need to be reinstated. I've just been really busy of late, and haven't felt the need to respond to recent postings to the list...


June




 
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Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate
William of Occam


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[CTRL] Data Day Snooping - Minority Report - Our Future

-Caveat Lector-

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/dynamic/news/top_story.html?in_review_id=630679in_review_text_id=600719

Data day snooping

by Jamie Walters, Metro

Imagine a crime-free world where privacy doesn't exist; where governments
and advertisers know everything about everyone. This is the world 50 years
from now, according to Steven Spielberg's new film, Minority Report, where
people are willing to pass on masses of personal information in return for a
crime-free society.

It is fiction, yet the way we currently use and are used by technology has
led civil rights campaigners to say that, with the exception of psychics
detecting crimes before they're committed, many of the threats depicted in
the film are already with us. Consider your own daily routine and see how
much personal information you already give away.

9am: Walk to work

In London it is estimated a different CCTV camera will pick you up every
30sec. The entire journey to work will effectively be filmed across a
network of cameras, of which there are 2.5million in Britain alone. Not only
are these being used by the authorities, most large companies in the UK
employ them as well. This data is regularly misused on the Internet and by
salacious TV shows.

11am: Send or receive an e-mail

This will not only be monitored by your ISP; whether at work or home, the
message can also be seen by whoever runs your mail server and your
recipient's. And that's just the content of the message; the logs of whom
you are sending to and receiving from will be kept automatically by the ISP.
Despite the Home Secretary's recent climbdown over e-mail snooping, these
logs are still available to numerous government agencies.

2pm: Buy lunch using a loyalty card

Supermarkets use loyalty cards to develop a profile of your buying habits
and can link this to an address, e-mail and phone number. This information
is also misused. In the US, a supermarket called Von's was sued by a
customer, Robert Rivera, who'd broken his ankle after slipping in the store.
Von's obtained evidence that Rivera may have been drunk at the time from a
loyalty card showing regular alcohol purchases. He lost the case.

5.30pm: Phone home on a mobile

Mobile phones act like radio transmitters and receivers and, when turned on,
the phone company can pinpoint its location to within about 40m in a city.
With 3G phones this will come down to 10m, something that is getting
advertisers excited. Firms will soon be able to pay phone companies to send
text messages telling people to visit their store just as they walk past it.

7.30pm: Surf the Internet from home

All Web browsing records are stored by your ISP and, under current
proposals, will be kept for seven years. While these are only available to
government agencies, private companies have their own ways of tracking our
Web use. For instance, US firm Double Click has been making records of
access to a large number of sites. They built a huge database of people's
Web habits so their clients can target their Web adverts at specific
individuals.

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[CTRL] America's Domestic Spying Renaissance


-Caveat Lector-

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/jun2002/tc20020627_3227.htm

JUNE 28, 2002

SECURITY FOCUS
By Mark Rasch

America's Domestic Spying Renaissance

John Ashcroft's decision to unshackle the FBI's domestic surveillance powers
seem perfectly reasonable... if you forget why the bureau was shackled in
the first place

Earlier this month, Attorney General Ashcroft announced that he was
essentially removing the shackles from the FBI, and permitting agents to
engage in surveillance -- including certain Internet surveillance -- of
political, social or ethnic groups, without either probable cause or
reasonable suspicion that any of these groups had been or were likely to be
engaged in any form of criminal activity.

In detailing the changes, FBI Director Mueller explained the FBI guidelines
that have previously precluded such conduct applied only to the FBI and not
other law enforcement agencies, had no basis in Fourth Amendment or other
privacy jurisprudence, were voluntary, and were significantly hampering the
ability of FBI agents to gather basic intelligence of the sort that could be
gathered by any eleven-year-old with a desktop PC. In this day of terrorism,
Ashcroft and Mueller hypothesized, law enforcement must be unshackled to
prevent all sorts of criminal activities, and fear not, ye defenders of
liberty, for the FBI will continue to monitor itself, and keep itself in
check.

The old FBI guidelines emerged in the wake of Watergate-era revelations that
the bureau had engaged in extensive surveillance of political and religious
groups for unlawful purposes. In 1976 then-attorney general Edward Levi
imposed a series of voluntary restrictions on the authority of the FBI to
engage in surveillance of domestic political groups. Under programs like the
FBI's COINTELPRO, the bureau had not only engaged in surveillance of
political groups -- agents attended political rallies and maintained
dossiers on leaders like Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr. -- but they went
beyond this and actively disrupting the lives and careers of those it
considered to be disloyal to America.

What is important to note is that these activities were all done without any
reason to believe that any of these groups or individuals were engaged in
any activity that violated any law.

The Levi guidelines -- voluntary only in the sense that they were imposed
before Congress could make them mandatory -- stated that investigations of
political and religious organizations could be brought only where specific
and articulable facts indicated criminal activity, and even then, required
reporting directly to the Attorney General -- not simply the FBI director.
The guidelines were successively weakened by attorneys general Smith and
Thornburgh in the Reagan Administration, to permit preliminary
investigations of such groups if there was a reasonable indication of
criminal activity.

WEB OF SPIES. With the explosive growth of the Internet, particularly during
the Clinton administration, privacy advocates and others (particularly those
old enough to remember the COINTELPRO program) were naturally concerned
about the FBI's role in monitoring the Internet.

It is important to distinguish various kinds of monitoring and types of
information contained on the Web. At one end of the privacy spectrum are
private or personal communications, like e-mail. The interception of such
communications requires either a Title III wiretap (which demands a high
level of proof to a court that criminal activity is ongoing) or a wiretap
order under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA), which
similarly requires a court order from a special intelligence court, but does
not require a showing of criminal activity. For the most part, discussions
related to Carnivore and Magic Lantern focuses on this type of
information.

The new guidelines should have little effect on this type of surveillance,
since the FBI must at least initiate an investigation and make some showing
of probable cause before engaging in this type of spying.

It's the other end of the spectrum where the new guidelines come into play.
This is the public Internet -- publicly available Web sites, message
boards, Web logs and other information that is accessible to anyone online.

The real question is whether the FBI should be permitted to gather
intelligence, do profile analysis, and research on information that is
publicly available to us all, without having to show that it is doing so for
the purpose of investigating some specific criminal activity.

CHILLING EFFECTS. FBI director Mueller correctly points out that the
information the bureau will now gather is, essentially, public information.
Sure, the FBI could follow me through the streets and ascertain that I went
to a meeting of the local chapter of the Chamber of Commerce, or the
Libertarian Party, or an EPIC film opening, but these activities occur in
either a public or semi-public space.

But this is a red herring. The

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