Re: [CTRL] UN Vote Ominous For Israel
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 7/22/2004 1:51:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I still love you but you continue to be beyond my comprehension. My husband says the same thing. Oh well. Sorry Owl. We all have our conceptions of what Israel is, and I think Israel is top dog over there. I've never accepted the theory that Israel is our friend. I see a useful collaboration between two governments--well, useful to some anyway. The Palestinians are doomed. They just won't lay down and die in an accommodating manner. They haven't had to say "never again." They never gave over the first time. Prudy www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] UN Vote Ominous For Israel
-Caveat Lector- > I stay on this list because there is some interesting information to be culled from it, > but the anti-Jewish sentiment here scares the [EMAIL PROTECTED] out of me. Jews > continue to >be only 2% of the US population. And not all of those are smart or successful. >You'd think folks would feel secure in their overwhelming majority,. There are >probaby more Mexicans than Jews in the US. I supppose it is the bedrock of >human nature to need a scapegoat. Please stop the ethnic baiting. Most on this list oppose the aparthied racist policies of the extremist Zionists who currently run Israel - NOT Jews. Many Jews also oppose the racist Zionists, many ISRAELIS oppose them. Blaming the Palestinians because they refuse to pleasantly accept their dispossession and occupation and Israeli State Terrorism is like blaming the Jews for behaving badly in the death camps. Yes it probably is a part of human nature to often seek scapegoats - just as it is human nature for the oppressor to claim victimhood. flw www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] UN Vote Ominous For Israel
-Caveat Lector- Dearest Prudy-- I still love you but you continue to be beyond my comprehension. What you (and so many others on this list) seem to forget--or not register--is that Israel is about the size of Rhode Island. That it was an arid, uninviting spot and that settlers made a success of it there without a single oil well. They did indeed bring the desert to bloom. I am not sure of my facts but their population was about 20% Arab, I believe. These Arabs were allowed to go to university and to participate in the larger culture. There are many viewpoints in Israel and I do not know the percentage of right-wing fundamentalists but I don't think the majority is huge. Most Israeli Jews are not religious but secular Jews. (Secular humanists--the kind our president hates). I don't think they started out threatening to blast their neighbors off the map. On the other hand, the Palestinians, who surely do suffer and surely earn our sympathies, have done nothing but put their energies into violence,swearing not to rest until every last Israeli has been annihilated. While the Arab countries surrounding the Palestinians are vast, they have not chosen to absorb or develop the Palestinian energy to make the most of what they do have. The militance of Israel has been, to some extent, an effort to keep things impersonal, while the whole of the Palestinian energy is intensely personal--a rageful vendetta against another people that will go to the farthest extreme of suicide and martyrdom in an attempt to achieve it's purpose. It is truly self-destructive and will never succeed. If you keep doing the same thing over and over again, why should you be surprised to get the same results. What is going on now is the result of the suicide bombings. What will you do when the suicide bombers come to your local mall. Will you embrace their cause? In my way of thinking, even if they are right, they are wrong. Before the British took over, there were the Turks. Before that there was a history of 2000 years of violence, bloodshed, and confusion. For only 200 years in all its history was Palestine peaceful. Once under the Muslims and once under the Jews. Present day events are only a drop in the bloody pool of Israeli history--not an anomaly. As for politics, Israel is the only really secure foothold the US has in all the Middle East. No wonder we support it. They represent us in the Middle East. They are US authority such as we may never ever establish in Iraq. I stay on this list because there is some interesting information to be culled from it, but the anti-Jewish sentiment here scares the [EMAIL PROTECTED] out of me. Jews continue to be only 2% of the US population. And not all of those are smart or successful. You'd think folks would feel secure in their overwhelming majority,. There are probably more Mexicans than Jews in the US. I supppose it is the bedrock of human nature to need a scapegoat. On 22 Jul 2004 at 7:39, Prudy L wrote: > > -Caveat Lector- > In a message dated 7/21/2004 10:11:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] > writes: > He managed to transform the International > Court of Justice's sharp advisory opinion about Israel's separation fence into > an acrimonious resolution of the UN General Assembly, gaining another victory in > the Palestinians' diplomatic campaign against the fence. > > > Wouldn't it have been a good thing if the UN General Assembly had been around when > Hitler > started his shenanigans. We might have escaped the entire Holocaust thing > altogether. Prudy www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] UN Vote Ominous For Israel
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 7/21/2004 10:11:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: He managed to transform the InternationalCourt of Justice's sharp advisory opinion about Israel's separation fence intoan acrimonious resolution of the UN General Assembly, gaining another victory inthe Palestinians' diplomatic campaign against the fence. Wouldn't it have been a good thing if the UN General Assembly had been around when Hitler started his shenanigans. We might have escaped the entire Holocaust thing altogether. Prudy www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] UN Vote Ominous For Israel
-Caveat Lector- Haaretz News Updates Thu., July 22, 2004 Av 4, 5764 Israel Time: 02:15 (GMT+3) Analysis / An ominous bellwether By Aluf Benn, Haaretz Correspondent Nasser al-Kidwa, the Palestinian Ambassador to the UN, yesterday succeeded in killing two birds with one stone. He managed to transform the International Court of Justice's sharp advisory opinion about Israel's separation fence into an acrimonious resolution of the UN General Assembly, gaining another victory in the Palestinians' diplomatic campaign against the fence. He also managed to persuade the entire European Union to vote in favor of the resolution, thus furthering Israel's isolation in the international community and making its already complicated relations with Europe more strained. The huge majority which supported the resolution once again showed just how much international legitimization and support the Palestinians can count on. Israel may lock Yasser Arafat up in the Muqata in Ramallah, but behind the glass windows of the UN headquarters, there's a different picture. There Arafat holds sway while Israel is isolated in a corner with a small handful of friends - mainly the U.S. and Australia, which voted against the resolution, and Canada, which abstained. The UN resolution will not lead to the dismantling of the fence in the near future. There is also no intention - in the foreseeable future - of threatening Israel with economic or diplomatic sanctions. But the Foreign Ministry in Jerusalem can chalk up a painful diplomatic failure. "The advisory opinion was turned into an obligatory resolution," they said yesterday. There are three aspects of the resolution that are particularly worrisome to Israel. First is the demand that Israel comply with the opinion of the judges from The Hague that the occupation, the settlements, and the fence in the territories are all illegal, and with their demand to dismantle the "wall" and compensate the Palestinians. The second is the intention to set up a UN database on Palestinian properties damaged by building the fence. And the third is the call for a meeting of the signatories to the Geneva Conventions - a forum that does not bode well for Israel and spells further condemnation and isolation. The immediate implications of the resolution relate to Israel's ties with Europe. The 25 countries of the European Union, and a similar number that vote like it, constitute the strongest force in the General Assembly. The European vote is a also source of international legitimacy because it represents the developed nations. Al-Kidwa used his timeworn tactic of presenting an extreme draft which he moderated slightly to the taste of the Europeans. Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom used the telephone to persuade his European counterparts to vote against. Israel was particularly offended by Dutch Foreign Minister Bernard Bot, who used his influence as EU president to get a unanimous European vote instead of the split vote which Israel had hoped for until the last moment. European explanations of a "softened" version of the resolution were not received favorably in Jerusalem. When EU Foreign Minister Xavier Solana arrives here today, he is likely to find himself putting out the UN fire instead of working toward upgrading ties with Europe. Nevertheless, despite the disappointment and anger, Israel will not try to deepen the rift - after all, it will need European votes when the fence issue comes up for a new round in the UN in September. www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
