Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Test: grep 3.8 - promotion to current stable
On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 15:36:30 +0200, Thomas Wolff wrote: Am 28/10/2022 um 10:20 schrieb Corinna Vinschen: On Oct 28 10:13, Corinna Vinschen wrote: On Oct 28 00:49, Brian Inglis wrote: On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 18:25:45 +0200, Corinna Vinschen wrote On Sep 29 12:55, Brian Inglis wrote: ... I agree so much. People should submit complaint issues upstream, the more the better. It's only not so easy to find a way to submit a Gnu tool bug :( Always easy with GNU mailto:bug-g...@gnu.org Archives at https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-grep/ - see long September and October threads: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-grep/2022-09/threads.html https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-grep/2022-10/threads.html In general for GNU packages: project @ https://sv.gnu.org/p/PKG home page @ https://gnu.org/s/PKG docs@ https://gnu.org/s/PKG/manual/ MLs @ https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-PKG/ bugs@ mailto:bug-...@gnu.org -- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada La perfection est atteinte Perfection is achieved non pas lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à ajouter not when there is no more to add mais lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à retirerbut when there is no more to cut -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Test: grep 3.8 - promotion to current stable
Am 13.11.2022 um 23:13 schrieb Brian Inglis: On Sun, 13 Nov 2022 18:09:19 +0100, Thomas Wolff wrote: Am 04.11.2022 um 20:27 schrieb Corinna Vinschen: On Nov 4 13:07, Brian Inglis wrote: On Thu, 03 Nov 2022 19:31:27 +0100, Achim Gratz wrote: Brian Inglis writes: Suggest that I could come up with a package grep-nowarn which can only suppress the [ef]grep warnings, where the package would install [ef]grep-nowarn, and the postinstall script could rename the distributed shell scripts to [ef]grep-warn, and install alternatives with -warn priority 10, -nowarn priority 20; preremove would reverse the process. Suggestions to accommodate -nowarn from grep package postinstall? I could supply the same postinstall and preremove as -nowarn to check for -nowarn and install or uninstall the alternative. Sequence or timing issues to watch out for during postinstall/preremove? As Corinna already said, why GNU suddenly cares so much about strict POSIX conformance in this case is puzzling. If anything they should have left the decision to packagers and IMNHO the warning should only be presented when POSIXLY_CORRECT is set in the environment, if at all. The patch to the wrapper script(s) in question is trivial and several Linux distributions have removed the warning already (if you do this, also change the interpreter from bash to dash). Just skip any extra packages and do the same. The issue does not appear to be about POSIX compliance, but that [ef]grep were dropped from POSIX before 2008 and declared obsolescent, so the maintainers appear to be looking to drop those commands/scripts. This is a usability issue. If upstream thinks they have to do such a potentially destructive and backward-incompatible change for no other reason than "is not in POSIX", they can do so, but there's no good reason the distros who *care* for usability have to do this either. You could perhaps reach out to Eric Blake or Jim Meyering who are in the GNU grep contributor lists for rationale. While Debian and OpenSuSE have reverted that change, Fedora has not in main or rawhide. Right, Debian and OpenSuSE revert the change and the BSDs will not break e/fgrep either, obviously. I doubt Ubuntu will do that. Fedora often values progress, for a given value of "progress", higher than usability. They will probably see lots of Bugzillas and user requests in other forums due to this change and then ignore them. But that doesn't mean we have to do it. Again: Egrep and fgrep are used in lots of scripts around the world. A change like this will have a massive impact for years to come. So, again, in the name of usability, let's follow Debian and OpenSuSE here, not Fedora, please. @Brian, as a grep package maintainer, can you *please* make a trivial patch to remove the grep crap as Corinna suggested and upload an updated package *today*, as Jon Turney threatens to freeze the x86 repository tomorrow? Successfully deployed from Scallywag and announced. Great! Thank you very much.
Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Test: grep 3.8 - promotion to current stable
On Sun, 13 Nov 2022 18:09:19 +0100, Thomas Wolff wrote: Am 04.11.2022 um 20:27 schrieb Corinna Vinschen: On Nov 4 13:07, Brian Inglis wrote: On Thu, 03 Nov 2022 19:31:27 +0100, Achim Gratz wrote: Brian Inglis writes: Suggest that I could come up with a package grep-nowarn which can only suppress the [ef]grep warnings, where the package would install [ef]grep-nowarn, and the postinstall script could rename the distributed shell scripts to [ef]grep-warn, and install alternatives with -warn priority 10, -nowarn priority 20; preremove would reverse the process. Suggestions to accommodate -nowarn from grep package postinstall? I could supply the same postinstall and preremove as -nowarn to check for -nowarn and install or uninstall the alternative. Sequence or timing issues to watch out for during postinstall/preremove? As Corinna already said, why GNU suddenly cares so much about strict POSIX conformance in this case is puzzling. If anything they should have left the decision to packagers and IMNHO the warning should only be presented when POSIXLY_CORRECT is set in the environment, if at all. The patch to the wrapper script(s) in question is trivial and several Linux distributions have removed the warning already (if you do this, also change the interpreter from bash to dash). Just skip any extra packages and do the same. The issue does not appear to be about POSIX compliance, but that [ef]grep were dropped from POSIX before 2008 and declared obsolescent, so the maintainers appear to be looking to drop those commands/scripts. This is a usability issue. If upstream thinks they have to do such a potentially destructive and backward-incompatible change for no other reason than "is not in POSIX", they can do so, but there's no good reason the distros who *care* for usability have to do this either. You could perhaps reach out to Eric Blake or Jim Meyering who are in the GNU grep contributor lists for rationale. While Debian and OpenSuSE have reverted that change, Fedora has not in main or rawhide. Right, Debian and OpenSuSE revert the change and the BSDs will not break e/fgrep either, obviously. I doubt Ubuntu will do that. Fedora often values progress, for a given value of "progress", higher than usability. They will probably see lots of Bugzillas and user requests in other forums due to this change and then ignore them. But that doesn't mean we have to do it. Again: Egrep and fgrep are used in lots of scripts around the world. A change like this will have a massive impact for years to come. So, again, in the name of usability, let's follow Debian and OpenSuSE here, not Fedora, please. @Brian, as a grep package maintainer, can you *please* make a trivial patch to remove the grep crap as Corinna suggested and upload an updated package *today*, as Jon Turney threatens to freeze the x86 repository tomorrow? Successfully deployed from Scallywag and announced. -- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada La perfection est atteinte Perfection is achieved non pas lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à ajouter not when there is no more to add mais lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à retirerbut when there is no more to cut -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Test: grep 3.8 - promotion to current stable
On 2022-11-13 10:09, Thomas Wolff wrote: Am 04.11.2022 um 20:27 schrieb Corinna Vinschen: On Nov 4 13:07, Brian Inglis wrote: On Thu, 03 Nov 2022 19:31:27 +0100, Achim Gratz wrote: Brian Inglis writes: Suggest that I could come up with a package grep-nowarn which can only suppress the [ef]grep warnings, where the package would install [ef]grep-nowarn, and the postinstall script could rename the distributed shell scripts to [ef]grep-warn, and install alternatives with -warn priority 10, -nowarn priority 20; preremove would reverse the process. Suggestions to accommodate -nowarn from grep package postinstall? I could supply the same postinstall and preremove as -nowarn to check for -nowarn and install or uninstall the alternative. Sequence or timing issues to watch out for during postinstall/preremove? As Corinna already said, why GNU suddenly cares so much about strict POSIX conformance in this case is puzzling. If anything they should have left the decision to packagers and IMNHO the warning should only be presented when POSIXLY_CORRECT is set in the environment, if at all. The patch to the wrapper script(s) in question is trivial and several Linux distributions have removed the warning already (if you do this, also change the interpreter from bash to dash). Just skip any extra packages and do the same. The issue does not appear to be about POSIX compliance, but that [ef]grep were dropped from POSIX before 2008 and declared obsolescent, so the maintainers appear to be looking to drop those commands/scripts. This is a usability issue. If upstream thinks they have to do such a potentially destructive and backward-incompatible change for no other reason than "is not in POSIX", they can do so, but there's no good reason the distros who *care* for usability have to do this either. You could perhaps reach out to Eric Blake or Jim Meyering who are in the GNU grep contributor lists for rationale. While Debian and OpenSuSE have reverted that change, Fedora has not in main or rawhide. Right, Debian and OpenSuSE revert the change and the BSDs will not break e/fgrep either, obviously. I doubt Ubuntu will do that. Fedora often values progress, for a given value of "progress", higher than usability. They will probably see lots of Bugzillas and user requests in other forums due to this change and then ignore them. But that doesn't mean we have to do it. Again: Egrep and fgrep are used in lots of scripts around the world. A change like this will have a massive impact for years to come. So, again, in the name of usability, let's follow Debian and OpenSuSE here, not Fedora, please. @Brian, as a grep package maintainer, can you *please* make a trivial patch to remove the grep crap as Corinna suggested and upload an updated package *today*, as Jon Turney threatens to freeze the x86 repository tomorrow? I am trying to do so, but getting weird test artifacts locally, so retrying in hopes that they will complete normally. If there are still issues, I will look at deploying from Scallywag, as those builds completed cleanly. I am also trying to clean up a couple of other package issues, and hopefully don't mess up anything else trying to get these done without any time for actual use. My system is fully loaded running only a single build, and each can take over an hour, about the same time as Scallywag, but without any arch parallelism. [Being the weekend, there are also other things to do and people to see.] -- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada La perfection est atteinte Perfection is achieved non pas lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à ajouter not when there is no more to add mais lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à retirerbut when there is no more to cut -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Test: grep 3.8 - promotion to current stable
Am 04.11.2022 um 20:27 schrieb Corinna Vinschen: On Nov 4 13:07, Brian Inglis wrote: On Thu, 03 Nov 2022 19:31:27 +0100, Achim Gratz wrote: Brian Inglis writes: Suggest that I could come up with a package grep-nowarn which can only suppress the [ef]grep warnings, where the package would install [ef]grep-nowarn, and the postinstall script could rename the distributed shell scripts to [ef]grep-warn, and install alternatives with -warn priority 10, -nowarn priority 20; preremove would reverse the process. Suggestions to accommodate -nowarn from grep package postinstall? I could supply the same postinstall and preremove as -nowarn to check for -nowarn and install or uninstall the alternative. Sequence or timing issues to watch out for during postinstall/preremove? As Corinna already said, why GNU suddenly cares so much about strict POSIX conformance in this case is puzzling. If anything they should have left the decision to packagers and IMNHO the warning should only be presented when POSIXLY_CORRECT is set in the environment, if at all. The patch to the wrapper script(s) in question is trivial and several Linux distributions have removed the warning already (if you do this, also change the interpreter from bash to dash). Just skip any extra packages and do the same. The issue does not appear to be about POSIX compliance, but that [ef]grep were dropped from POSIX before 2008 and declared obsolescent, so the maintainers appear to be looking to drop those commands/scripts. This is a usability issue. If upstream thinks they have to do such a potentially destructive and backward-incompatible change for no other reason than "is not in POSIX", they can do so, but there's no good reason the distros who *care* for usability have to do this either. You could perhaps reach out to Eric Blake or Jim Meyering who are in the GNU grep contributor lists for rationale. While Debian and OpenSuSE have reverted that change, Fedora has not in main or rawhide. Right, Debian and OpenSuSE revert the change and the BSDs will not break e/fgrep either, obviously. I doubt Ubuntu will do that. Fedora often values progress, for a given value of "progress", higher than usability. They will probably see lots of Bugzillas and user requests in other forums due to this change and then ignore them. But that doesn't mean we have to do it. Again: Egrep and fgrep are used in lots of scripts around the world. A change like this will have a massive impact for years to come. So, again, in the name of usability, let's follow Debian and OpenSuSE here, not Fedora, please. @Brian, as a grep package maintainer, can you *please* make a trivial patch to remove the grep crap as Corinna suggested and upload an updated package *today*, as Jon Turney threatens to freeze the x86 repository tomorrow?
Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Test: grep 3.8 - promotion to current stable
On Nov 4 13:07, Brian Inglis wrote: > On Thu, 03 Nov 2022 19:31:27 +0100, Achim Gratz wrote: > > Brian Inglis writes: > > > Suggest that I could come up with a package grep-nowarn which can only > > > suppress the [ef]grep warnings, where the package would install > > > [ef]grep-nowarn, and the postinstall script could rename the > > > distributed shell scripts to [ef]grep-warn, and install alternatives > > > with -warn priority 10, -nowarn priority 20; preremove would reverse > > > the process. > > > > > > Suggestions to accommodate -nowarn from grep package postinstall? > > > I could supply the same postinstall and preremove as -nowarn to check > > > for -nowarn and install or uninstall the alternative. > > > > > > Sequence or timing issues to watch out for during postinstall/preremove? > > > As Corinna already said, why GNU suddenly cares so much about strict > > POSIX conformance in this case is puzzling. If anything they should > > have left the decision to packagers and IMNHO the warning should only be > > presented when POSIXLY_CORRECT is set in the environment, if at all. > > The patch to the wrapper script(s) in question is trivial and several > > Linux distributions have removed the warning already (if you do this, > > also change the interpreter from bash to dash). Just skip any > > extra packages and do the same. > > The issue does not appear to be about POSIX compliance, but that [ef]grep > were dropped from POSIX before 2008 and declared obsolescent, so the > maintainers appear to be looking to drop those commands/scripts. This is a usability issue. If upstream thinks they have to do such a potentially destructive and backward-incompatible change for no other reason than "is not in POSIX", they can do so, but there's no good reason the distros who *care* for usability have to do this either. > > You could perhaps reach out to Eric Blake or Jim Meyering who are in the GNU > grep contributor lists for rationale. > > While Debian and OpenSuSE have reverted that change, Fedora has not in main > or rawhide. Right, Debian and OpenSuSE revert the change and the BSDs will not break e/fgrep either, obviously. I doubt Ubuntu will do that. Fedora often values progress, for a given value of "progress", higher than usability. They will probably see lots of Bugzillas and user requests in other forums due to this change and then ignore them. But that doesn't mean we have to do it. Again: Egrep and fgrep are used in lots of scripts around the world. A change like this will have a massive impact for years to come. So, again, in the name of usability, let's follow Debian and OpenSuSE here, not Fedora, please. Corinna
Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Test: grep 3.8 - promotion to current stable
On Thu, 03 Nov 2022 19:31:27 +0100, Achim Gratz wrote: Brian Inglis writes: Suggest that I could come up with a package grep-nowarn which can only suppress the [ef]grep warnings, where the package would install [ef]grep-nowarn, and the postinstall script could rename the distributed shell scripts to [ef]grep-warn, and install alternatives with -warn priority 10, -nowarn priority 20; preremove would reverse the process. Suggestions to accommodate -nowarn from grep package postinstall? I could supply the same postinstall and preremove as -nowarn to check for -nowarn and install or uninstall the alternative. Sequence or timing issues to watch out for during postinstall/preremove? As Corinna already said, why GNU suddenly cares so much about strict POSIX conformance in this case is puzzling. If anything they should have left the decision to packagers and IMNHO the warning should only be presented when POSIXLY_CORRECT is set in the environment, if at all. The patch to the wrapper script(s) in question is trivial and several Linux distributions have removed the warning already (if you do this, also change the interpreter from bash to dash). Just skip any extra packages and do the same. The issue does not appear to be about POSIX compliance, but that [ef]grep were dropped from POSIX before 2008 and declared obsolescent, so the maintainers appear to be looking to drop those commands/scripts. You could perhaps reach out to Eric Blake or Jim Meyering who are in the GNU grep contributor lists for rationale. While Debian and OpenSuSE have reverted that change, Fedora has not in main or rawhide. -- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada La perfection est atteinte Perfection is achieved non pas lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à ajouter not when there is no more to add mais lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à retirerbut when there is no more to cut -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Test: grep 3.8 - promotion to current stable
On Nov 3 19:31, Achim Gratz wrote: > Brian Inglis writes: > > Suggest that I could come up with a package grep-nowarn which can only > > suppress the [ef]grep warnings, where the package would install > > [ef]grep-nowarn, and the postinstall script could rename the > > distributed shell scripts to [ef]grep-warn, and install alternatives > > with -warn priority 10, -nowarn priority 20; preremove would reverse > > the process. > > > > Suggestions to accommodate -nowarn from grep package postinstall? > > I could supply the same postinstall and preremove as -nowarn to check > > for -nowarn and install or uninstall the alternative. > > > > Sequence or timing issues to watch out for during postinstall/preremove? > > As Corinna already said, why GNU suddenly cares so much about strict > POSIX conformance in this case is puzzling. If anything they should > have left the decision to packagers and IMNHO the warning should only be > presented when POSIXLY_CORRECT is set in the environment, if at all. > The patch to the wrapper script(s) in question is trivial and several > Linux distributions have removed the warning already (if you do this, > also change the interpreter from bash to dash). Just skip any > extra packages and do the same. +1 Corinna
Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Test: grep 3.8 - promotion to current stable
Brian Inglis writes: > Suggest that I could come up with a package grep-nowarn which can only > suppress the [ef]grep warnings, where the package would install > [ef]grep-nowarn, and the postinstall script could rename the > distributed shell scripts to [ef]grep-warn, and install alternatives > with -warn priority 10, -nowarn priority 20; preremove would reverse > the process. > > Suggestions to accommodate -nowarn from grep package postinstall? > I could supply the same postinstall and preremove as -nowarn to check > for -nowarn and install or uninstall the alternative. > > Sequence or timing issues to watch out for during postinstall/preremove? As Corinna already said, why GNU suddenly cares so much about strict POSIX conformance in this case is puzzling. If anything they should have left the decision to packagers and IMNHO the warning should only be presented when POSIXLY_CORRECT is set in the environment, if at all. The patch to the wrapper script(s) in question is trivial and several Linux distributions have removed the warning already (if you do this, also change the interpreter from bash to dash). Just skip any extra packages and do the same. Regards, Achim. -- +<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+ Factory and User Sound Singles for Waldorf Blofeld: http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfSounds
Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Test: grep 3.8 - promotion to current stable
From: gs-cygwin@gluelogic.com To: cygwin-apps@cygwin.com Subject: Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Test: grep 3.8 - promotion to current stable Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2022 08:40:32 -0400 [thread overview] Message-ID: (raw) In-Reply-To: On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 12:49:37AM -0600, Brian Inglis wrote: On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 18:25:45 +0200, Corinna Vinschen wrote > On Sep 29 12:55, Brian Inglis wrote: > > > /usr/share/doc/grep/ChangeLog > > > https://git.sv.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=grep.git;a=log;h=refs/tags/v3.8 > > > > The change note below states that egrep and fgrep are deprecated > > > obsolescent commands, will be dropped in future, and from this release > > > until then, every use will show a stderr warning message, reminding you > > > how to change your commands and scripts: > > > > $ egrep ... > > > egrep: warning: egrep is obsolescent; using grep -E > > > ... > > > $ fgrep ... > > > fgrep: warning: fgrep is obsolescent; using grep -F > > > ... > Please do everyone a favor and remove those warnings. egrep and fgrep > are used abundantly in existing scripts and the user often has no choice > or no knowledge how to fix this. If this is an upstream change, it's a > bad one, breaking backward compatibility. Please fix this at least for > our distro. This was released as test at the start of September, reiterated at the end of September on this list, then promoted to current stable and announced early October: Planning for the future, could the grep package provide egrep and fgrep in /etc/alternatives? Then a new (optional) package, say "grepfe" could provide /etc/alternative shell scripts (or binaries) which called grep -F and grep -E. Suggest that I could come up with a package grep-nowarn which can only suppress the [ef]grep warnings, where the package would install [ef]grep-nowarn, and the postinstall script could rename the distributed shell scripts to [ef]grep-warn, and install alternatives with -warn priority 10, -nowarn priority 20; preremove would reverse the process. Suggestions to accommodate -nowarn from grep package postinstall? I could supply the same postinstall and preremove as -nowarn to check for -nowarn and install or uninstall the alternative. Sequence or timing issues to watch out for during postinstall/preremove? -- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada La perfection est atteinte Perfection is achieved non pas lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à ajouter not when there is no more to add mais lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à retirerbut when there is no more to cut -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Test: grep 3.8 - promotion to current stable
On Oct 28 08:40, gs-cygwin@gluelogic.com wrote: > On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 12:49:37AM -0600, Brian Inglis wrote: > > On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 18:25:45 +0200, Corinna Vinschen wrote > > > On Sep 29 12:55, Brian Inglis wrote: > > > > > /usr/share/doc/grep/ChangeLog > > > > > https://git.sv.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=grep.git;a=log;h=refs/tags/v3.8 > > > > > > The change note below states that egrep and fgrep are deprecated > > > > > obsolescent commands, will be dropped in future, and from this release > > > > > until then, every use will show a stderr warning message, reminding > > > > > you > > > > > how to change your commands and scripts: > > > > > > $ egrep ... > > > > > egrep: warning: egrep is obsolescent; using grep -E > > > > > ... > > > > > $ fgrep ... > > > > > fgrep: warning: fgrep is obsolescent; using grep -F > > > > > ... > > > > > Please do everyone a favor and remove those warnings. egrep and fgrep > > > are used abundantly in existing scripts and the user often has no choice > > > or no knowledge how to fix this. If this is an upstream change, it's a > > > bad one, breaking backward compatibility. Please fix this at least for > > > our distro. > > > > This was released as test at the start of September, reiterated at the end > > of September on this list, then promoted to current stable and announced > > early October: > > Planning for the future, could the grep package provide egrep and fgrep > in /etc/alternatives? Then a new (optional) package, say "grepfe" could > provide /etc/alternative shell scripts (or binaries) which called > grep -F and grep -E. That would be a feasible workaround. Corinna
Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Test: grep 3.8 - promotion to current stable
Am 28/10/2022 um 10:20 schrieb Corinna Vinschen: On Oct 28 10:13, Corinna Vinschen wrote: On Oct 28 00:49, Brian Inglis wrote: On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 18:25:45 +0200, Corinna Vinschen wrote On Sep 29 12:55, Brian Inglis wrote: /usr/share/doc/grep/ChangeLog https://git.sv.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=grep.git;a=log;h=refs/tags/v3.8 The change note below states that egrep and fgrep are deprecated obsolescent commands, will be dropped in future, and from this release until then, every use will show a stderr warning message, reminding you how to change your commands and scripts: $ egrep ... egrep: warning: egrep is obsolescent; using grep -E ... $ fgrep ... fgrep: warning: fgrep is obsolescent; using grep -F ... Please do everyone a favor and remove those warnings. egrep and fgrep are used abundantly in existing scripts and the user often has no choice or no knowledge how to fix this. If this is an upstream change, it's a bad one, breaking backward compatibility. Please fix this at least for our distro. This was released as test at the start of September, reiterated at the end of September on this list, then promoted to current stable and announced early October: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/info-gnu/2022-09/msg1.html I was AFK from mid-September until mid-October, so I only niticed this on my return. I received no feedback to these notices on the announce, cygwin and apps lists from users, maintainers, or developers. This release is in Fedora Rawhide unpatched and targeted for Fedora 38. Please note that these warnings are giving notice that egrep and fgrep have been deprecated as obsolescent for 15 years and will be dropped as commands as they have never been in POSIX, GREP_COLOR is obsolescent and treated like GREP_COLORS, unspecified or invalid regular expression warning diagnostics are now being issued on stderr as they will be treated as errors in future releases, "binary file matches" messages on stderr may no longer be suppressed, and invalid bracket expressions are now being treated as errors, with appropriate diagnostics and exit codes. I'm aware of that, but upstream is obviously missing the fact that egrep and fgrep have been part of the history for so long that they are part of the UNIX gene pool. As I said there are scripts out there using egrep and fgrep. I, for one, can easily tweak the scripts, but not every user will be able to do so, missing the knowledge or admin privileges. There are also the old (and I mean old) users out there who have an ingrained habit to use egrep and fgrep since it was *always* part of UNIX. The warnings are really just a PITA. Oh, and the BSDs will very certainly keep egrep and fgrep forever, without the dreaded warnings... I don't even understand why they are so "bad" that they have to be removed. What a weird idea. I agree so much. People should submit complaint issues upstream, the more the better. It's only not so easy to find a way to submit a Gnu tool bug :(
Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Test: grep 3.8 - promotion to current stable
On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 12:49:37AM -0600, Brian Inglis wrote: > On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 18:25:45 +0200, Corinna Vinschen wrote > > On Sep 29 12:55, Brian Inglis wrote: > > > > /usr/share/doc/grep/ChangeLog > > > > https://git.sv.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=grep.git;a=log;h=refs/tags/v3.8 > > > > > The change note below states that egrep and fgrep are deprecated > > > > obsolescent commands, will be dropped in future, and from this release > > > > until then, every use will show a stderr warning message, reminding you > > > > how to change your commands and scripts: > > > > > $ egrep ... > > > > egrep: warning: egrep is obsolescent; using grep -E > > > > ... > > > > $ fgrep ... > > > > fgrep: warning: fgrep is obsolescent; using grep -F > > > > ... > > > Please do everyone a favor and remove those warnings. egrep and fgrep > > are used abundantly in existing scripts and the user often has no choice > > or no knowledge how to fix this. If this is an upstream change, it's a > > bad one, breaking backward compatibility. Please fix this at least for > > our distro. > > This was released as test at the start of September, reiterated at the end > of September on this list, then promoted to current stable and announced > early October: Planning for the future, could the grep package provide egrep and fgrep in /etc/alternatives? Then a new (optional) package, say "grepfe" could provide /etc/alternative shell scripts (or binaries) which called grep -F and grep -E. Cheers, Glenn
Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Test: grep 3.8 - promotion to current stable
On Oct 28 10:13, Corinna Vinschen wrote: > On Oct 28 00:49, Brian Inglis wrote: > > On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 18:25:45 +0200, Corinna Vinschen wrote > > > On Sep 29 12:55, Brian Inglis wrote: > > > > > /usr/share/doc/grep/ChangeLog > > > > > https://git.sv.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=grep.git;a=log;h=refs/tags/v3.8 > > > > > > The change note below states that egrep and fgrep are deprecated > > > > > obsolescent commands, will be dropped in future, and from this release > > > > > until then, every use will show a stderr warning message, reminding > > > > > you > > > > > how to change your commands and scripts: > > > > > > $ egrep ... > > > > > egrep: warning: egrep is obsolescent; using grep -E > > > > > ... > > > > > $ fgrep ... > > > > > fgrep: warning: fgrep is obsolescent; using grep -F > > > > > ... > > > > > Please do everyone a favor and remove those warnings. egrep and fgrep > > > are used abundantly in existing scripts and the user often has no choice > > > or no knowledge how to fix this. If this is an upstream change, it's a > > > bad one, breaking backward compatibility. Please fix this at least for > > > our distro. > > > > This was released as test at the start of September, reiterated at the end > > of September on this list, then promoted to current stable and announced > > early October: > > > > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/info-gnu/2022-09/msg1.html > > I was AFK from mid-September until mid-October, so I only niticed this > on my return. > > > I received no feedback to these notices on the announce, cygwin and apps > > lists from users, maintainers, or developers. > > > > This release is in Fedora Rawhide unpatched and targeted for Fedora 38. > > > > Please note that these warnings are giving notice that egrep and fgrep have > > been deprecated as obsolescent for 15 years and will be dropped as commands > > as they have never been in POSIX, GREP_COLOR is obsolescent and treated like > > GREP_COLORS, unspecified or invalid regular expression warning diagnostics > > are now being issued on stderr as they will be treated as errors in future > > releases, "binary file matches" messages on stderr may no longer be > > suppressed, and invalid bracket expressions are now being treated as errors, > > with appropriate diagnostics and exit codes. > > I'm aware of that, but upstream is obviously missing the fact that > egrep and fgrep have been part of the history for so long that they > are part of the UNIX gene pool. As I said there are scripts out > there using egrep and fgrep. I, for one, can easily tweak the > scripts, but not every user will be able to do so, missing the > knowledge or admin privileges. > > There are also the old (and I mean old) users out there who have an > ingrained habit to use egrep and fgrep since it was *always* part > of UNIX. The warnings are really just a PITA. Oh, and the BSDs will very certainly keep egrep and fgrep forever, without the dreaded warnings... I don't even understand why they are so "bad" that they have to be removed. What a weird idea. Corinna
Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Test: grep 3.8 - promotion to current stable
On Oct 28 00:49, Brian Inglis wrote: > On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 18:25:45 +0200, Corinna Vinschen wrote > > On Sep 29 12:55, Brian Inglis wrote: > > > > /usr/share/doc/grep/ChangeLog > > > > https://git.sv.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=grep.git;a=log;h=refs/tags/v3.8 > > > > > The change note below states that egrep and fgrep are deprecated > > > > obsolescent commands, will be dropped in future, and from this release > > > > until then, every use will show a stderr warning message, reminding you > > > > how to change your commands and scripts: > > > > > $ egrep ... > > > > egrep: warning: egrep is obsolescent; using grep -E > > > > ... > > > > $ fgrep ... > > > > fgrep: warning: fgrep is obsolescent; using grep -F > > > > ... > > > Please do everyone a favor and remove those warnings. egrep and fgrep > > are used abundantly in existing scripts and the user often has no choice > > or no knowledge how to fix this. If this is an upstream change, it's a > > bad one, breaking backward compatibility. Please fix this at least for > > our distro. > > This was released as test at the start of September, reiterated at the end > of September on this list, then promoted to current stable and announced > early October: > > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/info-gnu/2022-09/msg1.html I was AFK from mid-September until mid-October, so I only niticed this on my return. > I received no feedback to these notices on the announce, cygwin and apps > lists from users, maintainers, or developers. > > This release is in Fedora Rawhide unpatched and targeted for Fedora 38. > > Please note that these warnings are giving notice that egrep and fgrep have > been deprecated as obsolescent for 15 years and will be dropped as commands > as they have never been in POSIX, GREP_COLOR is obsolescent and treated like > GREP_COLORS, unspecified or invalid regular expression warning diagnostics > are now being issued on stderr as they will be treated as errors in future > releases, "binary file matches" messages on stderr may no longer be > suppressed, and invalid bracket expressions are now being treated as errors, > with appropriate diagnostics and exit codes. I'm aware of that, but upstream is obviously missing the fact that egrep and fgrep have been part of the history for so long that they are part of the UNIX gene pool. As I said there are scripts out there using egrep and fgrep. I, for one, can easily tweak the scripts, but not every user will be able to do so, missing the knowledge or admin privileges. There are also the old (and I mean old) users out there who have an ingrained habit to use egrep and fgrep since it was *always* part of UNIX. The warnings are really just a PITA. Corinna
Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Test: grep 3.8 - promotion to current stable
On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 18:25:45 +0200, Corinna Vinschen wrote On Sep 29 12:55, Brian Inglis wrote: >/usr/share/doc/grep/ChangeLog >https://git.sv.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=grep.git;a=log;h=refs/tags/v3.8 > > The change note below states that egrep and fgrep are deprecated > obsolescent commands, will be dropped in future, and from this release > until then, every use will show a stderr warning message, reminding you > how to change your commands and scripts: > > $ egrep ... >egrep: warning: egrep is obsolescent; using grep -E >... >$ fgrep ... >fgrep: warning: fgrep is obsolescent; using grep -F >... Please do everyone a favor and remove those warnings. egrep and fgrep are used abundantly in existing scripts and the user often has no choice or no knowledge how to fix this. If this is an upstream change, it's a bad one, breaking backward compatibility. Please fix this at least for our distro. This was released as test at the start of September, reiterated at the end of September on this list, then promoted to current stable and announced early October: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/info-gnu/2022-09/msg1.html and these issues were SlashDotted then: https://news.slashdot.org/story/22/09/05/0135254/gnu-grep-38-starts-issuing-warnings-about-using-egrep-and-fgrep https://inbox.sourceware.org/cygwin-announce/20220904140803.17862-1-brian.ing...@systematicsw.ab.ca/ https://inbox.sourceware.org/cygwin-apps/021f494d-dac8-12b2-b49d-7bf6d5606...@systematicsw.ab.ca/ https://inbox.sourceware.org/cygwin-announce/2022100219.36122-1-brian.ing...@systematicsw.ab.ca/ I received no feedback to these notices on the announce, cygwin and apps lists from users, maintainers, or developers. This release is in Fedora Rawhide unpatched and targeted for Fedora 38. Please note that these warnings are giving notice that egrep and fgrep have been deprecated as obsolescent for 15 years and will be dropped as commands as they have never been in POSIX, GREP_COLOR is obsolescent and treated like GREP_COLORS, unspecified or invalid regular expression warning diagnostics are now being issued on stderr as they will be treated as errors in future releases, "binary file matches" messages on stderr may no longer be suppressed, and invalid bracket expressions are now being treated as errors, with appropriate diagnostics and exit codes. I will not be suprised if Paul enforces these changes in the next release, in about a year. -- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada La perfection est atteinte Perfection is achieved non pas lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à ajouter not when there is no more to add mais lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à retirerbut when there is no more to cut -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Test: grep 3.8 - promotion to current stable
Hi Brian, On Sep 29 12:55, Brian Inglis wrote: > Hi folks, [Please Reply All as ISP blocking Cygwin lists] > [...] > > /usr/share/doc/grep/ChangeLog > > https://git.sv.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=grep.git;a=log;h=refs/tags/v3.8 > > > > The change note below states that egrep and fgrep are deprecated > > obsolescent commands, will be dropped in future, and from this release > > until then, every use will show a stderr warning message, reminding you > > how to change your commands and scripts: > > > > $ egrep ... > > egrep: warning: egrep is obsolescent; using grep -E > > ... > > $ fgrep ... > > fgrep: warning: fgrep is obsolescent; using grep -F > > ... Please do everyone a favor and remove those warnings. egrep and fgrep are used abundantly in existing scripts and the user often has no choice or no knowledge how to fix this. If this is an upstream change, it's a bad one, breaking backward compatibility. Please fix this at least for our distro. Thanks, Corinna
Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Test: grep 3.8 - promotion to current stable
Hi folks, [Please Reply All as ISP blocking Cygwin lists]
I would like to untest and promote this test package to current stable
this coming weekend, which may result in command and escape warnings
appearing, unless anyone would like more time to release package
updates, to avoid causing these command and escape warnings, which may
result in support emails.
See release notes at bottom for more details, install the test package
to see the warnings, and see the suggestions below for checks.
Since installing this test package, I have noticed command and escape
warnings on stderr from various other packages during operations and
cygport builds, but nothing so far has produced errors and failed.
Please email this list, and CC me as requested, if you would like me to
further postpone release of this package upgrade.
--
Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis, Calgary, Alberta, Canada
On 2022-09-04 14:08, Cygwin grep Co-Maintainer wrote:
The following package has been uploaded for testing to the Cygwin distribution:
* grep 3.8
GNU grep searches one or more input files for lines containing a match
to a specified pattern. By default, grep outputs the matching lines. The
GNU implementation includes several useful extensions over POSIX.
For more information see the project home pages:
https://www.gnu.org/software/grep/
https://sv.gnu.org/projects/grep/
For changes since the previous Cygwin release please see below or read
/usr/share/doc/grep/NEWS after installation; for complete details see:
/usr/share/doc/grep/ChangeLog
https://git.sv.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=grep.git;a=log;h=refs/tags/v3.8
The change note below states that egrep and fgrep are deprecated
obsolescent commands, will be dropped in future, and from this release
until then, every use will show a stderr warning message, reminding you
how to change your commands and scripts:
$ egrep ...
egrep: warning: egrep is obsolescent; using grep -E
...
$ fgrep ...
fgrep: warning: fgrep is obsolescent; using grep -F
...
Other usages documented below also now generate stderr warning or
error messages.
This is a test release due to those breaking interface changes, and
will not be released as current stable for a few weeks, once we
understand any impact on current packages and systems.
All users worried about breakage should install this package in a test
environment and validate whether it breaks their current systems.
Package maintainers should check that their installed packages and
scripts do not generate, issue, or use the deprecated obsolescent
commands or features, and any impacts on their future builds.
Many configure, ltmain.sh, and test scripts contain egrep tests
that may produce stderr warning messages.
So far, I have only seen egrep warning messages from *cygport*.
Please let me know directly if any of your packages are impacted,
and you can not mitigate any impacts in a few weeks, and how long
until you expect to be able to mitigate any impacts.
Please also CC cygwin-apps for others, as my ISP has blocked it!
Noteworthy changes in release 3.8 (2022-09-02) [stable]
Changes in behavior
* The -P option is now based on PCRE2 instead of the older PCRE,
thanks to code contributed by Carlo Arenas.
* The egrep and fgrep commands, which have been deprecated since
release 2.5.3 (2007), now warn that they are obsolescent and should
be replaced by grep -E and grep -F.
* The confusing GREP_COLOR environment variable is now obsolescent.
Instead of GREP_COLOR='xxx', use GREP_COLORS='mt=xxx'. grep now
warns if GREP_COLOR is used and is not overridden by GREP_COLORS.
Also, grep now treats GREP_COLOR like GREP_COLORS by silently
ignoring it if it attempts to inject ANSI terminal escapes.
* Regular expressions with stray backslashes now cause warnings, as
their unspecified behavior can lead to unexpected results.
For example, '\a' and 'a' are not always equivalent.
Similarly, regular expressions or subexpressions that start with a
repetition operator now also cause warnings due to their unspecified
behavior; for example, *a(+b|{1}c) now has three reasons to warn.
The warnings are intended as a transition aid; they are likely to be
errors in future releases.
* Regular expressions like [:space:] are now errors even if
POSIXLY_CORRECT is set, since POSIX now allows the GNU behavior.
Bug fixes
* In locales using UTF-8 encoding, the regular expression '.' no
longer sometimes fails to match Unicode characters U+D400 through
U+D7FF (some Hangul Syllables, and Hangul Jamo Extended-B) and
Unicode characters U+108000 through U+10 (half of Supplemental
Private Use Area plane B).
[bug introduced in grep 3.4]
* The -s option no longer suppresses "binary file matches" messages.
[Bug#51860 introduced in grep 3.5]
Documentation improvements
* The manual now covers unspecified behavior in patterns like \x, (+),
