Re: Please explain how to add to a thread in this mailing list

2016-08-11 Thread Kaz Kylheku

On 11.08.2016 17:44, Thomas Taylor wrote:

Thank you for responding to my post.  I think I asked the wrong
question.  What I really want to know is how to use this mailing list
and others like it.  I'm new at this, and can't find any instructions
anywhere.  Such lists must have become part of the culture, and I must
have missed school that day.  I'm able to create a post, but don't know
how to reply to one.


On pretty much any mailing list, you can use "reply all".

The most important thing that is going wrong on your end is that
your replies are lacking a References: header which cites the
Message-ID: values obtained from postings in the thread.

These message ID references are actually what organizes the
message objects into threads; it's how mail user agents and
archivers can reconstruct the conversation tree.


Somehow I got the feeling that I should only reply
to the mailing list, rather than directly to the person (like you) who
responded to my post.


Some mailing lists (like this one) are configured such that when
you reply to a list posting that you received from the list robot,
a list reply occurs whether or not you use "reply" or "reply all".

This is because the mailing list robot rewrites the From: headers
of the postings which it replicates so that it appears to be
the author.

This is very useful when lists are expected to be used by kindergarten
children rather than grown-ups, because it steers the users to the
common behavior of keeping the conversation in the list, without
those users having to understand e-mail, mailing lists, or which
reply button to use.

(In some modern e-mail clients, a third way of replying has
also appeared, namely "reply list", I just want to mention.
It's an unnecessary feature with an unclear justification
that appears to emanate from a deep-rooted misunderstanding
of e-mail.)

"Reply all" works in most circumstances, regardless of how mailing
lists are configured.

In the classic mailing list that doesn't rewrite From: lines,
nor assert the Reply-To: header, you must use
"Reply All", otherwise the reply will only go to the originator.

"Reply All" also honors the Cc: line. Your reply is targetted to
everyone in the To: and Cc:, which might include some parties who
are not subscribers of the mailing list, but are "in the loop"
of that particular conversation.


I don't get responses via email, and don't even
know if I should.


If you're subscribed to the list, you should see them; if
you aren't, there is some mail delivery problem.


Instead, I check for them periodically on the web
page for the mailing list archive.  If I find a response, I don't know
the right way to reply.


Replying via the archive is difficult, because it's not
set up for that. Some better archivers have such a feature;
I use one called "Lurker" on my mailing lists. You can
simply click on a reply button in the web archive, and it
redirects to your configured mail program, passing the original
text and other pieces of information as URL parameters.

If I want to reply to a conventionally archived mailing list
posting, I copy the raw text version. Then do some editing
to restore certain masked syntax like "foo dot bar" to "foo.bar"
and "foo at bar" to "foo@bar", in the headers only.
I also take care to edit the mbox-format "From  ..."
line to include the colon after the From, as is required
in the regular RFC 822 format.

Then I telnet to port 25 of my mail server, compose an envelope
from and to myself, and copy and paste that raw e-mail as
the SMTP DATA. It arrives in my inbox as if the list had sent
it to me; and I can reply to it in the conventional way.
Sometimes this method generates a Cc: to the list owner;
that has to be removed, either when composing or when
editing the raw text before SMTP.

I have the feeling you might be cutting and pasting quoted
text from the archive and composing new messages, which is why
your replies are lacking the References: header. The archiver
is able to infer that this is going on, and is threading your
replies anyway, under a node marked "".
It's probably figuring this out based on some heuristics involving
the common Subject: line and perhaps some fuzzy matching
on pieces of quoted text.

[I'm adding you to the Cc: list in hopes that perhaps direct
mail delivery from me-to-you will work, since you aren't getting
list traffic.]



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Re: Please explain how to add to a thread in this mailing list

2016-08-11 Thread Jack

On 2016.08.11 22:13, Greg Freemyer wrote:
On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 8:44 PM, Thomas Taylor   
wrote:
> Thank you for responding to my post.  I think I asked the wrong  
question.
> What I really want to know is how to use this mailing list and  
others like
> it.  I'm new at this, and can't find any instructions anywhere.   
Such lists
> must have become part of the culture, and I must have missed school  
that

> day.  I'm able to create a post, but don't know how to reply to one.
> Somehow I got the feeling that I should only reply to the mailing  
list,
> rather than directly to the person (like you) who responded to my  
post.  I
> don't get responses via email, and don't even know if I should.   
Instead, I
> check for them periodically on the web page for the mailing list  
archive.

> If I find a response, I don't know the right way to reply.

Are you subscribed such that you get each email as a separate email?

If so, all you have to do is reply.

Reply all s normally fine, but I've been on lists with various rules
(netiquettes).

I suspect your issue is how you subscribed to the list.

Greg

That also depends on you email software.  In most cases, Greg is right,  
and you can just hit "reply".  However, in some cases, the combination  
of the list software and you email software knows you can "Reply to  
group" which is different - it replies to the list address, and not to  
the individual who sent the message.  Unfortunately, there is not  
consistency here, so you have to learn how the lists you subscribe to  
identify themselves, and how you individual email software deals with  
that.  For example, I need to "G" or "Reply-group" rather than just  
"Reply".  The real issue is simply that you need to pay attention to  
all the "To:" and "CC:" headers before you hit "Send".

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Re: Please explain how to add to a thread in this mailing list

2016-08-11 Thread Greg Freemyer
On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 8:44 PM, Thomas Taylor  wrote:
> Thank you for responding to my post.  I think I asked the wrong question.
> What I really want to know is how to use this mailing list and others like
> it.  I'm new at this, and can't find any instructions anywhere.  Such lists
> must have become part of the culture, and I must have missed school that
> day.  I'm able to create a post, but don't know how to reply to one.
> Somehow I got the feeling that I should only reply to the mailing list,
> rather than directly to the person (like you) who responded to my post.  I
> don't get responses via email, and don't even know if I should.  Instead, I
> check for them periodically on the web page for the mailing list archive.
> If I find a response, I don't know the right way to reply.
>
>
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>

Are you subscribed such that you get each email as a separate email?

If so, all you have to do is reply.

Reply all s normally fine, but I've been on lists with various rules
(netiquettes).

I suspect your issue is how you subscribed to the list.

Greg

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Re: Please explain how to add to a thread in this mailing list

2016-08-11 Thread Thomas Taylor
Thank you for responding to my post.  I think I asked the wrong 
question.  What I really want to know is how to use this mailing list 
and others like it.  I'm new at this, and can't find any instructions 
anywhere.  Such lists must have become part of the culture, and I must 
have missed school that day.  I'm able to create a post, but don't know 
how to reply to one.  Somehow I got the feeling that I should only reply 
to the mailing list, rather than directly to the person (like you) who 
responded to my post.  I don't get responses via email, and don't even 
know if I should.  Instead, I check for them periodically on the web 
page for the mailing list archive.  If I find a response, I don't know 
the right way to reply.



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Re: Please explain how to add to a thread in this mailing list

2016-08-11 Thread Jack

On 2016.08.11 19:37, Eliot Moss wrote:

On 8/11/2016 7:28 PM, Thomas Taylor wrote:
I tried to reply to the person who replied to my original post.  I  
did this by sending an email to
this mailing list, with "RE: " as the new  
subject line.  The mailing list
took this to be a reply to my original post, rather than a reply to  
the person who replied to my
original post.  Should I have used "RE: RE: instead?


No -- you should look at the addressees in the mail and responder
only to the sender, not the list, if that's what you want ...

But you ASKED a different question: how to add a (presumably new)
thread to the LIST.  I believe you simply need to send a new message
or change the subject more, and not use RE: ...Eliot Moss


Also note that most email threading happens using headers which are  
rarely seen by humans (using the internal message id's) so if you reply  
to a list message, even if you change the subject completely, many  
email programs will still indent it under the message you replied to.   
Whether those headers are set correctly depends on your email software  
(although most seem to do the right thing.)


Also note that it is not the mailing list which determines threading.   
It's all done at display time by the software reading the messages,  
whether that's your local email software (thunderbird, kmail, ...) or  
some web email interface.


Jack
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Re: Please explain how to add to a thread in this mailing list

2016-08-11 Thread Eliot Moss

On 8/11/2016 7:28 PM, Thomas Taylor wrote:

I tried to reply to the person who replied to my original post.  I did this by 
sending an email to
this mailing list, with "RE: " as the new subject line.  
The mailing list
took this to be a reply to my original post, rather than a reply to the person 
who replied to my
original post.  Should I have used "RE: RE: 

No -- you should look at the addressees in the mail and responder
only to the sender, not the list, if that's what you want ...

But you ASKED a different question: how to add a (presumably new)
thread to the LIST.  I believe you simply need to send a new message
or change the subject more, and not use RE: ...Eliot Moss

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Please explain how to add to a thread in this mailing list

2016-08-11 Thread Thomas Taylor
I tried to reply to the person who replied to my original post.  I did 
this by sending an email to this mailing list, with "RE: subject line>" as the new subject line.  The mailing list took this to 
be a reply to my original post, rather than a reply to the person who 
replied to my original post.  Should I have used "RE: RE: subject line" instead?


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Re: tcsh version 6.19.00-3 hangs on exit

2016-08-11 Thread Thomas Taylor
I really appreciate your looking into this problem.  I use the Cygwin64 
Terminal icon to create one or more windows.  I set my login shell to 
/bin/tcsh in /etc/passwd.  As you suggested, I deleted ~/.logout, and do 
not have an /etc/csh.logout.  I also deleted ~/.login, and reduced my 
(optional) ~/.cshrc to only the following two lines:


set history=100
set savehist=($history merge lock)

In this case (if I understand correctly) tcsh first sources 
/etc/csh.cshrc, then ~/.cshrc, then /etc/csh.login.  The files 
/etc/csh.cshrc and /etc/csh.login are as downloaded from one of the 
Cygwin x86_64 mirror sites, and are unchanged by me; only the optional 
file ~/.cshrc (above) has been added by me.  Unfortunately, all mintty 
windows hang upon exit, and each must be killed (along with its 
associated tcsh) using the Windows Task Manager.  C-Shell scripts 
started from the command line also hang upon exit (unless their first 
line contains the fast startup flag "-f"), and must be killed with 
Control-C.  The mintty windows and the C-Shell scripts do not hang if 
the third word "lock" is removed from the setting of savehist in 
~/.cshrc.  I would like to use "lock" for the reasons mentioned in the 
tcsh man pages.  Things seemed to work fine until a couple of weeks ago, 
when I updated my Cygwin system.



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[ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated: postgresql-9.5.4-1

2016-08-11 Thread Marco Atzeri

Version 9.5.4-1  of packages

  libecpg-compat3
  libecpg-devel
  libecpg6
  libpgtypes3
  libpq-devel
  libpq5
  postgresql
  postgresql-client
  postgresql-contrib
  postgresql-devel
  postgresql-doc
  postgresql-plperl
  postgresql-plpython

are available in the Cygwin distribution:

CHANGES
This is a upstream  security fix relase
https://www.postgresql.org/about/news/1688/

Upgrade is recommended

 Migration to Version 9.5.4

For upgrade from previous 9.5.x see :
http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.5/static/release-9-5-4.html

A dump/restore is required for those running 9.4.X.
http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.5/static/release-9-5.html

ADVISE for major version UPGRADE
http://www.postgresql.org/support/versioning/

Major releases usually change the internal format of system tables
and data files. These changes are often complex, so we do not maintain
backward compatibility of all stored data. A dump/reload of the
database or use of the pg_upgrade module is required for major upgrades.

DESCRIPTION
PostgreSQL is a powerful, open source object-relational database system.
It has a proven architecture that has earned it a strong reputation for
reliability, data integrity, and correctness.
It is fully ACID compliant, has full support for foreign keys, joins, views,
triggers, and stored procedures (in multiple languages).
It includes most SQL:2008 data types

HOMEPAGE
http://www.postgresql.org


Marco Atzeri

If you have questions or comments, please send them to the
cygwin mailing list at: cygwin (at) cygwin (dot) com .

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Re: Postinstall script errors on cygwin x86 install

2016-08-11 Thread Achim Gratz
Brent writes:
> I am not sure what you mean by "the R that comes with Cygwin".  I do
> not think that cygwin comes with its own version R installed by
> default, like it default installs perl.  In fact, quickly skimming
> cygwin's setup-x86.exe list of available packages, I do not see an R
> in there.

https://cygwin.com/packages/x86/R


Regards,
Achim.
-- 
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Samples for the Waldorf Blofeld:
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Re: cygwin ports

2016-08-11 Thread Corinna Vinschen
On Aug 11 12:55, Will Parsons wrote:
> On Thursday, 11 Aug 2016  2:57 AM -0400, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
> > --sglnxm7oayejr3gt
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> > Content-Disposition: inline
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> >
> > On Aug 11 08:39, Franz Fehringer wrote:
> >> Am 11.08.2016 um 08:33 schrieb Franz Fehringer:
> >> > [...] Additionally gmane has shut down its web
> >> > interface so i cannot access the cygwin ports mailing lists any more. Is
> >> > there any advice / help on this?
> >> [...]
> >> This also means that the newsgroups link on the cygwin main page is
> >> broken now.
> >
> > Yeah, what a pity :(
> >
> > I'll fix this later today.
> 
> Just the web interface shut down.  I'm posting via Gmane right now.

I created a minimal local website to explain how to access the gmane.org
NNTP gateway.  Have a look at https://cygwin.com/ and follow the
"Newsgroups" link on the left-side navigation bar.  It's not much but at
least it contains more information than a pointer into web nirvana due
to closing the gmane.org website.


HTH,
Corinna

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Re: Licensing for bundling setup-x86[_64].exe installer?

2016-08-11 Thread Yaakov Selkowitz

On 2016-08-11 12:26, m.gai...@comcast.net wrote:

The question is: What's the license for setup-x86.exe and setup-x86_64.exe 
itself?


GPLv2+, as indicated in the sources:

https://sourceware.org/git/?p=cygwin-apps/setup.git;a=tree

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Licensing for bundling setup-x86[_64].exe installer?

2016-08-11 Thread m . gainer
I'm working on a Google-sponsored open-source project. I'd like to bundle 
setup-x86.exe with the project to improve usablility on our installer. The 
installer fetches Cygwin to enable our bash scripts to install our other 
dependencies and then launch App Engine runtime/installer tools. 

The question is: What's the license for setup-x86.exe and setup-x86_64.exe 
itself? 

I see the FAQ and the licensing page, and AFAICT those are discussing the items 
installed by Cygwin and the Cygwin runtime, rather than _just_ the installer. 
Running 'strings' on the installer executable doesn't yield anything relevant. 

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Re: cygwin ports

2016-08-11 Thread Will Parsons
On Thursday, 11 Aug 2016  2:57 AM -0400, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
> --sglnxm7oayejr3gt
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> Content-Disposition: inline
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> On Aug 11 08:39, Franz Fehringer wrote:
>> Am 11.08.2016 um 08:33 schrieb Franz Fehringer:
>> > [...] Additionally gmane has shut down its web
>> > interface so i cannot access the cygwin ports mailing lists any more. Is
>> > there any advice / help on this?
>> [...]
>> This also means that the newsgroups link on the cygwin main page is
>> broken now.
>
> Yeah, what a pity :(
>
> I'll fix this later today.

Just the web interface shut down.  I'm posting via Gmane right now.

-- 
Will


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Re: 2.5.1: kill(pid, sig) before waitpid() returns -1 for sig != 0

2016-08-11 Thread Corinna Vinschen
On Aug 11 16:13, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
> Hi Eric,

Oops, Eri*k*.


Sorry,
Corinna

> 
> On Aug 11 11:51, Erik Bray wrote:
> > [...]
> > > Existing implementations vary on the result of a kill() with pid 
> > > indicating an inactive process (a
> > > terminated process that has not been waited for by its parent). Some 
> > > indicate success on such a
> > > call (subject to permission checking), while others give an error of 
> > > [ESRCH]. Since the definition
> > > of process lifetime in this volume of POSIX.1-2008 covers inactive 
> > > processes, the [ESRCH] error
> > > as described is inappropriate in this case. In particular, this means 
> > > that an application cannot
> > > have a parent process check for termination of a particular child with 
> > > kill(). (Usually this is done
> > > with the null signal; this can be done reliably with waitpid().)
> > 
> > In response to the originally issue, this was fixed *specifically* for
> > the case of kill(pid, 0).  But my reading of the above is that kill()
> > should return 0 in this case regardless of the signal (modulo
> > permissions, etc.).  On Linux, for example, when calling kill with pid
> > of a zombie process the kernel will happily deliver the signal to the
> > relevant task_struct; it will just never be acted on since the task
> > will never run again.
> 
> I'm not sure why cgf only fixed that for sig 0 at the time, since, as
> you noted, the text from POSIX-1.2008 does not state that this is
> *restricted* to sig 0.
> 
> > The below (untested) patch demonstrates the change I'm suggesting,
> > though I don't know what other code, if any, might be involved in
> > this.
> 
> The original patch laid the groundwork by making sure that there are
> two states, EXITED and REAPED.  Removing the explicit check for 0 is
> the right thing to do, afaics, so I tested and applied your patch as is,
> see 
> https://cygwin.com/git/?p=newlib-cygwin.git;a=commitdiff;h=86f79af827729f3968d8b3b8f860ac29d200da0d
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> Corinna
> 
> -- 
> Corinna Vinschen  Please, send mails regarding Cygwin to
> Cygwin Maintainer cygwin AT cygwin DOT com
> Red Hat



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Re: 2.5.1: kill(pid, sig) before waitpid() returns -1 for sig != 0

2016-08-11 Thread Corinna Vinschen
Hi Eric,

On Aug 11 11:51, Erik Bray wrote:
> [...]
> > Existing implementations vary on the result of a kill() with pid indicating 
> > an inactive process (a
> > terminated process that has not been waited for by its parent). Some 
> > indicate success on such a
> > call (subject to permission checking), while others give an error of 
> > [ESRCH]. Since the definition
> > of process lifetime in this volume of POSIX.1-2008 covers inactive 
> > processes, the [ESRCH] error
> > as described is inappropriate in this case. In particular, this means that 
> > an application cannot
> > have a parent process check for termination of a particular child with 
> > kill(). (Usually this is done
> > with the null signal; this can be done reliably with waitpid().)
> 
> In response to the originally issue, this was fixed *specifically* for
> the case of kill(pid, 0).  But my reading of the above is that kill()
> should return 0 in this case regardless of the signal (modulo
> permissions, etc.).  On Linux, for example, when calling kill with pid
> of a zombie process the kernel will happily deliver the signal to the
> relevant task_struct; it will just never be acted on since the task
> will never run again.

I'm not sure why cgf only fixed that for sig 0 at the time, since, as
you noted, the text from POSIX-1.2008 does not state that this is
*restricted* to sig 0.

> The below (untested) patch demonstrates the change I'm suggesting,
> though I don't know what other code, if any, might be involved in
> this.

The original patch laid the groundwork by making sure that there are
two states, EXITED and REAPED.  Removing the explicit check for 0 is
the right thing to do, afaics, so I tested and applied your patch as is,
see 
https://cygwin.com/git/?p=newlib-cygwin.git;a=commitdiff;h=86f79af827729f3968d8b3b8f860ac29d200da0d


Thanks,
Corinna

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Re: Ubuntu on Windows against Cygwin X server

2016-08-11 Thread Marco Atzeri

On 11/08/2016 14:57, Nellis, Kenneth wrote:

From: Marco Atzeri

http://x.cygwin.com/docs/faq/cygwin-x-faq.html#q-xserver-nolisten-tcp-default


The target of this link says "See Q: 1.6", which states
"See the DISPLAY NAMES section of man X for more information."

$ man X
No manual entry for X
$ uname -svr
CYGWIN_NT-6.1 2.5.2(0.297/5/3) 2016-06-23 14:29
$ cygcheck -c man-db
Cygwin Package Information
Package  VersionStatus
man-db   2.7.4-1OK
$

--Ken Nellis



https://cygwin.com/packages/x86_64/xorg-docs/xorg-docs-1.7.1-1

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RE: Ubuntu on Windows against Cygwin X server

2016-08-11 Thread Nellis, Kenneth
From: Marco Atzeri
> http://x.cygwin.com/docs/faq/cygwin-x-faq.html#q-xserver-nolisten-tcp-default

The target of this link says "See Q: 1.6", which states
"See the DISPLAY NAMES section of man X for more information."

$ man X
No manual entry for X
$ uname -svr
CYGWIN_NT-6.1 2.5.2(0.297/5/3) 2016-06-23 14:29
$ cygcheck -c man-db
Cygwin Package Information
Package  VersionStatus
man-db   2.7.4-1OK
$

--Ken Nellis


2.5.1: kill(pid, sig) before waitpid() returns -1 for sig != 0

2016-08-11 Thread Erik Bray
Hi all,

This is a followup to a report back in 2011 about essentially the same issue:

https://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2011-04/msg00031.html

The same test program in that report demonstrates the issue, but with
kill sending any non-zero signal.  To reiterate, the problem here is
POSIX compliance with respect to sending signals to zombie processes:

> Existing implementations vary on the result of a kill() with pid indicating 
> an inactive process (a
> terminated process that has not been waited for by its parent). Some indicate 
> success on such a
> call (subject to permission checking), while others give an error of [ESRCH]. 
> Since the definition
> of process lifetime in this volume of POSIX.1-2008 covers inactive processes, 
> the [ESRCH] error
> as described is inappropriate in this case. In particular, this means that an 
> application cannot
> have a parent process check for termination of a particular child with 
> kill(). (Usually this is done
> with the null signal; this can be done reliably with waitpid().)

In response to the originally issue, this was fixed *specifically* for
the case of kill(pid, 0).  But my reading of the above is that kill()
should return 0 in this case regardless of the signal (modulo
permissions, etc.).  On Linux, for example, when calling kill with pid
of a zombie process the kernel will happily deliver the signal to the
relevant task_struct; it will just never be acted on since the task
will never run again.

The below (untested) patch demonstrates the change I'm suggesting,
though I don't know what other code, if any, might be involved in
this.

Please CC me on any replies since I'm not subscribed to the list.

Thanks,
Erik

diff --git a/winsup/cygwin/signal.cc b/winsup/cygwin/signal.cc
index ff101e3..d819e77 100644
--- a/winsup/cygwin/signal.cc
+++ b/winsup/cygwin/signal.cc
@@ -260,7 +260,7 @@ _pinfo::kill (siginfo_t& si)
}
   this_pid = pid;
 }
-  else if (si.si_signo == 0 && this && process_state == PID_EXITED)
+  else if (this && process_state == PID_EXITED)
 {
   this_process_state = process_state;
   this_pid = pid;

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Re: Ubuntu on Windows against Cygwin X server

2016-08-11 Thread Franz Fehringer
Am 10.08.2016 um 18:02 schrieb Andrey Repin:
> Greetings, Franz Fehringer!
> 
> 
>> Thanks much better now.
>> Do you have an additional hint about
>> (gvim:359): GConf-WARNING **: Client failed to connect to the D-BUS daemon:
>> Did not receive a reply. Possible causes include: the remote application
>> did not send a reply, the message bus security policy blocked the reply,
>> the reply timeout expired, or the network connection was broken.
>> ?
>> I installed and started (on Cygwin) dbus as a service.
> 
> The cause is presumable the same. D-Bus listens on unix domain socket by
> default.

You are right, this improves things again. With KDE applications it is
still bumpy (barely usable) but no crash anymore. Gnome applications
seem to work reasonably well.

> 
> P.S.
> This list is in "no top posting please, thank you" mode.
> 
> 


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[ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated: pure-ftpd-1.0.43-1

2016-08-11 Thread Marco Atzeri

Versions 1.0.43-1 of

   pure-ftpd

have been uploaded for cygwin.

CHANGES
Latest upstream release.

DESCRIPTION
Pure-FTPd is a free (BSD), secure, production-quality and
standard-conformant FTP server. It doesn't provide useless
bells and whistles, but focuses on efficiency and ease of use

HOMEPAGE
https://www.pureftpd.org/project/pure-ftpd

Regards
Marco Atzeri


If you have questions or comments, please send them to the
cygwin mailing list at: cygwin (at) cygwin (dot) com .

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