Re: Bitcoin... Destroying the planet
All: Quit fucking top posting and bulk quoting reams of useless shit. MB: > Correct me if i am wrong but won't energy for bitcoin mining drop soon > as we get to the end of the blockchain ? "The blockchain" has no specified "end". For BTC, you are meaning after all 21M coins worth of block rewards get mined. No, because the txfee will live on even after that. It turns out that "energy", let's call it "watts", may be unlikely to drop unless... 1) Transactors as a whole wake up and force it down by continually paying the bottom of the fee range. The network would be no less "secure' in all other regards, however below a certain point you do make it cheaper for govts / banks / adversaries to drop a 51% suprise wattage attack on your ass. As with calculating fee paydown, you can probably estimate how much those entities could fire up before facing a tax / crypto revolt. The more people you get into cryptocurrency sooner, the harder for those entities to do anything. 2) There's likely to be a fundamental drop when cryptocurrency has soaked up all the fiat, gold, assets, etc that it can, thus no longer providing price multipliers, only boring mining dividends, and other non-mining investments end up attractive as returning more to investors. Cryptocurrency has far more variables / paths / outcomes than even the above, which is what makes it beautiful.
Re: What is consensus?
On 12/10/2017 01:06 PM, g2s wrote: > > Original message > From: Georgi Guninski > Date: 12/10/17 8:02 AM (GMT-08:00) > To: cypherpunks@lists.cpunks.org > Subject: Re: What is consensus? > > On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 07:42:02AM -0800, g2s wrote: >> Consensus is defined as agreement. Voting is one process to > (hopefully) reach it. >> https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/consensus > > > lol > "If voting could change things, it would have been outlawed." -- anon > > Just check what fucks were elected by voting all over the world. > > I was NOT making an argument that voting works to change anything > systematic in media driven indoctrinated societies. I was simply > defining the word... further consensus Agreement doesn't always work > either, but if the "block" is honored it slows down the process and has > potential for correcting mistakes that may be harder to repair after the > fact. Re "What is consensus?" Mirmir replied "Ask any Quaker." That's me, and I am now required (dammit) to give a straight answer because I'm a Friend in good standing, a "made guy" so to speak. The quote from Georgi above seems to be part of the original thread so at least there's a context to answer the question in. Consensus means agreement. And that means a messy, organic, all too human hairball at work. The Quakers are often accused of governing themselves by consensus, and have been so accused for something approaching 400 years. Here's how we do it, more or less. Disclaimer: The following is not the "rules of RSOF engagement," so much as my own observation of Friends' process, developed from 20+ years of full participation, including lots of committee work for my monthly and yearly Meetings. I do push the Gospel of Truth in the manner of Friends, promoting the religious practice that makes Friends "a peculiar people" - which, back in the day, meant a "distinct" group. In practical application among Friends, consensus arises from local communities, small enough that everyone is at most at one remove in acquaintance from one another. Friends participate, first and foremost, in an agreement among themselves to work together in compliance with a specified process for decision making. When geographically dispersed Friends participate in regionally sponsored projects (and we do, non-stop), representatives selected by participating Meetings form committees; these committees execute the same consensus procedure to arrive at their recommendations to the regional body as a whole. No decision on matters of faith and practice or Meeting business becomes "binding" without advice and approval from Meeting as a whole. Quakers don't do "consensus" as that word is understood in a secular context. We make decisions based on "a sense of the Meeting," and we call the process for that discernment. Any Friend who has had Quakerism 101 understands that we are discerning the will of God, most properly so in silence broken only by vocal ministry as so led; having found that, the next step is to seek "way forward" toward compliance with our orders from the head office. Friends do present a peculiar position on God, this time in the modern sense of the word peculiar. Weighty Friends (made gals and guise who may speak rarely but do command attention, for reasons) have long agreed: Nobody can define or describe God. But whatever that word stands for, we know it when we see it in motion, and accept that once set on a path by that force, one must do /something/ regardless of personal preferences or interests. "Friends don't vote," but we do discriminate: Membership in our Society is accomplished by a consensus between oneself and the local Meeting's membership at large - there's a formal process for that, and new or transferred members are recorded or "minuted" as such by the clerk of their Meeting. Roles such as Clerk of Meeting, Trustees, etc. will nearly always be filled by members of Meeting, as will committees that engage in pastoral counseling where confidentiality issues may arise. All other committees are wide open for any member or attender to sit in on. Friends normally meet weekly for meeting for worship, and monthly for "meeting for worship with a concern for business," which is open to all. Committees report to the latter meeting on a monthly basis, but otherwise work where and as expedient. It can take Friends half of forever to get anything outside of established routine done, but what we do sticks. Conversely, when a situation requires it Friends form and operate voluntary organizations in near real-time. Friends' Service Committees have crossed active battlefields in caravans carrying relief supplies to besieged civilians, literally using their religious authority and single-minded commitment as their only shield and weapon. Friends enjoy a certain notoriety for tolerance, but not the usual kind where someone is "tolerated" for the sake of appearance or process compliance: E
Re: Bitcoin... Destroying the planet
On 12/11/2017 09:59 PM, John Newman wrote: > > >> On Dec 10, 2017, at 12:33 PM, Kurt Buff wrote: >> >>> On Sat, Dec 9, 2017 at 7:10 PM, g2s wrote: >>> >>> Original message >>> From: Kurt Buff >>> Date: 12/9/17 2:50 PM (GMT-08:00) >>> To: cypherpunks@lists.cpunks.org >>> Subject: Re: Bitcoin... Destroying the planet >>> On Sat, Dec 9, 2017 at 2:24 PM, z9wahqvh wrote: On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 9:22 PM, Michael Nelson wrote: > > The mapping between Bitcoin and energy is missing the point, from the > point of view of understanding the system. The correct mapping is between > Bitcoin and the *price* of energy. > > If electricity were 10 times as expensive, Bitcoin mining use of electric > power would drop by a factor of 10 (for a given BTC price). The point of > spending money on mining is to be competitive. The absolute amount of > power > is irrelevant. > > This means that if governments raised the price of electricity, or > resources used for generating it, then BTC would never be a problem. Not > trivial to do, admittedly, but the point here is to understand the > system. it has nothing to do with the price of energy. the price of energy is never mentioned in the analyses that worry about Bitcoin's energy use, and for good reason. the problem with Bitcoin is that it uses an enormous QUANTITY of energy to verify each new transaction. That amount has nothing to do with the price of energy. It is a quantity of energy, measured in kilowatt hours or whatever quantity you want (they currently use "TeraWatt hours," because it uses that much). It takes a certain amount of coal or oil or solar power to generate those kilowatt hours, and the number is rising steeply: https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption There is no mention of price in the equations that produce this analysis, nor should there be. IF coal and oil did not pollute and we had infinite free energy, this would not be a problem. But they do, and we don't, and it is, and it's getting worse. >>> >>> You gloss over the fact that if coal and oil didn't pollute, and we >>> had infinite free energy, bitcoin would be (relatively) >>> [use|worth]less, and we'd not have to worry about most any shortage at >>> all. >>> >>> Michael drew the correct conclusion. >>> >>> Bitcoin is produced in relation to other economic goods, and under the >>> constraints of the costs of energy and computer infrastructure. If >>> those costs go up, production of bitcoin goes does, and if other >>> economic goods become more valuable relative to bitcoin, then again >>> production of bitcoin goes down. >>> >>> Kurt >>> >>> A total evasion of the point. Point being Dead planet" sooner than later. >>> >>> Rr >> >> You don't define what you mean by "kill the planet", nor "dead >> planet", but not even if every country launched all of their nuclear >> weapons at once could we kill the planet. It's not even certain such >> an event would kill all humans. >> >> At this stage in our technology, we simply can't do it. >> >> Kurt > > > Wrong. The nuclear winter from ~15000 nukes detonated around the globe > would kill all humanity. > Correct me if i am wrong but won't energy for bitcoin mining drop soon as we get to the end of the blockchain ? --- Marina
Re: Bitcoin... Destroying the planet
> On Dec 10, 2017, at 12:33 PM, Kurt Buff wrote: > >> On Sat, Dec 9, 2017 at 7:10 PM, g2s wrote: >> >> Original message >> From: Kurt Buff >> Date: 12/9/17 2:50 PM (GMT-08:00) >> To: cypherpunks@lists.cpunks.org >> Subject: Re: Bitcoin... Destroying the planet >> >>> On Sat, Dec 9, 2017 at 2:24 PM, z9wahqvh wrote: >>> On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 9:22 PM, Michael Nelson >>> wrote: The mapping between Bitcoin and energy is missing the point, from the point of view of understanding the system. The correct mapping is between Bitcoin and the *price* of energy. If electricity were 10 times as expensive, Bitcoin mining use of electric power would drop by a factor of 10 (for a given BTC price). The point of spending money on mining is to be competitive. The absolute amount of power is irrelevant. This means that if governments raised the price of electricity, or resources used for generating it, then BTC would never be a problem. Not trivial to do, admittedly, but the point here is to understand the system. >>> >>> >>> it has nothing to do with the price of energy. the price of energy is >>> never >>> mentioned in the analyses that worry about Bitcoin's energy use, and for >>> good reason. >>> >>> the problem with Bitcoin is that it uses an enormous QUANTITY of energy to >>> verify each new transaction. That amount has nothing to do with the price >>> of >>> energy. It is a quantity of energy, measured in kilowatt hours or whatever >>> quantity you want (they currently use "TeraWatt hours," because it uses >>> that >>> much). It takes a certain amount of coal or oil or solar power to generate >>> those kilowatt hours, and the number is rising steeply: >>> >>> https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption >>> >>> There is no mention of price in the equations that produce this analysis, >>> nor should there be. >>> >>> IF coal and oil did not pollute and we had infinite free energy, this >>> would >>> not be a problem. But they do, and we don't, and it is, and it's getting >>> worse. >> >> You gloss over the fact that if coal and oil didn't pollute, and we >> had infinite free energy, bitcoin would be (relatively) >> [use|worth]less, and we'd not have to worry about most any shortage at >> all. >> >> Michael drew the correct conclusion. >> >> Bitcoin is produced in relation to other economic goods, and under the >> constraints of the costs of energy and computer infrastructure. If >> those costs go up, production of bitcoin goes does, and if other >> economic goods become more valuable relative to bitcoin, then again >> production of bitcoin goes down. >> >> Kurt >> >> A total evasion of the point. Point being Dead planet" sooner than later. >> >> Rr > > You don't define what you mean by "kill the planet", nor "dead > planet", but not even if every country launched all of their nuclear > weapons at once could we kill the planet. It's not even certain such > an event would kill all humans. > > At this stage in our technology, we simply can't do it. > > Kurt Wrong. The nuclear winter from ~15000 nukes detonated around the globe would kill all humanity.
Re: The Red Pill
On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 20:30:04 -0200 Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > Whoops, the link! Sorry! :P > > https://medium.com/@marlene.jaeckel/the-empress-has-no-clothes-the-dark-underbelly-of-women-who-code-and-google-women-techmakers-723be27a45df > That was interesting. It's nice to see some opposition to the totalitarians. Although looking at the bigger picture it may be more like infighting than principled opposition. After all, these now google-heretics used to be google-accomplices. But I guess they are the best we have at the moment...
[WAR] Who saved the Jews? Iran - and 3 times!
This could be subtitled "biting the hand that feeds you", and the conclusion to this relatively short history recap (if you can call it such), is nothing short of "surprisingly astonishing" (to riff on Mercedes marketing clichés such as “surprisingly quick” [for a 2.5 tonne car, aka plant food- and soot- generating machine]. Iran - saviour of the Jews - three fricken' times! And what gratitude do the modern Persians get? Endless propaganda about how they "want" to totally destroy Israel. Bibi’s Bible stories: How Netanyahu invokes holy scripture to justify Israel's interests https://www.rt.com/news/412791-netanyahu-bible-israel-jerusalem/
Re: The Red Pill
Whoops, the link! Sorry! :P https://medium.com/@marlene.jaeckel/the-empress-has-no-clothes-the-dark-underbelly-of-women-who-code-and-google-women-techmakers-723be27a45df -- "Don't let anyone rob you of your imagination, your creativity, or your curiosity. It's your place in the world; it's your life. Go on and do all you can with it, and make it the life you want to live." - Mae Jemison On Dec 11, 2017 19:27, "Cecilia Tanaka" wrote: Deeply sorry for top posting and not snipping the previous messages, but it will give a painful background about what is happening in different countries with some women. Sorry, I am not a victim. I am a proud woman and I do love it. Your gender doesn't define your character and ethics. You do it with your acts and words. Love and hope, Ceci -- "Don't let anyone rob you of your imagination, your creativity, or your curiosity. It's your place in the world; it's your life. Go on and do all you can with it, and make it the life you want to live." - Mae Jemison On Nov 27, 2017 14:58, "Cecilia Tanaka" wrote: On Nov 27, 2017 14:10, "juan" wrote: Interestingly enough I couldn't find a torrent but here's a copy with spanish subtitles. http://theredpillmovie.com/about/ https://archive.org/details/LaPildoraRojaDocumentalSubtitulado The film is so so and the men in it are retarded but what's great of course is that the author is intellectualy honest, realized what sort of garbage 'feminism' is, and had the courage to speak up. I would love to know why the US military has decided to ramp up their feminazi propaganda in the last two years or so. Have you guys ever heard about jacob appelbaum and the tor project? It's interesting how people in this list never mention what happened to appelbaum and how the feminists run the tor project? Cecilia? Got any info on the topic? == Please, Juan, let Jake in peace. He is studying, working, and still fighting against nightmares and unfair sexist allegations, some of them, no more than shameful lies. In this exact moment, my head is exploding with a hardcore migraine, so I will watch the movie and give my opinion later, sorry. What I can do to make clear my point of view about some subjects is to paste two of my private emails, both sent in the last week to a person that I deeply love and trust with my whole heart. I know I will be more hated than usual, but it doesn't care. I am being absolutely sincere. Ceci === On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 4:55 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: Hi, my dearest ! Hope you are feeling better today, more hopeful and happy. It's a holiday in my city, is raining, and I love you! <3 Some weeks ago, I had a very hard conversation with some friends and I decided to avoid and/or boycott all the events with sexist or unfair codes of conduct. Good sense and conversation should be enough among rational people. We do not need hundreds of rules. It's ridiculous to prejudge someone because of their gender, race, sexual choice, whatever. Well, I became a kind of "case" for being the first girl of the Human Sciences Area to become a co-founder and a member of the PyLadies in my country. After a lot of discussions, I left my own group, considered actually the biggest Brazilian female coding group, because of the prejudice of some members (cis women) against men and trans women. They seem to hate any human being with a penis and some of them say that feel very "uncomfortable" with trans women "because they are not like us". I did sincerely reject it with all my heart. They are using their vaginas like weapons to justify making the same kind of discrimination and violent attacks that we used to suffer in the past. We have vaginas, but we are not victims and now it's time for talking about technology and stop with all the drama. Shit, I want more and more women talking about technology, not anymore about how hard is to be a woman talking about tech, how hard is being a woman, the eternal non-stop victimism. Yes, we still have victims, but we also need to show some work instead of only drama. God, it is not impossible or so hard! We just need a bit more of good-will and patience. I was and I am still the moderator of the PyLadies and Django Girls Brazilian lists, but we had a horrible discussion about the fact I always approve male confirmed collaborators, which I've known in person. They are helping the groups, so they deserve the chance of giving their opinions and feedbacks about important subjects, like our meetings. I don't know if Freud can explain it, but some of these women are mean, selfish, and just want fame, become known in the tech area, and seem to see men like stronger candidates for the same jobs and talks. Last week, some evil women very, very limited and stupid wanted to punish a girl who tweeted a post only because it was
Re: The Red Pill
Deeply sorry for top posting and not snipping the previous messages, but it will give a painful background about what is happening in different countries with some women. Sorry, I am not a victim. I am a proud woman and I do love it. Your gender doesn't define your character and ethics. You do it with your acts and words. Love and hope, Ceci -- "Don't let anyone rob you of your imagination, your creativity, or your curiosity. It's your place in the world; it's your life. Go on and do all you can with it, and make it the life you want to live." - Mae Jemison On Nov 27, 2017 14:58, "Cecilia Tanaka" wrote: On Nov 27, 2017 14:10, "juan" wrote: Interestingly enough I couldn't find a torrent but here's a copy with spanish subtitles. http://theredpillmovie.com/about/ https://archive.org/details/LaPildoraRojaDocumentalSubtitulado The film is so so and the men in it are retarded but what's great of course is that the author is intellectualy honest, realized what sort of garbage 'feminism' is, and had the courage to speak up. I would love to know why the US military has decided to ramp up their feminazi propaganda in the last two years or so. Have you guys ever heard about jacob appelbaum and the tor project? It's interesting how people in this list never mention what happened to appelbaum and how the feminists run the tor project? Cecilia? Got any info on the topic? == Please, Juan, let Jake in peace. He is studying, working, and still fighting against nightmares and unfair sexist allegations, some of them, no more than shameful lies. In this exact moment, my head is exploding with a hardcore migraine, so I will watch the movie and give my opinion later, sorry. What I can do to make clear my point of view about some subjects is to paste two of my private emails, both sent in the last week to a person that I deeply love and trust with my whole heart. I know I will be more hated than usual, but it doesn't care. I am being absolutely sincere. Ceci === On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 4:55 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: Hi, my dearest ! Hope you are feeling better today, more hopeful and happy. It's a holiday in my city, is raining, and I love you! <3 Some weeks ago, I had a very hard conversation with some friends and I decided to avoid and/or boycott all the events with sexist or unfair codes of conduct. Good sense and conversation should be enough among rational people. We do not need hundreds of rules. It's ridiculous to prejudge someone because of their gender, race, sexual choice, whatever. Well, I became a kind of "case" for being the first girl of the Human Sciences Area to become a co-founder and a member of the PyLadies in my country. After a lot of discussions, I left my own group, considered actually the biggest Brazilian female coding group, because of the prejudice of some members (cis women) against men and trans women. They seem to hate any human being with a penis and some of them say that feel very "uncomfortable" with trans women "because they are not like us". I did sincerely reject it with all my heart. They are using their vaginas like weapons to justify making the same kind of discrimination and violent attacks that we used to suffer in the past. We have vaginas, but we are not victims and now it's time for talking about technology and stop with all the drama. Shit, I want more and more women talking about technology, not anymore about how hard is to be a woman talking about tech, how hard is being a woman, the eternal non-stop victimism. Yes, we still have victims, but we also need to show some work instead of only drama. God, it is not impossible or so hard! We just need a bit more of good-will and patience. I was and I am still the moderator of the PyLadies and Django Girls Brazilian lists, but we had a horrible discussion about the fact I always approve male confirmed collaborators, which I've known in person. They are helping the groups, so they deserve the chance of giving their opinions and feedbacks about important subjects, like our meetings. I don't know if Freud can explain it, but some of these women are mean, selfish, and just want fame, become known in the tech area, and seem to see men like stronger candidates for the same jobs and talks. Last week, some evil women very, very limited and stupid wanted to punish a girl who tweeted a post only because it was written by a man. Can you believe it? It was so ridiculous, so surreal, that I decided to become more present in the discussions and a little bit more "savage". My English stinks, but my Portuguese is precise and very good, so I can present several rational arguments and... well... you can imagine the drama, uff... I am very unhappy too, my dear. And I am a cute hetero cis woman, "a poor victim". :(( Little kisses, hot chocolate and cozy snuggl
Re: Bitcoin... Destroying the planet
Original message From: George Larson Date: 12/11/17 7:45 AM (GMT-08:00) To: g2s Cc: Michael Nelson , cypherpunks@lists.cpunks.org Subject: Re: Bitcoin... Destroying the planet > bitcoin generates huge amounts of pollution due to its electric demands "The physical money we use today requires a total of 11 terawatt-hours per year to produce. Gold mining, another very labor-intensive process, requires as much as 132 terawatt-hours. These numbers make Bitcoin and its 8.27 terawatt-hours look like a science fair project." https://themerkle.com/bitcoin-networks-electricity-consumption-is-lower-compared-to-printing-money/ On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 10:31 PM, g2s wrote: Original message From: Michael Nelson Date: 12/8/17 6:22 PM (GMT-08:00) To: cypherpunks@lists.cpunks.org Subject: Bitcoin... Destroying the planet > The mapping between Bitcoin and energy is missing the point... Not if the point is a dead planet. That's ALL I care about. Cars, which you mention, are another much thornier issue because they've been made a social necessity and that will take time to undo. As with another not often acknowledged source of carbon based pollution due to humans... The factories that make damn near everything consumer industrial societies have. But unlike those things, bitcoin generates huge amounts of pollution due to its electric demands, and, bluntly, it isn't necessary in any way shape or form. Rr You're forgetting how to add. As in added electrical demand and concurrent pollution in the here and now. Furthermore, we learn in Sociology 1 that as dirty as primitive societies are about their energy use, they use the energy MUCH more efficiently, and I suggest that applies to any "improvement" in currency as well. Scaled, btc will be less efficient in its use of energy leading to "dead planet". To clarify that... dead as far as human survival. Rr
Re: Cryptocurrency Futures
Here's a long thread on peoples understanding of what crypto currency and its economic implications are... https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/7iyej5/bitcoin_exposes_the_massive_economic_illiteracy/ A smaller one on crypto futures... https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/7iy5wd/waiting_for_cboe_all_day_and_then/ Website on US Senate Bill 1241 regarding the large thread below... https://save-crypto.com/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/7iey6q/us_senate_bill_s1241_to_criminalize_concealed/ All from a few lines of crypto software in 2009. Expect more.
Re: Bitcoin currency options? was: Cryptocurrency Futures
> Are there bitcoin (or cryptocurrency) currency options? Haven't seen any but have seen news of talks to open such desks, fake news till it happens. > Essentially they are gambling instruments. IIRC unlike futures they > require significantly lower initial investment and the potential profit > is unbounded. https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Option_(finance)
Legal Americans - the worst scum on the planet
look at the comments there - even the german nazis were more tolerant - now, the intercept is a 'progressive' propaganda outlet yet funnily enough 99% of the comments there come from members of the KKK or their moral equivalent. https://theintercept.com/2017/12/10/theyre-taking-everybody-videos-show-texas-troopers-ripping-apart-immigrant-families-during-traffic-stops/?comments=1#comments ps : the motherfuckers who want to keep the 'illegals' out are pieces of european nazi shit who invaded america and stole all the land. Funny how land thieves are the supreme creators and keepers of justice.
Re: Bitcoin... Destroying the planet
> bitcoin generates huge amounts of pollution due to its electric demands "The physical money we use today requires a total of 11 terawatt-hours per year to produce. Gold mining, another very labor-intensive process, requires as much as 132 terawatt-hours. These numbers make Bitcoin and its 8.27 terawatt-hours look like a science fair project." https://themerkle.com/bitcoin-networks-electricity-consumption-is-lower-compared-to-printing-money/ On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 10:31 PM, g2s wrote: > > Original message > From: Michael Nelson > Date: 12/8/17 6:22 PM (GMT-08:00) > To: cypherpunks@lists.cpunks.org > Subject: Bitcoin... Destroying the planet > > > The mapping between Bitcoin and energy is missing the point... > > Not if the point is a dead planet. > > That's ALL I care about. Cars, which you mention, are another much > thornier issue because they've been made a social necessity and that will > take time to undo. As with another not often acknowledged source of carbon > based pollution due to humans... The factories that make damn near > everything consumer industrial societies have. > > But unlike those things, bitcoin generates huge amounts of pollution due > to its electric demands, and, bluntly, it isn't necessary in any way shape > or form. > > Rr >
Re: Bitcoin currency options? was: Cryptocurrency Futures
On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 11:59:13PM -0500, grarpamp wrote: > CBOE-XBT 1/2/3 month all up 10% over spot in opening trading. > First day settlement price TBD... > One more week till round two @CME. Are there bitcoin (or cryptocurrency) currency options? Essentially they are gambling instruments. IIRC unlike futures they require significantly lower initial investment and the potential profit is unbounded.
Re: Do you want to know how to actually get rid of nuclear weapons?
[fix address] On Monday, December 11, 2017, 12:26:15 AM PST, jim bell wrote: From the title of your organization, it appears that you want to abolish nuclear weapons. i...@icanw.orgi have already figured out how to do so, as strange as that claim may appear. I would like to tell you how to do so, as a product of a series of emails. Please reply so that we can start the discussion. Ideally, please subscribe to the Cypherpunks mail list, and copy your responses there. Jim Bell P.S. this is the organization that received the Nobel Peace Prize a couple months ago. ICAN http://www.icanw.org
Do you want to know how to actually get rid of nuclear weapons?
>From the title of your organization, it appears that you want to abolish >nuclear weapons. i...@icanw.orgi have already figured out how to do so, >as strange as that claim may appear. I would like to tell you how to do so, >as a product of a series of emails. Please reply so that we can start the >discussion. Ideally, please subscribe to the Cypherpunks mail list, and copy >your responses there. Jim Bell P.S. this is the organization that received the Nobel Peace Prize a couple months ago. ICAN http://www.icanw.org
