Re: New Project (was RE: X client wrapper for Win apps?)
OK. Let's use [EMAIL PROTECTED] for the mean time if there is any discussion needed. Once it's going we can discuss elsewhere. It would be really nice to have this hosted at sources.redhat.com but actually at the moment we don't need that, we just need to start developing. But that can all be discussed on that list. I've subscribed - Nicholas, unfortunately it seems like you don't have wide backing for keeping the discussion going here, and it can't really be that hard to subscribe to another list you can unsuscribe to later if neccessary... Christopher Faylor wrote: On Fri, Sep 20, 2002 at 03:05:05PM -0400, Harold L Hunt II wrote: I say move the discussion elsewhere. I have put up with it for now, but it really needs to go so we can get back on topic here. Of course, with the level of continuous contributions flowing from other members of the Cygwin/XFree86 project, I can't hold out much hope for this new project. Best of luck, but don't think much will happen after the excitement of picking a name, license, etc. Of course, I love to be proven wrong with oodles of code. This was my impression, too, after having experienced this many times in cygwin and other projects (the freevms and debian-win32 projects spring to mind). This is following the pattern by by discussing the trivial things like what do we call it and where do we put it. But, eventually all of the people who think it is a really good idea but have no actual experience to contribute will quiet down and you'll be left with the fact that no one has time to start a major new project. Actually, if you want an existing mailing list to discuss this on, you can use [EMAIL PROTECTED] That was Suhaib's list but he's indicated that he's had to move on and the project is basically dead. The name even makes a certain amount of sense. You can use that for the discussion until an actual project name is chosen. At that point, I'm happy to set up what is required on sources.redhat.com. Don't let my pessimism (or Harold's) stop you if you are fired up about this but please be aware that this will require substantial work, probably by more than one person. You'll probably need a project lead, too, if you want this to succeed. cgf
Re: New Project (was RE: X client wrapper for Win apps?)
Sorry everyone, posted to wrong list! Yikes! David Fraser wrote: This is a notice to everyone on this list that we will (for a short time at least) be using this list to discuss a new project intended to allow ordinary Windows programs to appear in X-Windows. This is quite different to the original purpose of this list, but was suggested on a discussion on the cygwin-xfree list where it was felt that this was appropriate as the win32-x11 project is no longer being actively developed. See the cygwin-xfree archives over the last few days for more info (and the suggestion in Christopher Faylor's message below) (http://sources.redhat.com/ml/cygwin-xfree/2002-09/) David Fraser Christopher Faylor wrote: Actually, if you want an existing mailing list to discuss this on, you can use [EMAIL PROTECTED] That was Suhaib's list but he's indicated that he's had to move on and the project is basically dead. The name even makes a certain amount of sense. You can use that for the discussion until an actual project name is chosen. At that point, I'm happy to set up what is required on sources.redhat.com. Don't let my pessimism (or Harold's) stop you if you are fired up about this but please be aware that this will require substantial work, probably by more than one person. You'll probably need a project lead, too, if you want this to succeed. cgf
Re: New Project (was RE: X client wrapper for Win apps?)
Stuart Adamson wrote: As what we are wanting to do here isn't strictly a cygwin/Xfree86 thing could I suggest we start a new sourceforge project and mailing list for this? Of course - we need a name for that ... Stuart Yes, I've been thinking this and then we can include it back into cygwin if neccessary later. Possible names: gdi2X win2X xgdi I'm happy to register the project and set it up...
RE: New Project (was RE: X client wrapper for Win apps?)
gdi2X win2X xgdi I like win2x. (or maybe win4x) I'm happy to register the project and set it up... I'd say wait a few hours for people in the states to wake up and read the mass of email and then unless anyone comes up with better names, go and do it. Stuart
Re: New Project (was RE: X client wrapper for Win apps?)
On Fri, 20 Sep 2002 11:46 pm, Stuart Adamson wrote: gdi2X win2X xgdi I like win2x. (or maybe win4x) I'm happy to register the project and set it up... I'd say wait a few hours for people in the states to wake up and read the mass of email and then unless anyone comes up with better names, go and do it. For what it is worth, I like win2x, although win4x is a bit more unique, with google giving 'win2x' 295 matches, but only 10 for 'win4x'. On reflection, win2x also describes a bit more what it actually does. I think the gdi names are a bit obscure for the less technical. As mentioned previously, I'll help test, as I doubt I can help with the code. [Not really looking like a job for Python. :-) ] Rasjid.
Re: New Project (was RE: X client wrapper for Win apps?)
Please don't use GDI in the name. I ask this because I don't want there to be confusion between the Cygwin/XFree86 NativeGDI engine and any foogdi project. Consider instead something like the following: XShell XExplorer Something more along those lines would help to differentiate your project from Cygwin/XFree86. Harold David Fraser wrote: Stuart Adamson wrote: As what we are wanting to do here isn't strictly a cygwin/Xfree86 thing could I suggest we start a new sourceforge project and mailing list for this? Of course - we need a name for that ... Stuart Yes, I've been thinking this and then we can include it back into cygwin if neccessary later. Possible names: gdi2X win2X xgdi I'm happy to register the project and set it up...
Re: New Project (was RE: X client wrapper for Win apps?)
Harold L Hunt II wrote: Please don't use GDI in the name. I ask this because I don't want there to be confusion between the Cygwin/XFree86 NativeGDI engine and any foogdi project. Consider instead something like the following: XShell XExplorer Something more along those lines would help to differentiate your project from Cygwin/XFree86. Harold David Fraser wrote: Yes, I've been thinking this and then we can include it back into cygwin if neccessary later. Possible names: gdi2X win2X xgdi I'm happy to register the project and set it up... Qualities we need for the name of the project: Should reflect what it does (displays ordinary Windows programs on an Xserver) Should be intelligible to end users Other names: OpenWin[dows] (because it's open source replacement for windows gdi) XOpenWin[dows] I reckon XExplorer sounds to much like it's a different of Windows Explorer, XShell is fairly good, as it's replacing the normal shell functions. XDesktop would be good except it would sound like its a generic X Desktop like KDE or Gnome I like the combination of Open and Windows as it's reflective both of the fact that its open source and that its using an open protocol, which is important because it gives flexibility that Windows currently lacks. And it's metaphorically nice. I don't think we can simply use OpenWindows though as that's a Sun windowing system... We should clarify the scope of the project. It could be an umbrella project to house a few different ways of goiig about this (that have been discussed so far) or we could settle on It takes a while to register a project anyway (about a day) and these are the things we need... (from sourceforge page) 1. Project Full Name You should start with specifying the name of your project. The Full Name is descriptive, and has no arbitrary restrictions (except a 40 character limit). 2. Project Purpose and Summarization *Submitted description should be at least a paragraph in length, and provide details of your intended implementation (programming language, OS platforms supported, graphics libraries you might intend to use, etc. as applicable). This description will be the basis for the approval or rejection of your request for project hosting on SourceForge.net, and later, to ensure that you are using the services in the intended way. This description will not be used as a public description of your project. * 3. License I would think GPL or LGPL here unless there is a reason we need to keep this the same as cygwin/Xfree86 4. Project Public Description This is the description of your project which will be shown on the Project Summary page, in search results, etc. Maximum length is 255 chars. 5. Project Unix Name In addition to full project name, you will need to choose short, Unix name for your project. (This is the name discussion above) Once it's up, we need to set up mailing lists and the web site and then we can get going... David
Re: New Project (was RE: X client wrapper for Win apps?)
On Fri, 20 Sep 2002, David Fraser wrote: Other names: OpenWin[dows] (because it's open source replacement for windows gdi) XOpenWin[dows] OpenWindows is the X11 environment from SUN. Using this name might bring some trademark problems. bye ago -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gotti.org ICQ: 126018723
Re: New Project (was RE: X client wrapper for Win apps?)
Can we move this discussion to another mailing list? and Get back to the business of cygwin-xfree, here. TIA jim drash
Re: New Project (was RE: X client wrapper for Win apps?)
Yes, will do as soon as the new project is set up. So it'll hopefully be only a few more emails. Jim Drash wrote: Can we move this discussion to another mailing list? and Get back to the business of cygwin-xfree, here. TIA jim drash
Re: New Project (was RE: X client wrapper for Win apps?)
Alexander Gottwald wrote: On Fri, 20 Sep 2002, David Fraser wrote: Other names: OpenWin[dows] (because it's open source replacement for windows gdi) XOpenWin[dows] OpenWindows is the X11 environment from SUN. Using this name might bring some trademark problems. bye ago Thanks, had realized that (mentioned later in email)...rats thesaurus time: Window: light port sky lattice sun shine viewpoint outlet shutter gate hmmm... Anyway I'm happy with XOpenWin. I prefer it to win2x because it sounds more professional. Any objections? Here's a stab at the project descriptions etc: 1. Full Name XOpenWin 2. Project Purpose and Summarizations XOpenWin is a project to utilize X Windows as an alternative user interface for Windows operating systems. It will use the the cygwin xfree86 project (particularly xlib) to display the equivalent of GDI calls for Windows applications. It may import or use code from the Wine project that does similar things on Linux; however this is essentially different to Wine as it is only converting the display, not emulating any other Windows functions. Programming language will be C/C++, OS platforms as many windows variants as possible. This has been discussed extensively on the cygwin-xfree86 mailing list and planning has already begun. 3. License GPL. 4. Project Public Description: XOpenWin is a project to utilize XWindows as an alternative user interface for Windows operating systems. It will allow any app (or the whole UI) to be displayed in an X server, on the user's screen (cygwin) or remotely. 'Say goodbye to the Windows GDI' 5. Unix name XOpenWin Any changes, post them quickly, otherwise I'll go ahead...
Re: New Project (was RE: X client wrapper for Win apps?)
--- Stuart Adamson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As what we are wanting to do here isn't strictly a cygwin/Xfree86 thing could I suggest we start a new sourceforge project and mailing list for this? A new SF project yes, but this is very much a Cygwin/XFree related issue. It's easier to keep up with things if you don't have to subscribe to tons of lists. I say we keep the discussion going on here. Cheers, Nicholas __ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com
Re: New Project (was RE: X client wrapper for Win apps?)
--- Harold L Hunt II [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please don't use GDI in the name. I ask this because I don't want there to be confusion between the Cygwin/XFree86 NativeGDI engine and any foogdi project. Consider instead something like the following: XShell XExplorer Something more along those lines would help to differentiate your project from Cygwin/XFree86. I don't see why this has to be seperate from the Cygwin/XFree project? It seems to me that they are proposing more of an extension/addon then replacing the server itself. Do you have some objection to what is being proposed? Cheers, Nicholas __ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com
Re: New Project (was RE: X client wrapper for Win apps?)
I say move the discussion elsewhere. I have put up with it for now, but it really needs to go so we can get back on topic here. Of course, with the level of continuous contributions flowing from other members of the Cygwin/XFree86 project, I can't hold out much hope for this new project. Best of luck, but don't think much will happen after the excitement of picking a name, license, etc. Of course, I love to be proven wrong with oodles of code. Harold Nicholas Wourms wrote: --- Stuart Adamson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As what we are wanting to do here isn't strictly a cygwin/Xfree86 thing could I suggest we start a new sourceforge project and mailing list for this? A new SF project yes, but this is very much a Cygwin/XFree related issue. It's easier to keep up with things if you don't have to subscribe to tons of lists. I say we keep the discussion going on here. Cheers, Nicholas __ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com
Re: New Project (was RE: X client wrapper for Win apps?)
Any such development would need to occur in a branch that could eventually be merged back in if it proves stable, useful, well modularized, and actively maintained. If not, I'll just forget that anyone ever talked about doing it in the first place. That's why it needs to move off list, even if it ends up being essentially a feature of Cygwin/XFree86 rather than a seperate program/library. Harold Nicholas Wourms wrote: --- Harold L Hunt II [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please don't use GDI in the name. I ask this because I don't want there to be confusion between the Cygwin/XFree86 NativeGDI engine and any foogdi project. Consider instead something like the following: XShell XExplorer Something more along those lines would help to differentiate your project from Cygwin/XFree86. I don't see why this has to be seperate from the Cygwin/XFree project? It seems to me that they are proposing more of an extension/addon then replacing the server itself. Do you have some objection to what is being proposed? Cheers, Nicholas __ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com
Re: New Project (was RE: X client wrapper for Win apps?)
--- Harold L Hunt II [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any such development would need to occur in a branch that could eventually be merged back in if it proves stable, useful, well modularized, and actively maintained. If not, I'll just forget that anyone ever talked about doing it in the first place. That's why it needs to move off list, even if it ends up being essentially a feature of Cygwin/XFree86 rather than a seperate program/library. Harold, I don't buy that argument, as I'm sure anyone else who is developing features for Cygwin/XFree isn't directly commiting their changes to HEAD on xfree86.org. Thus, most people would have their own seperate branch from which they would submit changes to be merged into the main branch. I'm sure the fellow working on xwinclip has a local branch that he uses. The point is that for once we are having a lively discussion on this list and I don't see why a new list is necessary. Just makes life harder for everyone. It isn't like this list gets that much volume anyhow. Discussion is *good*, despite your contention that the only thing that should be said is Here's the patch, what do you think? Sometimes planning is necessary and getting input from the community vital to properly implementing a feature. I still don't see why you are so adverse to people talking about haw nice it would be to have x or y, especially when the discussion is serious. Cheers, Nicholas __ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com
Re: New Project (was RE: X client wrapper for Win apps?)
Yes, that is what I want. The primary aim of Cygwin/XFree86 is to provide an open source X Server for Microsoft Windows. I intend to pursue that goal. If others are interested in pursuing a highly-experiemental Windows shell replacement, then they are more than welcome to do so, but not here. Harold Christopher Faylor wrote: On Fri, Sep 20, 2002 at 12:28:11PM -0700, Nicholas Wourms wrote: --- David Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Once it's up, we need to set up mailing lists and the web site and then we can get going... If people are insisting on a seperate branchlist, why not host the website, cvs, and mailing list on sources.redhat.com? Charles Wilson always told me that it could be an option for projects like this. I'm sure you can think of the numerous benefits, but the one that stands out is having the list archives cvs tree in one single place. It makes things easier for all plus you get searchable mailing-list archives to boot. I dunno if CGF is still kosher with this idea, but what would be the harm in asking? Just my 2 cents... It's no problem setting up a new mailing list or cvs repository if that is what people want. cgf
