[CTRL] Fwd: "An Eye for an Eye" Doesn't Go Far Enough
-Caveat Lector- http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om --- Begin Message --- -Caveat Lector- Israeli minister calls for murder of families of Palestinian suicide bombers August 21, 2001 Israeli deputy public security minister Gideon Ezra has openly called for Israel to murder the families of potential Palestinian suicide bombers. The following is an excerpt from a column in the Israeli newspaper Haaretz, by Akiva Eldar. "Ask Clinton what he thinks about Camp David" by Akiva Eldar Haaretz, August 21, 2001 Family therapy K., a Theresienstadt survivor, was distraught to the point of tears. "What's happening to us?" she asked. "Did you hear the deputy public security minister, Gideon Ezra? I can't calm down. Now he's proposing on television to execute the families of the Palestinian suicide bombers." K. said Ezra didn't invent the system in which relatives are punished for the sins of their fathers or sons. She remembers it well from the 1940s in occupied Europe. But her Hebrew is not very good, and maybe she didn't really understand what was said. Otherwise it's impossible that the Jewish state let such things go right past its ears.But K. wasn't wrong. Here are excerpts from an interview with Ezra broadcast Sunday night on state television in the New Evening (Erev Hadash) program. And none of his colleagues in the government protested.Geula Even: "What idea do you have to chill the motivations of the suicide bomber. You said something about harming their families. What does that mean."Ezra: "I'm talking about there being a conversation between a psychologist with every one of those suicide bombers and the psychologists will check what brought them to suicide."Even:"You mean the ones who are caught."Ezra: "The ones who are caught. To learn about those who go out in the future. If, for example, it turns out from the three [in Israeli custody] that harming their family would have prevented them from going out on a suicide mission, that's a possible answer..."Even: "Just a minute, you're saying that if it turns out that by killing the father of a suicide bomber it would prevent him from going to a discotheque to blow himself up, then the parents should be eliminated?"Ezra: "Absolutely. You have to understand that we paid a price in children and elderly and babies ... the suicide bomber should know that his family will be wiped out, and that's better then him going out, and nobody will get killed and there will be peace."Historian Prof. Moshe Zimmerman of Hebrew University says the Nazis used to arrest the families of people suspected of trying to undermine the regime or harm its officials. "The method had a name - sippenhaft. They used it, for example, when they caught the conspirators against Hitler in July 1944. You know that if you act against the state, the entire family will suffer. In the occupation areas, they made wide use of the method. If someone shot a German soldier, he knew that if the assassin wasn't caught, 50 people would hang."But if Ezra is looking for help from some of his former colleagues in the Shin Bet to provide him with folklore about suicide bombers, he might end up with a better method than the family treatment plan he's suggesting. Someone at the Shin Bet no doubt noticed the sermon, broadcast on Palestinian TV, from the Sheikh Il'ijun Mosque, as preached by Sheikh Isma'il al-Adouan: "The shahid, if he meets Allah, is forgiven his first drop of blood; he's saved from the grave's confines; he sees his seat in heaven; he's saved from judgment day; he's given 72 dark-eyed women; he's an advocate for 70 members of his family." If nobody at the Shin Bet has seen it, it's available through the Middle East Media and Research Institute.So who knows, Mr. Ezra. Maybe the family would
[CTRL] Fwd: "An Eye for an Eye" Doesn't Go Far Enough
-Caveat Lector- http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om --- Begin Message --- -Caveat Lector- "[God] commanded the total eradication - including women and children - of certain nations (Amalek being a singular illustration) because of the continuing threat its members presented to the survival of Israel. "When there is no other deterrent, self-defense entitles one to take measures that are ordinarily unacceptable." --Nathan Lewin http://www.forward.com/issues/2002/02.06.07/news1.html JUNE 7, 2002 "Forward" Top Lawyer Urges Death for Families of Bombers Lewin: 'A Policy Born of Necessity' By AMI EDEN FORWARD STAFF A prominent Washington attorney and Jewish communal leader is calling for the execution of family members of suicide bombers. Nathan Lewin, an oft-mentioned candidate for a federal judgeship and legal advisor to several Orthodox organizations, told the Forward that such a policy would provide a much-needed deterrent against suicide attacks. Under the proposal, which Lewin unveiled in the current issue of the opinion journal Sh'ma, family members would be spared if they immediately condemned the bombing and refused financial compensation for the loss of their relative. (Lewin's article appears at http://www.shma.com/may02/nathan.htm.) While a 20-month spate of suicide bombings has been met in the Jewish community with calls for increasingly Draconian preventive measures, Lewin appears to be the first Jewish communal leader to approve publicly of the concept of executing innocent civilians in the hopes of curbing terrorism. "If executing some suicide-bomber families saves the lives of even an equal number of potential civilian victims, the exchange is, I believe, ethically permissible," wrote Lewin, who has served as president of the International Association of Jewish Lawyers and Jurists and is a vice president of the Orthodox Union. "It is a policy born of necessity â the need to find a true deterrent when capital punishment is demonstrably ineffective." Lewin argued that the Biblical injunction to destroy the whole tribe of Amalek serves as a precedent in Judaism for taking measures that are "ordinarily unacceptable," in the face of a mortal threat. His proposal, however, was rejected by an Israeli diplomat in New York, and discounted, in terms ranging from mild to condemnatory, by a range of commentators, terrorism experts and Jewish communal leaders from across the American political spectrum. "The State of Israel is determined to respond to every Palestinian provocation," said Ido Aharoni, consul for media and public affairs at Israel's New York consulate. "Israel's military approach is to pursue the perpetrators and those who seek to carry out acts of terrorism against innocent Israelis. Within that framework, Israel is trying to minimize, if possible to eliminate, the number of innocent lives lost." Several leading Jewish figures, including Harvard Law School professor [and frequent "legal expert" on cableTV news programs] Alan Dershowitz, argued that the plan represented a legitimate if flawed attempt to strike a balance between preventing terrorism and preserving democratic norms. But the proposal was strongly condemned by the head of the Reform movement, Rabbi Eric Yoffie, and the executive vice chairwoman of the Jewish Council for Public Affairs, Hannah Rosenthal."The opinion is utterly reprehensible and totally contrary to the most fundamental principles of the Jewish religious tradition and everything the State of Israel has been about since its founding," said Yoffie, president of the Union of American Hebrew Congregations. "I've said it, and everyone realizes, that in a war all of our standards on civil liberties may not appl
