Re: Internet censorship, including extorted by government, must cease.
On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 08:42:38PM +, jim bell wrote: > On Thursday, October 22, 2020, 11:19:55 PM PDT, Zenaan Harkness > wrote: > On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 06:01:46AM +, jim bell wrote: > >> This article https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzqniEaXwQg=youtu.be > >> has the headline: "Congressional Democrats Threaten Big Tech To Censor > >> Americans Or Else" > > >> If this kind of government-threat can exist, then one solution is to > >> declare that communications over the Internet within wires (and fibers) > >> located within the United States are governed by the First Amendment of > >> the US Constitution. Private companies are availing themselves of a system > >> initiated by a relatively small amount of government research, and > >> developed by other designers and manufacturers. > > >Unfortunately as Juan correctly points out so often, gov is usually in > >partnership with BigCorp. > > True. Which is why I think we need to disable BOTH the Government(s) AND > those companies making up "The Internet" from colluding with each other to > enable censorship, as much as we now know they'd want to do! People could > talk in the "Town Square", and now that has migrated to virtual space. I > think it's important to maintain that status. ... > 'Fortunately' for us, those Senate Democrats have made the serious mistake of > trying to threaten online services to get them to engage in such > censorship. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzqniEaXwQg=youtu.be > That, and the First Amendment prohibition on "Congress shall make no law..." > clearly shows that the public must be protected from the consequences of > extortion committed by government people inducing private organizations to, > themselves, 'take sides', and extort the public. Another consideration is that the ISPs were granted exemption from prosecution for publishing, because they were "mere carriers", and thus had no authority over the information carried. BigTech claims that same exemption.
Re: Internet censorship, including extorted by government, must cease.
On Thursday, October 22, 2020, 11:19:55 PM PDT, Zenaan Harkness
wrote:
On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 06:01:46AM +, jim bell wrote:
>> This article https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzqniEaXwQg=youtu.be
>> has the headline: "Congressional Democrats Threaten Big Tech To Censor
>> Americans Or Else"
>> If this kind of government-threat can exist, then one solution is to declare
>> that communications over the Internet within wires (and fibers) located
>> within the United States are governed by the First Amendment of the US
>> Constitution. Private companies are availing themselves of a system
>> initiated by a relatively small amount of government research, and developed
>> by other designers and manufacturers.
>Unfortunately as Juan correctly points out so often, gov is usually in
>partnership with BigCorp.
True. Which is why I think we need to disable BOTH the Government(s) AND those
companies making up "The Internet" from colluding with each other to enable
censorship, as much as we now know they'd want to do! People could talk in the
"Town Square", and now that has migrated to virtual space. I think it's
important to maintain that status.
Keep in mind that what I am describing here is NOT the (libertarian) endpoint,
but it's in fact a process that starts with today's non-libertarian world.
>The money behind the scenes - debt based (rather than credit based) banking,
>and the funnelling of money to create trillion $$ companies, is a very
>powerful enemy of the people.
>Combine that with the Shut It Down censorship of the trillion $$ tech
>companies, and we have a very formidable adversary.
Under today's Constitution and laws, the Federal Government apparently has at
least some authority over the Internet: The (Interstate) Commerce Clause.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commerce_Clause
Article I, Section 8, Clause 3:[3]
[The Congress shall have Power] To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and
among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
What we know as the Internet crosses both State lines and national boundaries.
The Internet also crosses and passes through various rights-of-way that are
Federally regulated, for example beside Interstate Highways and beside railroad
tracks. (For just one example, the Sprint company got its start in the late
1970's, taking advantage of its rights-of-way in the railroad business:
"Souther Pacific Railway Internal Networking Telephony"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprint_Corporation
The Internet as most people knew it in the mid-1990's was only available
because they used high-speed modems (9600 bps, 14.4Kbps, 28.8Kbps) and
Federally-regulated telephone lines to connect to ISPs all over the country.
Those ISPs relied on telephone lines to make their business: Without that,
they would have had to make something else, but they chose not to do so.
The First Amendment to the US Constitution says this:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or
of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition
the Government for a redress of grievances.
I focus on this:
"Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech, or of the
press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the
Government for a redress of grievances."
Yet, Federal law presumably controls many aspects of the Internet, at least
that portion within the United States. Federal law ("Section 230") currently
grants a certain level of immunity for businesses which structure their
services in some way, which those businesses have apparently requested.
"Freedom of speech" has long been exercised by people, over hardware systems
and software owned and controlled by those businesses, with the knowledge,
intent, and consent of those businesses. There is nothing inherent in those
businesses which REQUIRE shutting down some speech, as evidenced by how little
such control and censorship has occurred until relatively recently.
These businesses have begun to impede people's use of that Federally-regulated
medium, used for purposes of exercising their 'freedom of speech", accessing
"the press", and "assembling".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzqniEaXwQg=youtu.be They have also
used that Federally-regulated medium to "petition the Government for redress of
grievances". It would be astonishing if the Federal Government were claimed
(at least under 'conventional' political philosophy) to be unable to act to
protect against the denials of these usages which have long (well over 25
years) been exercised without substantial interference.
All this says is that the American Federal Government COULD prohibit the kinds
of censorship-by-bias that has been done by Twitter and Facebook: It does not
necessarily mean that the Feds MUST prohibit it. But I
Re: Internet censorship, including extorted by government, must cease.
On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 06:01:46AM +, jim bell wrote: > This article https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzqniEaXwQg=youtu.be > has the headline: "Congressional Democrats Threaten Big Tech To Censor > Americans Or Else" > > > If this kind of government-threat can exist, then one solution is to declare > that communications over the Internet within wires (and fibers) located > within the United States are governed by the First Amendment of the US > Constitution. Private companies are availing themselves of a system initiated > by a relatively small amount of government research, and developed by other > designers and manufacturers. Unfortunately as Juan correctly points out so often, gov is usually in partnership with BigCorp. The money behind the scenes - debt based (rather than credit based) banking, and the funnelling of money to create trillion $$ companies, is a very powerful enemy of the people. Combine that with the Shut It Down censorship of the trillion $$ tech companies, and we have a very formidable adversary. Combine that with military's (DARPA) general intention to control communications (therefore a huge push to endless centralisation) and we have, overall, an even larger problem. It's a big problem we face. > If 'private companies' wish to communicate over systems OTHER THAN the > "internet", they are free to design that system, implement it, and the First > Amendment WON'T apply to them. Note: the majority of people use the Google and Apple walled garden app stores. What confidence do you have in people to avoid an "alternate, fully corporate owned and controlled" internet were built by BigCorp? The record shows that people, on the whole, do not oppose their own enslavement. > I'm not sure that this would really qualify as a "libertarian solution", but > it is dangerous that "government" is trying to extort organizations like > Facebook and Twitter to engage in censorship. This possibility must cease. Our problems are multiplicitous. The paucity of benevolent politicians is a problem. Folks with a conscience (i.e. those who are not sociopaths) must cognise the necessity to take seats of power in our various communities. Usually only sociopaths take such seats of power, whilst "good" people get on with their lives. Evil only survives where good men do nothing.
Internet censorship, including extorted by government, must cease.
This article https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzqniEaXwQg=youtu.be has the headline: "Congressional Democrats Threaten Big Tech To Censor Americans Or Else" If this kind of government-threat can exist, then one solution is to declare that communications over the Internet within wires (and fibers) located within the United States are governed by the First Amendment of the US Constitution. Private companies are availing themselves of a system initiated by a relatively small amount of government research, and developed by other designers and manufacturers. If 'private companies' wish to communicate over systems OTHER THAN the "internet", they are free to design that system, implement it, and the First Amendment WON'T apply to them. I'm not sure that this would really qualify as a "libertarian solution", but it is dangerous that "government" is trying to extort organizations like Facebook and Twitter to engage in censorship. This possibility must cease. Jim Bell
