Re: [packages] gtk+, glib, imlib
Nicholas Wourms wrote: That's true, *sigh*, I know what you mean. Tho I can't quite understand what this driving desire for a rootless X server is all about? To my death, I'll never understand why people like the explorer window manager over the X alternatives. I mean c'mon people, Windows Explorer as a window manager sucks. Why would you want it to manage your X applications? I don't know about most people, but I like the current way X works, in fact I like the full screen even better. In fact I wish there was a way to do the opposite of running X in rootless mode. If there were only a way to get windows binaries to pop up inside X, then I could just ditch this crummy explorer windows manager and use X full time. In fact, on Darwin, I hate the window manager for Aqua. I'd much prefer to run kde3 any day then to run that OpenSTEP look-alike. Windows Explorer isn't a window manager. Windows Explorer is the file manager. It also runs the taskbar, start menu, and desktop. All the movement of windows is handled by the operating systemr. In X, the window managers mainly handle the frames and moving the windows. Various ones do menus, taskbars, desktops, but many leave those to other processes. BTW, it should be possible to run an external window manager in rootless mode. There are two ways to do rootless mode. One is to have an internal window manager in the X server so that Windows handles the movement and sends events to the X server. The second way has an external window manager. In both cases, each top-level X window is mapped to a Windows window instead of one big window like now. In external mode, the windows are bordless since the external window manager draws the frame and converts mouse events into movement. The external mode probably is easier to write only the wrapping code is needed. - Ian -- Ian Burrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.znark.com/
Re: Using only the X server of Cygwin
Rhialto wrote: I am testing the Cygwin/XFree server to use it as a remote display for my Unix box which runs xdm: XWin -broadcast. So in the installer I choose to de-install All, and to install *only* XFree86-xserv. I noted that the installer installed a lot of things that are not necessary for that, such as header files, info files, terminfo stuff, static link libraries, xterm, sh, twm, etc. And it downloaded a lot more which it apparently did not even install, such as bash, diff, diffutils, fileutils, etc. Cygwin setup by default installs all the packages for an Unix environment. The default XFree86 install includes everything for running local X server and programs. More people want this than a minimal remote X setup. I could also do without all those megabytes of fonts, since I have a perfectly ok font server, but apparently no way to specify it for the X server. Add -fp tcp/other:7100 to the XWin command line. Or do xset +fp tcp/other:7100 from a terminal. I also downloaded xwinclip-test06, but that would not work because the X server refused the connection, and I could find no way to do the equivalent of xhost +localhost from its command line. When doing an XDM session, the X server doesn't allow connection from the local machine. You need to do a xhost +localhost from an xterm. So in short, it would be nice to have the installer *just* the files that are required to run XWin -broadcast, and nothing more. That would be the XWin.exe itself, the dlls it really requires, rgb.txt, fonts if no font server can be used, and maybe a few other files I am forgetting. All that doesn't need to take the current 63.263.779 bytes (32.158.116 bytes downloaded). If you want a minimal install, you can select only the packages that are completely necessary: XFree86-base, XFree86-bin, XFree86-etc, XFree86-xserv, and XFree86-lib. - Ian -- Ian Burrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.znark.com/
Re: Cygwin/XFree86 - patches up to Test59
Harold Hunt wrote: All changes from Server Test Series releases Test 56, Test 57, Test 58, and Test 59. Are these patches in the CVS tree for the sourceforge.net xoncygwin project? I am assuming that is where Cygwin/XFree86 development happens and when things are stable they get fed to the XFree86 developers and added to their CVS tree. - Ian -- Ian Burrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.znark.com/
Re: Cut down xfree server for XDMCP only
Robert Collins wrote: Yes. The X install is relatively heavy. I was thinking that you can do the following: Setup your own setup.ini. In that include a package (say XFree86-XDMCP-minimal) for your cut-down X install, minus all the cygwin infrastructure. DON'T include anything with a name the same as cygwin's setup.ini. Include dependency listings that your package has on cygwin packages - should any exist (i.e. various font packages may be useful). Anything that your can't separate out usefully enough, include the content in your package' tarball, OR ask Harold if he is able to split the package out a little. I'm sure some people with a cygwin install would be interested in a cut-down XFree86 install with only XDMCP support. Then tell your users to run setup.exe, add your mirror site to the mirrors list, and to select an official cygwin mirror as well. That should be much smaller, and If they really want a small custom install, couldn't they create a custom setup.ini with only the cygwin packages they want. Put that on a web site to be used instead of a cygwin mirror. BTW, is there any way to automate setup.exe so that users don't have to answer all the questions? setup.exe is great for flexibity with different options for getting and selecting packages. For a school install, the location and packages can be fixed in advanced and the questions reduced to the minimum. - Ian -- Ian Burrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.znark.com/
Re: Cut down xfree server for XDMCP only
Tim Thomson wrote: Recompile cygwin1.dll to look in a different registry location, so we don't use the same location as cygwin. Currently our install modifies the cygwin registry keys, so will break an existing install. Why don't you just make a cygwin package for the stripped down xfree? Most people are going to want some of the cygwin packages. You can make a custom setup.ini that just installs the cygwin dll and stripped xfree. At least don't modify any existing cygwin registry keys. Using the same keys would work as long as it cooperates with an existing or later cygwin install. Fonts included. To reduce size, we have the bare minimum fonts included, but it can use fonts from within windows. One option is using XDMCP is set a font server on the remote machine and use the remote fonts. What are the .a files? Are they linked from the .dlls? Are they used by XWin.exe, or is it just the .dlls? They are used to link programs with the X libraries. They aren't required to run the programs. They really shouldn't be in the XFree86-bin package and belong in the XFree86-devel package. But they are small so it doesn't make much difference. - Ian -- Ian Burrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.znark.com/
Re: Building XWin only
Jehan Bing wrote: I would like to try a quick hack in XWin. So I follow the instruction in http://cygwin.com/xfree/docs/cg/prog-build-native.html. But then, it rebuild everything everytime. Is there a way to rebuild XWin without having to redo everything (no clean, no doc, no fonts, no programs execpt XWin, )? The config files in xc/config/cf control what is built. Create a host.def with your customizations. For example, mine that just builds XWin.exe and supporting libraries looks like: #define BuildLibraries YES #define BuildServersOnly YES #define XnestServer NO #define BuildXprint NO #define XprtServer NO #define XVirtualFramebufferServer NO This is run in a cut down source tree without fonts, docs, or most of the programs. You will need to run a full make World from the base directory to rebuild all the Makefiles etc. You can do make from xc/programs/Xserver to rebuild all servers or xc/programs/Xserver/hw/xwin to just do XWin.exe. - Ian -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.znark.com/
Re: bash ...
Scott Alexander wrote: If you have XWin.exe in the /usr/x11R6/bin directory then it should be installed. Im not sure what doesn't exist when you say: and X is a soft link to XWin (which doesn't exist) In the .tgz packages, /usr/X11R6/bin/X was a symlink to XWin. With Cygwin, XWin doesn't exist, XWin.exe does. This is fixed in the setup packages. - Ian -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.znark.com/
Re: FW: Problem: extreme speed difference NT4 Win98SE runing Xfree
Uwe Schmidtmann wrote: So I guess it is the difference between NT optimization and Win9x. It could also be a difference in multitasking. I wouldn't be surprised if Win98 was slower in multitasking between the X server and clients especially with the Cygwin library and socket communication. You could test this by running an X client from another machine and comparing NT and Win98 performance. - Ian -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.znark.com/
Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] cygwin/xfree86 setup.exe packages available forcomments and testing
Christopher Faylor wrote: On Thu, Apr 18, 2002 at 01:02:51AM -0400, Harold Hunt wrote: Looks like you figured out upset. Sorry about not responding. Actually, I did the same thing that Ian did and reverted to the upset from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvs/src in the directory: winsup/cinstall/temp I'd forgotten about that directory. It's nuked now. Where is the real version? That was the only upset in that CVS repository. Is there some other CVS repository? - Ian -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.znark.com/
Re: xfree packages
Harold Hunt wrote: Ooos... upon actually looking at the list of files I realized that you converted the standard XFree86 tar-gzip files into tar-bz2 files, which isn't really what we are trying to do here. Chris was asking that the XFree86 Cygwin-Setup package files be turned into tar-bz2 files; these packages can be used with Cygwin's Setup to install Cygwin/XFree86 and they are altogether different than the standard XFree86 tar-gzip files. I have uploaded the .tar.bz2 packages to http://www.znark.com/cygwin/. The site is limited in bandwidth so it would be best if someone copied them somewhere permanent. If anyone wants to build their own copies, they can use the build.sh scripts in that directory. It basically unpacks the .tgz files, repackages them in .tar.bz2 files, and shuffles around some of the files. - Ian -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.znark.com/
Re: XFree86 4.2.0 under Cygwin on Win98 w/ i810 won't display CDEfro m HPUX
Michael Reaser wrote: Unfortunately, the PC has an i810, so XWin is giving me fits. It works fine from another PC without the Intel 810 chipset, and works right if I just invoke it from the Bash shell using The chipset shouldn't matter one bit. XWin doesn't use the XFree86 video drivers. I've searched the XFree86 archives, and see a lot of references to getting a copy of agpgart.o and compiling it into your kernel to get an i810 to play nicely. Well, (a) I really don't want to have to re-compile Cygwin for Win98 if someone else already has, (b) I have no idea where to get a copy of agpgart.o which would work in that instance, anyway, and (c) since the HP can communicate to XFree86 just fine in normal mode, I can't believe this is because of a driver issue. Can anyone give me any pointers on what I should do to get XFree86 on an i810 chipset to give me an xdm-based login from another system? And/or tell me what further information I should have included in my message that y'all expect? The first thing to check is that the server works locally. The second thing to check is that you can connect from the remote machine without XDMCP. - Ian -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.znark.com/
Re: How do I run it?
Perry Hutchison wrote: OK, I've installed Cygwin and XFree86 on a Windows 95 system. When I try to run C:\cygwin\usr\X11R6\bin\XWin.exe, I get an error box: Error Starting Program A required .DLL file, CYGWIN1.DLL, was not found. That file does exist, in C:\cygwin\bin. Rebooting does not help. What part of the installation process did I miss? The only things I found in the FAQ that seem even remotely related are 1.8 and 2.3. They mention a startxwin.bat, which I can't find on my system. There's also a mention of a HOW-TO, but the only such file I can find is HOW-TO-CONTRIBUTE which is a little beyond where I've been able to get to so far :) Check your PATH. It needs to include c:\cygwin\bin. How are you trying to run XWin? From a bash shell? From the run box? - Ian -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.znark.com/
Re: XDMCP and Redhat 7.2
Matthew Bradford wrote: First, thank you very much for your time and attention. Now onto the results of your last email: I've tried that before, but I tried it again just to be sure... and still no go. did you get my previous email talking about the connection refused issue? I think this is related. The only way I can get any remote X app to run is when I tunnel it through SSH. Setting the export variable doesn't work. (even when i run xhost + and/or pass the -ac option to the X server) It is acting as if access control is on still. Any ideas on how to fix that? I'll put ya money on it that is the issue. I just have no idea how to fix it. Also, check if you have any .Xauthority files. Try moving the existing ones are regenerating them. If you are running an X server, xauth generate host connects to the server and generates new cookies. You can copy the resulting .Xauthority file to Red Hat 7.2 machine. One thing to try is turn on debugging in the XDMCP server. I don't know how this is done with kdm. xdm has a -debug flag. - Ian -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.znark.com/
Re: xfree packages
Harold Hunt wrote: That sounds fine. Can I also request that you use a seperate variable for the server version number? I'd ask that because the server will tend to get updated often while most of the other packages will never be updated. I'm really looking forward to these packages getting finished. Do you think you've got a handle on creating the symlinks that Xinstall.sh creates? Did you notice any symlinks that were missing? The build.sh script is supposed to create and package the links that Xinstall.sh makes. I don't think Xinstall.sh behaviour is quite right for the xkb files. I posted the xfree86-xwin package and modified xfree86-base to my web site. I have appended the new setup.hint files. - Ian -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.znark.com/ xfree86-base: sdesc: Cygwin/XFree86 base category: XFree86 requires: cygwin ash xfree86-fonts xfree86-xwin ldesc: Cygwin/XFree86 is a port of the X Window System to Cygwin. This package contains the programs, libraries, and config files needed to run an X server and clients. It also include the X clients from the standard X distribution like xterm and twm. You will need to install the xfree86-xwin package with the Windows X server. The xfree86-fonts package is also required. The other packages contain headers, programs, and documentation for development. xfree86-xwin: sdesc: Cygwin/XFree86 Windows X server category: XFree86 requires: cygwin xfree86-base ldesc: XWin is the X server for Windows. It can run in two different modes, full screen or inside Windows window. It has four different engines to drawing, Shadow GDI, Shadow DirectDraw, and Native GDI.
Re: xfree packages
Harold Hunt wrote: Yes, we try to keep things regularized around here, so XFree86 is the way that the package names need to be spelled. Also, I request that you keep the XFree86-xserv package, as that will allow us to realize the immediate benefit of being able to release the Test-** server or updates to the stable server as small downloads that everyone can keep up to date with. Good idea. I'm going to call it xfree86-xwin though. I think I'll put the startup-scripts.tgz in this package. - Ian -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.znark.com/
Re: info: single install xfree86 + minimal cygwin?
Christopher Faylor wrote: Yep, as Robert indicated, this has been possible for a while. For Cygwin/XFree86, what I'd like to do is have you all come up with a few .tar.bz2 files which install into a /usr/X11R6, /etc/X11, etc. I repackaged the current .tgz files as .tar.bz2 files. I created a rudimentary setup.ini file and was able to install them with setup.exe from a local directory. I haven't yet created a proper hierarchy setup.hint files. The hierarchy would be something like: xfree base setup.hint XFree-4.2.0-1.tar.bz2 XFree-4.2.0-1-src.tar.bz2 doc setup.hint XFree-doc-4.2.0-1.tar.bz2 devel setup.hint XFree86-devel-4.2.0-1.tar.bz2 XFree86-devel-4.2.0-1-src.tar.bz2 The packages I made were: xfree-base-4.2.0.tar.bz2 (11MB; Xbin, Xman, Xlib, Xxserv, Xetc) xfree-devel-4.2.0.tar.bz2 (595kB; Xprog) xfree-doc-txt-4.2.0.tar.bz2 (1.3MB; Xdoc) xfree-doc-html-4.2.0.tar.bz2 (905kB; Xhtml) xfree-doc-ps-4.2.0.tar.bz2 (4.4MB; Xps) xfree-fonts-100dpi-4.2.0.tar.bz2 (12MB; Xf100) xfree-fonts-4.2.0.tar.bz2 (18MB; Xfnts, Xfscl, Xfenc; required) xfree-fonts-cyrillic-4.2.0.tar.bz2 (364kB, Xfcyr) xfree-xfs-4.2.0.tar.bz2 (202kB; Xfsrv) xfree-xnest-4.2.0.tar.bz2 (1.1MB; Xnest) xfree-xprt-4.2.0.tar.bz2 (791kB; Xprt) xfree-xvfb-4.2.0.tar.bz2 (1.2MB; Xvfb) Is it possible to have multiple packages in a subdirectory and setup.hint file? Or does each package needs its own directory? For a hierarchy, I was thinking: base, devel, doc, fonts, and progs (for the optional servers). There are a couple of refinements that can be made to the repackaging. First, the 75dpi fonts make up the bulk (10MB) of the fonts package and aren't strictly required. They could be made their own package. The miscellaneous fonts could be folded into the base package so there is only one required package. Second, move the man3 man pages into the devel package. Also, move the .a files in /usr/X11R6/lib into devel. That reduces the base package by a couple MB. - Ian -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.znark.com/
Re: info: single install xfree86 + minimal cygwin?
Robert Collins wrote: I'm not clear not the hierarchy there - that reads like a list to me. You've got two clauses you can independently use to make a hierarchy and package dependencies - category:(i.e. the devel tarball belongs in XFree86 and in Devel) and requires: (i.e. the server package requires the fonts and the programs and ...) That is a list of subdirectories. But it won't work since the each package needs its own subdirectory. A better hiearchy would use the components from the package names. Hopefully, multiple levels of subdirectories will work. xfree: base: xfree-base-4.2.0.tar.bz2 devel: xfree-devel-4.2.0.tar.bz2 doc: html: xfree-doc-html-4.2.0.tar.bz2 ps: xfree-doc-ps-4.2.0.tar.bz2 txt: xfree-doc-txt-4.2.0.tar.bz2 fonts: 100dpi: xfree-fonts-100dpi-4.2.0.tar.bz2 75dpi: xfree-fonts-75dpi-4.2.0.tar.bz2 misc: xfree-fonts-misc-4.2.0.tar.bz2 xfs: xfree-xfs-4.2.0.tar.bz2 xnest: xfree-xnest-4.2.0.tar.bz2 xprt: xfree-xprt-4.2.0.tar.bz2 xvfb: xfree-xvfb-4.2.0.tar.bz2 Those refinements can be made at any point - there's no need to have it perfect on first release. Setup.exe is quite capable of handling files moving from one package to another now. They were simple changes to the script I wrote to repackage the distributed archives. I'll try to write proper setup.hint files for all the packages. - Ian -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.znark.com/
Re: info: single install xfree86 + minimal cygwin?
Christopher Faylor wrote: Yes, a -75dpi part of a tar file will look like a version number. Can you use an underscore instead? I could use an underscore. I got it to work by changing it to dpi75. Shouldn't the name in the setup.ini file override that version number parsing? - Ian -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.znark.com/
Re: info: single install xfree86 + minimal cygwin?
Christopher Faylor wrote: Name? Do you mean version? If you put a version in setup.hint it is currently ignored. The name from the @ line and the version header could be used to override the parsing of file names into name and version. - Ian -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.znark.com/
xfree packages
I finished making some xfree packages. They are distributed binary archives repackaged as cygwin packages. I made a package directory that can be used with setup.exe from a local directory and over the network. I changed my mind about the division of the packages I proposed. I got rid of the multiple doc and fonts packages cause I was having trouble with the naming and directories. Plus, I assumed the people would want to install them together. The packages are now: xfree-base xfree-devel xfree-docs xfree-fonts xfree-xfs xfree-xnest xfree-xvfb xfree-xprt I don't have a machine that people can easily download the full files from. I can post the setup.* files and scripts I used to build the packages. - Ian -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.znark.com/
Re: info: single install xfree86 + minimal cygwin?
Christopher Faylor wrote: The base cygwin install provides, er, a base cygwin install. That's the default for the Cygwin installation. There is currently no XFree86 package in the cygwin installation at all. They could create a custom install if they wanted. The Cygwin setup program can download packages from any site. They would need to select the packages for a minimal install, create a new setup.ini, and mirror those packages on their download site. I would love for someone to post a proposal for inclusion of a XFree86 package to the cygwin-apps mailing list using the guidelines at http://cygwin.com/setup.html but so far no one has been willing to do that. The first step is to build Cygwin-style packages. The second step is to create a local install directory with custom setup.ini and packages. The third step is to get it included into the standard cygwin install. I thought someone already did the packaging. One question is do we want to separate it into multiple packages. Another is what to name the packages; xfree86 or xoncygwin would be good choices. I think multiple packages is a good idea. Mainly so the server executable can be updated without updating the other files. - Ian -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.znark.com/
Re: Status of seamless integration?
Michel Bardiaux wrote: Aye, there's the rub. When the X application pops up a menu, it must grab the keyboard and the *whole* screen. In other words, a system modal window is required, which means one can't use an internal WM but must use MS-Windows as WM - while still being responsive to ICCM. Does the menu need to be truly modal on the Windows side? The menu window has the focus so it will get keyboard events. It can be modal with respect to all the other X server-owned windows. It is harder to make it modal relative to Windows. Just to make sure we are using the same terms, what I mean by an internal window manager one running inside the X server. I am taking my cue from the eXcursion2 design document. Windows is generating the move, resize, etc events. The window manager hooks into the X server Windows event loop and handles window state events. The internal window manager should act as proper window manager which presumably means talking to the server. The other way I can see to handle a rootless X server is with a separate X client window manager. For each root-level X window, there is a corresponding Windows window. But without any frame at all. The window manager draws the frame and handles moving, resizing, and all that. The X server is responsible of moving the Windows window. Does any of this make sense? - Ian -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.znark.com/
Re: correct place for xmodmap / how to automize keyboard-layout-setting for Xfree86 ?
On Wed, Apr 03, 2002 at 12:28:22AM +0200, Ulrich Diez wrote: I installed Cygwin and Xfree86 these days on my computer. Actually I have no experience with them. I wanted to make the X-Window-System accepting german keyboard-layout, therefore I downloaded a german Xmodmap-file. When I use the command xmodmap /path-to-modmap-file/xmodmad.de in bash or xterm, I have the german keyboard-settings. But when I try to automize the Xmodmap-procedure for startup, I mess up as I actually do not know all to much about the corresponding mechanisms. So I tried to do everything as said in the FAQ (see below). Neither did I find the mentioned file /etc/X11/xdm/XSetup nor a similar one. There was no XSetup-file on my Computer at all. I created one and put it into the mentioned directory but that didn't help. (Somebody already told me that under UNIX-systems upper- and lower-case-spelling is important.) How are you starting XFree? XDMCP is used to create a session from another computer; xdm runs on the other computer. It isn't needed on the Cygwin computer. If you are starting the X server with startx, then the xmodmap file goes in ~/.Xmodmap. You can also put it in /etc/X11/Xmodmap to make it the global setting. The instructions in the FAQ regarding xdm are what to do on the remote machine. - Ian -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.znark.com/
Re: Status of seamless integration?
Harold Hunt wrote: No one is working on it. In fact, no one has been working on much of anything related to Cygwin/XFree86 lately. What would be needed to do it? How much work would it be? - Ian -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.znark.com/
Re: Status of seamless integration?
Alan Hourihane wrote: A lot of work. I've done most of the re-writing of the span functions into their native GDI counterparts. That's a good start. Where can I find the native GDI changes? Are they checked in? My impression is that mode isn't included into the server by default. What is needed to get it to compile. We need to implement the rest of the server into native GDI calls, then we can start looking at 'rootless' modes. It's by no means a small task to do the conversion to native GDI first though. I wonder why native GDI is required for rootless modes. There would need to be support for creating Win32 windows for each X window. Plus, drawing (or blitting) into those Win32 windows instead of one single window or full screen. An internal window manager would also be needed. - Ian
