Re: Hosting the Debian/kCygwin port?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Sjors Gielen wrote: [...] I'm working on a project porting the Debian tools to Cygwin. Yes, yes, I know I'm replying to a post over a month old. Nevertheless, I recently found something that's relevant: http://debian-interix.net/ This is a Debian port on top of Interix, a.k.a. Microsoft Services for Unix, the unix-alike that runs on the NT kernel. Unlike Cygwin it doesn't go through the win32 layer and so doesn't need all the emulation layers, which gives it (allegedly) much better I/O throughput, proper case sensitive filenames, inode semantics, etc. While installation is still a bit tortuous, they have a buildd and claim to support a decent number of packages... Is this of interest to anyone? - -- David Given d...@cowlark.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJqIBzf9E0noFvlzgRAs3KAJ4le9J35bJcN7agQVK0RfU+7I6Y2ACeLxFZ Wtyi1QBbD79to3bcE/XXxg0= =JXPo -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Hosting the Debian/kCygwin port?
Hi. Sjors Gielen wrote: Now I'm wondering where to host this project. I've been thinking about three locations: Sourceforge, Debian or Cygwin. I've filed a project takeover request for Sourceforge, but the original project admin seems to work against me a little and it doesn't seem fit to release there. debian-cygwin.sf.net is a Debian GNU/w32 port and I see no reason to remove the project page on Sourceforge. Although there are no releases, there has been some work done (see http://lists.debian.org/debian-win32/) and this site should IMHO at least reside for historical reasons. Maybe there is a chance to reanimate this project or at least reuse some of the work that has been done or concepts that have been developed. You called your port Debian/kCygwin, so why don't you prefer debian-kcygwin instead of debian-cygwin as Sourceforge project name? The former is still available. A few comments about the name: - Debian GNU/kCygwin seems to fit better since you use a GNU userland and Debian people tend to share the FSF view about naming operating systems. - The k means normally kernel of. The idea is probably born because Debian GNU/FreeBSD was already taken by a port that used the libc from FreeBSD. Later IIRC Robert Milan had the idea to use the GNU libc for a Debian FreeBSD Port and only the kernel from FreeBSD. This makes porting single packages a lot easier but requires porting glibc first (the FreeBSD specific diff against glibc is IIRC about 1 MB). Since the largest part of the project would be the packages in their new Debian source and binary forms, I at least need an apt repository. The Debian project already has the structure for that ... You can create the repository yourself using eg. reprepro until your port is more integrated into the Debian infrastructure. I don't think that you will get the permission to host your port on debian-ports.org and thus make this port semi-official before you prove that there has been a significant amount of work done since you are yet unknown among the Debian developers and currently no Debian developer is working with you on this. Debian operates an own Sourceforge clone but this is hosted on a single server with a relatively small harddisk, so this is not an option for hosting. I would first host it on Sourceforge using a not already taken project name and after you are able to show first results try to move it to debian-ports.org. Chances that it will be hosted on debian-ports.org and be integrated in the whole Debian infrastructure are way better when you are able to provide some working packages, at least required, important and a subset of standard and optional (I think about things like perl and build-essential including its dependencies as a useful subset of standard and optional). The reasons for the relatively few responses to your mail are probably that most Debian people are not that interested in Windows in general and that you did not provide pointers to the work you have done until now. When you look at the subscriber count of debian-win32 you see that there are at least some people that are interested in such things (it has even more subscribers than debian-qa or debian-www). Such a big project is easier to do when you work together with other people, a more detailed mail with pointers to code and/or specifications to debian-wi...@lists.debian.org might be a good way to find those. I wish you much fun and success with your port Carsten -- Please CC me, I don't read this list regularly. -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Hosting the Debian/kCygwin port?
Sjors Gielen wrote: ... but the Cygwin packages are different from their Debian counterparts (think patches), and I'm not sure how that happens with other ports. debian-devel, is this a problem? No, this is no problem. Debian GNU/kFreeBSD also uses additional patches. Carsten -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Hosting the Debian/kCygwin port?
Hello,
Just a comment about the debian-win32 project: I can read from the list
archive that the main issue was that the VFS doesn't allow to remove or
to overwrite through mv a file in use. IIRC that issue got fixed not so
many months ago in cygwin, and I can confirm that it now seems to work:
$ cat test.c
#include fcntl.h
int main(void) {
int fd = open(blip, O_RDONLY);
pause();
}
$ gcc test.c -o test
$ touch blip
$ ./test
$ rm blip
$ touch blip
$ ./test
$ touch blop
$ mv blop blip
So maybe debian-win32 could just be awaken since the barring issue seems gone?
Samuel
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Re: Hosting the Debian/kCygwin port?
Hey, Thanks for all your answers! Carsten Hey wrote: On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 11:14:24AM +0100, Samuel Thibault wrote: So maybe debian-win32 could just be awaken since the barring issue seems gone? This is what I would try first. I hope you are successful with this. Carsten I was using Cygwin 1.5 when I started working on this. I indeed noticed that in Cygwin CVS this has been fixed already. Carsten Hey wrote: debian-cygwin.sf.net is a Debian GNU/w32 port and I see no reason to remove the project page on Sourceforge. Although there are no releases, there has been some work done (see http://lists.debian.org/debian-win32/) and this site should IMHO at least reside for historical reasons. Maybe there is a chance to reanimate this project or at least reuse some of the work that has been done or concepts that have been developed. I started with the idea when I noticed this project. It had been dead for a few years, and I liked the idea and looked into it. I had some contact with the original admin. He added me to the project, created an SVN repository on my request, but refused to make me an admin, which is needed to i.e. modify the project web frontend. When I filed a project takeover, the admin removed my SVN commit access. Everything currently in SVN is mine (and that's not much, but I've got a lot more waiting here, until I can commit it somewhere.) CVS only contains the same old dpkg sources twice, and some binary builds. I'm still waiting for the admin to either accept or reject the project takeover request. I don't have a lot of hope there, he seems to be working against me. I also e-mailed the debian-ports admin, and he said the same as you: there needs to be a base system before it can be hosted there. Base system means gcc, g++, dpkg-dev, etc. For now, I will keep working on the project locally, until I can host everything I have now at Sourceforge. Once I have a base system going, I'll e-mail the debian-ports admin again. Again, thanks for your replies! Sjors -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Hosting the Debian/kCygwin port?
Sjors Gielen, le Wed 21 Jan 2009 13:28:55 +0100, a écrit : I started with the idea when I noticed this project. It had been dead for a few years, and I liked the idea and looked into it. I had some contact with the original admin. He added me to the project, created an SVN repository on my request, but refused to make me an admin, which is needed to i.e. modify the project web frontend. Did you tell him so? When I filed a project takeover, the admin removed my SVN commit access. I could understand that if you didn't ask for admin rights and explaining why. I'm still waiting for the admin to either accept or reject the project takeover request. I don't have a lot of hope there, he seems to be working against me. Well I'd fork then, thank the free software licenses ;) Samuel -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Hosting the Debian/kCygwin port?
Samuel Thibault schreef: Sjors Gielen, le Wed 21 Jan 2009 13:28:55 +0100, a écrit : I started with the idea when I noticed this project. It had been dead for a few years, and I liked the idea and looked into it. I had some contact with the original admin. He added me to the project, created an SVN repository on my request, but refused to make me an admin, which is needed to i.e. modify the project web frontend. Did you tell him so? I didn't tell him I needed admin access, but I did ask for it. (Either way, there's no reason for him not to give access, especially since he hasn't done anything in years.) When I filed a project takeover, the admin removed my SVN commit access. I could understand that if you didn't ask for admin rights and explaining why. I'm still waiting for the admin to either accept or reject the project takeover request. I don't have a lot of hope there, he seems to be working against me. Well I'd fork then, thank the free software licenses ;) I'm planning to start from scratch if this doesn't work out. There's no use forking, there's nothing to fork. :) Sjors -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Hosting the Debian/kCygwin port?
BTW, AIUI from a cygwin point of view, in principle there shouldn't be any need to patch debian sources: if cygwin behaves differently from linux, then it's a bug in cygwin. One exception is of course the configure target which contains cygwin instead of linux. Appart from that, every fix should ideally be in cygwin. Now you're of course free to patch things in the debian package so as to make quick progress, but on the long term there shouldn't be any patch except in configure scripts. Samuel -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Hosting the Debian/kCygwin port?
Tzafrir Cohen schreef: On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 12:49:29AM +0100, Sjors Gielen wrote: Hey lists, I'm working on a project porting the Debian tools to Cygwin. Currently, my plan is to: - Provide some required patches to the Cygwin team, for example to allow a file in use to be removed or modified, since this is required for dpkg - Re-compile all packages and patches currently available for Cygwin into a Debian .deb - Provide either a way to bootstrap Debian onto an existing Cygwin installation, or provide installers for a pure Debian/kCygwin installation. Which libc do you intend to use? Cygwin uses newc, IIRC, but I can't find it packaged in Debian so far. As far as I understand it now, newlib is packed along with Cygwin itself in cygwin1.dll. I'm thinking of a package libcygwin1, which will contain this (and maybe other) dlls. This package will just be created in the process of getting Debian to work on Cygwin :) Sjors -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Hosting the Debian/kCygwin port?
On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 02:24:15PM +0100, Sjors Gielen wrote: Tzafrir Cohen schreef: On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 12:49:29AM +0100, Sjors Gielen wrote: I'm working on a project porting the Debian tools to Cygwin. Currently, my plan is to: - Provide some required patches to the Cygwin team, for example to allow a file in use to be removed or modified, since this is required for dpkg - Re-compile all packages and patches currently available for Cygwin into a Debian .deb - Provide either a way to bootstrap Debian onto an existing Cygwin installation, or provide installers for a pure Debian/kCygwin installation. Which libc do you intend to use? Cygwin uses newc, IIRC, but I can't find it packaged in Debian so far. As far as I understand it now, newlib is packed along with Cygwin itself in cygwin1.dll. I'm thinking of a package libcygwin1, which will contain this (and maybe other) dlls. This package will just be created in the process of getting Debian to work on Cygwin :) I think that no one answered your original question. We are not interested in hosting your project at sourceware.org and discussion of it in this mailing list is not really on-topic for the Cywgin list. The Cygwin mailing list is for discussion about the cygwin release that is hosted at the cygwin web site. Feel free to send a follow-up message with a pointer to the mailing list where you will be continuing any discussion about this topic. I would appreciate it if further discussion was directed there. cgf -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Hosting the Debian/kCygwin port?
Hi, Maybe you could document your works on http://wiki.debian.org/Kernel ? Look at Debian/kFreeBSD for example. Best regards. Salokine. On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 02:24:15PM +0100, Sjors Gielen wrote: Tzafrir Cohen schreef: On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 12:49:29AM +0100, Sjors Gielen wrote: I'm working on a project porting the Debian tools to Cygwin. Currently, my plan is to: - Provide some required patches to the Cygwin team, for example to allow a file in use to be removed or modified, since this is required for dpkg - Re-compile all packages and patches currently available for Cygwin into a Debian .deb - Provide either a way to bootstrap Debian onto an existing Cygwin installation, or provide installers for a pure Debian/kCygwin installation. Which libc do you intend to use? Cygwin uses newc, IIRC, but I can't find it packaged in Debian so far. As far as I understand it now, newlib is packed along with Cygwin itself in cygwin1.dll. I'm thinking of a package libcygwin1, which will contain this (and maybe other) dlls. This package will just be created in the process of getting Debian to work on Cygwin :) I think that no one answered your original question. We are not interested in hosting your project at sourceware.org and discussion of it in this mailing list is not really on-topic for the Cywgin list. The Cygwin mailing list is for discussion about the cygwin release that is hosted at the cygwin web site. Feel free to send a follow-up message with a pointer to the mailing list where you will be continuing any discussion about this topic. I would appreciate it if further discussion was directed there. cgf -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Hosting the Debian/kCygwin port?
Sjors Gielen, le Tue 20 Jan 2009 00:49:29 +0100, a écrit : I'm working on a project porting the Debian tools to Cygwin. Ususally ports are hosted by debian-ports.org. Samuel -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
