Re: [CTRL] Global Warming Much Worse Than Predicted

[Steve]

-Caveat Lector-

On 20 Jul 01, at 17:31, John Sanders wrote:

 SO2 gas emissions also increased from 253 tons/day
 to 550 tons/day./B
   Steve please note the increase of SO2 gas emmission. Note it more than
 doubles in actual TONAGE released on a daily basis

John,

Compare this to 15 *million* tons / day of CO2 added by human sources, and
the fact that SO2 is not considered a major greenhouse gas, while CO2 is.

Remember also that volcanos release great amounts of particulates and as a
result have a net cooling effect on the planet.

(see http://www.science.gmu.edu/~zli/ghe.html)

I think that says quite a bit regarding the contribution of natural sources such
as volcanos vs. manmade contributions of CO2, don't you?

Steve




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Re: [CTRL] Global Warming Much Worse Than Predicted

[Steve]

-Caveat Lector-

Correction:  I understated the addition of CO2 to the atmosphere caused by
humans; it is 21 million tones/day, and the net increase in CO2 in the
atmosphere is 9 million tons/day.

Steve

On 21 Jul 01, at 3:48, Steve Wingate wrote:

 -  SNETNEWS  Mailing List

 On 20 Jul 01, at 17:31, John Sanders wrote:

  SO2 gas emissions also increased from 253 tons/day
  to 550 tons/day./B
Steve please note the increase of SO2 gas emmission. Note it more than
  doubles in actual TONAGE released on a daily basis

 John,

 Compare this to 15 *million* tons / day of CO2 added by human sources, and
 the fact that SO2 is not considered a major greenhouse gas, while CO2 is.

 Remember also that volcanos release great amounts of particulates and as a
 result have a net cooling effect on the planet.

 (see http://www.science.gmu.edu/~zli/ghe.html)

 I think that says quite a bit regarding the contribution of natural sources such
 as volcanos vs. manmade contributions of CO2, don't you?

 Steve




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Re: [CTRL] Global Warming Much Worse Than Predicted

[Steve]

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On 20 Jul 01, at 13:20, John Sanders wrote:

   Well it has not been to long ago that the once mighty mountain of St
 helens Erupted.  It has since been concluded, by some, that it put more
 greenhouse gases than all of the vehicles and smoke stacks through human
 history

And who are 'some' (spokespersons for the oil industry)? I would like to see
a source for this, otherwise this statement is just a rumor being promoted by
'some' of questionable credibility.

Steve


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Re: [CTRL] Global Warming Much Worse Than Predicted

[Nessie]

-Caveat Lector-

Follow the money: corporate funded Foundations provide grants to
environmental groups / environmental researchers to political minions.
Add into the mix the  unquestioning breathless global warming reporting
by the corporate media and
 you have an ongoing formulated plan.


So who is paying for the anti-global warming propaganda?

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Re: [CTRL] Global Warming Much Worse Than Predicted

[Nurev Ind.]

-Caveat Lector-

YnrChyldzWyld wrote:

 -Caveat Lector-

 On Sun, 15 Jul 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 AMEN AMEN!!!
 
 Sure feels like 'global warming' here in DC.
 59 degrees at night, days in the 70s, no humidity. TOTALLY UNLIKE
 the typical DC July.

 Just to clarify matters, my post neither supports or seeks to negate
 arguments pro or con for global warming or global cooling...

 What I was trying to point out is that the argument for either case can
 be as factual or otherwise as the opposing argument...proponents of
 either argument have any number of supposedly verified scientific studies
 which they trot out to 'prove' their case...how can both be right?

 The issue is really one of who exactly is manipulating the issue?  Cui
 bono?

 BTW, it is a common fallacy to think that global warming will mean that
 we all suddenly start experiencing tropical weather; in global warming,
 some areas will indeed experience abnormal COLD, as weather patterns are
 changed...

 June

Thank you. This is the salient point of the discussion. Global Warming
means climate change. Climate change is the issue. It means that the
more or less steady state of the interglacial warm period is over and
food supplies, as well as everything else relating to weather is no longer
reliably consistent.

Whether it gets hotter or colder is not the point right now.

J2

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Re: [CTRL] Global Warming Much Worse Than Predicted

[M.A. Johnson]

-Caveat Lector-

The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed
(and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an
endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary. -- H.L. Mencken

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Re: [CTRL] Global Warming Much Worse Than Predicted

[flw]

-Caveat Lector-


 The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed
 (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an
 endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary. -- H.L. Mencken


This Mencken quote should be chiseled on the Washington
monument or better yet at the entrance of the proposed
visitors center being developed for the capitol - certainly it
has been the working slogan for the US government for the past
100 years.
flw

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Re: [CTRL] Global Warming Much Worse Than Predicted

[flw]

-Caveat Lector-

 So it is illogical to assume that the climate cycles will continue as before with
 this most unnatural and unprecedented disturbance of Planet Earth.

 Steve

You demonstrate little awareness of the geo forces continually at work
on the planet. One major volcano eruption releases more so called
greenhouse gases into the atmosphere then all the worlds industrial
production for that year. A minor shift in the earth's tilt towards the sun
can suddenly lower or raise the average mean temperature several degrees
which can (and has) have dramatic effect causing sudden shifts from ice age to
steamhouse.

Stop buying into all the hyperbolic propaganda. There clearly is an agenda
behind the global warming posturingwhat the agenda is, I am not sure.
I suspect it is a multinational corporate plan to shift industrial resources to
the Third World in order to open up the huge consumer base of the underdeveloped
world economy.

Follow the money: corporate funded Foundations provide grants to environmental
groups / environmental researchers to political minions. Add into the mix the
unquestioning breathless global warming reporting by the corporate media and
you have an ongoing formulated plan.

But of course that is just a theory.

Wouldn't want to appear paranoid now would I?
flw

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Re: [CTRL] Global Warming Much Worse Than Predicted

[Nessie]

-Caveat Lector-

And you can add to these a considerable list of important things such
as: variables in the earth's orbital path and distance from the sun, and
volcanic activity.


And don't forget the Milankovitch cycles.

But at least we can agree the earth is getting warmer for some reason.
See? We CAN all get along.

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Re: [CTRL] Global Warming Much Worse Than Predicted

[flw]

-Caveat Lector-

 Nakano comments:
 Yes...earth tilt, magnetic shifts, solar eruptions.
 And you can add to these a considerable list of
 important things such as: variables in the earth's
 orbital path and distance from the sun, and
 volcanic activity.
 Until very recently, man's presence on this planet
 was a piddling and insignificant part of the mix.
 But man is now manipulating the earth's ionosphere
 and magnetosphere.  This is serious stuff!
 This is much more than piddling.
 We are dealing with vast forces and energies.
 Much like the Sorcerer's Apprentice, we may not
 have the knowledge and ability to control these
 things.
 The consequences could be catastrophic...or worse!

I am no expert on HARP and electromagnetic atmospheric manipulation.
However being aware of the utter stupidity of the government and its
secret plans and schemes...your thesis cannot be discounted.
flw

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Re: [CTRL] Global Warming Much Worse Than Predicted

[flw]

-Caveat Lector-

And don't forget the Milankovitch cycles.
But at least we can agree the earth is getting warmer for some reason.
See? We CAN all get along.
Nessie

I am not sure about that. It is possible but the data is conflicting. I recall all the
proof only 20 years ago that the earth was cooling. What is interesting is that
recent geological studies have confirmed that past warming and cooling often
occured very quickly (in as little as 20 years). It had been assumed that climate
change only occurred slowly over hundreds if not thousands of years.
flw

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Re: [CTRL] Global Warming Much Worse Than Predicted

[YnrChyldzWyld]

-Caveat Lector-

On Sun, 15 Jul 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
AMEN AMEN!!!

Sure feels like 'global warming' here in DC.
59 degrees at night, days in the 70s, no humidity. TOTALLY UNLIKE
the typical DC July.

Just to clarify matters, my post neither supports or seeks to negate
arguments pro or con for global warming or global cooling...

What I was trying to point out is that the argument for either case can
be as factual or otherwise as the opposing argument...proponents of
either argument have any number of supposedly verified scientific studies
which they trot out to 'prove' their case...how can both be right?

The issue is really one of who exactly is manipulating the issue?  Cui
bono?

BTW, it is a common fallacy to think that global warming will mean that
we all suddenly start experiencing tropical weather; in global warming,
some areas will indeed experience abnormal COLD, as weather patterns are
changed...


June

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Re: [CTRL] Global Warming Much Worse Than Predicted

[YnrChyldzWyld]

-Caveat Lector-

On Sat, 14 Jul 2001, Steve wrote:
 Now the liberals would have us believe that these predictions were wrong, and
 that the earth is getting hotter. But they don't have any real proof of this
 warming tread. The limited data base of ocean temps taken by satillite don't
 show a warming tread.

Get your facts straight, for once, Bill, (and Nakano).

Ocean temperatures have increased significantly.

What is being missed (or ignored) in all this rhetoric is the basic FACT
that throughout the decades of the 1960s and 70s, global COOLING was the
cause-du-jour of the scientific community and environmentalists, and all
manner of supposedly verified scientific data was trotted out to 'prove'
that by th 1990s/2000s most of the world would be caught in the grips of
a new ice age; indeed many popular books touted 'the coming ice age'...

Then in the 1980s both the scientific community and environmentalists did
a 180 degree turn, and started trotting out supposedly verified
scientific data purporting to 'prove' that the earth was instead
experiencing global WARMING and would be a sweltering greenhouse within a
few decades?

What happened to all the 'proof' of global COOLING that we were presented
with in the prior 2 decades?  If the 'proof' of global cooling was either
flawed or deliberately concocted, we should we be any more willing to
accept the veracity of the supposed 'proof' we are now presented of
supposed global WARMING...

Both sides of the argument can trot out any number of scientific studies
claiming to prove one side of the argument or the otherwhy should we
believe one over the other?

Look behind the smoke and mirrors to the men behind the curtain...


June

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Re: [CTRL] Global Warming Much Worse Than Predicted

[Nurev Ind.]

-Caveat Lector-

YnrChyldzWyld wrote:

 -Caveat Lector-

 On Sat, 14 Jul 2001, Steve wrote:
  Now the liberals would have us believe that these predictions were wrong, and
  that the earth is getting hotter. But they don't have any real proof of this
  warming tread. The limited data base of ocean temps taken by satillite don't
  show a warming tread.
 
 Get your facts straight, for once, Bill, (and Nakano).
 
 Ocean temperatures have increased significantly.

THIS IS ALL IRRELEVANT NONSENSE. The earth's glaciers and ice caps are
MELTING MELTING MELTING. GET IT? This is NOT because the earth is cooling,
or even staying the same. This does NOT require measurements or interpretations
of measurements. This is NOT dependent on Liberal or Conservative secret
agenda.

This is a physical, view able, experiential FACT. Get on the net and see for
yourselves.

Just stop the stupid arguments and pick it up from here.

Joshua2

 What is being missed (or ignored) in all this rhetoric is the basic FACT
 that throughout the decades of the 1960s and 70s, global COOLING was the
 cause-du-jour of the scientific community and environmentalists, and all
 manner of supposedly verified scientific data was trotted out to 'prove'
 that by th 1990s/2000s most of the world would be caught in the grips of
 a new ice age; indeed many popular books touted 'the coming ice age'...

 Then in the 1980s both the scientific community and environmentalists did
 a 180 degree turn, and started trotting out supposedly verified
 scientific data purporting to 'prove' that the earth was instead
 experiencing global WARMING and would be a sweltering greenhouse within a
 few decades?

 What happened to all the 'proof' of global COOLING that we were presented
 with in the prior 2 decades?  If the 'proof' of global cooling was either
 flawed or deliberately concocted, we should we be any more willing to
 accept the veracity of the supposed 'proof' we are now presented of
 supposed global WARMING...

 Both sides of the argument can trot out any number of scientific studies
 claiming to prove one side of the argument or the otherwhy should we
 believe one over the other?

 Look behind the smoke and mirrors to the men behind the curtain...

 June

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Re: [CTRL] Global Warming Much Worse Than Predicted

[Nakano Nakamura]

-Caveat Lector-

--- YnrChyldzWyld [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Look behind the smoke and mirrors to the men
   behind the curtain...

Nakano comments:
June...you have gone to the very heart of this
matter, and you have said it perfectly with one
of my very favorite quotes.
The real issue is who or what is behind the curtain
pushing the buttons and what are the motives?
Why is this being done?
Who benefits?
What agendas get advanced?

It seems to me that what's coming is some form of
stringent international controls on the use of
energy. There will be international taxes imposed.
The largest burden will of course fall on the U.S.
Today's energy prices will seem like the
good old days.  Many people will be unable to
afford the costs of driving and air conditioning.
Since energy costs greatly affect the costs of
almost everything,  almost everything will be much
more expensive.  All of this will be justified in
the name of halting global warming.
This premeditated process will establish the
legitimacy of international authority and
controls which supercede national authorities.

Here we see a prime example of the Hegelian Principle.
1. Create a problem
2. Build it into a crisis (at least a perceived
crisis)
3. Provide a solution to the created problem which
   enables you to achieve your original purpose.
(Another example of this is the so-called
 War on Drugs).

Huge problems, seemingly crucial to human survival,
are needed in order for people to be willing to
surrender such things as national sovereignty and
personal liberty and freedom.
Such problems (or the illusion of such problems),
are being provided by the Ruling Cabal...those
behind the curtain.

We must be aware...and respect the power of illusion.
Nothing is what it seems to be.
 Regards to All
   Nakano




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Re: [CTRL] Global Warming Much Worse Than Predicted

[Nessie]

-Caveat Lector-

What happened to all the 'proof' of global COOLING that we were
presented  with in the prior 2 decades? 


Science advances. Flat earth and leeches were once the height of
science, too. We learn from our mistakes. Well, some of us do, anyway.

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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Re: [CTRL] Global Warming Much Worse Than Predicted

[Theodor Parada, MD]

-Caveat Lector-

The glaciers have been melting since the last ice age, So what is
new? Nothing!!! Anything, that we do is not going to change it.

On 15 Jul 2001, at 12:53, Nurev Ind. wrote:

 THIS IS ALL IRRELEVANT NONSENSE. The earth's glaciers and ice caps are
 MELTING MELTING MELTING. GET IT? This is NOT because the earth is cooling,
 or even staying the same. This does NOT require measurements or interpretations
 of measurements. This is NOT dependent on Liberal or Conservative secret
 agenda.


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==
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screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

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Re: [CTRL] Global Warming Much Worse Than Predicted

[Nakano Nakamura]

-Caveat Lector-

--- Nurev Ind. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 THIS IS ALL IRRELEVANT NONSENSE. The earth's
 glaciers and ice caps are MELTING MELTING MELTING.
 GET IT?  This does NOT require measurements or
 interpretations of measurements. This is a physical,
 view able, experiential FACT.
_
Nakano comments:
Yes!
The earth's glaciers and ice caps are
MELTING MELTING MELTING (at least some are).
No argument here.
Howeverplease ask yourself a few basic questions.
How much of a temperature increase does it take to
starting melting the Anarctic ice cap?
1 or 2 degrees?   Wouldn't melt anything.
5 or 10 degrees?  Not nearly enough.
20 degrees?   Still not enough.

The average ice thickness in Anarctica is more than
1 mile.  The average temperature for most of the
year is well below zero.
So...a 5 or 10 degree or even 20 degree increase
would not melt the ice cap.

Now...ask yourself, has the entire earth had a
temperature increase of 5 or 10 or 20 degrees?
Absolutely not!
Even the most hysterical proponents of Global
Warming speak in terms of a fraction of 1 degree
increase.  A fraction of one degree!

Joshua 2.a fraction of one degree increase
will not melt the ice at the South Pole.  Even an
increase of 10 degrees would not produce the
MELTING  MELTING  MELTING.

Soif worldwide warming isn't melting ice at
the South Pole...what is?

Could it be that the temperature increase in certain
areas of the Anarctic is much much greater than for
the rest of the world?
Yes!

But...how is this possible?
How can you have enough heating there to melt ice,
and yet not cook the rest of the world?

This is accomplished by specifically targeting
specific areas in Anarctica (and certain other
areas) for large temperature increases.

The operative word here is: TARGETING.
Greenhouse Gases don't Target anything.
You do not get coherent patterns of warming
with Greenhouse Gases.

But you do get coherent patterns with Scalar
Weather Control and Climate Modification Technology.

Sothe MELTING MELTING MELTING supports the
conclusion that the temperature increases are not
worldwide but are in fact planned and targeted.

The Scalar Technology is real...and it really works!
The Greenhouse Gas scare is a cover story.

 Regards to All
   Nakano

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Re: [CTRL] Global Warming Much Worse Than Predicted

[flw]

-Caveat Lector-

 THIS IS ALL IRRELEVANT NONSENSE. The earth's glaciers and ice caps are
 MELTING MELTING MELTING. GET IT? This is NOT because the earth is cooling,
 or even staying the same. This does NOT require measurements or interpretations
 of measurements. This is NOT dependent on Liberal or Conservative secret
 agenda.

As has happened countless times over the course of the past million years.

A thousand years ago the northern climes were much warmer then today...
thus a former ice patch was nenamed Greenland until the Vikings up and
left around 1200 due to the increasing cold due resulting in a climate
like today's.

Earth tilt, magnetic shifts, solar eruptions, undersea heat venting all have
primary roles in earth climate shifts. The earth has shifted back and forth from
glacial ball to steaming tropics on a regular basis.The piddling effect of man
(despite homo sapiens egocentricity) is an insignificant part of the mix.

The real problem of global warming isn't the relatively minor global warming
that may or may not occur over the next 50 -100 years but the massive
overpopulation (BBBillions of people) crowding the seacoasts and requiring
more and more arable land that will be put in jeopardy by rising oceans and
weather pattern changes.

The problem ain't global warming it is OVERPOPULATION.
flw

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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Re: [CTRL] Global Warming Much Worse Than Predicted

[lassey]

-Caveat Lector-

AMEN AMEN!!!

Sure feels like 'global warming' here in DC.
59 degrees at night, days in the 70s, no humidity. TOTALLY UNLIKE
the typical DC July.



On Sun, 15 Jul 2001 10:52:39 -0400 YnrChyldzWyld [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
 -Caveat Lector-

 On Sat, 14 Jul 2001, Steve wrote:
  Now the liberals would have us believe that these predictions
 were wrong, and
  that the earth is getting hotter. But they don't have any real
 proof of this
  warming tread. The limited data base of ocean temps taken by
 satillite don't
  show a warming tread.
 
 Get your facts straight, for once, Bill, (and Nakano).
 
 Ocean temperatures have increased significantly.

 What is being missed (or ignored) in all this rhetoric is the basic
 FACT
 that throughout the decades of the 1960s and 70s, global COOLING was
 the
 cause-du-jour of the scientific community and environmentalists, and
 all
 manner of supposedly verified scientific data was trotted out to
 'prove'
 that by th 1990s/2000s most of the world would be caught in the
 grips of
 a new ice age; indeed many popular books touted 'the coming ice
 age'...

 Then in the 1980s both the scientific community and
 environmentalists did
 a 180 degree turn, and started trotting out supposedly verified
 scientific data purporting to 'prove' that the earth was instead
 experiencing global WARMING and would be a sweltering greenhouse
 within a
 few decades?

 What happened to all the 'proof' of global COOLING that we were
 presented
 with in the prior 2 decades?  If the 'proof' of global cooling was
 either
 flawed or deliberately concocted, we should we be any more willing
 to
 accept the veracity of the supposed 'proof' we are now presented of
 supposed global WARMING...

 Both sides of the argument can trot out any number of scientific
 studies
 claiming to prove one side of the argument or the otherwhy
 should we
 believe one over the other?

 Look behind the smoke and mirrors to the men behind the curtain...


 June

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 propagandic
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 That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts,
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Re: [CTRL] Global Warming Much Worse Than Predicted

[Nakano Nakamura]

-Caveat Lector-

--- flw [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Earth tilt, magnetic shifts, solar eruptions,
 undersea heat venting all have primary roles in
 earth climate shifts. The earth has
 shifted back and forth from glacial ball to steaming
 tropics on a regular basis.The piddling effect of man
 (despite homo sapiens egocentricity) is an
 insignificant part of the mix.

Nakano comments:
Yes...earth tilt, magnetic shifts, solar eruptions.
And you can add to these a considerable list of
important things such as: variables in the earth's
orbital path and distance from the sun, and
volcanic activity.
Until very recently, man's presence on this planet
was a piddling and insignificant part of the mix.
But man is now manipulating the earth's ionosphere
and magnetosphere.  This is serious stuff!
This is much more than piddling.
We are dealing with vast forces and energies.
Much like the Sorcerer's Apprentice, we may not
have the knowledge and ability to control these
things.
The consequences could be catastrophic...or worse!

 Regards to All
   Nakano


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Re: [CTRL] Global Warming Much Worse Than Predicted

[Steve]

-Caveat Lector-

HAARP and other sources of weather modification are no doubt going on
and contributing to the instability of the planets ecosystem.

But the same can be said for the unprecedented release of greenhouse
gases coinciding with the industrial revolution and the greatly increased use
of fossil fuels, which are basically stored sources of carbon dioxide being
released into the atmosphere in ever-increasing quantities which is
unprecedented in the history of the Earth as far as we know.

So it is illogical to assume that the climate cycles will continue as before with
this most unnatural and unprecedented disturbance of Planet Earth.

Steve



On 15 Jul 01, at 20:31, Nakano Nakamura wrote:

 Nakano comments:
 Yes...earth tilt, magnetic shifts, solar eruptions.
 And you can add to these a considerable list of
 important things such as: variables in the earth's
 orbital path and distance from the sun, and
 volcanic activity.
 Until very recently, man's presence on this planet
 was a piddling and insignificant part of the mix.
 But man is now manipulating the earth's ionosphere
 and magnetosphere.  This is serious stuff!
 This is much more than piddling.
 We are dealing with vast forces and energies.
 Much like the Sorcerer's Apprentice, we may not
 have the knowledge and ability to control these
 things.
 The consequences could be catastrophic...or worse!

  Regards to All
Nakano



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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Re: [CTRL] Global Warming Much Worse Than Predicted

[Steve]

-Caveat Lector-

On 13 Jul 01, at 18:19, Bill Howard wrote:

 Now the liberals would have us believe that these predictions were wrong, and
 that the earth is getting hotter. But they don't have any real proof of this
 warming tread. The limited data base of ocean temps taken by satillite don't
 show a warming tread.

Get your facts straight, for once, Bill, (and Nakano).

Ocean temperatures have increased significantly.

http://www.enn.com/enn-news-archive/2000/03/03242000/wrldoc_11332.asp

The world ocean has experienced a net warming of 0.11 degrees Fahrenheit from the
sea surface through about 10,000 feet of depth over the past 35-45 years. The upper
1,000 feet has warmed by 0.56 degrees Fahrenheit.

Although these may seem like small changes, it represents a large change in the heat
content of the ocean, said Sydney Levitus, an oceanographer with the National
Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration. Water is very effective at absorbing
heat without undergoing much of a temperature change.

Surface temperatures have been increasing since 1880, based on this graph from
NOAA:

http://www.enn.com/enn-news-archive/2000/03/03242000/wrldoc_11332.asp

Steve


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Re: [CTRL] Global Warming Much Worse Than Predicted, Say Scientists

[Steve]

-Caveat Lector-

On 12 Jul 01, at 18:49, Nakano Nakamura wrote:

 The earth's climate is being intentionally modified.
 Some of our weather is being controlled.

This may be true but does not explain overall global warming.

If you do not believe that greenhouse gasses contribute to global warming, you are
extremely ignorant.

Steve


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Re: [CTRL] Global Warming Much Worse Than Predicted, Say Scientists

[Steve]

-Caveat Lector-

On 12 Jul 01, at 18:49, Nakano Nakamura wrote:

 It's just not the same human actions you are being
 told about in the alleged news media.
 The cause is NOT any of the following:
 freon propellant from hairspray cans
 freon from refrigerators or air conditioners

Freon causes depletion of the ozone layer, not global warming. Do your research
before making stupid pronouncements.

Steve



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Re: [CTRL] Global Warming Much Worse Than Predicted, Say Scientis ts

[Dale Stonehouse]

-Caveat Lector-

 -Original Message-
 From: Steve [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 1:34 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [CTRL] Global Warming Much Worse Than Predicted, Say
 Scientists

 Freon causes depletion of the ozone layer, not global
 warming. Do your research
 before making stupid pronouncements.

And yet, at least one brilliant scientist calls the scientific
establishment's party line that CFCs destroy the ozone layer the stupidest
thing I have ever heard. Instead, it is the burning of jet fuel by
commercial aircraft that causes the problem.

Doing research on any topic long enough and deep enough will find equally
convincing arguments on both sides of the issue. Most researchers only give
credence to evidence that supports their view; that is how the scientific
establishment approaches things.

I guess when the establishment supports a particular view they are right.
Someone offering a different viewpoint is not necessarily stupid and the
use of the word itself shows a tendency toward rigidity and intolerance of
other views. Then again, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

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Re: [CTRL] Global Warming Much Worse Than Predicted, Say Scientists

[YnrChyldzWyld]

-Caveat Lector-

From: Steve
 It's just not the same human actions you are being
 told about in the alleged news media.
 The cause is NOT any of the following:
 freon propellant from hairspray cans
 freon from refrigerators or air conditioners

Freon causes depletion of the ozone layer, not global warming. Do your
research
before making stupid pronouncements.

http://www.ec.gc.ca/ozone/protect/sect2_e
html#What%20is%20the%20ozone%20hole

Does ozone depletion cause global warming?
Ozone depletion and global warming are both mainly caused by changes in the
atmosphere due to human activities. Global warming is due to the build-up of
heat-trapping gases in the atmosphere and is not caused by ozone depletion.
Some chemicals which deplete ozone, such as CFCs and halons, also trap heat
in the atmosphere and contribute to global warming. However, ozone depletion
actually causes cooling in the upper atmosphere, and this may partially
offset the heat-trapping effect of some ozone-depleting substances. The net
result of the heating and cooling caused by ODSs is the subject of current
scientific investigation.

-
--


June

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Alternative Kite Radio (high-bandwidth)
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Re: [CTRL] Global Warming Much Worse Than Predicted

[Steve]

-Caveat Lector-

Does the incorrect prediction of *one activist* mean that all of the scientists are 
wrong?
No. Of course not.

This is the kind of flimsy evidence that the oil companies want you to believe, and
apparently William Bacon has fallen for the ploy.

Steve

On 13 Jul 01, at 7:04, William Bacon wrote:

 If present trends continue, the world will be about four
 degrees colder for the global mean temperature in 1990,
 but eleven degrees colder by the year 2000...This is
 about twice what it would take to put us in an ice age.
  -- Kenneth E.F. Watt on air pollution and global cooling,
  Earth Day 1970.


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Re: [CTRL] Global Warming Much Worse Than Predicted

[Bill Howard]

-Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 7/13/01 3:13:11 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 This is the kind of flimsy evidence that the oil companies want you to
believe, and
apparently William Bacon has fallen for the ploy.

Steve

On 13 Jul 01, at 7:04, William Bacon wrote:

 If present trends continue, the world will be about four
 degrees colder for the global mean temperature in 1990,
 but eleven degrees colder by the year 2000...This is
 about twice what it would take to put us in an ice age.
  -- Kenneth E.F. Watt on air pollution and global cooling,
  Earth Day 1970. 

Yup. I remember thiese dire predictions when I was in high school. Back when
we got our knowledge from books and lectures, and television was in black and
white.
Now the liberals would have us believe that these predictions were wrong, and
that the earth is getting hotter. But they don't have any real proof of this
warming tread. The limited data base of ocean temps taken by satillite don't
show a warming tread.

BHoward
An armed society is a polite society

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Re: [CTRL] Global Warming Much Worse Than Predicted, Say Scientis ts

[Nakano Nakamura]

-Caveat Lector-

--- Dale Stonehouse
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 -Original Message-
 From: Steve [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

 Freon causes depletion of the ozone layer, not
  global warming. Do your research before making
  stupid pronouncements.
_
Nakano comments:
It's unclear to me whether Dale or Steve made the
above statement about Freonbut the statement
is incorrect.
Freon does not cause depletion of the ozone layer.
It doesn't for the simple reason that there is
no Freon in the upper atmosphere.
This isn't what you have been told in the popular
media, but it's factual nonetheless.

There is a simple experiment you can perform to
test this for yourself.  A can of Freon isn't as
easily obtained as it was several years ago before
the government, the bribed scientists, and the
media hyped the bogus story about Freon destroying
the ozone layer.but you can still find a can
of Freon if you try.
Get some.
Put a valve on the can (the type used to add Freon
to an auto air conditioner).
Hold the can upright, so you don't release any
liquid Freon.
Nowfill an ordinary balloon with Freon gas.
You know how they put helium in balloons?
Same thing here.
Fill the balloon with Freon and then tie-off the
balloon so the gas can't escape.

Now you are ready for the experiment.

Release the balloon!

What happens?

The balloon will not soar like an eagle.
It won't even fly like a drunken turkey.
In fact, it will quickly fall to the ground.

Why?

Because Freon (and other related CFC's) are
5 times heavier than air.

FIVE TIMES HEAVIER THAN AIR!!!

If Freon is released into the air, the Freon
molecules will go to the ground and crawl into
the lowest hole available.

THERE IS NO FREON FLOATING AROUND 20 TO 40 MILES
HIGH IN THE SKY!

And since there is no Freon up there in the Ozone
Layer, it follows that the Ozone is not being
depleted by Freon.

 Regards to All
   Nakano



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[CTRL] Global Warming Much Worse Than Predicted, Say Scientists

[Steve]

-Caveat Lector-

  Global Warming Much Worse
  Than Predicted, Say Scientists
   The Independent - London
 http://news.independent.co.uk
   7-12-1

  Global warming is happening now, caused by human actions, and
  threatens the Earth with disaster, the world's leading 
atmospheric
  scientists insisted yesterday as politicians struggled to repair 
the
  Kyoto treaty on climate change which the United States torpedoed 
in
  March.

  A 2,000-page UN report on the science and potential impacts of
  climate change gave the most authoritative statement yet that the
  Earth is warming rapidly, that the main cause is industrial 
pollution,
  and that the consequences for human society are likely to be
  catastrophic.

  The report, from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change
  (IPCC), made up of several hundred of the world's most
  distinguished meteorologists, including many Americans, is a
  substantial slap in the face for US President George Bush, whose
  unilateral abrogation of Kyoto has thrown the international 
effort to
  counter global warming into chaos. It comes on the eve of first 
big
  meeting, held in Bonn next week, to try to repair the treaty.

  The president cited doubts about the science of climate change as
  the reason why he would not impose on the American economy the
  cuts in industrial gases which Kyoto requires and which the US
  signed up to at the original treaty agreement in 1997.

  But yesterday the IPCC scientists gave their unqualified support 
to
  the view that global warming is real. Furthermore, they said, 
since
  their last report was published six years ago, they found they 
had
  vastly underestimated the rate at which global temperatures are
  rising. They now believe they will rise by as much as 5.8C by the
  end of this century, almost twice the increase predicted in 
their 1995
  report.

  This is likely to lead to crop failures, water shortages, 
increased
  disease and disasters for towns and cities from flooding, 
landslides
  and sea storm surges, they believe, with the poor developing
  countries likely to be hit hardest. The crucial point that 
emerges from
  the report is that all these new stresses may be happening at the
  same time to a world already under great stain from massive
  population growth, poverty and pollution.

  As the massive three-volume study was published yesterday (by
  Britain's Cambridge University Press), politicians across the 
globe
  were scrambling to put some sort of deal together at next week's
  Bonn conference, which will be attended by ministers and 
officials
  from more than 150 nations.

  It is a resumption of the meeting on the Kyoto treaty which 
broke up
  acrimoniously in The Hague last November with a spectacular
  walk-out by Britain's Deputy Prime Minister John Prescott. But 
the
  argument then was over a technicality in the treaty and the
  Americans were still on board. Subsequently, Mr Bush has
  repudiated the treaty's basic principle that the industrialised
  countries should cut their greenhouse gas emissions and the
  chances of the Americans coming back on board are regarded as
  minimal.

  Bizarrely, the Americans will be present in Bonn as negotiators 
on a
  treaty they have said they will have nothing to do with, as they 
are
  signed-up parties to the UN Framework Convention on Climate
  Change.

  Diplomatic efforts were continuing yesterday to build alliances 
which
  might allow Kyoto to be repaired. Mr Prescott flew into Tokyo for
  meetings with the Japanese prime minister, Junichiro Koizumi, and
  his foreign and environment ministers, in an attempt to persuade 
the
  Japanese to join the European Union's 

Re: [CTRL] Global Warming Much Worse Than Predicted, Say Scientists

[Nakano Nakamura]

-Caveat Lector-

--- Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Global Warming Much Worse
Than Predicted, Say Scientists
TheIndependent - London  7-12-1

  Global warming is happening now, caused by human
  actions
__
Nakano comments:
Yes friends, it's true.
The warming and other strange anomalous weather
many areas are experiencing is being caused by
human actions.
It's just not the same human actions you are being
told about in the alleged news media.
The cause is NOT any of the following:
freon propellant from hairspray cans
freon from refrigerators or air conditioners
the burning of coal or oil
car exhaust emissions
the burning of the rain forest
nor is the cause cow farts, as Ronnie Reagan told us.

No, it's none of the above.
The earth's climate is being intentionally modified.
Some of our weather is being controlled.
The jet streams are being steered and manipulated
via the creation of artificial blocking high
pressure systems.

If this sounds unbelievable, may I suggest some
authoritative sources of information for you to
check this out.
A good place to start is the book
Angels Don't Play This HAARP by Dr. Nick Begich
Look up the patents of Dr. Bernard Eastlund.
(He had a website).
Go to the records of the Congressional Committee
hearings in which the U.S. Air Force and the Navy
told the committee they wanted money appropriated
to build HAARP. They clearly stated the purpose
of this technology...and I quote.
To control the ionosphere for military purposes.

And this is exactly what they are doing.
 Regards to All
   Nakano

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Re: [CTRL] Global Warming Much Worse Than Predicted, Say Scientists

[Nakano Nakamura]

-Caveat Lector-

--- Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Global Warming Much Worse
 Than Predicted, Say Scientists
 The Independent - London

 Global warming is happening now, caused by human
 actions, and threatens the Earth with disaster
__
Nakano comments:
Yes friends, it's true.
The warming and other strange anomalous weather
many areas are experiencing is being caused by
human actions.
It's just not the same human actions you are being
told about in the alleged news media.
The cause is NOT any of the following:
freon propellant from hairspray cans
freon from refrigerators or air conditioners
the burning of coal or oil
car exhaust emissions
the burning of the rain forest
nor is the cause cow farts, as Ronnie Reagan told us.

No, it's none of the above.
The earth's climate is being intentionally modified.
Some of our weather is being controlled.
The jet streams are being steered and manipulated
via the creation of artificial blocking high
pressure systems.

If this sounds unbelievable, may I suggest some
authoritative sources of information for you to
check this out.
A good place to start is the book
Angels Don't Play This HAARP by Dr. Nick Begich
Look up the patents of Dr. Bernard Eastlund.
(He had a website).
Go to the records of the Congressional Committee
hearings in which the U.S. Air Force and the Navy
told the committee they wanted money appropriated
to build HAARP. They clearly stated the purpose
of this technology...and I quote.
To control the ionosphere for military purposes.

And this is exactly what they are doing.
 Regards to All
   Nakano



__
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Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Re: [CTRL] Global Warming Much Worse Than Predicted, Say Scientists

[M.A. Johnson]

-Caveat Lector-

If present trends continue, the world will be about four
degrees colder for the global mean temperature in 1990,
but eleven degrees colder by the year 2000...This is
about twice what it would take to put us in an ice age.
 -- Kenneth E.F. Watt on air pollution and global cooling,
 Earth Day 1970.

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