CS: Pol-Face values. etc
From: "E.J. Totty", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi, I've just finished putting the finishing touches to the end of my involvement with the shooting sports; Returning my Certs to the police, handing in what ammo I had, put my shotguns in the local shop for sale etc. --snip-- Steve, Jim, Jim: You'll be sorely missed. Not in the way of a contributor, but in the way of being in the ranks of active, and interested members of the shooting community. Experience is something that takes personal attention, and dedication. Sometimes you walk the lonely road by yourself, wondering if you'll ever meet another soul -- a companion to share the thoughts of fun, exasperation, contemplation, preparation, and pregnant anticipation. Here's hoping that you'll have second thoughts, and return to sport that no one has ever mastered, but merely professed a love of and cussed out their competitors behind their backs, only to return and be decimated once again! Where else can you compete against yourself and win? Where else can you have so much fun losing? -- In Liberty, =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= "Whenever we are planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is not hereditary." --Thomas Paine By way of the The Federalist http://www.Federalist.com/ =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= ET Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Face values. etc
From: "Richard Loweth", [EMAIL PROTECTED] I do not think that we are going to be that far behind you. It is said that the "line in the sand" for the Conservatives is stalking rifles and game shooting shotguns and that ALL else is negotiable in terms of it being proscribed. -- Said by whom? Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Face values..
From: "Earl W", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did anyone else see "Murder Detectives" on Tues eve on Channel 5? The Forensic Entomologist (I think!) was called in to deal with the forensics surrounding a corpse that had been found in Hawaii. To do this he looks at the insects life cycle in order to ascertain the date time of death. The scientist drove up to the site, on...a Harley Davidson...with the uniform of a Biker - Leather jacket "Live To Ride", long white hair, gold chain earring. Not the stereotypical "Forensic Scientist" maybe, but he is one of the best in his field of expertise. Freedom of expression obviously needs to be "acceptable" in certain area's of life. We get bad press because the media see "Gun Camo = Soldier" What would our press say about this scientist? "Biker peels bugs off dead body" "Hell's Scientist or Hell's Angel?" "Bug crazy biker" In business, people wear a smart suit - that's the expected uniform it is an identifying characteristic that you see think "Business Person" In the lab, Volcanologists wear white coats, but when climbing the volcano, they wear the (practical) uniform of a mountaineer In this society, we are what other people see assume, correctly or not, the uniform can also be a commanding, intimidating or selling factor eg. An Army officer, Policeman's uniform = commanding The SAS black coveralls uniform in the Iranian Embassy Assault = intimidating The clothing of a "Lady of the Night" = selling The clothing worn at a Trap shooting competition / Olympics/ IPSC etc all state "Sportsman" the media may not have covered the Olympic shooting (only mentioning Richard Foulds after he won gold), BUT They cannot denigrate because the "Uniform" clearly states "SPORTSMAN" The Antis could never attack a Sportsman in Uniform at the Olympics with their lies have them stick But if Mr Foulds was not in uniform.What happened after the OlympicsA newly moved in resident (moved in from a town!) to his village, complained of the "Noise Shooting Makes" - Does she want to live near a WORLD CHAMPION or not? or does she want to live next to an Ex-World Champion claim credit for making him an Ex-World Champion (I hear she's moving away now?) Herein lies our problem, we are INDIVIDUALS who are a family in a sport, WE HAVE NO UNIFORM Except at competitions. Maybe whenever we shoot, we should wear the Competitive Clothing that is designed for shooters be proud of it as a Uniform Maybe we should all wear the Competitive Clothing on the March In March then we would all be promoting the visual impact of SPORTSPERSONS on all Media coverage we receive. (Views?) EW Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Face values..
From: Pete Ansbro, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank you for explaining what you meant and I certainly appreciate the practical side of ex.military clothing. But when you add a few rings in ears and through eyebrows, SNIPPED I apologise if I'm wrong, but I think you might be in danger of straying toward "Right crowd please, and no crowding". One of the real joys of shooting, and one of its most important assets, is that it attracts participation from all walks of life. Having been recently taken to task at this very forum for making gross generalizations about visual appearances, my pennorth is two-fold 1. What is of paramount importance is not how a person looks, dresses, smells or speaks, but how safe and accurate a shooter they are. I can think of several beautifully turned out shooters who would do well to take lessons in shooting, which rather proves my second point; 2. You can't judge a book by looking at the cover. Pete Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Face values. etc
From: "Jim 2", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi, I've just finished putting the finishing touches to the end of my involvement with the shooting sports; Returning my Certs to the police, handing in what ammo I had, put my shotguns in the local shop for sale etc. As a regular reader for many years, but rare contributor to this forum, I think now is a good time to make a few observations. After Hungerford, I went to the PR Club (of which I was Secretary for 6 yrs) and could not believe the conversations that were taking place. "They won't ban SLRs" "It will blow over" I was scare-mongering apparently, when I tried to get people off their arses to write to/visit MPs. Guess what - SLRs got banned! After Dunblane we went through the exact same lunacy, still nobody listened, we organised a coach to the first London march - and had empty seats, the Club membership at that time was over 400! No-one believed that they were going to lose pistols - even after the event! I had two people phone up asking when they had to start keeping their pistols at the Club - they didn't know the ban had happened, even after receiving the hand-in stuff from the police! On neither of the above occasions did any shooting organisation do much that could be considered useful - but why the hell should they? Their memberships (with a some exceptions) was good for nothing but sitting about whining! During my 16 yr membership, the most I saw at a Club AGM was 15! There were, of course plenty to moan afterwards! I would say at least 80% of the membership were not members of any shooting organisation - (before you ask, I was a member of 5). It's not organisations that are the problem - it's people! Now I see there's a discussion going on regarding who is "allowed" to wear Camo gear! I'm sorry, but who the hell has the right to tell another what he can and can't wear! Some time ago, at an NPA AGM at Bisley, there was a move to ban "the ostentatious wearing of holsters, off range" because the media might use it to discredit the sport! "The sport" had already committed suicide by being afraid of the media in the first place! I've been criticised (at an MLAGB competition) for using a "service load" in a .577 rifle, for target shooting. Apparently it's "not done" (the reply went "It bloody well is now") Why do we have to spend so much time building little empires - when there are far more useful things to be done! Sorry, but I've had it with shooting. It's bad enough that ACPO, Labour, Tories, Tabloids uncle tom cobly and all are determined to get whatever advantage can be gained by banning something - but now we have alleged "supporters" having a dig as well. Will the people of this Country EVER LEARN? I doubt it. Good luck to those who are prepaired to carry on the fight "Your country really does need you now" I'm afraid I've given up. BTW - Yes, I am a "veggie", have worn "camo", ride a motorbike, had long hair until it all fell out, and have at times had a long beard..so bloody what, it's called personal choice! Another of my choices is that I would not be found dead in tweed, or with rings through any part of my anatomy! "Thankyou and goodnight". JimC Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Face values..
From: "Alex Hamilton", [EMAIL PROTECTED] The E-mail about "black faces" at Pistol A.D. was not meant to be sarcastic in that sense but to show that perception is, in fact, not always reality. It is the same with the disparagement of those who wear ex-surplus "cammo gear". The perception seems to have been that all of these "types" are sad Rambo fantasists. The reality may be that they appreciate buying hard wearing well made practical items of clothing for a fraction of its true cost of manufacture simply because it is ex-surplus. It is nice to be able to afford a Haggart's tweed shooting suit that is warm, fits well and gives blends in as "camouflage" if stalking. But for a tenth of that I can buy exactly the same thing that because it is not tweed but a cloth printed with disruptive pattern colour is condemned as "cammo gear". But a good tweed is, in its reality, nothing more than rich man's "cammo gear". ___ Thank you for explaining what you meant and I certainly appreciate the practical side of ex.military clothing. But when you add a few rings in ears and through eyebrows, beard down to the waist, pony tail and a plastic bag full of bear cans (to be discarded anywhere when empty) you get the impression of a gentleman of independent means. One that does not need a job; does not care whether his appearance or behaviour causes offence; a true free spirit that signals "sod off" to the rest of us! Clearly, there are several stages between the genuine person who wears "cammo gear" and the type that I describe and there are exceptions to any generalisation, of course. My point was that if we want the society to tolerate our sport and grant us the privilege of free choice, then raising two fingers to every known convention is not likely to cause anything but contempt and that is bad news. Am I wrong? Alex Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Face values..
From: "pendrous", [EMAIL PROTECTED] By Terry Pendrous, Actually, that silly business about Camo clothing at Bisley during the period of the work up to the hand gun ban, was made to look even more pathetic when the younger generation took up wearing it as a fashion at the time. Anyone remember that? You know, we have got to a pathetic state when one starts worrying about crap like that! Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Face values..
From: "bob blake", [EMAIL PROTECTED] While defending an individuals rights to wear what they like, I do, however, consider that those, who insist on wearing camo gear on range, to be doing the sport a grave dis-service. To use cost and warmth and suitability as an excuse is nonsense, try getting on to a Golf course wearing a pair of cut off jeans, or camo gear for that matter. For any sport to have respectability it needs to have a code of conduct, which includes a dress code, clearly "camo style clothing" is seen by the press and the anti's as sinister, why give them ammunition to harm us. Keep up the good work Bob Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Face values..
From: "Richard Loweth", [EMAIL PROTECTED] The E-mail about "black faces" at Pistol A.D. was not meant to be sarcastic in that sense but to show that perception is, in fact, not always reality. It is the same with the disparagement of those who wear ex-surplus "cammo gear". The perception seems to have been that all of these "types" are sad Rambo fantasists. The reality may be that they appreciate buying hard wearing well made practical items of clothing for a fraction of its true cost of manufacture simply because it is ex-surplus. It is nice to be able to afford a Haggart's tweed shooting suit that is warm, fits well and gives blends in as "camouflage" if stalking. But for a tenth of that I can buy exactly the same thing that because it is not tweed but a cloth printed with disruptive pattern colour is condemned as "cammo gear". But a good tweed is, in its reality, nothing more than rich man's "cammo gear". Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
