Re: Avoiding the final setup.exe page
On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 01:45:07 -0400, ABCD en.a...@gmail.com wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Christopher Faylor wrote: Also, as far as I can tell, there is no remembering of anything going on now. The buttons are off by default. Is that right or am I missing something in the complicated setup code? - From what I've seen, the buttons are *on* by default, and only default to *off* if the shortcut already exists. If the shortcut is removed, then they turn back on (to my annoyance). Yes, that's the behaviour I see. Just verified with setup-1.7.exe form the Cygwin website. Setup checks the entries for any icons that don't already exist. So if you uncheck the Create icon on Desktop the first time you run setup, then the next time it will be checked again because the icon doesn't exist. If you don't want a desktop icon you must uncheck it every time you run setup. Regards, Chris -- http://www.atomice.com
Re: Avoiding the final setup.exe page
On Sun, 20 Sep 2009, Christopher Faylor wrote: People have complained about the final setup.exe page which asks about creating an icon, etc. What's the best way to stop that page from showing up every time you run setup.exe? Should it only be asked on the very first installation (easy) or should there be a Don't ask this question again (harder)? And, if that page goes away, should setup.exe just exit when it is done or should it still have something that you click? FWIW, I think the current behavior of remembering past choices and giving the option to change them, while at the same time showing a positive notification of success full completion, is just fine the way it is. AFAIK, the success full completion page is industry standard for Windows installers. -- Brian Ford Staff Realtime Software Engineer VITAL - Visual Simulation Systems FlightSafety International the best safety device in any aircraft is a well-trained crew...
Re: Avoiding the final setup.exe page
Christopher Faylor wrote: People have complained about the final setup.exe page which asks about creating an icon, etc. What's the best way to stop that page from showing up every time you run setup.exe? Should it only be asked on the very first installation (easy) or should there be a Don't ask this question again (harder)? And, if that page goes away, should setup.exe just exit when it is done or should it still have something that you click? We have to have /some/ kind of final page to let people know that setup completed successfully, if it just suddenly exits it will look like it might have crashed. Given that, it's just common sense to put those buttons onto it. I think the buttons should behave like one-shots, I don't think they should remember their settings, and I think they should default on for a first install only. Also I think the complaints would probably go away if we relaid-out that page so that the main central area was just a Congrats, setup completed OK message and the buttons were small and out of the way in the lower part of the page somewhere, rather than being the central focus of the page. That way people wouldn't feel they were being put through an extra unnecessary step just to be presented with a couple of options they probably don't want 99% of the time; they'd just feel that they were being presented with a completion screen. (We could even add a Launch Cygwin now tickbox under the completed ok message if we wanted to really try and manipulate people's subconscious responses to the page. People complain about it because it's unfamiliar; make it more familiar and they'll not feel uncomfortable when they encounter it.) cheers, DaveK
Re: Avoiding the final setup.exe page
Warren Young wrote: I suggest adding a tag to setup.hint whose value is an icon title, to be used by setup-1.7.exe only. When given, it requests that setup.exe offer to create an icon for that program. #1. WAY too simplistic. How does setup know the appropriate options that the target app should take, when invoked via a shortcut? How can I as a package maintainer specify those things for setup to read them? How can I specify startup directories, the .ico to use (or .dll + iconoffset), etc? And...how can I set up two or more shortcuts for a given package (e.g. rxvt-unicode would have at least two: the standalone urxvt, and the daemon client urxvtc one -- never mind trying to start the urxvtd daemon itself via a shortcut). #2. You're proposing a LOT of new functionality. SMTC -- or at least show me an estimate of how much new code, how many new classes, and how much modification to existing code your proposal will require. -- Chuck
Re: Avoiding the final setup.exe page
On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 04:54:44PM +0100, Dave Korn wrote: Christopher Faylor wrote: People have complained about the final setup.exe page which asks about creating an icon, etc. What's the best way to stop that page from showing up every time you run setup.exe? Should it only be asked on the very first installation (easy) or should there be a Don't ask this question again (harder)? And, if that page goes away, should setup.exe just exit when it is done or should it still have something that you click? We have to have /some/ kind of final page to let people know that setup completed successfully, if it just suddenly exits it will look like it might have crashed. Given that, it's just common sense to put those buttons onto it. I agree. I thought if I didn't mention the option someone else would. I think the buttons should behave like one-shots, I don't think they should remember their settings, and I think they should default on for a first install only. That's easily done. Also I think the complaints would probably go away if we relaid-out that page so that the main central area was just a Congrats, setup completed OK message and the buttons were small and out of the way in the lower part of the page somewhere, rather than being the central focus of the page. That way people wouldn't feel they were being put through an extra unnecessary step just to be presented with a couple of options they probably don't want 99% of the time; they'd just feel that they were being presented with a completion screen. (We could even add a Launch Cygwin now tickbox under the completed ok message if we wanted to really try and manipulate people's subconscious responses to the page. People complain about it because it's unfamiliar; make it more familiar and they'll not feel uncomfortable when they encounter it.) I think all of the above makes sense. Looking at the final scren, it's prominently labelled Create Icons. That is just wrong. Also, as far as I can tell, there is no remembering of anything going on now. The buttons are off by default. Is that right or am I missing something in the complicated setup code? If we have a Launch Cygwin now button that should probably also be on for the first install and off for any subsequent runs. cgf
Re: Avoiding the final setup.exe page
Christopher Faylor wrote: Also, as far as I can tell, there is no remembering of anything going on now. The buttons are off by default. Is that right or am I missing something in the complicated setup code? That's fine if setup.exe only directly creates the cmd.exe based shell icons. It breaks down if setup.exe takes over icon creation for packages, in which case re-running setup.exe can change the set of icons to be created (or removed).
Re: Avoiding the final setup.exe page
On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 01:31:04PM -0600, Warren Young wrote: Christopher Faylor wrote: Also, as far as I can tell, there is no remembering of anything going on now. The buttons are off by default. Is that right or am I missing something in the complicated setup code? That's fine if setup.exe only directly creates the cmd.exe based shell icons. It breaks down if setup.exe takes over icon creation for packages, in which case re-running setup.exe can change the set of icons to be created (or removed). I'm not sure why you quoted me. I was asking a specific question. That's fine doesn't really answer a question. And, for the more general issue that I was asking about, I wasn't looking to reorganize setup.exe code to provide new features. I just wondered what should be done with the final page. That's it. cgf
Re: Avoiding the final setup.exe page
Charles Wilson wrote: I suggest adding a tag to setup.hint whose value is an icon title #1. WAY too simplistic. For some cases, sure. It suffices for many others, though, probably even most others. If you want to add more tags to the design, fine, but for v1.0, these other options should just assume reasonable defaults. How can I specify...the .ico to use (or .dll + iconoffset), etc? The default is to not specify an icon, in which case you get the .exe's default icon. At least at first, I'd rather see effort go into adding a resource section to the .exe with the desired icon in the first position, rather than extending setup.exe to let you pick alternate icons. You might need such a mechanism for a DLL run via a shortcut through rundll32.exe (or similar), but does that actually happen with any current packages? My proposal might have looked like a lot of functionality, but really it was just a thorough explanation of the various states that the new functionality allows. I am not trying to solve 100% of all possible problems with the first design, nor should attempting to do so be a reason not to start down this path. We may eventually achieve this 100% solution, but we don't have to have it to make the first 10% useful. And...how can I set up two or more shortcuts for a given package (e.g. rxvt-unicode would have at least two: the standalone urxvt, and the daemon client urxvtc one -- never mind trying to start the urxvtd daemon itself via a shortcut). This is another 10% thing we don't have to solve today. We can continue to let postinstall scripts handle the complex cases. As setup.exe gets more capable, we can replace more postinstall code with setup.ini hints. SMTC I don't see that in the acronym list. Is it like SHTDI? show me an estimate of how much new code, how many new classes, and how much modification to existing code your proposal will require. I spent over an hour composing my proposal, carefully thinking through and listing all the cases. It's standard software engineering technique to take the use case list at the end of that message into whatever formal design methodology you like. This mapping should be done by the person who will implement it. If that person is me, I don't need to give detailed design here, and if it's someone else, they don't need to show it here, either. Just look through the proposal and see if it is a) useful and b) implementable. Then all that's wanted is an implementor, because we'll have a good, vetted design. If you think I've left something unexplained, or explained it poorly, by all means, ask me about it.
Re: Avoiding the final setup.exe page
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Christopher Faylor wrote: Also, as far as I can tell, there is no remembering of anything going on now. The buttons are off by default. Is that right or am I missing something in the complicated setup code? - From what I've seen, the buttons are *on* by default, and only default to *off* if the shortcut already exists. If the shortcut is removed, then they turn back on (to my annoyance). - -- Jonathan Callen -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkq4ZGMACgkQOypDUo0oQOoAdQCg19gx0W2UMzavTtGPGY6K4Oxg DYIAn1xXmMmOWgzn4f6/++XRq3vlyaft =i0lW -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Avoiding the final setup.exe page
On Sun, 2009-09-20 at 22:36 -0400, Christopher Faylor wrote: People have complained about the final setup.exe page which asks about creating an icon, etc. What's the best way to stop that page from showing up every time you run setup.exe? If the shortcuts exist already, don't ask, or default to unchecked. If the user said no last time, default to unchecked. Mikel
Re: Avoiding the final setup.exe page
On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 12:42:06PM +1000, Mikel Ward wrote: On Sun, 2009-09-20 at 22:36 -0400, Christopher Faylor wrote: People have complained about the final setup.exe page which asks about creating an icon, etc. What's the best way to stop that page from showing up every time you run setup.exe? If the shortcuts exist already, don't ask, or default to unchecked. If the user said no last time, default to unchecked. Most of the above don't seem like a change in behavior. cgf
Re: Avoiding the final setup.exe page
If the shortcuts exist already, don't ask, or default to unchecked. If the user said no last time, default to unchecked. Most of the above don't seem like a change in behavior. Oh, I thought it defaulted to yes every time? At least in 1.5. Mikel
RE: Avoiding the final setup.exe page
20090921024801.ga4...@ednor.casa.cgf.cx Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun=2C 20 Sep 2009 22:48:01 -0400 From: cgf Subject: Re: Avoiding the final setup.exe page On Mon=2C Sep 21=2C 2009 at 12:42:06PM +1000=2C Mikel Ward wrote: On Sun=2C 2009-09-20 at 22:36 -0400=2C Christopher Faylor wrote: People have complained about the final setup.exe page which asks about creating an icon=2C etc. What's the best way to stop that page from showing up every time you run setup.exe? If the shortcuts exist already=2C don't ask=2C or default to unchecked. If the user said no last time=2C default to unchecked. Most of the above don't seem like a change in behavior. =20 Would it be simple to just default to don't create...and the leave the last= page there? That would work fine for me. =20 ...Karl =0A= _=0A= Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail=AE.=0A= http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tut= orial_QuickAdd_062009=
