RE: the power of cryptography
At 4:30 PM -0800 2/11/00, Matthew Gream wrote:
If you were to read the sentence that follows the one you quoted, you would
find that I say "however, until such time" to acknowledge two things.
Firstly, that an ideal society takes time to reach (if at all reachable),
and secondly, that when an ideal society is reached, it needs to prevent
itself from slipping back to a non-ideal society.
I understood your point. And I still think your point is pernicious.
The very notion of "perfection means rights won't be needed" is what is
pernicious. Seen frequently in the gun debate. ("If we lived in a perfect
I would agree with your position on this.
society, guns would not be needed and there would be no need for the Second
Amendment.")
In an ideal society, neither guns, nor the second amendment
*would* be needed.
Guns would not be "needed" for defense or protection because
those situations wouldn't come up.
The Second amendment wouldn't be needed because there would
be no government to take the guns away, and society would
recognize--without any coercion--not only the right to the means to
self defense, but all other rights.
To use another line of attack on this that might make what I
am trying to say more clear--In the "Perfect World", there would be
no need for a spare tire, but that doesn't mean that spare tires
would be outlawed.
Of course, the perfect society is like the perfect
gun--different to each person.
--
A quote from Petro's Archives: **
If the courts started interpreting the Second Amendment the way they interpret
the First, we'd have a right to bear nuclear arms by now.--Ann Coulter
Re: the power of cryptography
At Fri, 11 Feb 2000 11:49:02 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: . If ever there was the ideal society, then such little call would there be for these devices of confusion. The only ideal society I can think of where " little call would there be for these devices" would be one brought into being via genocide on the scale of nothing we have ever seen. Hardly anyone I am familiar with would consider a society where there is no privacy, nor need for it, ideal. The fact that your mind cannot think of it doesn't mean that it's impossible. -- A quote from Petro's Archives: ** If the courts started interpreting the Second Amendment the way they interpret the First, we'd have a right to bear nuclear arms by now.--Ann Coulter
Re: the power of cryptography
At 01:11 PM 2/12/00 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Given that, it seems to me a society in which cryptography and locks are not needed because privacy is respected with such absolutivity as soon above is also closer to my ideal. But private data is accidentally revealed, without malice[1]. That's why we use paper envelopes around our letters. Postcards end up in the wrong mailboxes (and some folks read everything extremely rapidly and automatically, to their annoyance when confronted with idiotic bumper stickers and advertising in general.) Have you never mistaken an identical car for your own, in the parking lot, and tried the door? But more fundamentally, you describe an unstable situation. One culture may be "ideal" but you haven't excluded non-ideal other cultures. Which when they discover your vulnerability make you extinct. The "other" might be one of the "ideals" who flips. An ideal society shouldn't be unstable -small perturbations cause it to fail. (An amoral argument against tyrants, btw) Sure, as pointed out, genocide, internal thought police, and forced monopolies to eliminate competition would help, but they force a rather national socialist utopia. IMHO. - [1] (If everyone used a well-known key to (insecurely) scramble the plaintext against casual viewing, most tools would automatically decrypt their content without their operators' explicit instruction. If all email and news was rot-13, the tools would automatically unrot it. If every car in a lot was keyed the same, you would not discover that you entered the wrong car until too late. If you object that biometrics replaces this, note that biometric tech follows locks by a few thousand years) - In Eden, were the large carnivores vegetarians? DH
Re: Top Secret Report on Kadaffi Plot
At 8:09 AM -0800 2/13/00, John Young wrote:
We would appreciate the URL for this report.
The Sunday Times, today;
http://www.the-times.co.uk/news/pages/Times/frontpage.html?1124027
"A top-secret report linking MI6 with a failed attempt to
assassinate Colonel Gadaffi appeared on an American
internet site yesterday, refuting Robin Cook's claim that
British intelligence was not involved. The document,
marked "UK Eyes Alpha", details contacts between
MI6 and a group of Middle Eastern plotters who tried
unsuccessfully to blow up Gadaffi's motorcade. The
report, coded CX95/ 53452, was passed to senior
Foreign Office officials. It revealed when and where
he assassination attempt was due and said that at
least 250 British-made weapons were distributed
among the plotters. The four-page CX document
was published on the California-based Yahoo!
website. The Sunday Times has complied with a
request by Rear-Admiral Nick Wilkinson, secretary
of the government's defence, press and broadcasting
advisory committee, not to print the address of the
website on which the CX report is published."
This is nonsense. The United States and the United Kingdom and their Allies
are not engaged in "assassination." Nor are they involved in "terrorism."
Terrorism and assassination are what terrorists and assassins do. That is,
lowlife raghead scum. What the United States and its allies did or
attempted to do with Castro, Lumumba, Diem, Kennedy, Ghadaffi, and all
those others was most definitely not "assassination." In Company
terminology, those operations were "Premature Pension Suspensions." And
"Selective Denial of Biological Environments."
When the West does it, it is "national technical means" and "executive
action." When our good friends the Zionists do it, by kicking out the sand
niggers from Eretz Israel, it is "Lebensraum." (How fittingly ironic that
the Jews learned so well in the camps, and that the United States is now
the world's premier terror state.)
This report is nothing new, it's just disinformation from the raghead sand
niggers and their anti-Zionist collaborators.
--Tim May
print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",
)]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]dsXx++lMlN/dsM0J]dsJxp"|dc`
-:-:-:-:-:-:-:
Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
"Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.
Re: why worry?
Mark wrote: I don't like gov't databases - they're mandatory. I have nothing against private databases - I can always "go around" those. government is is more and more beholden to corporate power and the trend will continue. before long, this distinction that you rely on between gov't and private will no longer protect you. read Database Nation... u may not be abe to "go around" so easily. and why should citizens have to become hackers just to keep their private data out of corporate databases? --Allan
Re: why worry?
Mark wrote: I don't like gov't databases - they're mandatory. I have nothing against private databases - I can always "go around" those. Megacorp are every bit as evil as governments are. The destruction of the state and multinational corps go hand-in-hand. In fact, they probably are even more evil -- and certainly more efficient in their evil.
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RE: the power of cryptography
Reese wrote: I doubt that a true cypherpunk has ever mistaken anothers car, for his own. Forget the precise lat and lon coordinates maybe, but not mistake someone elses property. The balance of your text is based on this false premise, and is both snipped and unaddressed. I've mistaken somebody elses car for mine more than once. Heck, many years ago, I got into a car with the same side-long dent my old junker had. As I am trying to turn the ignition key, I notice all these half-smoked menthol cigarettes in the open ashtray. Same year, same model, same interior. Parked three cars down from my car. If it hadn't been for the cigarette butts in the ashtray, I might have found myself disassembling the ignition lock while the real owner walked up. Instead, I quietly exited the car. --Lucky
Big Brother at the Nurnberg Toy Fair
http://www.spielen.at/action/defaulte.htm Search by title for "Big Brother". - d.
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