-Caveat Lector- Remember:More people have died in Ted Kennedy's car than have died in United States Commercial Nuclear Power plant operations
visit my web site at http://www.info-quest.org My ICQ# is 79071904 See the Pledge of alleginace to the flag that the 9th circuit court of appeals doesn't want you to say. for a precise list of the powers of the Federal Government linkto: http://www.info-quest.org/Enumerated.html ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 07:13:49 -0000 From: savefreedom2003 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [JBirch] STATE DEPARTMENT PUBLICATION 7277 - FREEDOM FROM WAR Read STATE DEPARTMENT PUBLICATION 7277 - FREEDOM FROM WAR: The United States' Program For General And Complete Disarmament In A Peaceful World Visit: http://dosfan.lib.uic.edu/ERC/arms/freedom_war.html THIS DATES BACK TO 1961 If you want to "cut to the chase" just read the last page. At the end, you will find this blunt summary: "In Stage III progressive controlled disarmament and continuously developing principles and procedures of international law would proceed to a point where no state would have the military power to challenge the progressively strengthened U.N. Peace Force and all international disputes would be settled according to the agreed principles of international conduct." You will find the complete discussion of "weapons of mass destruction". Can we live by the rules that we are enforcing? Who has the most weapons of mass destruction in the world by far? Who has the Nuclear weapons? Who has the 15,000 pound daisy cutters? United Nations inspectors will be monitoring our elections in Nov. 2004 We fought this war to turn Iraq over to the United Nations. We are angry because terrorists did damage in our country. Our national pride was hurt. We swore to obtain justice, or maybe even vengence. We went to war because we say that Saddam has weapons of mass destruction. But, who has THE MOST weapons of mass destruction? Which is the only country that has ever dropped a nuclear bomb on a civilian population? After we EMPOWER THE UNITED NATIONS, in the name of opposing weapons of mass destruction, then how will we refuse to live by the rules that we demanded? Over and over again, we have let our leaders drop bombs on other countries, and we called this "patriotism". Now there are people all over the world, who want to do the same thing to us, and we call this "terrorism". Now our leaders tell us that to stop "terrorism", we must drop more bombs. How will this cycle end? Bombing other countries; which have not invaded us, is not defense. That is aggression. This is all about EMPOWERING THE UNITED NATIONS. Our leaders are United Nations puppets, who have no intention of saving this country from the United Nations. New World Order "one worlder" stooges have run our government for generations. Read Department of State Publication 7277; which has been in effect since September of 1961 visit: http://www.mikenew.com/pub7277.html OR http://members.tripod.com/~Bill_Fisher/jbsapr91.html OR http://feralnews.com/issues/jfk/US_Dept_of_State_Publication_7277.html The Full text follows: Department of State Publication 7277 THE UNITED STATES PROGRAM FOR GENERAL AND COMPLETE DISARMAMENT IN A PEACEFUL WORLD DEPARTMENT OF STATE DEPARTMENT OF STATE PUBLICATION 7277 Disarmament Series 5 Released September 1961 Office of Public Services BUREAU OF PUBLIC AFFAIRS For sale by the Superintendent ot Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office, Washington 25, D.C. - Price 15 cents INTRODUCTION The revolutionary development of modern weapons within a world divided by serious ideological differences has produced a crisis in human history. In order to overcome the danger of nuclear war now confronting mankind, the United States has introduced, at the Sixteenth General Assembly of the United Nations, a Program for General and Complete Disarmament in a Peaceful World. This new program provides for the progressive reduction of the war- making capabilities of nations and the simultaneous strengthening of international institutions to settle disputes and maintain the peace. It sets forth a series of comprehensive measures which can and should be taken in order to bring about a world in which there will be freedom from war and security for all states. It is based on three principles deemed essential to the achievement of practical progress in the disarmament field: First, there must be immediate disarmament action: A strenuous and uninterrupted effort must be made toward the goal of general and complete disarmament; at the same time, it is important that specific measures be put into effect as soon as possible. Second, all disarmament obligations must be subject to effective international controls: The control organization must have the manpower, facilities, and effectiveness to assure that limitations or reductions take place as agreed. It must also be able to certify to all states that retained forces and armaments do not exceed those permitted at any stage of the disarmament process. Third, adequate peace-keeping machinery must be established: There is an inseparable relationship between the scaling down of national armaments on the one hand and the building up of international peace-keeping machinery and institutions on the other. Nations are unlikely to shed their means of self-protection in the absence of alternative ways to safeguard their legitimate interests. This can only be achieved through the progressive strengthening of international institutions under the United Nations and by creating a United Nations Peace Force to enforce the peace as the disarmament process proceeds. There follows a summary of the principal provisions of the United States Program for General and Complete Disarmament in a Peaceful World. The full text of the program is contained in an appendix to this pamphlet. FREEDOM FROM WAR THE UNITED STATES PROGRAM FOR GENERAL AND COMPLETE DISARMAMENT IN A PEACEFUL WORLD SUMMARY DISARMAMENT GOAL AND OBJECTIVES The overall goal of the United States is a free, secure, and peaceful world of independent states adhering to common standards of justice and international conduct and subjecting the use of force to the rule of law; a world which has achieved general and complete disarmament under effective international control; and a world in which adjustment to change takes place in accordance with the principles of the United Nations. In order to make possible the achievement of that goal, the program sets forth the following specific objectives toward which nations should direct their efforts: -The disbanding of all national armed forces and the prohibition of their reestablishment in any form whatsoever other than those required to preserve internal order and for contributions to a United Nations Peace Force; -The elimination from national arsenals of all armaments, including all weapons of mass destruction and the means for their delivery, other than those required for a United Nations Peace Force and for maintaining internal order; -The institution of effective means for the enforcement of international agreements, for the settlement of disputes, and for the maintenance of peace in accordance with the principles of the United Nations; -The establishment and effective operation of an International Disarmament Organization within the framework of the United Nations to insure compliance at all times with all disarmament obligations. TASKS OF NEGOTIATING STATES The negotiating states are called upon to develop the program into a detailed plan for general and complete disarmament and to continue their efforts without interruption until the whole program has been achieved. To this end, they are to seek the widest possible area of agreement at the earliest possible date. At the same time, and without prejudice to progress on the disarmament program, they are to seek agreement on those immediate measures that would contribute to the common security of nations and that could facilitate and form part of the total program. GOVERNING PRINCIPLES The program sets forth a series of general principles to guide the negotiating states in their work. These make clear that: -As states relinquish their arms, the United Nations must be progressively strengthened in order to improve its capacity to assure international security and the peaceful settlement of disputes; -Disarmament must proceed as rapidly as possible, until it is completed, in stages containing balanced, phased, and safeguarded measures; -Each measure and stage should be carried out in an agreed period of time, with transition from one stage to the next to take place as soon as all measures in the preceding stage have been carried out and verified and as soon as necessary arrangements for verification of the next stage have been made; -Inspection and verification must establish both that nations carry out scheduled limitations or reductions and that they do not retain armed forces and armaments in excess of those permitted at any stage of the disarmament process; and -Disarmament must take place in a manner that will not affect adversely the security of any state. DISARMAMENT STAGES The program provides for progressive disarmament steps to take place in three stages and for the simultaneous strengthening of international institutions. FIRST STAGE The first stage contains measures which would significantly reduce the capabilities of nations to wage aggressive war. Implementation of this stage would mean that: * The nuclear threat would be reduced: All states would have adhered to a treaty effectively prohibiting the testing of nuclear weapons. The production of fissionable materials for use in weapons would be stopped and quantities of such materials from past production would be converted to non- weapons uses. States owning nuclear weapons would not relinquish control of such weapons to any nation not owning them and would not transmit to any such nation information or material necessary for their manufacture. States not owning nuclear weapons would not manufacture them or attempt to obtain control of such weapons belonging to other states. A Commission of Experts would be established to report on the feasibility and means for the verified reduction and eventual elimination of nuclear weapons stockpiles. * Strategic delivery vehicles would be reduced: Strategic nuclear weapons delivery vehicles of specified categories and weapons designed to counter such vehicles would be reduced to agreed levels by equitable and balanced steps; their production would be discontinued or limited; their testing would be limited or halted. * Arms and armed forces would be reduced: The armed forces of the United States and the Soviet Union would be limited to 2.I million men each (with appropriate levels not exceeding that amount for other militarily significant states); levels of armaments would be correspondingly reduced and their production would be limited. An Experts Commission would be established to examine and report on the feasibility and means of accomplishing verifiable reduction and eventual elimination of all chemical, biological and radiological weapons. * Peaceful use of outer space would be promoted: The placing in orbit or stationing in outer space of weapons capable of producing mass destruction would be prohibited. States would give advance notification of space vehicle and missile launchings. * U.N. peace-keeping powers would be strengthened: Measures would be taken to develop and strengthen United Nations arrangementS for arbitration, for the development of international law, and for the establishment in Stage II of a permanent U.N. Peace Force. * An International Disarmament Organization would be established for effective verification of the disarmament program: Its functions would be expanded progressively as disarmament proceeds. It would certify to all states that agreed reductions have taken place and that retained forces and armaments do not exceed permitted levels. It would determine the transition from one stage to the next. * States would be committed to other measures to reduce international tension and to protect against the chance of war by accident, miscalculation, or surprise attack: States would be committed to refrain from the threat or use of any type of armed force contrary to the principles of the U.N. Charter and to refrain from indirect aggression and subversion against any country. A U.N. peace observation group would be available to investigate any situation which might constitute a threat to or breach of the peace. States would be committed to give advance notice of major military movements which might cause alarm; observation posts would be established to report on concentrations and movements of military forces. SECOND STAGE The second stage contains a series of measures which would bring within sight a world in which there would be freedom from war. Implementation of all measures in the second stage would mean: -Further substantial reductions in the armed forces, armaments, and military establishments of states, including strategic nuclear weapons delivery vehicles and countering weapons; -Further development of methods for the peaceful settlement of disputes under the United Nations; -Establishment of a permanent international peace force within the United Nations; -Depending on the findings of an Experts Commission, a halt in the production of chemical, bacteriological and radiological weapons and a reduction of existing stocks or their conversion to peaceful uses; -On the basis of the findings of an Experts Commission, a reduction of stocks of nuclear weapons; -The dismantling or the conversion to peaceful uses of certain military bases and facilities wherever located; and -The strengthening and enlargement of the International Disarmament Organization to enable it to verify the steps taken in Stage II and to determine the transition to Stage III. THIRD STAGE During the third stage of the program, the states of the world, building on the experience and confidence gained in successfully implementing the measures of the first two stages, would take final steps toward the goal of a world in which: -States would retain only those forces, non-nuclear armaments, and establishments required for the purpose of maintaining internal order; they would also support and provide agreed manpower for a U.N. Peace Force. -The U.N. Peace Force, equipped with agreed types and quantities of armaments, would be fully functioning. -The manufacture of armaments would be prohibited except for those of agreed types and quantities to be used by the U.N. Peace Force and those required to maintain internal order. All other armaments would be destroyed or converted to peaceful purposes. -The peace-keeping capabilities of the United Nations would be sufficiently strong and the obligations of all states under such arrangements sufficiently far-reaching as to assure peace and the just settlement of differences in a disarmed world. APPENDIX DECLARATION ON DISARMAMENT THE UNITED STATES PROGRAM FOR GENERAL AND COMPLETE DISARMAMENT IN A PEACEFUL WORLD The Nations of the world, Conscious of the crisis in human history produced by the revolutionary development of modern weapons within a world divided by serious ideological differences; Determined to save present and succeeding generations from the scourge of war and the dangers and burdens of the arms race and to create conditions in which all peoples can strive freely and peacefully to fulfill their basic aspirations; Declare their goal to be: A free, secure, and peaceful world of independent states adhering to common standards of justice and international conduct and subjecting the use of force to the rule of law; a world where adjustment to change takes place in accordance with the principles of the United Nations; a world where there shall be a permanent state of general and complete disarmament under effective international control and where the resources of nations shall be devoted to man's material, cultural, and spiritual advance; 1-The disbanding of all national armed forces and the prohibition of their reestablishment in any form whatsoever other than those required to preserve internal order and for contributions to a United Nations Peace Force; 2-The elimination from national arsenals of all armaments, including all weapons of mass destruction and the means for their delivery, other than those required for a United Nations Peace Force and for maintaining internal order; 3-The establishment and effective operation of an International Disarmament Organization within the framework of the United Nations to ensure compliance at all times with all disarmament obligations; 4-The institution of effective means for the enforcement of international agreements, for the settlement of disputes, and for the maintenance of peace in accordance with the principles of the United Nations. Call on the negotiating states: 1-To develop the outline program set forth below into an agreed plan for general and complete disarmament and to continue their efforts without interruption until the whole program has been achieved; 2-To this end to seek to attain the widest possible area of agreement at the earliest possible date; 3-Also to seek - without prejudice to progress on the disarmament program - agreement on those immediate measures that would contribute to the common security of nations and that could facilitate and form a part of that program. Affirm that disarmament negotiations should be guided by the following principles: 1-Disarmament shall take place as rapidly as possible until it is completed in stages containing balanced, phased and safeguarded measures, with each measure and stage to be carried out in an agreed period of time. 2-Compliance with all disarmament obligations shall be effectively verified from their entry into force. Verification arrangements shall be instituted progressively and in such a manner as to verify not only that agreed limitations or reductions take place but also that retained armed forces and armaments do not exceed agreed levels at any stage. 3-Disarmament shall take place in a manner that will not affect adversely the security of any state, whether or not a party to an international agreement or treaty. 4-As states relinquish their arms, the United Nations shall be progressively strengthened in order to improve its capacity to assure international security and the peaceful settlement of differences as well as to facilitate the development of international cooperation in common tasks for the benefit of mankind. 5-Transition from one stage of disarmament to the next shall take place as soon as all the measures in the preceding stage have been carried out and effective verification is continuing and as soon as the arrangements that have been agreed to be necessary for the next stage have been instituted. Agree upon the following outline program for achieving general and complete disarmament: STAGE I A. To Establish an International Disarmament Organization: (a) An International Disarmament Organization (IDO) shall be established within the framework of the United Nations upon entry into force of the agreement. Its functions shall be expanded progressively as required for the effective verification of the disarmament program. (b) The IDO shall have: a General Conference of all the parties; a Commission consisting of representatives of all the major powers as permanent members and certain other states on a rotating basis; and an Administrator who will administer the Organization subject to the direction of the Commission and who will have the authority, staff, and finances adequate to assure effective impartial implementation of the functions of the Organization. (c) The IDO shall: ensure compliance with the obligations undertaken by verifying the execution of measures agreed upon; assist the states in developing the details of agreed further verification and disarmament measures; provide for the establishment of such bodies as may be necessary for working out the details of further measures provided for in the program and for such other expert study groups as may be required to give continuous study to the problems of disarmament; receive reports on the progress of disarmament and verification arrangements and determine the transition from one stage to the next. B. To Reduce Armed Forces and Armaments: (a) Force levels shall be limited to 2.I million each for the U.S. and U.S.S.R. and to appropriate levels not exceeding 2.1 million each for all other militarily significant states. Reductions to the agreed levels will proceed by equitable, proportionate, and verified steps. (b) Levels of armaments of prescribed types shall be reduced by equitable and balanced steps. The reductions shall be accomplished by transfers of armaments to depots supervised by the IDO. When, at specified periods during the Stage I reduction process, the states party to the agreement have agreed that the armaments and armed forces are at prescribed levels, the armaments in depots shall be destroyed or converted to peaceful uses. (c) The production of agreed types of armaments shall be limited. (d) A Chemical, Biological, Radiological (CBR) Experts Commission shall be established within the IDO for the purpose of examining and reporting on the feasibility and means for accomplishing the verifiable reduction and eventual elimination of CBR weapons stockpiles and the halting of their production. C. To Contain and Reduce the Nuclear Threat: (a) States that have not acceded to a treaty effectively prohibiting the testing of nuclear weapons shall do so. (b) The production of fissionable materials for use in weapons shall be stopped. (c) Upon the cessation of production of fissionable materials for use in weapons, agreed initial quantities of fissionable materials from past production shall be transferred to non-weapons purposes. (d) Any fissionable materials transferred between countries for peaceful uses of nuclear energy shall be subject to appropriate safeguards to be developed in agreement with the IAEA. (e) States owning nuclear weapons shall not relinquish control of such weapons to any nation not owning them and shall not transmit to any such nation information or material necessary for their manufacture. States not owning nuclear weapons shall not manufacture such weapons, attempt to obtain control of such weapons belonging to other states, or seek or receive information or materials necessary for their manufacture. (f) A Nuclear Experts Commission consisting of representatives of the nuclear states shall be established within the IDO for the purpose of examining and reporting on the feasibility and means for accomplishing the verified reduction and eventual elimination of nuclear weapons stockpiles. D. To Reduce Strategic Nuclear Weapons Delivery Vehicles: (a) Strategic nuclear weapons delivery vehicles in specified categories and agreed types of weapons designed to counter such vehicles shall be reduced to agreed levels by equitable and balanced steps. The reduction shall be accomplished in each step by transfers to depots supervised by the IDO of vehicles that are in excess of levels agreed upon for each step. At specified periods during the Stage I reduction process, the vehicles that have been placed under supervision of the IDO shall be destroyed or converted to peaceful uses. (b) Production of agreed categories of strategic nuclear weapons delivery vehicles and agreed types of weapons designed to counter such vehicles shall be discontinued or limited. (c) Testing of agreed categories of strategic nuclear weapons delivery vehicles and agreed types of weapons designed to counter such vehicles shall be limited or halted. E. To Promote the Peaceful Use of Outer Space: (a) The placing into orbit or stationing in outer space of weapons capable c,f producing mass destruction shall be prohibited. (b) States shall give advance notification to participating states and to the IDO of launchings of space vehicles and missiles, together with the track of the vehicle. F. To Reduce the Risks of War by Accident, Miscalculation, and Surprise Attack: (a) States shall give advance notification to the participating states and to the IDO of major military movements and maneuvers, on a scale as may be agreed, which might give rise to misinterpretation or cause alarm and induce countermeasures. The notification shall include the geographic areas to be used and the nature, scale and time span of the event. (b) There shall be established observation posts at such locations as major ports, railway centers, motor highways, and air bases to report on concentrations and movements of military forces. (c) There shall also be established such additional inspection arrangements to reduce the danger of surprise attack as may be agreed. (d) An international commission shall be established immediately within the IDO to examine and make recommendations on the possibility of further measures to reduce the risks of nuclear war by accident, miscalculation, or failure of communication. G. To Keep the Peace: (a)States shall reaffirm their obligations under the U.N. Charter to refrain from the threat or use of any type of armed force including nuclear, conventional, or CBR - contrary to the principles of the U.N. Charter. (b) States shall agree to refrain from indirect aggression and subversion against any country. (c) States shall use all appropriate processes for the peaceful settlement of disputes and shall seek within the United Nations further arrangements for the peaceful settlement of international disputes and for the codification and progressive development of international law. (d) States shall develop arrangements in Stage I for the establishment in Stage II of a U.N. Peace Force. (e) A U.N. peace observation group shall be staffed with a standing cadre of observers who could be dispatched to investigate any situation which might constitute a threat to or breach of the peace STAGE II A. International Disarmament Organization: The powers and responsibilities of the IDO shall be progressively enlarged in order to give it the capabilities to verify the measures undertaken in Stage II. B. To Further Reduce Armed Forces and Armaments: (a) Levels of forces for the U.S., U.S.S.R., and other militarily significant states shall be further reduced by substantial amounts to agreed levels in equitable and balanced steps. (b) Levels of armaments of prescribed types shall be further reduced by equitable and balanced steps. The reduction shall be accomplished by transfers of armaments to depots supervised by the IDO. When, at specified periods during the Stage II reduction process, the parties have agreed that the armaments and armed forces are at prescribed levels, the armaments in depots shall be destroyed or converted to peaceful uses. (c) There shall be further agreed restrictions on the production of armaments. (d) Agreed military bases and facilities wherever they are located shall be dismantled or converted to peaceful uses. (e) Depending upon the findings of the Experts Commission on CBR weapons, the production of CBR weapons shall be halted, existing stocks progressively reduced, and the resulting excess quantities destroyed or converted to peaceful uses. C. To Further Reduce the Nuclear Threat: Stocks of nuclear weapons shall be progressively reduced to the minimum levels which can be agreed upon as a result of the findings of the Nuclear Experts Commission; the resulting excess of fissionable material shall be transferred to peaceful purposes. D. To Further Reduce Strategic Nuclear Weapons Delivery Vehicles: Further reductions in the stocks of strategic nuclear weapons delivery vehicles and agreed types of weapons designed to counter such vehicles shall be carried out in accordance with the procedure outlined in Stage I. E. To Keep the Peace: During Stage II, states shall develop further the peace-keeping processes of the United Nations, to the end that the United Nations can effectively in Stage III deter or suppress any threat or use of force in violation of the purposes and principles of the United Nations: (a) States shall agree upon strengthening the structure, authority, and operation of the United Nations so as to assure that the United Nations will be able effectively to protect states against threats to or breaches of the peace. (b) The U.N. Peace Force shall be established and progressively strengthened. (c) States shall also agree upon further improvements and developments in rules of international conduct and in processes for peaceful settlement of disputes and differences. STAGE III By the time Stage II has been completed, the confidence produced through a verified disarmament program, the acceptance of rules of peaceful international behavior, and the development of strengthened international peace-keeping processes within the framework of the U.N. should have reached a point where the states of the world can move forward to Stage III. In Stage III progressive controlled disarmament and continuously developing principles and procedures of international law would proceed to a point where no state would have the military power to challenge the progressively strengthened U.N. Peace Force and all international disputes would be settled according to the agreed principles of international conduct. The progressive steps to be taken during the final phase of the disarmament program would be directed toward the attainment of a world in which: (a) States would retain only those forces, non-nuclear armaments, and establishments required for the purpose of maintaining internal order; they would also support and provide agreed manpower for a U.N Peace Force. (b) The U.N. Peace Force, equipped with agreed types and quantities of armaments, would be fully functioning. (c) The manufacture of armaments would be prohibited except for those of agreed types and quantities to be used by the U.N. Peace Force and those required to maintain internal order. All other armaments would be destroyed or converted to peaceful purposes. (d) The peace-keeping capabilities of the United Nations would be sufficiently strong and the obligations of all states under such arrangements sufficiently far-reaching as to assure peace and the just settlement of differences in a disarmed world. U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE: 11161 O-609147 ----- Original Message ----- From: Marc Delcour To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 4:49 PM Subject: Re: [Texas Net] We fought this war to turn Iraq over to the United Nations. John, Sauf my respect, i said it on this list a long time ago, before it occured. Marc ----- Original Message ----- From: John Perna To: John Birch Discuss Sent: samedi 17 janvier 2004 12:16 Subject: [Texas Net] We fought this war to turn Iraq over to the United Nations. Surprise! Surprise! Surprise! Surprise! We fought this war to turn Iraq over to the United Nations. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/16/politics/16IRAQ.html? ei=5062&en=58d28de70b62b9df&ex=1074834000&partner=GOOGLE&pagewanted=pr int&position= ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- January 16, 2004 U.S. Joins Iraqis to Seek U.N. Role in Interim Rule By STEVEN R. WEISMAN and JOHN H. CUSHMAN Jr. ASHINGTON, Jan. 15 — The Bush administration, trying to rescue its troubled plan to restore sovereignty to Iraq, is joining Iraqi leaders to press the United Nations to play a role in choosing an interim government in Baghdad, administration officials said Thursday. L. Paul Bremer III, the American administrator in Baghdad, and an Iraqi delegation led by Adnan Pachachi, the current chairman of the Iraqi Governing Council, will make an urgent appeal on Monday for greater United Nations involvement, the officials said. In Iraq on Thursday, tens of thousands of demonstrators put pressure on the United States to change its plans, marching in Basra to support calls by Iraq's leading Shiite cleric, Grand Ayatollah Ali al- Sistani, for direct elections. The new move involved yet another change in strategy for an administration under pressure from shifting events in Iraq. >From the start of planning the war to oust Saddam Hussein, the administration has had an ambivalent attitude toward the United Nations. As it begins to reach out for help, and as European nations indicate that they may provide some, the administration is also considering reversing itself and allowing businesses in countries that opposed the war, including France, Germany and Russia, to bid on contracts to rebuild Iraq, officials said. In recent months, the administration has said it wanted the United Nations to take part in building Iraqi democracy after the transition to self-rule. But the administration's intention was disrupted when Ayatollah Sistani criticized as undemocratic the American plan for caucuses to select an interim government. There were few details of what the United Nations was being asked to do to help the caucus plan, but administration officials said it could involve helping organize and perhaps certifying the legitimacy of the meetings. The caucuses, to be held in each of Iraq's 18 states, are to choose delegations to a national assembly that will sit while a permanent constitution is written and elections are planned for 2005. The plan is so complex that some of its supporters confess to bewilderment about carrying it out. "It's clear we want the United Nations to be involved," an administration official said. "It's clear the Iraqis want them. It's clear the security situation has improved, and we're willing to help with their security. But there are many stages we have to go through to get an agreement." At the United Nations, Secretary General Kofi Annan is said to be highly reluctant to give his blessing to what is widely seen as a jerry-built process in effect concocted to let the United States hand over sovereignty to Iraq by June 30, as the American elections get under way. "This meeting, for us, is a step along the way," an aide to Mr. Annan said. "It's not a meeting where there will be a decision on our part. We're going to listen to what they have to say, reflect on what they expect of us and get more detail on exactly how these caucuses are going to run." Mr. Bremer left for Washington on Thursday to meet with President Bush on Friday. The circumstances of his sudden departure put pressure on Mr. Annan, whose reluctance to send a team back to Iraq is shared by colleagues still grieving over the bomb attack last summer on United Nations headquarters in Baghdad. People close to Mr. Annan say he has rarely been in a more uncomfortable position. For months, he has wanted the United Nations to oversee Iraq's transition to self-government. But he did not want it to be seen as merely giving in to an American plan worked out with Iraqis chosen by Mr. Bremer. In Baghdad, Mr. Pachachi said that as the Iraqi Governing Council tries to refine the mechanics of the caucuses, the United Nations would be of great help. "If the United Nations is unable or unwilling to play a big role, that would be a matter of great regret for us," he said. What may persuade Mr. Annan to involve the United Nations, American officials said, is the urgent situation in Iraq, and the fact that Mr. Bremer and Mr. Pachachi are coming with a request for help endorsed implicitly by Ayatollah Sistani. Administration officials took pains to say the effort to get Mr. Annan and the United Nations involved began with the Iraqis. This was in keeping with the American insistence that it is the Iraqis who are working out their governing problems. One administration official said Mr. Pachachi, a former foreign minister, and a handful of other Iraqis on the Governing Council have borne the brunt of the work by leading the effort to write an interim Iraqi law that would determine the nation's federal structure, the role of Islam and many other issues. "This is an Iraqi process," an American official insisted. "It's an Iraqi generated initiative. These guys in the Governing Council are trying to deal with their constituencies, including one very vocal constituent group that had 10,000 people in the streets of Basra this morning." He was referring to the demonstration in the heart of Shiite territory backing the ayatollah's demands for a democratically elected interim government. Since the beginning of the American occupation of Iraq, the United States has had difficulties dealing with the country's three biggest groups: Kurds, Sunnis and Shiites. Now those problems are reaching full boil, according to some administration officials, with Kurds demanding their own semiautonomous state, Sunnis feeling frozen out because of a campaign to rid Iraq's leadership of anyone associated with Mr. Hussein and now Shiites demanding a more democratic transition. American officials say the Nov. 15 plan, with its caucus process, is "holy writ" in the administration. The tough question is likely to be whether the United Nations takes part in the caucuses, perhaps even conducting ballots at the caucus meetings. But aides to Mr. Annan say they fear signing on to something that only looks democratic. "Are we supposed to have an advisory role or to have people in each of Iraq's 18 provinces?" a United Nations official asked. "What would they do if they are out in the provinces? Who handles their security? Are we being asked to do something where we have no real authority? These are very difficult questions that need to be answered." More than one official noted the coincidence that the session to discuss the legitimacy of caucuses would occur on the very day of the Iowa caucuses, which are also notorious for their complexity. Reporting was contributed by Steven R. Weisman in Washington, John H. Cushman Jr. in Baghdad, Warren Hoge at the United Nations and David E. Sanger in Washington. --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], carl william spitzer iv <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Just ask the Kurds about WMD. Problem is the west supplied the prick. > and like Osama and Noriega came back to bite us. Usama was an ungrateful > SOB. > > CWSIV > > On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 00:31:34 -0500 (Central Daylight Time) "Chad McBride" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > Saddam had WMD's no Doubt about it !!!!! > > = > > > >Chad W. McBride > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] = > > > >-------Original Message------- > > = > > > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Date: 09/28/04 11:00:50 > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: RE: [JBirch] WS>>Bush Didn't Lie About Weapons of Mass > >Destruction > > = > > > >Hi, > > > >How sadly misinformed you are about WMDs. > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > Get your name as your email address. > Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more > Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/A0NplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> The opinions expressed on this forum are those of the authors of the articles posted. 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