Re: [CTRL] Abortion and the English Language
-Caveat Lector- At 10:56 AM 9/17/00 -0700, nessie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >[EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes: >>Question: What, if any, crime has been committed? > > > > >That depends on the wording of the local laws, and NOT on anyone's >religious beliefs, particularly those of somebody else, not involved, and >living in another legal juristiction. > Your answer is a very close approximation of "Duh-uh?" Name one jurisdiction in the United States of America -- ONE -- where it is legal for a medical doctor on his sole discretion to stick a needle into an in utero fetus and kill it? Name one jurisdiction where "the wording of local laws" affirmatively permit this action. >Crime is a legal matter, not a religious one. > Yeah. So what? You didn't answer the question. "What, if any, crime has been committed?" I'll make it REAL simple for you: A. A crime has been committed. The nature of the crime is: . B. No crime has been committed; medical doctors can spear and mutilate in utero fetuses whenever they damn well please. DBC
Re: [CTRL] Abortion and the English Language
-Original Message- From: nessie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Saturday, September 16, 2000 5:09 PM Subject: Re: [CTRL] Abortion and the English Language [EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes: > >In legal terms you become a person when you are bornbut legally you >can >define anything And in religious terms you can define anything. The definition of a fetus as a person is a religious definition. Not all people share, or can be realistically expected to share, that religion or any single religion. It is not going to happen. Period. End of story. Trying to force other people to practice your religion, whatever it is, inevitably leads to conflict. As for negative attitudes about whites in South Africa, you brought it on yourselves. I have no sympathy. == There are 2 famous Psychology experiments that come to mind The first is where 5 people are told to judge the lenghth of the number of lines. the one line is clearly shorter than the others but the first 4 people giving the lenghths are plants and say that the shortest lie is the longest. The majority of subjects complied to the opinion of the majority...Today the TV and those who contol it do the same. The second is the case where an actor is hired to apperar as if he is receibving an electric shock. A subject is told that the person (actor ) is hired to test their reaction to pain . The xperimenter tells the subject to start giving electric shocks. It was guessed that less than .1% of people would give a lethal shock. In practice about 75% did under the compulsion(verbal only) of the experimenter. The utilitarian mind set easily falls into the handing over the definition of utility not even to themselves but to the media. Finished and Klaar John === Just one fact- the level of people being murdered now is 2-3x that being murderred under the old Government. http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Abortion and the English Language
[EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes: >Question: What, if any, crime has been committed? That depends on the wording of the local laws, and NOT on anyone's religious beliefs, particularly those of somebody else, not involved, and living in another legal juristiction. Crime is a legal matter, not a religious one. http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Abortion and the English Language
At 08:17 AM 9/14/00 -0700, nessie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >[EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes: >>If the "mother" wants an unborn child to live, then it's a "person", > > > >Not until it's born. > Ms. Single Thirdworlder checks into the county welfare hospital eight months pregnant. Dr. Population Control prepares her for "delivery". He sticks a needle into a tissue mass he finds inside the woman's uterus, and then withdraws a "non-viable" (i.e. dead) fetus. He displays it to Ms. Thirdworlder: "Lucky you! I found this thing growing inside of you, and it was feeding on nutrients from your body. We know that it wasn't a "person" because it wasn't "born". I went ahead and removed it from you because it it was "medically indicated". "And, by the way, we're all better off because there's one less mouth to feed, and we have helped save "the environment". Question: What, if any, crime has been committed? DBC http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Abortion and the English Language
[EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes: > >In legal terms you become a person when you are bornbut legally you >can >define anything And in religious terms you can define anything. The definition of a fetus as a person is a religious definition. Not all people share, or can be realistically expected to share, that religion or any single religion. It is not going to happen. Period. End of story. Trying to force other people to practice your religion, whatever it is, inevitably leads to conflict. As for negative attitudes about whites in South Africa, you brought it on yourselves. I have no sympathy. It is interesting to note, however, that not all whites in SA are ill thought of. Many whites fought apartheid. For this they are accepted by society as a whole and respected for their courage (except, of course, for the ones who never lived to see apartheid fall because they were brutally murdered by the apartheid regime). This is not to say there is not a lot wrong with the ANC. There is, and not just with the leadership. As far as I'm concerned, the whole concept of party rule, any party rule, is bogus. But to expect the social distortions of centuries of colonialism to disappear over night is totally unrealistic. It's going to take generations to undo the damage. Stop whining and help. http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Abortion and the English Language
[EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes: >If the "mother" wants an unborn child to live, then it's a "person", Not until it's born. In legal terms you become a person when you are bornbut legally you can define anything . Blacks in america were considerred a part personso in a way is the unborn child. (I sometimes imagine a pessimistic situation in SA where the ANC decides that I am not a person- a full person being defined as someone who is a designated person(ie blackyou cant use the euphinism minority here because the whites are a minority) Together with another party ...say the PAC who went around saying one settler one bullet(ie dont waste your bullets) pass this and hey presto I can be aborted.) I delibrately used these words however not for legal definition but to humanise the unborn child , The point I make again is that definitions have very little to do with it. Rather the world view of utilitarianism has become the dominant one. That means that the all those who believe it in effect say that "I want to maximise my utility (long term pleasure) by destroyng the fetus/ unborn child. Maximising the societies utility, nor that of the fetus/child is not my responsibility" John http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Abortion and the English Language
nessie wrote: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes: > >If the "mother" wants an unborn child to live, then it's a "person", > > Not until it's born. That's a cultural determination. Not a legal, or scientific one. One can argue that after 24 weeks when the development of the lungs is finished, that fetus is capable of survival with technological help. Society could decide that it is a person at this time. Prior to 24 weeks, the little peeper is nothing more than a mass of functioning cells under continuous development. There is no way to make the claim that this is a person, since it does not have lungs and organs. Only those who are superstitionally challenged claim that this is a "person" because to them a cell mass + soul ( a mythological concoction ) = a person. Personally though I agree that a fetus which survives birth is a person. The Jews don't consider a newborn a " person " until it has survived for 8 days out of the womb. On the 8th day, it gets to join the tribe by circumcision. If it's a boy. J2 http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Abortion and the English Language
[EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes: >If the "mother" wants an unborn child to live, then it's a "person", Not until it's born. http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Abortion and the English Language
At 06:09 PM 9/9/00 -0400, William Shannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >It's not a lie and it IS much more honest than the anti-choicers calling >themselves "pro-life" when the lion's share of them are pro-death penalty. >Most people I know are indeed "pro-choice" as am I, and the main point here >is that we wouldn't presume to be so bold as to tell another person what she >ought to do regarding her pregnancy...it's HER body and HER choice and most >thinking Americans respect that. > >Bill. > The abortnik position is fundamentally absurd. It delegates to individuals the privilege of deciding whether OTHER persons may live or die. If the "mother" wants an unborn child to live, then it's a "person", and any other person who harms the "unborn child" can be prosecuted. If the "mother" does NOT want an unborn child to live, then it's a "tissue mass". We're only a philosophical inch away from the next update to the abortnik theology which will say that the "mother" has the "right" to post partum "abortions". DBC http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Abortion and the English Language
[EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes: >I originally sent this in tolook at the use of language not abortion Calling a fetus a person is a disingenuous use of language.You can call an egg a chicken but that don't make it cluck. http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Abortion and the English Language
>Firstly this is a disussion group and nothing is being forced >secondly your response is repeating the political formula's without thought >Thirdly/..testing for peoplehood if I suggest that all people who commit >abortions should have the responsibility of disposing of the non thing that >has just died, what would most peoples reaction be? > >Also if the unborn baby is part of the mother only why is every cell >different from the mother. >And if an normal person went to have 3kg of healthy tissue removed a normal >hospital would treat them as crazy( you want your heart removed because you >dont want it to beat? > Also secular religions have not clean hands ..name the secular grouping and some of its offspring will have murder and certainty of purpose to its cause. So murder of babies and old men are acceptable now, because that is the present morality. >The level of argument does not lie here however it lies in fundamental >philosphies of utilitarianism versus communitarianism / contractualism. >Utilitarians want the maximum benefit to existing productive individuals. >That is why they can also easily talk about infanticide(peter singer) and >euthenasia. >The people who control the conspiracy favour this approach because it make >people easier to manipulate via the media. (a strong group identity is easier to manipulate from the inside but the one worlders are the perpetual insider/outsiders) > >John > >PS I originally sent this in tolook at the use of language not abortion > > > >-Original Message- >From: nessie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Date: Sunday, September 10, 2000 1:05 AM >Subject: Re: [CTRL] Abortion and the English Language > > >This is bogus logic, based on the a priori assumption that a fetus is a >person. That a fetus is a person is not a fact, but a religious doctrine. >As such it aplies only to the practitioners of those religions of which it >is a tenet. Stop trying to cram your religion down the rest of our >throats. Hasn't 1500 years of religious warfare been enough? When are you >going to learn? Attempting to force your religion on others leads to >violent resistance. Is that what you want? > http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Abortion and the English Language
[EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes: > >If the residents of Texas vote against the legalization of abortion, and >I live in Texas and want an abortion, I would simply go to Oklahoma or >Arizona or any other state >where abortion has been voted in. Only if you could afford it. That makes it a class priveledge. Do we really want a society where certain medical procedures are class priveleges and the government decides which ones they are? That's exactly what you are proposing here. http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Abortion and the English Language
I am pro-life AND pro-choice. I believe that abortion is murder and that it is wrong. But I believe that others should not be forced by law to abide by my beliefs. The controversy surrounding abortion results from there actually being TWO issues here. The first is the issue of abortion and the second is the issue of state mandate. No government should have the right to make these decisions for an individual. So long as there is not a law requiring abortion (as in China), it should remain a legal choice for each individual. Actually, this is a State's Rights issue. Each sovereign state should have a process for voting on the laws in their state. If the residents of Texas vote against the legalization of abortion, and I live in Texas and want an abortion, I would simply go to Oklahoma or Arizona or any other state where abortion has been voted in. We in Texas voted on the lottery and other states have voted on issues like prostitution and the legalization of medical marijuana ... this issue belongs to the people who live in that state. To paraphrase an old truth: I disagree with your decision to have an abortion, but I will fight like hell for your right to have it. Jean Staffen -- William Shannon wrote: > In a message dated 9/9/00 12:13:37 PM Central Daylight Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > << nobody admits to being > "pro-abortion"; they are "pro-choice." This is an obvious lie. >> > > It's not a lie and it IS much more honest than the anti-choicers calling > themselves "pro-life" when the lion's share of them are pro-death penalty. > Most people I know are indeed "pro-choice" as am I, and the main point here > is that we wouldn't presume to be so bold as to tell another person what she > ought to do regarding her pregnancy...it's HER body and HER choice and most > thinking Americans respect that. > > Bill. > > http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER > == > CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic > screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are > sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- > directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with > major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. > That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and > always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no > credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. > > Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. > > Archives Available at: > http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html > http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ > http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl > > To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Om http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Abortion and the English Language
This is bogus logic, based on the a priori assumption that a fetus is a person. That a fetus is a person is not a fact, but a religious doctrine. As such it aplies only to the practitioners of those religions of which it is a tenet. Stop trying to cram your religion down the rest of our throats. Hasn't 1500 years of religious warfare been enough? When are you going to learn? Attempting to force your religion on others leads to violent resistance. Is that what you want? http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Abortion and the English Language
In a message dated 9/9/00 12:13:37 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << nobody admits to being "pro-abortion"; they are "pro-choice." This is an obvious lie. >> It's not a lie and it IS much more honest than the anti-choicers calling themselves "pro-life" when the lion's share of them are pro-death penalty. Most people I know are indeed "pro-choice" as am I, and the main point here is that we wouldn't presume to be so bold as to tell another person what she ought to do regarding her pregnancy...it's HER body and HER choice and most thinking Americans respect that. Bill. http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] Abortion and the English Language
Abortion and the English Language by Joseph Sobran In his famous essay "Politics and the English Language," George Orwell analyzed the corrupting influence of dishonest politics on the way we speak and think. There is no better example than the effect abortion has had on our language. Though abortion -- including the killing of viable infants at the verge of birth -- is now a sacrament of the Democratic Party, nobody admits to being "pro-abortion"; they are "pro-choice." This is an obvious lie. The right to choose anything presupposes the right to live. The child, fetus, embryo, or whatever you want to call the entity growing within its mother's womb has no "choice" about being killed. It will never have a choice about anything. The pro-abortion side is pro-abortion in the same way that advocates of slavery were pro-slavery. "Oh," they protest, "but we don't insist that everyone get an abortion; we only want people" -- that is, mothers -- "to have a choice!" Then nobody was pro-slavery either, since nobody insisted that every white man own a slave; they were "pro-choice." They wanted each white man to be "free" to decide whether to buy slaves; or they wanted every state to decide whether to permit slavery. Of course they overlooked the obvious fact that the slaves themselves had no choice; in their minds this was irrelevant. The bad conscience of the pro-aborters shows in their studious avoidance of the word kill to describe what abortion is. Why be coy about it? We don't mind speaking of "killing" when we kill lower life forms. Lawn products kill weeds; mouthwashes kill germs; insecticides kill bugs; mousetraps kill mice. If the human fetus is an insignificant little thing, why shrink from saying an abortion kills it? But the pro-abortion side prefers the evasive euphemism that abortion "terminates a pregnancy." As Orwell noted, dishonest people instinctively prefer the abstract to the concrete. Abstract language avoids creating unpleasant mental images that might cause horror and shame; concrete language may remind us of what we are really doing. This is why military jargon dehumanizes the targets of bombs and artillery: so that soldiers and pilots won't vividly imagine the men, women, and children they are killing. Part of the job of military leadership is to anesthetize the consciences of fighting men. And political leaders (who usually start the wars in the first place) do their part by describing the bombing of cities as "defending freedom." In the modern world people are trained to avoid looking directly at the effects of violence they commit or sanction. If possible, the killing is delegated to specialists, who themselves are increasingly remote from their victims -- as in recent U.S. bombings of Iraq and Yugoslavia, where American casualties were nearly zero. Most of us don't mind if our military kills people on the other side of the world; we feel no pain, even vicariously. We may even buy the official explanation that our bombs are "preventing another Holocaust." It may seem otherwise to the Iraqis and Slavs on whose homes those bombs are falling. But just as the news media refrain from showing us what those bombs actually do, they never show us what an abortion looks like. They even refuse to carry ads by abortion opponents, on grounds that pictures of slaughtered fetuses are in "bad taste." They certainly are in bad taste; all atrocities are. But the media are willing to show some atrocities, as in the killing fields of Rwanda a few years ago. Since we're forever debating abortion, why not let us see one? Why the blackout? The answer, of course, is that the news media themselves are pro-abortion. They adopt the dishonest language of the pro-abortion side: pro-choice, fetus, terminate, and -- my favorite -- abortion provider (to make the abortionist sound like a humanitarian). A few years ago NBC produced a sympathetic movie about a woman seeking an abortion -- Norma McCorvey, the "Roe" of Roe v. Wade. But when Mrs. McCorvey later changed her mind and became an active opponent of abortion, did NBC do a sequel? Unimaginable. We have to keep our guard up at all times against political language, especially in seemingly bland journalism, that is subtly infected with propagandistic purposes. http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. ===
