Re: RXVT copy/paste behavior
Dave Korn dave.korn at artimi.com writes: -Original Message- From: cygwin-owner On Behalf Of Phil Betts Sent: 08 February 2005 17:09 The selection model used by rxvt is standard throughout the X11 world. It's insane. This makes it very tricky to select a new window without unintentionally erasing the contents of the clipboard that you were hoping to paste there because the mouse moved just enough as you clicked it to select a single character and the auto-copy destroyed your clipboard contents without asking. I agree on this one as well. Also the middle-mouse button is a pain, as it has become a lot more sensitive since scroll wheels, and it happened to me many times to paste and scroll which many times wasted my paste effort :( Destroying user data without any kind of confirmation, are-you-sure, or requiring a difficult-to-type-accidentally key-combination (such as ctrl-c) is an appallingly incompetent piece of UI design. It's like having a pistol without a safety catch, or an ICBM without a dual-key control. No. That would be just annoying to confirm every time you want to copy something :P Real experts operate a computer with one hand on the mouse and one on the keyboard *at the same time* anyway. This makes it very easy to do selecting, cutting and pasting. And under 'doze, you can also use a right-click over the selected area to bring up a menu with cut, copy and paste options. You don't *have* to use the keyboard if you don't find it more efficient. This one I agree fully! -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
RE: RXVT copy/paste behavior
Rxvt v2.7.10 - released: 26 MARCH 2003 Options: XPM,transparent,utmp,menubar,multichar_languages,scrollbars=rxvt+NeXT+xterm,frills,linespace,256colour,.Xdefaults [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]$cat .Xdefaults Rxvt.cursorColor: red Rxvt.scrollBar_right: True Rxvt.selectstyle: old I don't see any changed behavior! What is 2.20, by the way? ca From: Reid Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: cygwin@cygwin.com Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 16:31:10 -0500 Subject: RE: RXVT copy/paste behavior Dave Korn wrote: -Original Message- From: cygwin-owner On Behalf Of Phil Betts Sent: 08 February 2005 17:09 The selection model used by rxvt is standard throughout the X11 world. http://seth.positivism.org/man.cgi/rxvt there are hyperlinks in the above page that reference how the selection style is configured... selectstyle: mode Set mouse selection style to old which is 2.20, oldword which is xterm style with 2.20 old word selection, or anything else which gives xterm style selection. reid -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
RE: RXVT copy/paste behavior
Rizwan Kassim wrote: Rxvt v2.7.10 - released: 26 MARCH 2003 Options: XPM,transparent,utmp,menubar,multichar_languages,scrollbars=rx vt+NeXT+xterm,frills,linespace,256colour,.Xdefaults [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]$cat .Xdefaults Rxvt.cursorColor: red Rxvt.scrollBar_right: True Rxvt.selectstyle: old I don't see any changed behavior! What is 2.20, by the way? appears to be the same exe... Rxvt v2.7.10 - released: 26 MARCH 2003 Options: XPM,transparent,utmp,menubar,multichar_languages,scrollbars=rxvt+NeXT+xt erm,frills,linespace,256colour,.Xdefaults Definitely changes the cursor color and scrollbar location on my terms. Not sure about selectstyle, i use the default and am happy with it(although i seem to recall running across a definition while googling re this yesterday). I also did a quick change to background and foreground colors -- they were picked up too. Are you explicitely setting values in the call to open a new term that are overriding those in .Xdefaults? My normal means of opening rxvt terminals is via shortcuts that equate to some variant of: rxvt.exe -sr -sl 2500 -geometry 80x25 -sb -fg green -bg midnightblue -fn lucida console-13-bold -e bash --rcfile /home/rthompso/.bashrc The explicitely given parameters will override those in .Xdefaults. (Using different color schemes for different hosts makes it easy for me to determine with a 'look' what host the current terminal is connected to.) $ ls -lrt ~/.Xdefaults -rwx--+ 1 Reid.Thompson Domain Users 236 Feb 10 08:59 /home/rthompso/.Xdefaults reid -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: RXVT copy/paste behavior
On Feb 8 21:47, Gary R. Van Sickle wrote: [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Korn From: cygwin-owner On Behalf Of Phil Betts The selection model used by rxvt is standard throughout the X11 world. It's insane. I'm with you 1000% on this one Korny, [etc] May I throw in a TITTTL here? UI models is as such Cygwin specific as is, for example, the stone-age old discussion about the right editor. Reply-To set to cygwin-talk. Corinna -- Corinna Vinschen Please, send mails regarding Cygwin to Cygwin Project Co-Leader mailto:cygwin@cygwin.com Red Hat, Inc. -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
RE: RXVT copy/paste behavior
On Tuesday, February 08, 2005 7:25 PM Dave Korn wrote: It's insane. Unless you have the precision muscular control skills of a world-class gymnast, a mouse always moves at least a little bit when you press down on the button. Which is one reason why I prefer a trackball - moving and clicking are independent operations. They take a bit of getting used to, but after the first day or so, you stop trying to shove it around your desk. Once you've got used to it, the mouse seems very clumsy. I also found that my RSI and back problems disappeared, but YMMV. This makes it very tricky to select a new window without unintentionally erasing the contents of the clipboard that you were hoping to paste there because the mouse moved just enough as you clicked it to select a single character and the auto-copy destroyed your clipboard contents without asking. I use focus-follows-mouse (aka X-mouse) so no clicking is required. Destroying user data without any kind of confirmation, are-you-sure, or requiring a difficult-to-type-accidentally key-combination (such as ctrl-c) is an appallingly incompetent piece of UI design. It's like having a pistol without a safety catch, or an ICBM without a dual-key control. A fair point. FWIW, it's not just X programs that do this. TeraTerm (a 'doze terminal emulator) One reason I use it ;-) And don't tell me... I wouldn't dream of telling the great Dave K anything! ksh saved my sanity back in the days when it was just csh or sh. ...that I'm only ever allowed to select windows by clicking on the menu bar and that I get what I deserve if I click in the main part of the window. If you have lots of windows open, the menu bars of many of them are often obscured. Why should 99% of the window's surface area be verboten for selecting that window? Again, focus-follows-mouse (and auto-raise if you like that sort of thing - I don't) WFM. The entire model is screwy. It wastes lots of my time and interrupts my workflow. The 'doze way works smoothly and is much closer to fail-safe: it's very hard to accidentally press Ctrl+C and lose data in the same way. Equally, I waste lots of time going back to the original window because I forgot to press ctrl-C. Real experts... avoid using the pointer altogether? ...operate a computer with one hand on the mouse and one on the keyboard *at the same time* anyway. OK, now you're just showing off! I guess it all boils down to personal preference in the end. Until the telepathic HCI comes along (RSN), we'll all struggle to communicate our intentions computers from time to time. Even then, I'm not sure that I would really appreciate a computer that obligingly uninstalled all Microsoft programs every 5 minutes! Phil -- ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ** -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
RE: RXVT copy/paste behavior
-Original Message- From: cygwin-owner On Behalf Of Phil Betts Sent: 09 February 2005 10:43 [ Um, I know this thread is supposed to be TITTTL'd, so I'm not going to discuss the subject of the thread, but I do need to correct a minor misrepresentation: ] And don't tell me... I wouldn't dream of telling the great Dave K anything! ksh saved my sanity back in the days when it was just csh or sh. I'm not that guy. No relation whatsoever. (Boy, did he ever ruin the experience of googling one's own name for _me_ !) Any further discussion of the topic - bock bock b'gwk. You know the rest. cheers, DaveK -- Can't think of a witty .sigline today -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: RXVT copy/paste behavior
Dave I do not speak for ATT! Korn wrote: I wouldn't dream of telling the great Dave K anything! ksh saved my sanity back in the days when it was just csh or sh. I'm not that guy. No relation whatsoever. (Boy, did he ever ruin the experience of googling one's own name for _me_ !) The only solution would be to change your name Dave! :-) -- Does fuzzy logic tickle? -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
RE: RXVT copy/paste behavior
On Tuesday, February 08, 2005 6:14 AM Rizwan Kassim wrote (sort of): I haven't been able to find out how to do the following: I'd like to accelerate my car using the left pedal and find some other way of stopping it (maybe the pedal on the right). Anyone know how to do this? Cheers, Rizwan It may be possible, but if you do it, don't be surprised when you crash and burn the first time you try to drive a different car. The selection model used by rxvt is standard throughout the X11 world. Learn it and enjoy the elegant simplicity of the scheme instead of the insane mouse, keyboard, mouse, keyboard routine that characterises the Windows way. Phil ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ** -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
RE: RXVT copy/paste behavior
-Original Message- From: cygwin-owner On Behalf Of Phil Betts Sent: 08 February 2005 17:09 The selection model used by rxvt is standard throughout the X11 world. It's insane. Unless you have the precision muscular control skills of a world-class gymnast, a mouse always moves at least a little bit when you press down on the button. This makes it very tricky to select a new window without unintentionally erasing the contents of the clipboard that you were hoping to paste there because the mouse moved just enough as you clicked it to select a single character and the auto-copy destroyed your clipboard contents without asking. Destroying user data without any kind of confirmation, are-you-sure, or requiring a difficult-to-type-accidentally key-combination (such as ctrl-c) is an appallingly incompetent piece of UI design. It's like having a pistol without a safety catch, or an ICBM without a dual-key control. FWIW, it's not just X programs that do this. TeraTerm (a 'doze terminal emulator) has this same behaviour, and it has wasted lots of my time and energy in having to repeatedly go back to the original window and re-copy the original text. And don't tell me that I'm only ever allowed to select windows by clicking on the menu bar and that I get what I deserve if I click in the main part of the window. If you have lots of windows open, the menu bars of many of them are often obscured. Why should 99% of the window's surface area be verboten for selecting that window? The entire model is screwy. It wastes lots of my time and interrupts my workflow. The 'doze way works smoothly and is much closer to fail-safe: it's very hard to accidentally press Ctrl+C and lose data in the same way. Learn it and enjoy the elegant simplicity of the scheme instead of the insane mouse, keyboard, mouse, keyboard routine that characterises the Windows way. Real experts operate a computer with one hand on the mouse and one on the keyboard *at the same time* anyway. This makes it very easy to do selecting, cutting and pasting. And under 'doze, you can also use a right-click over the selected area to bring up a menu with cut, copy and paste options. You don't *have* to use the keyboard if you don't find it more efficient. cheers, DaveK -- Can't think of a witty .sigline today -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
RE: RXVT copy/paste behavior
Dave Korn wrote: -Original Message- From: cygwin-owner On Behalf Of Phil Betts Sent: 08 February 2005 17:09 It's insane. not really -- works exceptionally well for me, much better than keyboard shortcuts for my use. Unless you have the precision muscular control skills of a world-class gymnast, a mouse always moves at least a little bit when you press down on the button. I never considered my muscular control as such - but evidently I should try out for the next olympics This makes it very tricky to select a new window without unintentionally erasing the contents of the clipboard that you were hoping to paste there because the mouse moved just enough as you clicked it to select a single character and the auto-copy destroyed your clipboard contents without asking. I cannot remember the last time this happened to me... i.e. extremely rare for this to occur. The entire model is screwy. It wastes lots of my time and interrupts my workflow. The 'doze way works smoothly and is much closer to fail-safe: it's very hard to accidentally press Ctrl+C and lose data in the same way. not true, considering that the c and v keys sit side by side on the keyboard. if the sequence copy with left mouse button, select new window with left mouse button, paste into new window with middle mouse button/scroll wheel causes you problems... try copy with left mouse button, select_and_paste at same time into new window via middle mouse button/scroll wheel. reid -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
RE: RXVT copy/paste behavior
Dave Korn wrote: -Original Message- From: cygwin-owner On Behalf Of Phil Betts Sent: 08 February 2005 17:09 The selection model used by rxvt is standard throughout the X11 world. http://seth.positivism.org/man.cgi/rxvt there are hyperlinks in the above page that reference how the selection style is configured... selectstyle: mode Set mouse selection style to old which is 2.20, oldword which is xterm style with 2.20 old word selection, or anything else which gives xterm style selection. reid -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
RE: RXVT copy/paste behavior
copy with left mouse button, select_and_paste at same time into new window via middle mouse button/scroll wheel. or, copy with left mouse button, select new window with right mouse button(rather than left), paste with middle button/scroller reid -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
RE: RXVT copy/paste behavior
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Korn Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 1:25 PM To: cygwin@cygwin.com Subject: RE: RXVT copy/paste behavior -Original Message- From: cygwin-owner On Behalf Of Phil Betts Sent: 08 February 2005 17:09 The selection model used by rxvt is standard throughout the X11 world. It's insane. I'm with you 1000% on this one Korny, and for every reason you've stated. The short answer to it though is this: contrary to most Unix-heads' beliefs, the world did not stop on the date that Unix was invented. Progress (dare I say, innovation?) has in fact occurred since the first line of C code was written, the last VT-100 terminal was thrown in the trash, and the X-Windows mess was thought up. -- Gary R. Van Sickle -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
