Re: [CTRL] Zionists DO NOT Represent Jews
-Caveat Lector- Can you please clarify the differences between the four sects of Judaism -- I am not sure my info is correct but I understand that the four sects are: 1) Hasidic, 2) Fundamentalists (aka Zionists) 3) Regular or Normal Jews (what are they known as to you?) and 4) Progressive Jews. I would like clarification about the differences in a general way. Thanks much for your input. E. Murry On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 12:06:40 -0800 Party of Citizens [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: -Caveat Lector- Jews, which is to say EDOMITE Jews, ie those who, in their arrogance call themselves The Jews, do not represent Zionists. The whole world is Jewish except for John KKKnight. Otherwise there are only different denominations of Jews. (Judaism is one. Denominations are many. - Jewish Almanac, 1980, p.504). Zandu Goldbar Learned Elder of Zion * http://www.geocities.com/CITIZENS_ASSEMBLY ** $$$ Capital punishment is not just penalty for poverty $$$ On Tue, 6 Jan 2004, William Shannon wrote: -Caveat Lector- http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/ ZIONISTS DO NOT REPRESENT JEWS JEWS AGAINST ZIONISM IN THE NEWS Washington Post, 5 October 2003 Read Open Letter to President George W. Bush (printable PDF Version of Letter to Pres. Bush) From the inception of the Zionist State and particularly in recent times, the impression has been created in the World that there is some connection between the State, which falsely calls itself Israel, and the Jewish people as a whole. Therefore, we who continue to uphold the never-changing tradition of the Jewish people find it proper to again clarify the following points: A Jew is one who remains faithful to the laws of the Jewish religion, that is, the Holy Torah and its commandments. The Jewish people became a people before they had their own land, and continued to exist as a people also after they went Into exile, because our very peoplehood is based exclusively on the Torah. The Holy Land was given to the Jewish people on the condition that they observe the Torah and its commandments. When they failed to do this, their sovereignty over the land was taken from them, and they went into exile. From that time, we are prohibited by the Torah with a very grave prohibition to establish a Jewish independent sovereignty in the Holy Land or anywhere throughout the world. Rather, we are obligated to be loyal to the nations under whose protection we dwell. This situation has existed for close to 2000 years when the Jewish people were dispersed throughout all corners of the world. During this time, the Jews always remained faithful to the country in which they lived. The Jewish people are grateful to all those merciful nations which have allowed them to observe Torah and the commandments undisturbed. From ancient times, the relations between the Jewish and Islamic peoples have always been those of peace and brotherhood, and friendship always reigned between them. The proof of this is the fact that for centuries, in all the Arab lands, hundreds of thousands of Jews lived in honor and amidst mutual esteem. Jews throughout all generations yearned to grace the sacred soil of the Holy Land and to live there. However, their sole purpose was to fulfill the commandments dependent upon the land and to absorb Its holiness. Never, G-d forbid, did they have any nationalist or sovereign intent whatsoever which, as mentioned above, is forbidden to us. Indeed, also here in the Holy Land, our fathers lived in neighborly harmony with the Palestinian residents of the land, helping one another, to mutual benefit. Until about two hundred years ago, the vast majority of Jews observed the Torah and the commandments in entirety. Jewry's leaders were Torah scholars, who directed the people according to the Torah. They were loyal citizens in the host nations where they dwelled and to the local laws. They prayed for the welfare of their respective governments. To our sorrow, at that time a small number of Jews slowly left their observance of Torah and commandments. Together with this, they began to deride the spiritual leadership of their people. This assimilation was the basis upon which, one hundred years ago, the ideology of Zionism was born. Its founders were assimilated Jews who had abandoned the Torah. Immediately at the founding of the Zionist movement, masses of Jews under the leadership of their Rabbis, launched a heavy battle against Zionism. Their attack was directed not only at the non-religious Zionist idea, but rather, primarily at its opposition to the Torah-ordained path that Jewry must follow while in exile. As such, the Zionists incited the nations of the world, demanding political sovereignty over the Holy Land while remaining oblivious to the
Re: [CTRL] Zionists DO NOT Represent Jews
-Caveat Lector- For sanity's sake, why would you turn to Shannon to tell you about Jews when you can call the nearest synagogue or go on line and ask your questions at many sites. Life is complicated. Simplistic views come from simplistic people. What all Jews have in common is a long history and that's about it. Like a tree, there are many branches and the shoots of branches veer off and then cross each other. A family who for many generations follows the secular only line may have children who jump off and go to the Orthodox branch or to the Conservative branch for example. Families who are Orthodox for many generations may find themselves with a child who goes off and lands on another branch. Many Jews intermarry, thinking the religious part is superfluous, but then their children may search for their roots and start studying the religious aspect. People who are Conservative may take the Jewish religion more seriously than someone who is born Orthodox but takes it for granted. The complexity of the Jewish community can be overwhelming from the outside. When seen from the inside, from someone who is Jewish, each one thinks they know what Judaism is about, and of course it always corrolates with what that person believes. How many branches of Orthodox Judaism do you think there are? The best way to understand Jews is to start by checking out how many different political parties there are in Israel. http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/Politics/partytoc.html. Some are tiny. Some are larger. Many get together to form coalitions. The number of different parties in such a small country shows the fiercely independent character of Jews. Some are secular. Some are religious. Some are a combination. It makes our Democrats vs Republicans system here in the US seem like mind-controlled zombies. This fiercely independent nature of Jews is why the one-worlders want to do away with the Jews. It's why the European Union under Solana fights Israel. I looked to the Jews against Zionism website and found they were just a small sect. Someone has expanded their image via the internet. From what I know, they may not know how their image has been expanded by someone on the inside of their movement in that they are not people who spend much time on the internet. -Original Message- From: Conspiracy Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of E. Murray Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 2:22 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] Zionists DO NOT Represent Jews -Caveat Lector- Can you please clarify the differences between the four sects of Judaism -- I am not sure my info is correct but I understand that the four sects are: 1) Hasidic, 2) Fundamentalists (aka Zionists) 3) Regular or Normal Jews (what are they known as to you?) and 4) Progressive Jews. I would like clarification about the differences in a general way. Thanks much for your input. E. Murry On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 12:06:40 -0800 Party of Citizens [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: -Caveat Lector- Jews, which is to say EDOMITE Jews, ie those who, in their arrogance call themselves The Jews, do not represent Zionists. The whole world is Jewish except for John KKKnight. Otherwise there are only different denominations of Jews. (Judaism is one. Denominations are many. - Jewish Almanac, 1980, p.504). Zandu Goldbar Learned Elder of Zion * http://www.geocities.com/CITIZENS_ASSEMBLY ** $$$ Capital punishment is not just penalty for poverty $$$ On Tue, 6 Jan 2004, William Shannon wrote: -Caveat Lector- http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/ ZIONISTS DO NOT REPRESENT JEWS JEWS AGAINST ZIONISM IN THE NEWS Washington Post, 5 October 2003 Read Open Letter to President George W. Bush (printable PDF Version of Letter to Pres. Bush) From the inception of the Zionist State and particularly in recent times, the impression has been created in the World that there is some connection between the State, which falsely calls itself Israel, and the Jewish people as a whole. Therefore, we who continue to uphold the never-changing tradition of the Jewish people find it proper to again clarify the following points: A Jew is one who remains faithful to the laws of the Jewish religion, that is, the Holy Torah and its commandments. The Jewish people became a people before they had their own land, and continued to exist as a people also after they went Into exile, because our very peoplehood is based exclusively on the Torah. The Holy Land was given to the Jewish people on the condition that they observe the Torah and its commandments. When they failed to do this, their sovereignty over the land was taken from them, and they went into exile. From that time, we are prohibited by the Torah with a very grave prohibition to establish a Jewish independent sovereignty in the Holy Land or anywhere throughout
Re: [CTRL] Zionists DO NOT Represent Jews
-Caveat Lector- thers that word again tell me shannon why its calld anti-semite and not anti-jewish? On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 15:12, you wrote: -Caveat Lector- For sanity's sake, why would you turn to Shannon to tell you about Jews when you can call the nearest synagogue or go on line and ask your questions at many sites. Life is complicated. Simplistic views come from simplistic people. What all Jews have in common is a long history and that's about it. Like a tree, there are many branches and the shoots of branches veer off and then cross each other. A family who for many generations follows the secular only line may have children who jump off and go to the Orthodox branch or to the Conservative branch for example. Families who are Orthodox for many generations may find themselves with a child who goes off and lands on another branch. Many Jews intermarry, thinking the religious part is superfluous, but then their children may search for their roots and start studying the religious aspect. People who are Conservative may take the Jewish religion more seriously than someone who is born Orthodox but takes it for granted. The complexity of the Jewish community can be overwhelming from the outside. When seen from the inside, from someone who is Jewish, each one thinks they know what Judaism is about, and of course it always corrolates with what that person believes. How many branches of Orthodox Judaism do you think there are? The best way to understand Jews is to start by checking out how many different political parties there are in Israel. http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/Politics/partytoc.html. Some are tiny. Some are larger. Many get together to form coalitions. The number of different parties in such a small country shows the fiercely independent character of Jews. Some are secular. Some are religious. Some are a combination. It makes our Democrats vs Republicans system here in the US seem like mind-controlled zombies. This fiercely independent nature of Jews is why the one-worlders want to do away with the Jews. It's why the European Union under Solana fights Israel. I looked to the Jews against Zionism website and found they were just a small sect. Someone has expanded their image via the internet. From what I know, they may not know how their image has been expanded by someone on the inside of their movement in that they are not people who spend much time on the internet. -Original Message- From: Conspiracy Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of E. Murray Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 2:22 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] Zionists DO NOT Represent Jews -Caveat Lector- Can you please clarify the differences between the four sects of Judaism -- I am not sure my info is correct but I understand that the four sects are: 1) Hasidic, 2) Fundamentalists (aka Zionists) 3) Regular or Normal Jews (what are they known as to you?) and 4) Progressive Jews. I would like clarification about the differences in a general way. Thanks much for your input. E. Murry On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 12:06:40 -0800 Party of Citizens [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: -Caveat Lector- Jews, which is to say EDOMITE Jews, ie those who, in their arrogance call themselves The Jews, do not represent Zionists. The whole world is Jewish except for John KKKnight. Otherwise there are only different denominations of Jews. (Judaism is one. Denominations are many. - Jewish Almanac, 1980, p.504). Zandu Goldbar Learned Elder of Zion * http://www.geocities.com/CITIZENS_ASSEMBLY ** $$$ Capital punishment is not just penalty for poverty $$$ On Tue, 6 Jan 2004, William Shannon wrote: -Caveat Lector- http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/ ZIONISTS DO NOT REPRESENT JEWS JEWS AGAINST ZIONISM IN THE NEWS Washington Post, 5 October 2003 Read Open Letter to President George W. Bush (printable PDF Version of Letter to Pres. Bush) From the inception of the Zionist State and particularly in recent times, the impression has been created in the World that there is some connection between the State, which falsely calls itself Israel, and the Jewish people as a whole. Therefore, we who continue to uphold the never-changing tradition of the Jewish people find it proper to again clarify the following points: A Jew is one who remains faithful to the laws of the Jewish religion, that is, the Holy Torah and its commandments. The Jewish people became a people before they had their own land, and continued to exist as a people also after they went Into exile, because our very peoplehood is based exclusively on the Torah. The Holy Land was given to the Jewish people on the condition that they observe the Torah and its commandments
Re: [CTRL] Zionists DO NOT Represent Jews
-Caveat Lector- There is no mention of Sharon in my email at all. I do not know really his steam or views. A self-avowed Progressive Jewish woman I was in graduate school with in the late 70s from Manhattan told me there were officially four sects of Jews and she told me what they were known as. I realize from your email that you see there are the 1) Secular Jews (aka the Regular ones?), 2) Orthodox Jews (Hasidics?), 3) Conservative Jews (aka Fundamentalists? and often considered politically as Zionists), and last, 4) ?? I suppose the Progressive Jews (known as Progressives). I also realize that, according to R. Falk, a Middle Eastern scholar, Jews do not necessarily get along amongst themselves -- there are great divisions amongst the sects and that they do intermarry among the sects, as well as the Progressives often attempt to marry Protestants whenever possible, the Seculars do some things a bit different often. Humans are all complex and made of different blood, DNA, certainly even within all races...but thanks for clarifying these frequently misunderstood terms some. E. Murray On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 22:12:55 -0600 Zuukie [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: -Caveat Lector- For sanity's sake, why would you turn to Shannon to tell you about Jews when you can call the nearest synagogue or go on line and ask your questions at many sites. Life is complicated. Simplistic views come from simplistic people. What all Jews have in common is a long history and that's about it. Like a tree, there are many branches and the shoots of branches veer off and then cross each other. A family who for many generations follows the secular only line may have children who jump off and go to the Orthodox branch or to the Conservative branch for example. Families who are Orthodox for many generations may find themselves with a child who goes off and lands on another branch. Many Jews intermarry, thinking the religious part is superfluous, but then their children may search for their roots and start studying the religious aspect. People who are Conservative may take the Jewish religion more seriously than someone who is born Orthodox but takes it for granted. The complexity of the Jewish community can be overwhelming from the outside. When seen from the inside, from someone who is Jewish, each one thinks they know what Judaism is about, and of course it always corrolates with what that person believes. How many branches of Orthodox Judaism do you think there are? The best way to understand Jews is to start by checking out how many different political parties there are in Israel. http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/Politics/partytoc.html. Some are tiny. Some are larger. Many get together to form coalitions. The number of different parties in such a small country shows the fiercely independent character of Jews. Some are secular. Some are religious. Some are a combination. It makes our Democrats vs Republicans system here in the US seem like mind-controlled zombies. This fiercely independent nature of Jews is why the one-worlders want to do away with the Jews. It's why the European Union under Solana fights Israel. I looked to the Jews against Zionism website and found they were just a small sect. Someone has expanded their image via the internet. From what I know, they may not know how their image has been expanded by someone on the inside of their movement in that they are not people who spend much time on the internet. -Original Message- From: Conspiracy Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of E. Murray Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 2:22 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] Zionists DO NOT Represent Jews -Caveat Lector- Can you please clarify the differences between the four sects of Judaism -- I am not sure my info is correct but I understand that the four sects are: 1) Hasidic, 2) Fundamentalists (aka Zionists) 3) Regular or Normal Jews (what are they known as to you?) and 4) Progressive Jews. I would like clarification about the differences in a general way. Thanks much for your input. E. Murry On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 12:06:40 -0800 Party of Citizens [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: -Caveat Lector- Jews, which is to say EDOMITE Jews, ie those who, in their arrogance call themselves The Jews, do not represent Zionists. The whole world is Jewish except for John KKKnight. Otherwise there are only different denominations of Jews. (Judaism is one. Denominations are many. - Jewish Almanac, 1980, p.504). Zandu Goldbar Learned Elder of Zion * http://www.geocities.com/CITIZENS_ASSEMBLY ** $$$ Capital punishment is not just penalty for poverty $$$ On Tue, 6 Jan 2004, William Shannon wrote: -Caveat Lector- http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/ ZIONISTS DO NOT REPRESENT JEWS JEWS AGAINST ZIONISM IN THE NEWS
Re: [CTRL] Zionists DO NOT Represent Jews
-Caveat Lector- Jews, which is to say EDOMITE Jews, ie those who, in their arrogance call themselves The Jews, do not represent Zionists. The whole world is Jewish except for John KKKnight. Otherwise there are only different denominations of Jews. (Judaism is one. Denominations are many. - Jewish Almanac, 1980, p.504). Zandu Goldbar Learned Elder of Zion * http://www.geocities.com/CITIZENS_ASSEMBLY ** $$$ Capital punishment is not just penalty for poverty$$$ On Tue, 6 Jan 2004, William Shannon wrote: -Caveat Lector- http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/ ZIONISTS DO NOT REPRESENT JEWS JEWS AGAINST ZIONISM IN THE NEWS Washington Post, 5 October 2003 Read Open Letter to President George W. Bush (printable PDF Version of Letter to Pres. Bush) From the inception of the Zionist State and particularly in recent times, the impression has been created in the World that there is some connection between the State, which falsely calls itself Israel, and the Jewish people as a whole. Therefore, we who continue to uphold the never-changing tradition of the Jewish people find it proper to again clarify the following points: A Jew is one who remains faithful to the laws of the Jewish religion, that is, the Holy Torah and its commandments. The Jewish people became a people before they had their own land, and continued to exist as a people also after they went Into exile, because our very peoplehood is based exclusively on the Torah. The Holy Land was given to the Jewish people on the condition that they observe the Torah and its commandments. When they failed to do this, their sovereignty over the land was taken from them, and they went into exile. From that time, we are prohibited by the Torah with a very grave prohibition to establish a Jewish independent sovereignty in the Holy Land or anywhere throughout the world. Rather, we are obligated to be loyal to the nations under whose protection we dwell. This situation has existed for close to 2000 years when the Jewish people were dispersed throughout all corners of the world. During this time, the Jews always remained faithful to the country in which they lived. The Jewish people are grateful to all those merciful nations which have allowed them to observe Torah and the commandments undisturbed. From ancient times, the relations between the Jewish and Islamic peoples have always been those of peace and brotherhood, and friendship always reigned between them. The proof of this is the fact that for centuries, in all the Arab lands, hundreds of thousands of Jews lived in honor and amidst mutual esteem. Jews throughout all generations yearned to grace the sacred soil of the Holy Land and to live there. However, their sole purpose was to fulfill the commandments dependent upon the land and to absorb Its holiness. Never, G-d forbid, did they have any nationalist or sovereign intent whatsoever which, as mentioned above, is forbidden to us. Indeed, also here in the Holy Land, our fathers lived in neighborly harmony with the Palestinian residents of the land, helping one another, to mutual benefit. Until about two hundred years ago, the vast majority of Jews observed the Torah and the commandments in entirety. Jewry's leaders were Torah scholars, who directed the people according to the Torah. They were loyal citizens in the host nations where they dwelled and to the local laws. They prayed for the welfare of their respective governments. To our sorrow, at that time a small number of Jews slowly left their observance of Torah and commandments. Together with this, they began to deride the spiritual leadership of their people. This assimilation was the basis upon which, one hundred years ago, the ideology of Zionism was born. Its founders were assimilated Jews who had abandoned the Torah. Immediately at the founding of the Zionist movement, masses of Jews under the leadership of their Rabbis, launched a heavy battle against Zionism. Their attack was directed not only at the non-religious Zionist idea, but rather, primarily at its opposition to the Torah-ordained path that Jewry must follow while in exile. As such, the Zionists incited the nations of the world, demanding political sovereignty over the Holy Land while remaining oblivious to the resentment this would arouse In the Palestinian Arabs, the land's veteran inhabitants. As stated, the leaders of Orthodox Jewry vehemently opposed the movement with all force. The Zionists refused to heed the voice of the Rabbis and Torah authority. They persisted in their ways until they succeeded in influencing the British government to issue the Balfour Declaration concerning the establishment of a national home for the Jews in the land of Israel. To our great sorrow, from that point on began the deterioration of the good relations between the Jews and the Arab inhabitants of the land. This occurred because the
[CTRL] Zionists DO NOT Represent Jews
-Caveat Lector- http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/ ZIONISTS DO NOT REPRESENT JEWS JEWS AGAINST ZIONISM IN THE NEWS Washington Post, 5 October 2003 Read Open Letter to President George W. Bush (printable PDF Version of Letter to Pres. Bush) >From the inception of the Zionist State and particularly in recent times, the impression has been created in the World that there is some connection between the State, which falsely calls itself Israel, and the Jewish people as a whole. Therefore, we who continue to uphold the never-changing tradition of the Jewish people find it proper to again clarify the following points: A Jew is one who remains faithful to the laws of the Jewish religion, that is, the Holy Torah and its commandments. The Jewish people became a people before they had their own land, and continued to exist as a people also after they went Into exile, because our very peoplehood is based exclusively on the Torah. The Holy Land was given to the Jewish people on the condition that they observe the Torah and its commandments. When they failed to do this, their sovereignty over the land was taken from them, and they went into exile. From that time, we are prohibited by the Torah with a very grave prohibition to establish a Jewish independent sovereignty in the Holy Land or anywhere throughout the world. Rather, we are obligated to be loyal to the nations under whose protection we dwell. This situation has existed for close to 2000 years when the Jewish people were dispersed throughout all corners of the world. During this time, the Jews always remained faithful to the country in which they lived. The Jewish people are grateful to all those merciful nations which have allowed them to observe Torah and the commandments undisturbed. >From ancient times, the relations between the Jewish and Islamic peoples have always been those of peace and brotherhood, and friendship always reigned between them. The proof of this is the fact that for centuries, in all the Arab lands, hundreds of thousands of Jews lived in honor and amidst mutual esteem. Jews throughout all generations yearned to grace the sacred soil of the Holy Land and to live there. However, their sole purpose was to fulfill the commandments dependent upon the land and to absorb Its holiness. Never, G-d forbid, did they have any nationalist or sovereign intent whatsoever which, as mentioned above, is forbidden to us. Indeed, also here in the Holy Land, our fathers lived in neighborly harmony with the Palestinian residents of the land, helping one another, to mutual benefit. Until about two hundred years ago, the vast majority of Jews observed the Torah and the commandments in entirety. Jewry's leaders were Torah scholars, who directed the people according to the Torah. They were loyal citizens in the host nations where they dwelled and to the local laws. They prayed for the welfare of their respective governments. To our sorrow, at that time a small number of Jews slowly left their observance of Torah and commandments. Together with this, they began to deride the spiritual leadership of their people. This assimilation was the basis upon which, one hundred years ago, the ideology of Zionism was born. Its founders were assimilated Jews who had abandoned the Torah. Immediately at the founding of the Zionist movement, masses of Jews under the leadership of their Rabbis, launched a heavy battle against Zionism. Their attack was directed not only at the non-religious Zionist idea, but rather, primarily at its opposition to the Torah-ordained path that Jewry must follow while in exile. As such, the Zionists incited the nations of the world, demanding political sovereignty over the Holy Land while remaining oblivious to the resentment this would arouse In the Palestinian Arabs, the land's veteran inhabitants. As stated, the leaders of Orthodox Jewry vehemently opposed the movement with all force. The Zionists refused to heed the voice of the Rabbis and Torah authority. They persisted in their ways until they succeeded in influencing the British government to issue the Balfour Declaration concerning the "establishment of a national home for the Jews in the land of Israel." To our great sorrow, from that point on began the deterioration of the good relations between the Jews and the Arab inhabitants of the land. This occurred because the Arab people understood that the Zionists wished to seize rulership from them. In addition, the Arab people had suspicions as if the Jewish people wished to seize control of the Temple Mount and other similar sites. Matters worsened as a result. The Jewish leadership of that time saw it as proper to clarify before the Arab leaders that the Torah-true Jews had no desire whatsoever for sovereignty, and that our desire was to continue to live in peace with the Arabs, as we had always done. The leader of the G-d-fearing Jewish community at that time,
