Re: was: And you thought Nazi agitprop was controversial?

2000-09-20 Thread Gil Hamilton

Marcel Popescu writes:
From: "Trei, Peter" [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  Imagine if the software business were like this - that the programmers
  of the late 40's had formed an American Programmers Association,
  and it was unlawful for anyone without APA certification to write
  code for money.

Some people are trying to do this. See for example
http://www.colosseumbuilders.com/american.htm [I especially find the "no
foreign competition" (aka "no H1-B") disgusting. Tim May notwithstanding, 
we
DO compete with the americans - and a lot of us are better.]

What a hoot!  Thanks for the pointer. I don't know who these bozos
are, but their web site reads like the product of a bunch of high
school dropouts.  Guilds are of course dangerous and a bad idea,
for a long list of reasons that we've been over on this list
dozens of times.  Fortunately, no one is likely to take these
"programmers" seriously.

As a long-time software designer and implementer, I can
confidently say that anyone who believes there is no shortage
of programmers either isn't a programmer himself or has let his
skill set get way out of date.  And no, I don't live or work
anywhere near Silicon Valley either.  (Apparently, these folks
believe that it is the responsibility of their employers to
train them - they really need to take charge of their own
careers.)

They, as well as the academics whose works they have links to,
apparently believe that all those job postings in the papers and
on web sites are a vast right wing conspiracy designed to allow
the Evil Big Corporations to hire foreign programmers for peanuts
thru the H-1B program.

Mark, don't worry, the real programmers among us aren't afraid to
compete (actually, right now, there's plenty of work for everyone
who is competent so there's little need for real competetition).
Fortunately, these losers are unlikely to be successful in their
organizational and lobbying efforts.

- GH

_
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at 
http://profiles.msn.com.




RE: was: And you thought Nazi agitprop was controversial?

2000-09-19 Thread petro

On Mon, 18 Sep 2000, Kerry L. Bonin wrote:

especially software sold to us mass market consumers.  I expect markets
exist in which software has to be held to an extremely high standard of
reliability (e.g. Space Shuttle, financial markets, health software,
embedded systems spring to mind). How are liability issues dealt with in

There is a specific group that handles the software for the 
Space Shuttle. There is an article at: 
http://www.fastcompany.com/online/06/writestuff.html. The solve the 
liability problem by being *very* *very* anal retentive and good at 
what they do.
-- 
A quote from Petro's Archives:   **
Sometimes it is said that man can not be trusted with the government 
of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others? 
Or have we found angels in the forms of kings to govern him? Let 
history answer this question. -- Thomas Jefferson, 1st Inaugural