Re: [CTRL] Draft dodging, War monger Liberals
-Caveat Lector- can you please stop defining a political belief by it's poltician's? i really hate it when people do this. because Clinton (who i have absolutely no respect for, incidentally) calls himself a liberal does not necessarily mean he is one, it is merely another lie. i would've thought you'd have figured out that the idea of him being a libertarian was just another one of his endless stream of lies. btw, about the british labour party, i'd hardly call the leadership and all the faithful little Blairites the 'leading lights', Tony Benn has come out very strongly against the war. When people condemn one pointless war, and encourage a different, even more pointless war which has all the makings of a large regional conflict or even a world war, this means that they are merely liars. liars should not be defined as 'libertarian' or 'conservative' or 'socialist', they should be defined as only one thing, 'liar'. although the label of politician would do equally well Where have all the Western liberals gone? Nearly two weeks into NATO's war against Serbia, there is barely a whimper of protest in either Europe or North America. But then you can't expect Western peaceniks to protest against a war they themselves are waging. Nearly eight years ago, the U.S. Democrats came very close to denying the President, Mr. George Bush, the authority to wage a war against Iraq's Mr. Saddam Hussein. But now it is a Democrat in the White House who is pursuing an open-ended war in the Balkans. In Britain, many leading lights of the Labour Party and the Left had strongly protested against the Gulf War. Now a Labour Prime Minister, Mr. Tony Blair, is among the NATO hawks on Kosovo. The reversal of attitudes towards war and peace among liberals is most visible in Germany, where the ruling alliance of Social Democrats and pacifist Greens has ordered the German bombers into combat for the first time since the end of Second World War. Until recently, German public opinion refused to endorse the participation of German armed forces even in international peace- keeping missions, given the sensitivities arising from the Nazi past. But now there is strong support in Germany for the war against Serbia. In France, where the intelligentsia traditionally revelled in opposing American "Cowboy imperialism", is backing the war against Serbia. The French Government, which had been promoting the idea of a "multipolar world" is now firmly with the United States in the Balkan war. The conservative French President, Mr. Jacques Chirac, and Socialist Prime Minister, Mr. Lionel Jospin, have set aside political differences and the traditional suspicion of the NATO to line up behind the bombing of Belgrade. Although there is some unease in Europe -- particularly among the former Communists and in Greece -- at the unfolding war in the Balkans, the measure of political unity that has emerged in the Continent against Serbia is unprecedented. A war started by the Western liberals in the Balkans has now gained strong support from the conservatives -- of course, for entirely different reasons. The liberals have always recoiled at the idea of going to war in pursuit of such crass objectives as balance of power, geopolitics, or securing valuable natural resources such as oil. The European liberals were particularly irked by what they saw as attempts by the U.S. to drag their nations, through the NATO, into such wars. They see the war in the Balkans, however, as being driven not by narrow national interests but by the moral imperative of preventing "genocide", "ethnic cleansing" and the return of "barbarism" to Europe. Although many in the world may not share this view, there is no denying the strength of this belief in Europe, and the absence of any sympathy for the Serb point of view. When the Balkan crisis began to unfold at the turn of the 1990s, the then U.S. President, Mr. Bush, was extremely reluctant to get involved. Despite the fact that he had successfully waged the Gulf War in the name of a "New world Order", Mr. Bush was determined not to repeat the adventure in the Balkans. Mr. Bush and other American conservative internationalists seemed to say "we don't have dog in that fight". With no conceivable geopolitical interest in the Balkans, the Bush Administration was quite happy to leave it to the European powers to manage the crisis. It was the American liberals who challenged the Republican policy of benign neglect and kept up the demand for a U.S. military intervention. In his election campaign against Mr. Bush, Mr. Clinton attacked the American inaction in the Balkans. But when he took over as President, Mr. Clinton was equally wary of being drawn into the Balkan quagmire. But as the European efforts failed and the political pressure from the liberals mounted, Mr. Clinton got the U.S. inextricably entangled into the conflict by the mid- 1990s.
Re: [CTRL] Draft dodging, War monger Liberals
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 4/12/99 7:31:55 PM EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Where have all the Western liberals gone? Nearly two weeks into NATO's war against Serbia, there is barely a whimper of protest in either Europe or North America. But then you can't expect Western peaceniks to protest against a war they themselves are waging. Nearly eight years ago, the U.S. Democrats came very close to denying the President, Mr. George Bush, the authority to wage a war against Iraq's Mr. Saddam Hussein. But now it is a Democrat in the White House who is pursuing an open-ended war in the Balkans. In Britain, many leading lights of the Labour Party and the Left had strongly protested against the Gulf War. Now a Labour Prime Minister, Mr. Tony Blair, is among the NATO hawks on Kosovo. The reversal of attitudes towards war and peace among liberals is most visible in Germany, where the ruling alliance of Social Democrats and pacifist Greens has ordered the German bombers into combat for the first time since the end of Second World War. Until recently, German public opinion refused to endorse the participation of German armed forces even in international peace- keeping missions, given the sensitivities arising from the Nazi past. But now there is strong support in Germany for the war against Serbia. In France, where the intelligentsia traditionally revelled in opposing American "Cowboy imperialism", is backing the war against Serbia. The French Government, which had been promoting the idea of a "multipolar world" is now firmly with the United States in the Balkan war. The conservative French President, Mr. Jacques Chirac, and Socialist Prime Minister, Mr. Lionel Jospin, have set aside political differences and the traditional suspicion of the NATO to line up behind the bombing of Belgrade. Although there is some unease in Europe -- particularly among the former Communists and in Greece -- at the unfolding war in the Balkans, the measure of political unity that has emerged in the Continent against Serbia is unprecedented. A war started by the Western liberals in the Balkans has now gained strong support from the conservatives -- of course, for entirely different reasons. The liberals have always recoiled at the idea of going to war in pursuit of such crass objectives as balance of power, geopolitics, or securing valuable natural resources such as oil. The European liberals were particularly irked by what they saw as attempts by the U.S. to drag their nations, through the NATO, into such wars. They see the war in the Balkans, however, as being driven not by narrow national interests but by the moral imperative of preventing "genocide", "ethnic cleansing" and the return of "barbarism" to Europe. Although many in the world may not share this view, there is no denying the strength of this belief in Europe, and the absence of any sympathy for the Serb point of view. I'm a liberal and I agree with this article. We're through the Looking Glass now. Lawmakers I have admired are on TV saying we must do whatever is needed to win this. Senators who were opposed to Viet Nam (not to mention a President who passionately opposed Viet Nam) are "championing" the cause of the KLA and the Kosavars. I am beginning to wonder if the ridiculous basis for impeachement was a ruse to arouse the disgust of thoughtful people and bind them in loyalty to the "victim" president so we would be loyal to him while he uses our huge military force to decimate cities and people during this "humanitarian" mission. Imagine the likes of me calling Trent Lott and Jesse Helms to thank them for their opposition to this NATO action. Imagine the likes of me vowing never to use the name "Kennedy" and the word "humanitarian" in the same sentence again, except to point out that he ISN'T one. The doves have become hawks and the hawks doves. The country has gone mad. Samm DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory
[CTRL] Draft dodging, War monger Liberals
-Caveat Lector- from: http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3709d42e77ce.htm Kosovo: the liberals' war -- By C. Raja Mohan The Hindu NEW DELHI, April 5. Where have all the Western liberals gone? Nearly two weeks into NATO's war against Serbia, there is barely a whimper of protest in either Europe or North America. But then you can't expect Western peaceniks to protest against a war they themselves are waging. Nearly eight years ago, the U.S. Democrats came very close to denying the President, Mr. George Bush, the authority to wage a war against Iraq's Mr. Saddam Hussein. But now it is a Democrat in the White House who is pursuing an open-ended war in the Balkans. In Britain, many leading lights of the Labour Party and the Left had strongly protested against the Gulf War. Now a Labour Prime Minister, Mr. Tony Blair, is among the NATO hawks on Kosovo. The reversal of attitudes towards war and peace among liberals is most visible in Germany, where the ruling alliance of Social Democrats and pacifist Greens has ordered the German bombers into combat for the first time since the end of Second World War. Until recently, German public opinion refused to endorse the participation of German armed forces even in international peace- keeping missions, given the sensitivities arising from the Nazi past. But now there is strong support in Germany for the war against Serbia. In France, where the intelligentsia traditionally revelled in opposing American "Cowboy imperialism", is backing the war against Serbia. The French Government, which had been promoting the idea of a "multipolar world" is now firmly with the United States in the Balkan war. The conservative French President, Mr. Jacques Chirac, and Socialist Prime Minister, Mr. Lionel Jospin, have set aside political differences and the traditional suspicion of the NATO to line up behind the bombing of Belgrade. Although there is some unease in Europe -- particularly among the former Communists and in Greece -- at the unfolding war in the Balkans, the measure of political unity that has emerged in the Continent against Serbia is unprecedented. A war started by the Western liberals in the Balkans has now gained strong support from the conservatives -- of course, for entirely different reasons. The liberals have always recoiled at the idea of going to war in pursuit of such crass objectives as balance of power, geopolitics, or securing valuable natural resources such as oil. The European liberals were particularly irked by what they saw as attempts by the U.S. to drag their nations, through the NATO, into such wars. They see the war in the Balkans, however, as being driven not by narrow national interests but by the moral imperative of preventing "genocide", "ethnic cleansing" and the return of "barbarism" to Europe. Although many in the world may not share this view, there is no denying the strength of this belief in Europe, and the absence of any sympathy for the Serb point of view. When the Balkan crisis began to unfold at the turn of the 1990s, the then U.S. President, Mr. Bush, was extremely reluctant to get involved. Despite the fact that he had successfully waged the Gulf War in the name of a "New world Order", Mr. Bush was determined not to repeat the adventure in the Balkans. Mr. Bush and other American conservative internationalists seemed to say "we don't have dog in that fight". With no conceivable geopolitical interest in the Balkans, the Bush Administration was quite happy to leave it to the European powers to manage the crisis. It was the American liberals who challenged the Republican policy of benign neglect and kept up the demand for a U.S. military intervention. In his election campaign against Mr. Bush, Mr. Clinton attacked the American inaction in the Balkans. But when he took over as President, Mr. Clinton was equally wary of being drawn into the Balkan quagmire. But as the European efforts failed and the political pressure from the liberals mounted, Mr. Clinton got the U.S. inextricably entangled into the conflict by the mid- 1990s. The Balkans have became the new testing ground for the convictions of postmodern liberal internationalism in the West. Since the end of the Cold War, liberal internationalists have been the strongest champions of Western intervention in the internal affairs of other nations in pursuit of universal values. Discarding the earlier distrust of interventionary policies, induced by the Vietnam war, the liberals now sought to mobilise Western state power to set right every wrong in the world -- from human rights to environmental standards and from religious freedom to sexual orientation. Whether it was to save failing States in Somalia or Haiti, or the promotion of democracy in China and Myanmar, the liberals called for greater American activism through use of either military force or
