Re: [CTRL] Sovereignty
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 07/10/1999 5:33:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a message dated 99-07-08 18:13:36 EDT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Rights have meaning only if there is a remedy for their violation. The Supreme Court's deecisions mean that there is no remedy against state governments even when they violate rights created by federal law. The Bill of Rights is a FEDERAL document, is it not? Kiss your rights goodbye ... Let's hear it for devolution --dis-integration-- here in the newly dis-United States. I see you've been studying the latest decisions of the Rehnquist Court. I hate to say it, but I think what you say is truer than I would like it to be. And just think, the Reagan/Bush Supreme Court has years to go before anyone is likely to die or retire. Wait until they've had another couple of years to accomplish their ends. Prudy DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Sovereignty
-Caveat Lector- They are al working toward the same goal and following the same guide book. It does not matter at all who is sitting on the court nor who appointed them. The fact that Clinton has all but endorsed GWBushJr should speak volumes. The game plan is put into play when the laws are originally enacted by "our" legislators. When have we seen a truly surprising ruling by the supreme court? I have not been surprised in recent memory. Amelia - Original Message - From: Prudence L. Kuhn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 11, 1999 1:59 PM Subject: Re: [CTRL] Sovereignty -Caveat Lector- In a message dated 07/10/1999 5:33:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a message dated 99-07-08 18:13:36 EDT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Rights have meaning only if there is a remedy for their violation. The Supreme Court's deecisions mean that there is no remedy against state governments even when they violate rights created by federal law. The Bill of Rights is a FEDERAL document, is it not? Kiss your rights goodbye ... Let's hear it for devolution --dis-integration-- here in the newly dis-United States. I see you've been studying the latest decisions of the Rehnquist Court. I hate to say it, but I think what you say is truer than I would like it to be. And just think, the Reagan/Bush Supreme Court has years to go before anyone is likely to die or retire. Wait until they've had another couple of years to accomplish their ends. Prudy DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Sovereignty
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 99-07-08 18:13:36 EDT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Rights have meaning only if there is a remedy for their violation. The Supreme Court's deecisions mean that there is no remedy against state governments even when they violate rights created by federal law. The Bill of Rights is a FEDERAL document, is it not? Kiss your rights goodbye ... Let's hear it for devolution --dis-integration-- here in the newly dis-United States. So now we can "constitutionally" have states in which freedom of speech is punished, slavery is re-instituted, women are reduced to non-voting masculine "property," and legal protections are limited to "citizens," redefined perhaps as the very wealthy -- or in which a homosexual orientation is required in order to obtain employment, or pedophilia is institutionalized in the school system -- or in which candidacy for FEDERAL political office (senators, congressmen) is restricted to Moonies, Scientologists, Klansmen, tree-worshippers, or whatever, thus altering the balance of our NATIONAL legislature... What is there to prevent legal argument that municipal governments (cities or towns) now also have the right to enact legislation that violates federal AND state law? That "sovereign individuals" may likewise violate municipal, state, and federal laws, in the ultimate application of this peculiar principle, "sovereign immunity" from prosecution? A return to the Hobbesian version of "natural law" -- "The war of EACH against ALL." DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Sovereignty
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 07/08/1999 1:00:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Both the Ninth and 10th Amendments are held in the deepest contempt and disrespect by the White House, Congress and the Supreme Court. Why? Because these amendments were written to protect against consolidation of power by the federal government. Dismissal of the Ninth and 10th Amendments allows Congress to control our schools, mandate speed limits, and require employment and college admissions quotas, as well as other forms of Washington tyranny. Today, little states can do nothing without Washington's permission. That was not the Framers' vision. Don't worry about the Framers' vision. The Rehnquist Court has obliterated federal law and anything Congress has to say. It happened just a couple of weeks ago. Your side is winning. Well except for the 6th amendment. They gave that the boot too. Prudy DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Sovereignty
-Caveat Lector- Don't worry about the Framers' vision. The Rehnquist Court has obliterated federal law and anything Congress has to say. It happened just a couple of weeks ago. Your side is winning. Well except for the 6th amendment. They gave that the boot too. Prudy Prudy, Could you give a link or post the ruling you are talking about? If you posted it to the list I must have missed it. Thanks! === Jeff Russo [EMAIL PROTECTED] - "The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those who have not got it." -- George Bernard Shaw _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Sovereignty
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 07/08/1999 5:33:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Don't worry about the Framers' vision. The Rehnquist Court has obliterated federal law and anything Congress has to say. It happened just a couple of weeks ago. Your side is winning. Well except for the 6th amendment. They gave that the boot too. Prudy Prudy, Could you give a link or post the ruling you are talking about? If you posted it to the list I must have missed it. Thanks! Well, I'll give you part of one story that ran in my very conservative daily paper. It surprised me tht they ran it. The original column was "Rightwing Supreme Court Busy Protecting Rights - but States Rights, not Your Rights." It was written for the LA Times by Erwin Chemerinsky, Professor of Law and Political Science at University of Southern California. There was a follow up the next day by Edward P. Lazarus, author of "Closed Chambers: The Rise, Fall and Future of the Modern Supreme Court. That was also done for the LA Times. I quote from Chermerinsky: In a startling series of decisions, the US Supreme Court has radically changed American government. For 2l2 years of American history, people have been able to sue state governments when a state violates federal laws and inflicts injuries. However last Wednesday, the Supreme Court ruled tht state governments generally cannot be sued in any court without their consent. The result is that state governments can violate federal law with impunity and nowhere be held accountable. The decisions are the height of conservative judicial activism. The five most conservative justices - William H. Rehnquist, Sandra Day O'Connor, Antonin Scalia, Anthony M. Kennedy, and Clarence Thomas - invented new rights for state governments at the expense of individuals. One of the cases involved a probation officer in Maine who was owed overtime pay by the state government under the federal Fair Labor Standards Act. The court ruled that the state government's sovereigh immunity meant that it could be sued in neither federal nor state court, even if the person suing had a right to the money. Another case involved a Florida investment method that allowed students to set aside funds to pay for college education. A company that developed the system sued Florida for infringement. The Supreme Court ruled that the state could not be sued in federal court, even if it had violated the company's rights. Because federal law precludes state courts from hearing patent cases and because in the Maine case the court held that state governments can't be sued in state courts without their consent, Florida now could profit greatly from violating the private company's patent and trademark, and there's nothing the company can do about it. The cases have huge implications. A state laboratory could dump toxic wastes in violation of federal laws, and those who become ill would have no recourse against the state in any court. A state university could violate copyright laws by making copies of a book and selling it to students at a few dollars less than its usual price, profiting at the expense of the publisher and author. States could ignore patent laws, violating the rights of inventors and patent holders, and no court will be able to grant relief. The Supreme Court based its ruling on its desire to protect federalism and state sovereignty. Yet in doing so, the court subverted the most basic constitutional principle of federalism: the supremacy of federal law. Article VI of the Constitution mandates that federal law is supreme over the states, and that state judges must obey federal law. The effect of Wednesday's decision iis that state governmets now can ignore federal law, and no court will be available to enforce it. The court also proclaimed tht states have a "right" to be free from lawsuits without their consent, even thought this right is nowhere to be found in the Constitution. The only provision dealing with the issue, the llth Amendment says tht a state cannot be sued in federal court by citizens of other states. There is no provision that limits the ability to sue a state in state court or that prevents a state from being sued in federal court by its own citizens. The high court simply invented a new right for state governments. Moreover, the court treated safeguarding state governments as the ultimate goal and left individuals - who are owed overtime pay, who own patents- with nowhere to turn for relief. (There is more here, but I'll wind up withthe last paragraph. Rights have meaning only if there is a remedy for their violation. The Supreme Court's deecisions mean that there is no remedy against state governments even when they violate rights created by federal law. In a breathtaking exercise of judicial activism, the court has subverted th superemacy of federal law and left countless individuals without recourse. End of Chemerinsky story. Lazarus
