[CTRL] Fw: Re: [CTRL] Status of the United States Navy
-Caveat Lector- Well, there you have it Andrew! Just don't breathe (INhale anyway) and everything will be fine! grimace! Why in the world would they have to use this stuff for practice? It seems that using it in war would be illegal even but for practice??? I do not understand this Is it old and they want to use it up and get rid of it? Is this now standard operating procedure? I do not blame the Scottish people for being angry and think this should be stopped. But then, no one consulted me and our govt doesn't really care what we the tiny people think. They just work all this out among themselves. Amelia - Original Message - From: "Prudence L. Kuhn" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 24, 1999 12:26 PM Subject: Re: [CTRL] Status of the United States Navy -Caveat Lector- In a message dated 12/24/1999 4:58:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Andrew, Do you know why they are there? Is their presence routine or is this a first? In any case, I cannot imagine why they should be "firing" anything! Some of the large vessels are capable of generating huge amounts of electricity, enough for a small city. Could their presence be related to this with the date change approaching? That still does not address the DU activity but might explain what they are doing there in the first place. Of course with the huge popularity that this country enjoys (ha!) as evidenced by the ever increasing terrorists threats, maybe it is "any port in a storm." All clustered in a group, they make an inviting target for enemies, a la Pearl Harbor. Maybe you could go to the press for some coverage and get this DU activity stopped! Amelia The odd habits of the US Navy came up on another listing. Someone came on as very angry with the Puerto Ricans because they didn't want the Navy to practice their shooting there, and even angrier because President Clinton had awarded them a rather small cash settlement for the damage done. I posted the following: I am not an expert on Vieques either, but I remembered reading a column about it, and I have found it. I won't try to give all the info, but this matrial was written by Anthony M. Stevens-Arroyo, formerly vice chairman of the NY State Committee for the US Commission on Civil Rights. He is professor of Puerto Rican and Latino Studies at Brooklyn College. In it he describes an incident on l8 April in which an F-l8 Navy jet from the USS John F. Kennedy missed its target and launched a bomb that killed one Puerto Rican civilian and seriously injured four others. Vieques is less than 2l miles long and five miles wide. Its population is fewer than l0,000 and the Navy occupies 75% of its 33,000 acres, pushing the natives into a six-mile strip at one corner. Since l94l when it took the land, the US has engaged in shooting live ammunition at targets on an inhabited island. Not only are the local people at risk from mistakes, but the practice of warplane strafing destroys the livelihood of the local fishermen. Vieques has experienced fatal accidents before, and the Navy has practiced landings on its beaches. The Navy refuses to declare whether nuclear weapons are stored on Viequest, but in a public statement issued May 27, the Navy admitted it used radiation-dangerous bullets in maneuvers. It has now acknowledged that on Feb l9, it fired 263 armor-piercing shells with depleted uranium. The Navy claims there is no danger of radiation poisoning unless the depleted uranium is inhaled. The Puerto Rico Health Department found that between l985 and l989, the population of Vieques had an incidence of throat and pharynx cancer much greater than the rest of Puerto Rico. Before the l980's, Vieques rsidents suffered fewer cancer cases than the rest of Puerto Rico. One environmentalist said that a particle one-quarter the diameter of a human hair--small enough to be lodged in a lung--emits 800 times the amount of radiation that could be tolerated during an entire year. Each of the 25mm shells fired by the Navy over Vieques contain a third of a pound of depleted uranium--meaning almost 90 pounds of the material was used. End of material taken from the article. In a 4 December article in the New York Times, it was announced that the Navy would stop bombing practice on Vieques and move its operations to Scotland. I wonder how the Scots feel about that. I'm sure Mr. Blair must have decided it was just fine, but then he doesn't live in Scotland. Prudy DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout th
Re: [CTRL] Status of the United States Navy
-Caveat Lector- the Scots have taken 'the Kings Shilling' and been shafted left right and centre both by the English and the treacherous 'Parcel of Rogues' - however don't 'tar us all with the one brush' as they say. I just wanted to see where ye stood, laddie. There's no surer way to tell a man's temperment than to poke him with a stick a bit and see what he does. You've done well. I was afraid you might get defensive on us or something. But no, you've told the truth. Good for you. And a sad and bitter truth it is. Shafted is the word alright. "Bought and sold for English gold." To only call the parcel "rogues" is charitable indeed. Just to how I'm no bigot I want to recommend a fine Scottish publishing house: AK PRESS 22 LUTTON PLACE EDINBURGH, SCOTLAND 8HE 9PE Tell them a friend of Ramsay's sent you. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Status of the United States Navy
-Caveat Lector- Andrew, Do you know why they are there? Is their presence routine or is this a first? In any case, I cannot imagine why they should be "firing" anything! Some of the large vessels are capable of generating huge amounts of electricity, enough for a small city. Could their presence be related to this with the date change approaching? That still does not address the DU activity but might explain what they are doing there in the first place. Of course with the huge popularity that this country enjoys (ha!) as evidenced by the ever increasing terrorists threats, maybe it is "any port in a storm." All clustered in a group, they make an inviting target for enemies, a la Pearl Harbor. Maybe you could go to the press for some coverage and get this DU activity stopped! Amelia DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Status of the United States Navy
-Caveat Lector- can someone not tell these assholes to mess up their own countryside ??? Excue me, but coming from a British subject, this sounds WAY out of line. At least to me, it does, and I'm a Yank. Imagine how it must sound to a Yugoslav or an Iraqi. Come on , Andrew, your tax dollars rain death on civilian heads on a regular basis and you're upset because you heard somebody shot at a couple of gulls in one of Britian's colonies!?! What's the matter, are you worried they might try poach a couple of His Lordship's Own geese next? What's with it with you guys? Don't you read history or news? Have you no idea what you tax money pays for? There's a reason that people all over the world have been shooting at the Union Jack for centuries on end. The Brits and their puppets and their puppets' puppets have been a plague on humanity for this entire millinium. A strong case can be made that in a great many respects that America itself, and epecially it's military, are British puppets today. Consider for example America's role in perpetuating the existance of Kuwait, a British creation. This wouldn't be the first time British puppets have shelled Scotland, either. It's traditional. Hell, even Scots have shelled Scotland at England's behest. Scots have shelled people all over the planet at England's behest. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Status of the United States Navy
-Caveat Lector- hi nessie, history or news? Have you no idea what you tax money pays for? There's a reason that people all over the world have been shooting at the Union Jack for centuries on end. The Brits and their puppets and their puppets' puppets have been a plague on humanity for this entire millinium. Of course you're right there - the initial joke of this matter was that the american military are legendary for their inaccuracy, but yes - the british taxpayers money has been misused to create new 'infrastructure opportunities' in Yugoslavia - and military wholesale elsewhere. and yes ... the Scots have taken 'the Kings Shilling' and been shafted left right and centre both by the English and the treacherous 'Parcel of Rogues' - however don't 'tar us all with the one brush' as they say. Suffrage has ingrained a strong global kinship in our bones - this quote from Dick Gaughin's song 'handful of earth' ... 'we're the first one's to starve we're the first one's to die we're the first one's in line for that pie in the sky and we're always the last when the cream is shared out for the workers are workin when the fat cats about and all of these things the worker has done from tillin the fields to carryin the gun we've been yoked to the plough since time first began aye and always expected to carry the can. Andrew Hennessey DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Status of the United States Navy
-Caveat Lector- One does wonder why, if modern artillery, both land-based and naval, is so highly computerized that what passes for "cannoneers" today might just as well be sitting in a video parlor in a mall in Dubuque, Iowa, as on a destroyer escort in the North Sea, why the hell do they need live-fire exercises at all? They've got simulators that do a better job of training service personnel without the expense of fighting a fake war. I suggest that the real reason for the Navy's indignation at the popular opposition to continued use of Vieques as a target range is simply that live-fire exercises make much better news bites, and they impress junketing Congresspeople... -Original Message- From: Andrew Hennessey [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, December 24, 1999 1:22 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] Status of the United States Navy -Caveat Lector- hi, sorry to interrupt your enjoyment of raw phallic power here but ... your wonderful navy having been unable to use firing ranges within simple guidelines at puerto rico and having been responsible for several deaths during practise . have now brought their shit to cape wrath in northern scotland ... where they are currently shelling bemused seagulls with depleted uranium shells. can someone not tell these assholes to mess up their own countryside ??? Andrew Hennessey DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Status of the United States Navy
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 12/24/1999 1:22:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: hi, sorry to interrupt your enjoyment of raw phallic power here but ... your wonderful navy having been unable to use firing ranges within simple guidelines at puerto rico and having been responsible for several deaths during practise . have now brought their shit to cape wrath in northern scotland ... where they are currently shelling bemused seagulls with depleted uranium shells. can someone not tell these assholes to mess up their own countryside ??? Andrew Hennesse It is the mystery of the age. It's bad enough they do the things they do at home, but whose idea was it to go to another country? Is it one of those friends of Blair/Thatcher things? Prudy DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Status of the United States Navy
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 12/24/1999 4:58:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Andrew, Do you know why they are there? Is their presence routine or is this a first? In any case, I cannot imagine why they should be "firing" anything! Some of the large vessels are capable of generating huge amounts of electricity, enough for a small city. Could their presence be related to this with the date change approaching? That still does not address the DU activity but might explain what they are doing there in the first place. Of course with the huge popularity that this country enjoys (ha!) as evidenced by the ever increasing terrorists threats, maybe it is "any port in a storm." All clustered in a group, they make an inviting target for enemies, a la Pearl Harbor. Maybe you could go to the press for some coverage and get this DU activity stopped! Amelia The odd habits of the US Navy came up on another listing. Someone came on as very angry with the Puerto Ricans because they didn't want the Navy to practice their shooting there, and even angrier because President Clinton had awarded them a rather small cash settlement for the damage done. I posted the following: I am not an expert on Vieques either, but I remembered reading a column about it, and I have found it. I won't try to give all the info, but this matrial was written by Anthony M. Stevens-Arroyo, formerly vice chairman of the NY State Committee for the US Commission on Civil Rights. He is professor of Puerto Rican and Latino Studies at Brooklyn College. In it he describes an incident on l8 April in which an F-l8 Navy jet from the USS John F. Kennedy missed its target and launched a bomb that killed one Puerto Rican civilian and seriously injured four others. Vieques is less than 2l miles long and five miles wide. Its population is fewer than l0,000 and the Navy occupies 75% of its 33,000 acres, pushing the natives into a six-mile strip at one corner. Since l94l when it took the land, the US has engaged in shooting live ammunition at targets on an inhabited island. Not only are the local people at risk from mistakes, but the practice of warplane strafing destroys the livelihood of the local fishermen. Vieques has experienced fatal accidents before, and the Navy has practiced landings on its beaches. The Navy refuses to declare whether nuclear weapons are stored on Viequest, but in a public statement issued May 27, the Navy admitted it used radiation-dangerous bullets in maneuvers. It has now acknowledged that on Feb l9, it fired 263 armor-piercing shells with depleted uranium. The Navy claims there is no danger of radiation poisoning unless the depleted uranium is inhaled. The Puerto Rico Health Department found that between l985 and l989, the population of Vieques had an incidence of throat and pharynx cancer much greater than the rest of Puerto Rico. Before the l980's, Vieques rsidents suffered fewer cancer cases than the rest of Puerto Rico. One environmentalist said that a particle one-quarter the diameter of a human hair--small enough to be lodged in a lung--emits 800 times the amount of radiation that could be tolerated during an entire year. Each of the 25mm shells fired by the Navy over Vieques contain a third of a pound of depleted uranium--meaning almost 90 pounds of the material was used. End of material taken from the article. In a 4 December article in the New York Times, it was announced that the Navy would stop bombing practice on Vieques and move its operations to Scotland. I wonder how the Scots feel about that. I'm sure Mr. Blair must have decided it was just fine, but then he doesn't live in Scotland. Prudy DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Status of the United States Navy
-Caveat Lector- At 03:26 PM 24, 12, , 1999 EST, you wrote: -Caveat Lector- In a message dated 12/24/1999 4:58:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Andrew, Do you know why they are there? Is their presence routine or is this a first? Cape Wrath on the northernmost tip of scotland is used by the ministry of defence as a firing range - however - the presence of this battle group which includes a big carrier, 2 cruisers, several destroyers and a pile of frigates all armed to the teeth with cruise missiles and DU shells more than just concerns me about the wildlife and the effects of uranium on a beautiful bit of nature. The fact is that now that we come to mention it isn't the timing of the presence of this Very Big flotilla Very interesting and not all that far from the ex-nuclear sub base at the Holy Loch in southwest scotland AND also Not Very far from the biggest NATO fuel reserve in Europe near Ullapool or the Massive Underground food stockpiles on the isle of Skye All in the same area !!! perhaps this is a little insurance policy for someone ... ?? Andrew DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Status of the United States Navy
-Caveat Lector- hi, sorry to interrupt your enjoyment of raw phallic power here but ... your wonderful navy having been unable to use firing ranges within simple guidelines at puerto rico and having been responsible for several deaths during practise . have now brought their shit to cape wrath in northern scotland ... where they are currently shelling bemused seagulls with depleted uranium shells. can someone not tell these assholes to mess up their own countryside ??? Andrew Hennessey DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
