Re: And you thought Nazi agitprop was controversial?
And more from this "only TEENAGERS and adults" website... "Recently, I showed a friend a photograph of myself and a twelve-year-old boy with whom I was bonded years ago. We are standing side by side with my arm around his shoulder, in what I would consider a typical adult-child pose. My friend took one look at the picture and said, "You were lovers." To my surprise, he pointed out that there was absolutely no space between us. The boy had molded his body so that he was in continuous contact with me from his ankle to where his shoulder fit into my armpit. The author is classified as a violent felon, and so housed and treated, because the law defines sexual contact with a child less than eleven as a violent crime. The irony is profound. The child in question once had to go find his brother to help him remove a bothersome loose tooth because the author couldn't bear to cause him even momentary pain." Try as I might, I have been unable to find a single page on that NAMBLA website that speaks of "teenagers and adults." All they ever talk about is "boys." " -- "He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy R.A.M.P.-Restore Americas Moral Pride Jodi Hoffman R.A.M.P. http://www.gocin.com/ramp Victimization of Children/Research Education Council of America 2805 E. OAKLAND PARK BLVD., SUITE 122 FORT LAUDERDALE, FLORIDA 33306 TELEPHONE (954) 567-0698 TeleFax (954) 630-2280
-C-P- Re: would it be so much to ask..
At 17:08 2000-09-18 -0400, you wrote: That the list be changed so that unregistered email addresses cannot send messages to it? This spam is getting ridiculous. I suppose you know why we don´t have that (the remailing issue). But I kinda have another idea. Just start every subject line with eg -C-P- like I did now, then it would be really easy to filter all the mail. //Harald
Re: -C-P- Re: would it be so much to ask..
At 10:54 09/19/2000 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 17:08 2000-09-18 -0400, you wrote: That the list be changed so that unregistered email addresses cannot send messages to it? This spam is getting ridiculous. I suppose you know why we don´t have that (the remailing issue). But I kinda have another idea. Just start every subject line with eg -C-P- like I did now, then it would be really easy to filter all the mail. Last I checked the remailers allowed return mail to be sent through them, to the owner of the anonymous account.. isn't that the point? It's easy enough to forge the email header that I can't believe they exist just to totally isolate anyone from the responses.. how would someone using a remailer even join the list (to receive messages) if that was the point? The only part where I see this being useful is if somebody has some kind of anonymous announcement to make, where they don't intend to join the list. I can't see the -C-P- subject as really being functional for sorting out spam mail because anyone new to the list won't know to put them in, nor the people I mentioned who might wish to make anonymous announcements. The benefits of having the list open to unsubscribed postings seem far outweighed by the cost in time spent by everyone filtering messages and server resources that could be better spent running dnetc if nothing else ;). It's just auxiliary that I've never seen an anonymous post to the list in the past when I subscribed, nor more recently since I resubscribed. Undoubtedly some smartass will send an anonymous message to the list now just to say "see!" :P There has to be some way around this that will still preserve anonymity, although one doesn't seem readily apparent unless the anonymous party subscribes under their pseudonym. What about just creating another list (closed-posting) and then just allowing people to choose which to subscribe to? Obviously, the open-posting list would be subscribed to the closed posting list, but not the other way around.. so at the risk of missing the massively important anonymous message that has yet to be sent, I could eliminate some of this spam? ---signature file--- PGP Key Fingerprint: 446B 7718 B219 9F1E 43DD 8E4A 6BE9 D739 CCC5 7FD7 "I don't think [Linux] will be very successful in the long run." "My experience and some of my friends' experience is that Linux is quite unreliable. Microsoft is really unreliable but Linux is worse." -Ken Thompson, Interview May 1999. http://www.freebsd.org FreeBSD - The Power to Serve http://www.rfnj.org Radio Free New Jersey - 395 streams - 96kbps @ 44.1khz
Re: And you thought Nazi agitprop was controversial?
At 01:17 -0400 9/19/00, Jodi Hoffman wrote: Kevin Elliott wrote: Read the stupid website if you don't believe me www.nambla.de. Here's a little something else I picked up from the same stupid website (you know...the one you say only promotes sex between teenagers and adults...) My god! Did you stay up all night to find this? It seems quite clear to me that the vast majority of the website is focused on man/teen relationships. Even so, if this were a website advocating man/baby relationships, especially those that included horses it would not affect my position one bit. These people have the right for their information to be put into the public forum. -- Kevin "The Cubbie" Elliott mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ#23758827 ___ "As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all must be most aware of change in the air--however slight--lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness." -- Justice William O. Douglas
Preliminary Outline of a Proposed Micromint Specification
--- begin forwarded text Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 16:52:34 -0400 From: Zulfikar Ramzan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: MIT To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Preliminary Outline of a Proposed Micromint Specification Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi, Based on conversations and ideas due to Ron Rivest and Adi Shamir, I've prepared a manuscript proposing some of the parameter and algorithm choices for an actual implementation of their Micromint scheme. The manuscript is still more of a preliminary design spec as many issues associated with a Micromint implementation are not addressed (though a good number of the issues are). The manuscript was prepared with the sponsorship of the Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation (http://www.ibuc.com). It is available at: http://theory.lcs.mit.edu/~zulfikar/papers/mm-spec-outline.pdf and a pointer to it can be found from: http://theory.lcs.mit.edu/~zulfikar/MyResearch/homepage.html Comments and criticisms are welcome. Thanks, -- --Zully --- Zulfikar Ramzan (AKA Zully) Laboratory for Computer Science, MIT NE43-311, (617) 253-2345 http://theory.lcs.mit.edu/~zulfikar/homepage.html --- end forwarded text -- - R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
Your Order!
Title: Welcome to Computastore.net News Update <-- AbleCommerce 2.91 (tm) the award winning electronic commerce software from Able Solutions. http://www.ablecommerce.com/ The flexible solution for selling on the Internet. Copyright Able Solutions Corporation, 1995-2000 ALL RIGHTS RESERVED This Copyright notice may not be removed or altered in any way and must be included in all works derived from AbleCommerce. --> Welcome to Ads by Email Dear Sir/Madam. Your Email Address was purchased from postmasterdirect.com. If you wish to unsubscribe please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please take a look at the following products for further information: If you have a web site then sign up above and earn some money and visitors to your website.
Re: would it be so much to ask..
Asymmetric whined: Last I checked the remailers allowed return mail to be sent through them, to the owner of the anonymous account.. isn't that the point? It's easy enough to forge the email header that I can't believe they exist just to totally isolate anyone from the responses.. how would someone using a remailer even join the list (to receive messages) if that was the point? Hey, Retardo -- when did you ever check? If you had, you'd know that you can't reply to anon remailers. Try replying to this, you clueless shit. Now shut the fuck up about this bullshit, we're all tired of the subject, and if you can't be bothered to check the archives, get the fuck off the list.
Re: would it be so much to ask..
At 10:24 09/19/2000 -0500, Anonymous Coward vomited: Hey, Retardo -- when did you ever check? If you had, you'd know that you can't reply to anon remailers. Try replying to this, you clueless shit. Now shut the fuck up about this bullshit, we're all tired of the subject, and if you can't be bothered to check the archives, get the fuck off the list. Actually asshole, there are plenty of anonymous remailers that DO let you reply to the originator. In case you're just a bit wet behind the ears yet and hadn't heard, a while back there was a big problem with one of them when the government ordered them to release their database mapping the pseudonyms back to the originators. Clueless? Far from it. How about this.. you shut your own ignorant ass before you make a bigger fool of yourself than you already have, and try and fucking consider for one second how you manage to sort through a hundred fucking spam messages a day sent to this list, and yet you apparently don't have the mental facility to delete my own messages if you find them so useless. It's pretty simple for you to add me to the killfile, why don't you do it? I could personally give a shit if you never read anything more I have to say. Have fun filtering the spam. ---signature file--- PGP Key Fingerprint: 446B 7718 B219 9F1E 43DD 8E4A 6BE9 D739 CCC5 7FD7 "I don't think [Linux] will be very successful in the long run." "My experience and some of my friends' experience is that Linux is quite unreliable. Microsoft is really unreliable but Linux is worse." -Ken Thompson, Interview May 1999. http://www.freebsd.org FreeBSD - The Power to Serve http://www.rfnj.org Radio Free New Jersey - 395 streams - 96kbps @ 44.1khz
Please ignore this email- this is only test.
- Begin Hush Signed Message from [EMAIL PROTECTED] - The dog barks at midnight The moon is full The stick is brown So is the toilet paper - Begin Hush Signature v1.3 - Hq+ukSgS7nN5At5dNsW7djRTS4xIVJYSVQCaJz8IagYPoqFpf6v+53aNnBZkgWQylppe A4DBmdguSeI3oDIDauIyqlnC6VZZtdMbh0ZE3zv1jefvdB4Mo5CxCj+YQEO2KE+qXEsj yEWUdvA0SYnU9q98ivzE3WzwrFrTCALk6udwXwEdxaLDsxCcaKT4ATxQ6urDuIKvDncw 998oXQr9HvFZLx2r3KxeLz9319tRxct19yD+Da0b0+ng3a/L9vY+sX986SwsfvkpcxwD TMZMXWpPTgTOGhAMs1RQW7sP6ON+oVqVlPWAkwL7R9nstNxXJN9ZDSopJI/oxS894zA+ YAw7+ghXyczpqjAuuK32AD7xNwKB4WuIlgefDqCd+dBDFmAJN4DpHlMpms47ZowundXK 5yQvn3JrYhWvmhb6Ffd/wRTmv4WwlyVXXHhDSYhs0jAQrbAX3SGE2rxvBi5Y3ri7pulZ PWYe+eoaa2L+/HbmjuR4dx+jvZHRwGpv9cOSiirj2ss+ - End Hush Signature v1.3 -
Re: would it be so much to ask..
At 12:43 -0400 9/19/00, Asymmetric wrote: Actually asshole, there are plenty of anonymous remailers that DO let you reply to the originator. In case you're just a bit wet behind the ears yet and hadn't heard, a while back there was a big problem with one of them when the government ordered them to release their database mapping the pseudonyms back to the originators. Oh? Name one please. After all, it would sort of defeat the purpose... As to your comment about having a database mapping pseudonyms to names, if one of those exists for a given remailer, it's not an ananymous remailer. I certainly hope none of the remailers in use by users here do such things. -- Kevin "The Cubbie" Elliott mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ#23758827 ___ "As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all must be most aware of change in the air--however slight--lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness." -- Justice William O. Douglas
Re: -C-P- Re: would it be so much to ask..
(P.S. Lose the toad.com address. Get a clue. Or, since you appear to be a luser, "loose the toad.com address.") At 8:04 AM -0400 9/19/00, Asymmetric wrote: At 10:54 09/19/2000 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 17:08 2000-09-18 -0400, you wrote: That the list be changed so that unregistered email addresses cannot send messages to it? This spam is getting ridiculous. I suppose you know why we don´t have that (the remailing issue). But I kinda have another idea. Just start every subject line with eg -C-P- like I did now, then it would be really easy to filter all the mail. Last I checked the remailers allowed return mail to be sent through them, to the owner of the anonymous account.. isn't that the point? It's easy enough to forge the email header that I can't believe they exist just to totally isolate anyone from the responses.. how would someone using a remailer even join the list (to receive messages) if that was the point? And how many anonymously-remailed messages to this list have ever, in all the years of this list, included reply blocks? No more than a small handful, as I recall seeing. "the remailers allowed return mail" is terribly misleading, and probably arises out of ignorance of what reply blocks are and why they are so difficult to use, rather than imprecision in language. As for "I can't believe they exist just to totally isolate...", with your claim that forging headers is apparently a good alternative, you are naive and ignorant. Do you think that the anonymous poster who posted the RC4 code here several years ago should simply have done some kind of Port 25 hack instead of using a remailer? Do you think that the folks who distributed the CoS NOTS files should have used header forgings instead of using Cypherpunks remailers? (As the educated amongst you know, the CoS efforts to force Julf to disclose the mapping ultimately failed to produce the source when Julf's mapping only pointed back to a Cypherpunks-type remailer being run at that time by C2Net.) What about just creating another list (closed-posting) and then just allowing people to choose which to subscribe to? Obviously, the open-posting list would be subscribed to the closed posting list, but not the other way around.. so at the risk of missing the massively important anonymous message that has yet to be sent, I could eliminate some of this spam? If you don't get it, you have no business trying to architect the structure of our list. --Tim May -- -:-:-:-:-:-:-: Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, "Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.
Re: -C-P- Re: would it be so much to ask..
At 10:54 AM +0200 9/19/00, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 17:08 2000-09-18 -0400, you wrote: That the list be changed so that unregistered email addresses cannot send messages to it? This spam is getting ridiculous. I suppose you know why we don´t have that (the remailing issue). But I kinda have another idea. Just start every subject line with eg -C-P- like I did now, then it would be really easy to filter all the mail. //Harald Nitwit, this idea has been proposed many times. Choate even does this, unfortunately, to all traffic flowing through his node. I used to think that nitwits were their own punishment. I now have come to the conclusion that it's long past due that we stoke the furnaces --Tim May -- -:-:-:-:-:-:-: Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, "Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.
Cryptonomicon question...
Greetings, I realise Cryptonomicon (by Neal Stephenson) was a thread middle of last year, and I don't intend to revisit old topics. But this question was posed to me, and I can't find the answer anywhere. And it's as simple as this... What is Avi's surname??? Web searches came up blank, I've re-read the book, and I couldn't see anything in the old discussion thread. Don't post responses (not worth the disk space on CH), but I would appreciate an email (and a page reference if possible) before it drives me nuts!!! Much appreciated Treble Clef - Get free personalized email at http://geocities.iname.com
Re: Please ignore this email- this is only test.
Yore ass is blackest, blackie, so put 'er there, pard! At 12:32 PM 19/09/00 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Begin Hush Signed Message from [EMAIL PROTECTED] - The dog barks at midnight The moon is full The stick is brown So is the toilet paper - Begin Hush Signature v1.3 - Hq+ukSgS7nN5At5dNsW7djRTS4xIVJYSVQCaJz8IagYPoqFpf6v+53aNnBZkgWQylppe A4DBmdguSeI3oDIDauIyqlnC6VZZtdMbh0ZE3zv1jefvdB4Mo5CxCj+YQEO2KE+qXEsj yEWUdvA0SYnU9q98ivzE3WzwrFrTCALk6udwXwEdxaLDsxCcaKT4ATxQ6urDuIKvDncw 998oXQr9HvFZLx2r3KxeLz9319tRxct19yD+Da0b0+ng3a/L9vY+sX986SwsfvkpcxwD TMZMXWpPTgTOGhAMs1RQW7sP6ON+oVqVlPWAkwL7R9nstNxXJN9ZDSopJI/oxS894zA+ YAw7+ghXyczpqjAuuK32AD7xNwKB4WuIlgefDqCd+dBDFmAJN4DpHlMpms47ZowundXK 5yQvn3JrYhWvmhb6Ffd/wRTmv4WwlyVXXHhDSYhs0jAQrbAX3SGE2rxvBi5Y3ri7pulZ PWYe+eoaa2L+/HbmjuR4dx+jvZHRwGpv9cOSiirj2ss+ - End Hush Signature v1.3 - --- This message did not originate from the Sender address above. It was mailed out with the anonymizing software at http://anon.xg.nu ---
Re: -C-P- Re: would it be so much to ask..
At 13:36 09/19/2000 -0700, you wrote: You fucking idiots who want "closed" lists have several choices: Can you come up with any kind of explaination whatsoever for referring to what may admittedly be a minority of people trying to make constructive comments about how to just reduce the fucking spam? As I said, how about this: If YOU don't like seeing MY email, then why don't YOU apply the same rules YOU apply to spam to IT? Apparently you have no fucking problem whatsoever with filtering out the great deal of spam that comes from this list, whats a few more messages? 1. Those who came before you _already_ created closed lists. "Cryptography" and "Coderpunks," for example. Join _those_ lists. 2. Subscribe to one of the filtered lists, e.g., Ray Arachelian's list. 3. Create your own lists. BTW, if you are posting to the "toad.com" address, as you are, you are too ignorant to be giving us advice on how the list ought to be structured. First off, let me point THIS out to you... A search on excite for +cypherpunks +list turns up a great deal of sites... The first site, "VERONA cypherpunks archives" has a link called "List Information", which goes nowhere. The second site, obscura.com has several links but no mention of the list itself. The third, fourth, fifth, sixth and ninth sites, the cypherpunks hyperarchive at inet-one.com, has a copy of an email message DIRECTED AT THE TOAD.COM ADDRESS that comes up first in the search, followed by some others. The SEVENTH site is homeport.org, and the first link on the site is to "The Cypherpunks Homepage" pointing to an FTP archive at berkeley, and has a link to the mailing list. This link specifically tells you TO use the toad.com address. So who is being ignorant exactly? You go to a page claiming to be the "Cypherpunks Homepage" and it says the mailing list is @toad.com?? Why don't you blame the asshole responsible for that site before blaming people who did their due diligence and turned up toad.com again and again? As it happens, this "homepage" makes no mention whatsoever about the other filtered lists.. not that I didn't know about Coderpunks or the others, but if you don't know, they aren't easy to just "bump into." This berkeley.edu site is the only site I've run across ever claiming to be "The Homepage" and I believe it to be the closest thing there is to one. So, kindly, shove it. ftp://ftp.csua.berkeley.edu/pub/cypherpunks/mailing_list/index.html is the site and page I am talking about. But, on a related note... X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-Id: a04310104b5ed7e0750e3@[207.111.242.243] In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 13:36:52 -0700 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hey kettle, this is the pot. Did you happen to notice you're black? From: Tim May [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: -C-P- Re: would it be so much to ask.. Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Precedence: bulk X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by nf5.netforward.com id RAA27537 ---signature file--- PGP Key Fingerprint: 446B 7718 B219 9F1E 43DD 8E4A 6BE9 D739 CCC5 7FD7 "I don't think [Linux] will be very successful in the long run." "My experience and some of my friends' experience is that Linux is quite unreliable. Microsoft is really unreliable but Linux is worse." -Ken Thompson, Interview May 1999. http://www.freebsd.org FreeBSD - The Power to Serve http://www.rfnj.org Radio Free New Jersey - 395 streams - 96kbps @ 44.1khz
Re: -C-P- Re: would it be so much to ask..
At 12:42 AM -0400 9/20/00, Asymmetric wrote: First off, let me point THIS out to you... A search on excite for +cypherpunks +list turns up a great deal of sites... The first site, "VERONA cypherpunks archives" has a link called "List Information", which goes nowhere. The second site, obscura.com has several links but no mention of the list itself. The third, fourth, fifth, sixth and ninth sites, the cypherpunks hyperarchive at inet-one.com, has a copy of an email message DIRECTED AT THE TOAD.COM ADDRESS that comes up first in the search, followed by some others. The SEVENTH site is homeport.org, and the first link on the site is to "The Cypherpunks Homepage" pointing to an FTP archive at berkeley, and has a link to the mailing list. This link specifically tells you TO use the toad.com address. So who is being ignorant exactly? You go to a page claiming to be the "Cypherpunks Homepage" and it says the mailing list is @toad.com?? The past is its own problem. We in the present are not responsible for the accumulated detritus from dead and defunct sites. Wake up and get a clue. Why don't you blame the asshole responsible for that site before blaming people who did their due diligence and turned up toad.com again and again? As it happens, this "homepage" makes no mention whatsoever about the other filtered lists.. not that I didn't know about Coderpunks or the others, but if you don't know, they aren't easy to just "bump into." This berkeley.edu site is the only site I've run across ever claiming to be "The Homepage" and I believe it to be the closest thing there is to one. So, kindly, shove it. Are you dumb, or just ignorant? That someone set up a "Cypherpunks home page" several years ago means nothing. That no one has done it since means much more...it means those since who read the list understand the churlishness of presuming to set up a "home page. A point lost on you, "Asymmetric," the same "Asymmetric" who says that anyone wishing to read the list should do so under his or her true name. But, on a related note... X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-Id: a04310104b5ed7e0750e3@[207.111.242.243] In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 13:36:52 -0700 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hey kettle, this is the pot. Did you happen to notice you're black? From: Tim May [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: -C-P- Re: would it be so much to ask.. Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you notice the _real_ list I copied? Check the above block. I copied the list the untermenschen hang out on just to make sure you'd see it. --Tim May -- -:-:-:-:-:-:-: Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, "Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.
RE: was: And you thought Nazi agitprop was controversial?
On Mon, 18 Sep 2000, Kerry L. Bonin wrote: especially software sold to us mass market consumers. I expect markets exist in which software has to be held to an extremely high standard of reliability (e.g. Space Shuttle, financial markets, health software, embedded systems spring to mind). How are liability issues dealt with in There is a specific group that handles the software for the Space Shuttle. There is an article at: http://www.fastcompany.com/online/06/writestuff.html. The solve the liability problem by being *very* *very* anal retentive and good at what they do. -- A quote from Petro's Archives: ** Sometimes it is said that man can not be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the forms of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question. -- Thomas Jefferson, 1st Inaugural
Re: -C-P- Re: would it be so much to ask..
At 1:03 AM -0400 9/20/00, Asymmetric wrote: At 13:47 09/19/2000 -0700, Tim May wrote: (P.S. Lose the toad.com address. Get a clue. Or, since you appear to be a luser, "loose the toad.com address.") You keep sending to it yourself. Mind explaining what the problem is? And how many anonymously-remailed messages to this list have ever, in all the years of this list, included reply blocks? No more than a small handful, as I recall seeing. Exactly my point. A weasler. You previously claimed that remailers routinely allowed this. Note that they usually don't, and certainly not without the remailer blocks present. Given that virtually no such messages made to the CP list have included such blocks, clearly what you claimed was not feasible. "the remailers allowed return mail" is terribly misleading, and probably arises out of ignorance of what reply blocks are and why they are so difficult to use, rather than imprecision in language. I did rather mean pseudo-anonymous remailer, and the other response indicating I was talking about Julfs' remailer was correct. It's not as though his was the only one that existed either, just the most popular.. likely among the most popular BECAUSE it kept this database and allowed responses; This is a lie. Plain and simple. There was Kremvax, but this predated Julf's PENET service by a couple of years. At the time of Julf's service, roughly 1992 to its shutdown in 1996, there were no other such systems. Please name one if you can. Your language above shows that your are you just bullshitting. You can't name a viable competitor, because there weren't any. And Julf's system has been down for four years. A lifetime in Internet years. Certainly of no relevance whatsover to your plaintiff calls for people to use reply-enable remailers if they wish to post to the list. If the database it was using had been encrypted with a key known only to the remailer software itself, then it would have been easier for him to refuse to give up the information that he was ordered to produce. Duh. Are you just now figuring this stuff out? As for my being naive as you claim in a second here, who is really being naive here? You think that just because the remailer doesn't maintain an active database of nym mappings that it's immdiately impossible for it to be reversed? You implicitly trust anyone who says "here, use my remailer, I guarantee it's anonymous?" Get with the program. One fucking line on a console, in a firewall rule, anywhere along the way could fuck you into losing your anonymity, unless the message was sent encrypted to the remailer, and that's just to start with. Duh. Get back to us when you figure out how chained remailers work, with PGP-nested messages. On second thought, _don't_ get back to us. I think that using a forged header is just as reliable as using an anonymous remailer, and just as anonymous if done right. There is no "port 25" hack involved. It's as simple as setting whatever email software you use to use X as it's smtp server, and then entering a nonexistant return address somewhere else. At best, you'll be totally anonymous. You have zero understanding of the issues involved. I regret having wasted even ten minutes today responding to you. On another note, if you're clued in enough to even know what an anonymous remailer is, where they can be found, and how to use them, This is rich. See my 1992 presentation on Chaumian remailers, given at the first Cypherpunks meeting, in September. See the earlier cited memos from 1988-91. See the features I described in detail. Compare to the reality of extant remailers. Then repeat your above comment with a straight face. Fucking newbies. --Tim May -- -:-:-:-:-:-:-: Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, "Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.
Re: would it be so much to ask..
At 12:43 PM -0400 9/19/00, Asymmetric wrote: At 10:24 09/19/2000 -0500, Anonymous Coward vomited: Hey, Retardo -- when did you ever check? If you had, you'd know that you can't reply to anon remailers. Try replying to this, you clueless shit. Now shut the fuck up about this bullshit, we're all tired of the subject, and if you can't be bothered to check the archives, get the fuck off the list. Actually asshole, there are plenty of anonymous remailers that DO let you reply to the originator. In case you're just a bit wet behind the ears yet and hadn't heard, a while back there was a big problem with one of them when the government ordered them to release their database mapping the pseudonyms back to the originators. You're way behind the times. Julf's system has been down for several years. A few Cypherpunks-style remailers support reply blocks, but very few. And if a reply block of some sort is not in the original message, it's of course hopeless. There were no such reply blocks in the messages cited here. Clueless? Far from it. How about this.. you shut your own ignorant ass before you make a bigger fool of yourself than you already have, and try and fucking consider for one second how you manage to sort through a hundred fucking spam messages a day sent to this list, 1. For starters, there are not a "hundred" spam messages a day. At the peak, when some yahoo (TM, The Yahoo Corporation) subscribed the toad address to many other lists, there were perhaps 50 such messages a day for a few days. 2. Being that the toad.com address was not to be the long term list address (Gilmore told us to find other host machines), I divert all toad.com traffic into its own folder. Which I sometimes look at, scan, but sometimes just delete en masse. This cuts out about 80% of all commercial messages, as near as I can tell. 3. Determining which remaining messages are spam is relatively easy. "THIS IS YOUR CHANCE TO BECOME WEALTHY!" and "Printer Supplies CHEAP" sort of gives it all away. 4. Filters. 5. There are compelling reasons to allow non-subscribed addresses. These points have been covered in hundreds of posts in dozens of threads over several years. Consult the archives. I've yet to see "Asymmetric [EMAIL PROTECTED]" post any meaningful or interesting articles, so I expect he's just another clueless newbie who's stumbled onto our list and now wants to remake it. Typical. and yet you apparently don't have the mental facility to delete my own messages if you find them so useless. It's pretty simple for you to add me to the killfile, why don't you do it? I could personally give a shit if you never read anything more I have to say. Have fun filtering the spam. Your wish is my command. * P L O N K * --Tim May -- -:-:-:-:-:-:-: Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, "Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.
Re: Re: would it be so much to ask..
Um, if there's any hint of a trail back to the sender where's the anonymity? Trust the recipient to use a remailer chain for the return path. or not. Include the return mail address in the body if you choose to. Isn't that what anonymity is about? Placing the choice for the disclosure of information and identity in the user's hands and nobody else's?
-C-P- Re: would it be so much to ask..
At 08:04 2000-09-19 -0400, you wrote: I can't see the -C-P- subject as really being functional for sorting out spam mail because anyone new to the list won't know to put them in, nor the people I mentioned who might wish to make anonymous announcements. The "-C-P-" think should of course be found in some kind of faq and/or in the subscribtion welcome message. What about just creating another list (closed-posting) and then just allowing people to choose which to subscribe to? Obviously, the open-posting list would be subscribed to the closed posting list, but not the other way around.. so at the risk of missing the massively important anonymous message that has yet to be sent, I could eliminate some of this spam? That might be a better idea yes. :) Some nice person might even forward "serious" remailed e-mails to the closed list (since they don´t seem to be too frequent). //Harald
rsa party correction
I made an error in the RSA party announcement. You do not need to wait until you receive an invitation after sending in your RSVP. Just send in your RSVP and print out the announcement as your invitation. thanks, -s
