Re: Cypherpunk 2027 - the future keeps happening

[Karl Semich]

On Sun, Jan 7, 2024 at 7:34 AM  wrote:
>
> Feel the power -  live the dream, and. . . welcome to the revolution!
>
> Cypherpunk 2027 latest! ( From Ethan Hunt,  sorry, Mollick )
>
> AI development seems to be happening much, much faster than even experts 
> expected. We can be confident about that because a new paper just came out 
> surveying almost three thousand published AI researchers, following up on a 
> similar paper published a year earlier. The average estimated date for when 
> AI could beat humans at every possible task shifted dramatically, moving from 
> 2060 to 2047—a decrease of 13 years—in just the past year alone! (And the 
> collective estimate was that there was a 10% chance that it would happen by 
> 2027)

This is true now. People are just releasing it slowly.

>
> Viva la revolution!

Re: Cypherpunk ethics suffers undescribed horrific abuse

[Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many]

The subject draws me to consider what I'm doing here, and what has
happened to the cypherpunks, and wonder if I should leave space for
others like you to post.

The body seems opaque, and I start wondering if you're communicating
in some sort of code or something. Not a path I plan to tread down at
this time.

Re: Cypherpunk list subscriber "threatening" Feds

[professor rat]

Thanks Greg 
Its probably a Google issue as I was able to find it that way for a while but 
their service has deteriorated recently. Enclosed copy

Denver Post
Online threats target Denver investigators - Anarchist says e-mails harmless; 
feds disagree
By Jim Hughes - Denver Post Staff Writer
Monday, July 07, 2003 - An anarchist using the online moniker “Professor Rat” 
has threatened the lives of two federal terrorism investigators in Denver, 
advocating that they “need killing.” The threats name an FBI agent assigned to 
the local multiagency Joint Terrorism Task Force and the government’s lead 
prosecutor of terrorism cases in Colorado.
Although those who travel in the same online circles as Professor Rat say his 
provocations are not to be taken seriously, officials say they are concerned 
about the threats, which were sent to an e-mail listserv and posted on the 
Internet in April.
“The recipients of the threats have no way to discern their validity,” said 
Jeff Dorschner, spokesman for the U.S. attorney’s office. "They cause fear and 
they disrupt lives, and it’s for that reason that they’re taken very seriously.
“It’s more than the individual targets. It’s the families and those associated 
with them,” he said.
That is the purpose of the postings, an Australian man who admits to using the 
Professor Rat name and to posting these kinds of threats saidin a telephone 
interview and a series of e-mails: To scare people out of working for the 
government.
He refused to admit to any specific threat, to avoid prosecution, he said. He 
already is charged with making similar threats against police in Australia, 
according to the Victoria Police in Melbourne.
Saying that his real name was Matt Taylor and that he was 48 years old, 
Professor Rat said he promotes a theory called Assassination Politics that 
emerged at the periphery of cyberanarchist circles in 1997. The concept is that 
of an online lottery in which people bet on a date that public figures will 
die. The implication is that the lottery “winner” likely helped arrange the 
death. Winnings would be paid in untraceable digital cash, which does not yet 
exist. The development of digital money, and encryption software restricting 
government’s ability to monitor Internet activity, are common goals among the 
online anarchists and libertarians known as “cypherpunks.”
The ultimate purpose of Assassination Politics is to deter people from working 
for government agencies, corporate media outlets or institutions “beholden to 
the violence of the state,” Taylor said. Professor Rat also has threatened a 
University of Ottawa law professor, a columnist for The Boston Globe and a 
Cincinnati police officer. Many of those threats were posted to a listserv 
called Cypherpunks. The e-mail distribution network allows libertarians and 
anarchists interested in the tension between government oversight and 
individual liberty on the Internet to discuss those issues via e-mails that 
when sent to the listserv are distributed to all members.
Dorschner would not say whether there was an investigation into Professor Rat, 
calling the matter an issue of “internal security.” The columnist for The 
Boston Globe, whose sin, in the eyes of Professor Rat, was to criticize civil 
libertarians for objecting to the Patriot Act of 2001, said he did not take the 
threat at all seriously. He learned of the threat only last week, when told of 
it by The Denver Post, he said. The Post is withholding the names of the 
subjects of posts by Professor Rat to avoid promoting any specific threats. 
“The way I see it, this kind of talk is pretty cheap on the Internet,” the 
columnist said. “This is something I would consider casual hate speech. This 
person didn’t send me an e-mail saying 'I’m going to kill you.”’ But officials 
in Denver see nothing casual about the statements, Dorschner said.
In an interview, Taylor taunted the Denver officials named in the April 8 
statement. “They’re welcome to come and get me extradited,” he said. “Here I 
am. Come and get me.”
The Cypherpunks listserv is also where Jim Bell, an MIT-trained chemist and 
Washington anarchist who now is in prison for interstate stalking of federal 
agents, unveiled his Assassination Politics. He was convicted in 2001. Federal 
prosecutors in Seattle that year also won a conviction against Carl Johnson, a 
Canadian man accused of threatening federal judges and Microsoft founder Bill 
Gates by e-mail.
Later in 2001, Thomas Wales, a federal prosecutor in Seattle, was shot to 
death. Though his death was noted on the Cypherpunks listserv, no connection to 
Assassination Politics has ever been made. The case remains unsolved. John 
Hartingh, spokesman for the U.S. attorney’s office in Seattle, declined to 
comment on Wales’ death. Taylor said his threats are intended solely as a 
rhetorical deterrent.
“No one has to die,” he said. “All that has to happen is for people to accept 
the system.”
If anyone Taylor threatened ever 

Re: Cypherpunk list subscriber "threatening" Feds

[Greg Newby]

If someone could point me at where the hole in the archive is, I can take 
another look. From the date of the reposting 
(https://buttdarling.insanejournal.com/129512.html?mode=reply) it sounds like 
maybe the archives missed some stuff just after the server upgrade on December 
21/22.

  https://lists.cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/2022-December/date.html

I suspect that if a message went to the list, but not the archive, then it's 
not on the server anywhere...

If someone has the missing message, just forward it here and it will go into 
the archives after the fact!
  ~ Greg


On Fri, Dec 23, 2022 at 02:47:57PM -0500, Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One 
Victim & Survivor of Many wrote:
> Thank you for your reply. I haven't fully processed it. I get the
> impression that posting this is helpful in protecting things for you.
> It certainly seems important if it is missing from records.
> 
> > Do you still have the link to the article?
> >
> > The Post no longer publishes it and the Hettinga repost has gone missing (
> > Greg? )
> > I don't link to Conde Nast's edited version at McCullagh's since he went
> > over to the enemy in 2001.
> >
> > I can publish the entire article here if desired or alternatively direct the
> > curious to my insane journal back-up at ' buttdarling ' .
> 
> If you have a nice-looking archive, or a raw email file missing from
> the list history, I'd be happy to send it up to arweave.
> 
> > https://buttdarling.insanejournal.com/129512.html?mode=reply
> >
> > That's a copy of the missing cypherpunks post from Hett.
> >
> > Now since when have you ever taken a positive interest in the core affairs
> > of this list?
> 
> I didn't know this was a core affair.
> 
> > You waddle like an agent and quack like one we might as well shoot you in
> > agent-shooting season.
> 
> I unfortunately and literally have severe dissociation with both
> pro-gov and pro-anarchist parts. I think this could be common among
> political targets.
> 
> > Get a life agent Semich.
> 
> I feel sad when reading this. I'm not sure what it means. I heard it a
> lot throughout grade school.

Re: Cypherpunk list subscriber "threatening" Feds

[Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many]

Thank you for your reply. I haven't fully processed it. I get the
impression that posting this is helpful in protecting things for you.
It certainly seems important if it is missing from records.

> Do you still have the link to the article?
>
> The Post no longer publishes it and the Hettinga repost has gone missing (
> Greg? )
> I don't link to Conde Nast's edited version at McCullagh's since he went
> over to the enemy in 2001.
>
> I can publish the entire article here if desired or alternatively direct the
> curious to my insane journal back-up at ' buttdarling ' .

If you have a nice-looking archive, or a raw email file missing from
the list history, I'd be happy to send it up to arweave.

> https://buttdarling.insanejournal.com/129512.html?mode=reply
>
> That's a copy of the missing cypherpunks post from Hett.
>
> Now since when have you ever taken a positive interest in the core affairs
> of this list?

I didn't know this was a core affair.

> You waddle like an agent and quack like one we might as well shoot you in
> agent-shooting season.

I unfortunately and literally have severe dissociation with both
pro-gov and pro-anarchist parts. I think this could be common among
political targets.

> Get a life agent Semich.

I feel sad when reading this. I'm not sure what it means. I heard it a
lot throughout grade school.

Re: Cypherpunk list subscriber "threatening" Feds

[Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many]

Hi professor rat,

It's familiar to see you posting this quote again.

I'm curious, why do you post it?

Do you still have the link to the article?

Re: Cypherpunk

[Undiscussed Past Horrific Abuse, One Victim Of Many]

On July 22, 2022 2:07:04 PM EDT, Gunnar Larson  wrote:
>While under entrapment, I have been told that being a Cypherpunk is a
>terriorist offense.

Gunnar, when you mention being under entrapment, do you mean you are 
experiencing pressure of some kind to either break laws or depict yourself as 
breaking laws? Or what do you mean?

>
>My reply concerning this matter has been noted as, "Just because you think
>the Tooth Ferry has Pink Hair does not mean there is a tooth ferry."
>
>It says nothing about terriorist activity on the Cypherpunk wiki:
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cypherpunk

My experience is that even officials can often describe things as illegal that 
are not. I was once told I was breaking a law for not carrying an ID.

Re: Cypherpunk Guild

[Steven Schear]

Instead of trying to get providers to pay get users to pay. That's what we
did in Mojo Nation (copied,  more or less, by FileCoin). Pay to play but
with token rewards.

On Wed, Dec 15, 2021, 3:29 AM  wrote:

> You might recall that I've proposed an alternate anonymization network,
> perhaps based on Raspberry Pi computers, analogous to TOR.
>
> It could be hosted by ordinary people, or small businesses.  Perhaps all
> outputs would be encrypted, at least enough so that everyone could act as
> an output node: even if monitored, there wouldn't be  any plaintext that
> could be understood.
>
> Other than the initial hardware cost, around $85 (?) per unit, there would
> be a continuing cost of about $50/month, based on a recent price from
> Centurylink for 100 megabits/second service .  I believe that includes an
> 'unlimited' data, which is probably necessary for a heavily-used system,
> especially if it is expected to include 'chaff', dummy-traffic. So, a cost
> of $50,000/month, or $600,000 per year.
>
> Perhaps the sponsors of the network would subsidize about half the cost of
> the Internet service:. After all, the host of the node gets to use it as
> well.
>
>   I think that there was a lot of discussion of anonymization, on the
> Cypherpunks list in the mid-1990's.  From remailers like penet.fi
> onwards.
>
> What could have prevented people, at least ordinary Cyberpunks, from
> building their own anonymization network?Did they have to make it
> illegal?  No.
>
> It turns out it was easy: GIVE THEM ONE!  For free!  Call it TOR.
> Somehow, that was enough.  For the cost if implementing TOR, they have
> somehow succeeded in preventing development and implementation of any
> alternative.
>
> It isn't as if there's no need.  Imagine a dark market that does a gross
> business of $1 billion/year.  They should be willing to finance a
> $600,000/year anonymization network. Or 0.06%.
>
> And there will likely be multiple 'customers' for the anonymization
> 'market', so the costs will be spread further.
>
>Jim Bell
>
>
>
> On Dec 14, 2021 4:44 AM, Steven Schear  wrote:
>
> My friends at the NEAR <
> https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/near-protocol/> Cypherpunk Guild <
> https://cypherpunkguild.org/> are keenly looking for cypherpunk-oriented
> development that, ideally, also promotes NEAR. Both grants and investments
> are possible.
>
> If you are a developer and have a cypherpunk project in mind or are
> already working on one, I recommend you join the discussion and introduce
> yourself via one of the methods recommended on their website.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> On Dec 14, 2021 4:44 AM, Steven Schear  wrote:
>
> My friends at the NEAR <
> https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/near-protocol/> Cypherpunk Guild <
> https://cypherpunkguild.org/> are keenly looking for cypherpunk-oriented
> development that, ideally, also promotes NEAR. Both grants and investments
> are possible.
>
> If you are a developer and have a cypherpunk project in mind or are
> already working on one, I recommend you join the discussion and introduce
> yourself via one of the methods recommended on their website.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> On Dec 14, 2021 4:44 AM, Steven Schear  wrote:
>
> My friends at the NEAR <
> https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/near-protocol/> Cypherpunk Guild <
> https://cypherpunkguild.org/> are keenly looking for cypherpunk-oriented
> development that, ideally, also promotes NEAR. Both grants and investments
> are possible.
>
> If you are a developer and have a cypherpunk project in mind or are
> already working on one, I recommend you join the discussion and introduce
> yourself via one of the methods recommended on their website.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> On Dec 14, 2021 4:44 AM, Steven Schear  wrote:
>
> My friends at the NEAR <
> https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/near-protocol/> Cypherpunk Guild <
> https://cypherpunkguild.org/> are keenly looking for cypherpunk-oriented
> development that, ideally, also promotes NEAR. Both grants and investments
> are possible.
>
> If you are a developer and have a cypherpunk project in mind or are
> already working on one, I recommend you join the discussion and introduce
> yourself via one of the methods recommended on their website.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> On Dec 14, 2021 4:44 AM, Steven Schear  wrote:
>
> My friends at the NEAR <
> https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/near-protocol/> Cypherpunk Guild <
> https://cypherpunkguild.org/> are keenly looking for cypherpunk-oriented
> development that, ideally, also promotes NEAR. Both grants and investments
> are possible.
>
> If you are a developer and have a cypherpunk project in mind or are
> already working on one, I recommend you join the discussion and introduce
> yourself via one of the methods recommended on their website.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> On Dec 14, 2021 4:44 AM, Steven Schear  wrote:
>
> My friends at the NEAR <
> https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/near-protocol/> Cypherpunk Guild <
> https://cypherpunkguild.org/> are keenly 

Re: Cypherpunk Guild

[Karl Semich]

I'm emailing this first because I don't always have good success with
communication.

A messaging system is needed with the following properties:
- sneakernet/airgapped cryptography
- immutable preservation of public discourse
- support/preference for anonymity
- integration with or expansion of one or more systems that are already
in-use, with one or more existing development and user communities
- peer to peer, disaster-ready
- cryptographic delivery (and/or read) receipts
- simple, clear reimplementable and third-party-maintainable design, making
heavy reuse of few basic parts

Although some of the above properties are common, some are very rare.  The
rare properties should be prioritised.

Re: Cypherpunk Guild

[Karl]

just noting existing non-tor projects such as i2p

great to see the network proposal again otherwise

Re: Cypherpunk Guild

[jdb10987]

You might recall that I've proposed an alternate anonymization network, perhaps based on Raspberry Pi computers, analogous to TOR.It could be hosted by ordinary people, or small businesses.  Perhaps all outputs would be encrypted, at least enough so that everyone could act as an output node: even if monitored, there wouldn't be  any plaintext that could be understood.Other than the initial hardware cost, around $85 (?) per unit, there would be a continuing cost of about $50/month, based on a recent price from Centurylink for 100 megabits/second service .  I believe that includes an 'unlimited' data, which is probably necessary for a heavily-used system, especially if it is expected to include 'chaff', dummy-traffic. So, a cost of $50,000/month, or $600,000 per year.Perhaps the sponsors of the network would subsidize about half the cost of the Internet service:. After all, the host of the node gets to use it as well.  I think that there was a lot of discussion of anonymization, on the Cypherpunks list in the mid-1990's.  From remailers like penet.fi onwards.  What could have prevented people, at least ordinary Cyberpunks, from building their own anonymization network?    Did they have to make it illegal?  No.It turns out it was easy: GIVE THEM ONE!  For free!  Call it TOR.  Somehow, that was enough.  For the cost if implementing TOR, they have somehow succeeded in preventing development and implementation of any alternative.It isn't as if there's no need.  Imagine a dark market that does a gross business of $1 billion/year.  They should be willing to finance a $600,000/year anonymization network. Or 0.06%.And there will likely be multiple 'customers' for the anonymization 'market', so the costs will be spread further.   Jim BellOn Dec 14, 2021 4:44 AM, Steven Schear  wrote:My friends at the NEAR  Cypherpunk Guild  are keenly looking for cypherpunk-oriented development that, ideally, also promotes NEAR. Both grants and investments are possible. If you are a developer and have a cypherpunk project in mind or are already working on one, I recommend you join the discussion and introduce yourself via one of the methods recommended on their website.  Steve
On Dec 14, 2021 4:44 AM, Steven Schear  wrote:My friends at the NEAR  Cypherpunk Guild  are keenly looking for cypherpunk-oriented development that, ideally, also promotes NEAR. Both grants and investments are possible. If you are a developer and have a cypherpunk project in mind or are already working on one, I recommend you join the discussion and introduce yourself via one of the methods recommended on their website.  Steve
On Dec 14, 2021 4:44 AM, Steven Schear  wrote:My friends at the NEAR  Cypherpunk Guild  are keenly looking for cypherpunk-oriented development that, ideally, also promotes NEAR. Both grants and investments are possible. If you are a developer and have a cypherpunk project in mind or are already working on one, I recommend you join the discussion and introduce yourself via one of the methods recommended on their website.  Steve
On Dec 14, 2021 4:44 AM, Steven Schear  wrote:My friends at the NEAR  Cypherpunk Guild  are keenly looking for cypherpunk-oriented development that, ideally, also promotes NEAR. Both grants and investments are possible. If you are a developer and have a cypherpunk project in mind or are already working on one, I recommend you join the discussion and introduce yourself via one of the methods recommended on their website.  Steve
On Dec 14, 2021 4:44 AM, Steven Schear  wrote:My friends at the NEAR  Cypherpunk Guild  are keenly looking for cypherpunk-oriented development that, ideally, also promotes NEAR. Both grants and investments are possible. If you are a developer and have a cypherpunk project in mind or are already working on one, I recommend you join the discussion and introduce yourself via one of the methods recommended on their website.  Steve
On Dec 14, 2021 4:44 AM, Steven Schear  wrote:My friends at the NEAR  Cypherpunk Guild  are keenly looking for cypherpunk-oriented development that, ideally, also promotes NEAR. Both grants and investments are possible. If you are a developer and have a cypherpunk project in mind or are already working on one, I recommend you join the discussion and introduce yourself via one of the methods recommended on their website.  Steve
On Dec 14, 2021 4:44 AM, Steven Schear  wrote:My friends at the NEAR  Cypherpunk Guild 

Re: Cypherpunk counter-revolutionary

[professor rat]

Gramps gibbered . . .  

" It is posited by some that Cryptome has resented not
getting the chosen scoop[s], and noticed by others that
Cryptome has deleted some infos that it has previously posted.
This is not to discredit the reasonable thought held by many
that Cryptome is interesting and meritable in its own right,
but to denote the many possible elements of the nature
of the overall game at large, of which one should surely
devote at least some study to become aware of.

"Truth", as they say, is derived from the "leaks" at hand.
To discern it, leak onward.  . . . "

There should be zero controversy now that Gramps is a counter-revolutionary. 

A capital crime.  Please join my deadpool on this scum and his BFF's Batshit & 
Semich. Tia.

Re: Cypherpunk counter-revolutionary

[grarpamp]

> John Young was not. In early January 2007 he decided that WikiLeaks was a
> CIA-backed fraud. “Fuck your cute hustle and disinformation campaign. Same
> old shit, working for the enemy … Fuck ’em all.”

It is posited by some that Cryptome has resented not
getting the chosen scoop[s], and noticed by others that
Cryptome has deleted some infos that it has previously posted.
This is not to discredit the reasonable thought held by many
that Cryptome is interesting and meritable in its own right,
but to denote the many possible elements of the nature
of the overall game at large, of which one should surely
devote at least some study to become aware of.

"Truth", as they say, is derived from the "leaks" at hand.
To discern it, leak onward.

Re: Cypherpunk revolution Vs the present military journalism system

[professor rat]

"... Makes sense that
pigshit shoveler Glenn Greenwald was the slop
poisoner, Pierre Omidyar the wallowing pigmaster. ..."

Like that time Omigod wrote he wanted to see ' 20 million mud-people ' killed 
and Glenin published it...oh wait...no, sorry...

That was Tim " Mongo ' May and his mincing little poodle, John " Cryptome " 
Young.

Re: Cypherpunk revolution Vs the present military journalism system

[professor rat]

Self-redacted ERIC Hughes ran like a rabbit and died like a deserter. Every 
coward should go out like that.

Right John?

Then what about that joke called GILMORE!

TSA activism so tepid it barely qualifies as liberal. 
This is how losers redact themselves.

Right John?  AMIRITE!?  " Circle of Eunuchs '  is not just some abstract thing 
dreamed up by CJ. 

Re: Cypherpunk revolution Vs the present military journalism system

[professor rat]

"... Had not considered that Tim May was literaturely
assassinated ..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO2JhUI-6cI

Here's mud in your eye then, John

Re: Cypherpunk revolution Vs the present military journalism system

[John Young]

Had not considered that Tim May was literaturely 
assassinated, or Eric Hughes and John Gilmore 
redacted, or Hal Finney erased, or the editing 
out of real James Dalton Bell and surreal Carl 
Edward Johnson and Phil Zimmermann and Julian 
Assange and Edward Snowden. Makes sense that 
pigshit shoveler Glenn Greenwald was the slop 
poisoner, Pierre Omidyar the wallowing pigmaster.


At 02:05 PM 7/6/2021, you wrote:
Tired of listening to conservative morons like 
Semich, Gramps, Batshit and David drone on about 
their endless conformist brown-nosing to power?


For Jim Bell, the more exciting question was: 
“How can we translate the freedom afforded by 
the Internet to ordinary life?”


I think that blockchains will replace armies for 
national defense, because a blockchain-based 
assassination market will be created…" Zach. CryyptoGo  Â

Â
To launch attacks under favorable circumstances 
is not only every anarchist revolutionary’s 
right, but their plain duty. The killing of 
spies, policemen, commissars, the blowing up of 
police stations, the liberation of prisoners, 
the seizure of government funds for the needs of 
the uprising—such operations are already being 
carried out wherever insurrectioon is rife.   Â


Cypherpunks collapse governments.
Subject: Everyone a remailer: Everyone a Mint: Everyone an assassin
https://marc.info/?l=cypherpunks=100872510706876=2
Strong-crypto, digital money, anonymous 
networks, pseudonyms, zero- knowledge proofs, 
reputations, information-markets, netwar, collapse-of-governments.

http://nakamotoinstitute.org/static/docs/cyphernomicon.txt

Marc responded, “indeed, free and open source 
software seems non-negotiable here: no 
backdoors, no skeleton key. National security 
establishment would balk at this though?”Â
Rohan responds, “yes, fuck them. I don’t 
think we should be taking policy advice about 
how to design our money for the people who think 
the Patriot Act was a good thing ..."Â  Â  Â  Â Â

https://www.coindesk.com/podcasts/coindesk-podcast-network/us-digital-dollar-protect-privacy

WHO wants to join the *LAST* revolution? The one 
to take down *ALL* the governments!  Anarchism 
is not lack of orders …its lack of *ORDERRS*


TIMOTHY " An anonymous computerized market will 
even make possible abhorrent markets for 
assassinations and extortion " C. MAY 1992


TIM " I guess now that the Pentagon is setting 
up a murder pool it can't be illegal for us to do it " MAY. 2003

Re: Cypherpunk University by JW Weatherman

[Michalis Kargakis]

He has no idea about economics and he is selling crap to his followers. By his 
own terms, he is a functional scammer.

 Original Message 
On Dec 8, 2018, 07:46, grarpamp wrote:

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbIPKm3inWU
> https://jwweatherman.com/class
> http://www.cypherpunku.com/index.php?threads/so-what-is-cypherpunk-university-about-heres-the-juicy-details.33/
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9OML5D8RMo
> https://archive.org/details/youtube-wrAtsQrs7dY
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xa87kudAVFs

Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[John Newman]

> On Sep 5, 2017, at 9:14 PM, Mirimir  wrote:
> 
>> On 09/05/2017 08:38 AM, Steve Kinney wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> On 09/05/2017 12:54 PM, John Newman wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
> On Sep 3, 2017, at 9:47 PM, Mirimir  wrote:
> 
> On 09/03/2017 12:05 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 09/02/2017 09:06 PM, grarpamp wrote:
>> A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed.
>> Less time hobbled on "psychedelics".
>> More time on "revolutin".
>> Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle.
>> Crypto rave, on.
>> 
>> 
 Reportedly good blotter has been available on SR etc.
 
>>> 
>>> On SR, then alphabay - excellent mdma also.
>>> 
>>> These services (well, their descendants) are obviously risky as fuck. 
>>> Better to source privately if possible.
>> 
>> Simple rule:  Cop only from people you know, and don't eat anything they
>> have not already.
> 
> That is of course prudent advice :)
> 
> However, it is possible to test unknowns safely enough. You start with
> an extremely low dose. Perhaps 1% of the purported normal dose. And then
> retest at higher dosages. A reasonable set of dosages might be 1%, 2%,
> 5%, 10%, 20%, 50% and 100%. Or more, if you like.
> 
> See PiHKAL and TiHKAL :) He started with untested compounds.
> 

There are also test kits, which can at least give you some idea
of what you've got ..

> Albert Hofmann did get gobsmacked, I admit. But it didn't kill him. I
> once inadvertently took a few milligrams of LSD. It was indeed intense,
> but no more than some DMT experiences. Did last a lot longer, though.
> 

Whoa! Sounds like the "thumbprint" trips I've heard tales of...

I've never gone more than a few hundred mics (a few hits 
of 150mic shit in 90s)... but I have sat with friends who took
mega-doses on more than a few occasions ;)




>> "Stoned on some new potion he found upon the wall of some unholy
>> bathroom in some ungodly hall" all too accurately describes people who
>> buy WTF-ever from darknet vendors.  Same shit, different decade.
>> 
>> :o/

Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[Marina Brown]

On 09/06/2017 12:13 AM, Mirimir wrote:
> On 09/05/2017 04:50 PM, Marina Brown wrote:
>> On 09/05/2017 10:39 PM, Mirimir wrote:
>>> On 09/05/2017 02:56 PM, Marina Brown wrote:
 On 09/05/2017 09:14 PM, Mirimir wrote:
> On 09/05/2017 08:38 AM, Steve Kinney wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 09/05/2017 12:54 PM, John Newman wrote:
>>>
>>>
 On Sep 3, 2017, at 9:47 PM, Mirimir  wrote:

> On 09/03/2017 12:05 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
>
>
>> On 09/02/2017 09:06 PM, grarpamp wrote:
>> A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed.
>> Less time hobbled on "psychedelics".
>> More time on "revolutin".
>> Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle.
>> Crypto rave, on.
>>
>>
 Reportedly good blotter has been available on SR etc.

>>>
>>> On SR, then alphabay - excellent mdma also.
>>>
>>> These services (well, their descendants) are obviously risky as fuck. 
>>> Better to source privately if possible.
>>
>> Simple rule:  Cop only from people you know, and don't eat anything they
>> have not already.
>
> That is of course prudent advice :)
>
> However, it is possible to test unknowns safely enough. You start with
> an extremely low dose. Perhaps 1% of the purported normal dose. And then
> retest at higher dosages. A reasonable set of dosages might be 1%, 2%,
> 5%, 10%, 20%, 50% and 100%. Or more, if you like.
>
> See PiHKAL and TiHKAL :) He started with untested compounds.
>
> Albert Hofmann did get gobsmacked, I admit. But it didn't kill him. I
> once inadvertently took a few milligrams of LSD. It was indeed intense,
> but no more than some DMT experiences. Did last a lot longer, though.
>

 Milligrams ? Are you sure you don't mean micrograms - a dose of LSD is
 ussually 10 micrograms. If you did take milligrams it would litterally
 have been a few hundred hits of acid. The most i have heard about people
 taking is 10 hits.
>>>
>>> Back in the day, the typical decent dose was ~250 micrograms. 4000 hits
>>> per gram was the gold standard. But of course, as a mid-level dealer,
>>> you never got crystalline LSD. You got a solution in absolute ethanol,
>>> in sealed glass break-neck ampules.
>>>
>>> So basically, I bought a quarter gram, and fucked up diluting the stuff,
>>> before making my test samples. So instead of 250 micrograms, I took a
>>> sample that nominally contained ~5 milligrams, or 20 doses. But
>>> fortunately, I corrected the error before anyone else tried it :)
>>>
>>> My typical dose was 500-1000 micrograms, so this was only 5-10 times
>>> normal. And my tolerance was probably pretty high, as well.
>>>
>>
>> I got the numbers wrong.
>>
>> I had a friend in college who had to take 10 hits just to get off.
>> He was a Cellist who loved to play heavy metal on his cello.
> 
> What a trip :)
> 
> Have you heard/seen Seemann,[0] by Apocalyptica with Nina Hagen? And
> then, there's Nina on acid on Letterman.[1]
> 
> 0) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAlVF7lYKL8
> 1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEGsTUY8YQo
> 
>> I guess not so bad. My longest trip was 3 days. On Jimson Weed.
> 
> Yeah. I tried smoking that once, but nothing. So it goes.
> 

If you want a trip you don't smoke it but it is VERY dangerous.
Definitly an ordeal.

--- Marina


>> "Stoned on some new potion he found upon the wall of some unholy
>> bathroom in some ungodly hall" all too accurately describes people who
>> buy WTF-ever from darknet vendors.  Same shit, different decade.
>>
>> :o/
>


>>>
>>
>>
> 

Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[Mirimir]

On 09/05/2017 04:50 PM, Marina Brown wrote:
> On 09/05/2017 10:39 PM, Mirimir wrote:
>> On 09/05/2017 02:56 PM, Marina Brown wrote:
>>> On 09/05/2017 09:14 PM, Mirimir wrote:
 On 09/05/2017 08:38 AM, Steve Kinney wrote:
>
>
> On 09/05/2017 12:54 PM, John Newman wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On Sep 3, 2017, at 9:47 PM, Mirimir  wrote:
>>>
 On 09/03/2017 12:05 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:


> On 09/02/2017 09:06 PM, grarpamp wrote:
> A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed.
> Less time hobbled on "psychedelics".
> More time on "revolutin".
> Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle.
> Crypto rave, on.
>
>
>>> Reportedly good blotter has been available on SR etc.
>>>
>>
>> On SR, then alphabay - excellent mdma also.
>>
>> These services (well, their descendants) are obviously risky as fuck. 
>> Better to source privately if possible.
>
> Simple rule:  Cop only from people you know, and don't eat anything they
> have not already.

 That is of course prudent advice :)

 However, it is possible to test unknowns safely enough. You start with
 an extremely low dose. Perhaps 1% of the purported normal dose. And then
 retest at higher dosages. A reasonable set of dosages might be 1%, 2%,
 5%, 10%, 20%, 50% and 100%. Or more, if you like.

 See PiHKAL and TiHKAL :) He started with untested compounds.

 Albert Hofmann did get gobsmacked, I admit. But it didn't kill him. I
 once inadvertently took a few milligrams of LSD. It was indeed intense,
 but no more than some DMT experiences. Did last a lot longer, though.

>>>
>>> Milligrams ? Are you sure you don't mean micrograms - a dose of LSD is
>>> ussually 10 micrograms. If you did take milligrams it would litterally
>>> have been a few hundred hits of acid. The most i have heard about people
>>> taking is 10 hits.
>>
>> Back in the day, the typical decent dose was ~250 micrograms. 4000 hits
>> per gram was the gold standard. But of course, as a mid-level dealer,
>> you never got crystalline LSD. You got a solution in absolute ethanol,
>> in sealed glass break-neck ampules.
>>
>> So basically, I bought a quarter gram, and fucked up diluting the stuff,
>> before making my test samples. So instead of 250 micrograms, I took a
>> sample that nominally contained ~5 milligrams, or 20 doses. But
>> fortunately, I corrected the error before anyone else tried it :)
>>
>> My typical dose was 500-1000 micrograms, so this was only 5-10 times
>> normal. And my tolerance was probably pretty high, as well.
>>
> 
> I got the numbers wrong.
> 
> I had a friend in college who had to take 10 hits just to get off.
> He was a Cellist who loved to play heavy metal on his cello.

What a trip :)

Have you heard/seen Seemann,[0] by Apocalyptica with Nina Hagen? And
then, there's Nina on acid on Letterman.[1]

0) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAlVF7lYKL8
1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEGsTUY8YQo

> I guess not so bad. My longest trip was 3 days. On Jimson Weed.

Yeah. I tried smoking that once, but nothing. So it goes.

> "Stoned on some new potion he found upon the wall of some unholy
> bathroom in some ungodly hall" all too accurately describes people who
> buy WTF-ever from darknet vendors.  Same shit, different decade.
>
> :o/

>>>
>>>
>>
> 
> 

Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[Marina Brown]

On 09/05/2017 10:39 PM, Mirimir wrote:
> On 09/05/2017 02:56 PM, Marina Brown wrote:
>> On 09/05/2017 09:14 PM, Mirimir wrote:
>>> On 09/05/2017 08:38 AM, Steve Kinney wrote:


 On 09/05/2017 12:54 PM, John Newman wrote:
>
>
>> On Sep 3, 2017, at 9:47 PM, Mirimir  wrote:
>>
>>> On 09/03/2017 12:05 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
>>>
>>>
 On 09/02/2017 09:06 PM, grarpamp wrote:
 A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed.
 Less time hobbled on "psychedelics".
 More time on "revolutin".
 Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle.
 Crypto rave, on.


>> Reportedly good blotter has been available on SR etc.
>>
>
> On SR, then alphabay - excellent mdma also.
>
> These services (well, their descendants) are obviously risky as fuck. 
> Better to source privately if possible.

 Simple rule:  Cop only from people you know, and don't eat anything they
 have not already.
>>>
>>> That is of course prudent advice :)
>>>
>>> However, it is possible to test unknowns safely enough. You start with
>>> an extremely low dose. Perhaps 1% of the purported normal dose. And then
>>> retest at higher dosages. A reasonable set of dosages might be 1%, 2%,
>>> 5%, 10%, 20%, 50% and 100%. Or more, if you like.
>>>
>>> See PiHKAL and TiHKAL :) He started with untested compounds.
>>>
>>> Albert Hofmann did get gobsmacked, I admit. But it didn't kill him. I
>>> once inadvertently took a few milligrams of LSD. It was indeed intense,
>>> but no more than some DMT experiences. Did last a lot longer, though.
>>>
>>
>> Milligrams ? Are you sure you don't mean micrograms - a dose of LSD is
>> ussually 10 micrograms. If you did take milligrams it would litterally
>> have been a few hundred hits of acid. The most i have heard about people
>> taking is 10 hits.
> 
> Back in the day, the typical decent dose was ~250 micrograms. 4000 hits
> per gram was the gold standard. But of course, as a mid-level dealer,
> you never got crystalline LSD. You got a solution in absolute ethanol,
> in sealed glass break-neck ampules.
> 
> So basically, I bought a quarter gram, and fucked up diluting the stuff,
> before making my test samples. So instead of 250 micrograms, I took a
> sample that nominally contained ~5 milligrams, or 20 doses. But
> fortunately, I corrected the error before anyone else tried it :)
> 
> My typical dose was 500-1000 micrograms, so this was only 5-10 times
> normal. And my tolerance was probably pretty high, as well.
> 

I got the numbers wrong.

I had a friend in college who had to take 10 hits just to get off.
He was a Cellist who loved to play heavy metal on his cello.

I guess not so bad. My longest trip was 3 days. On Jimson Weed.

 "Stoned on some new potion he found upon the wall of some unholy
 bathroom in some ungodly hall" all too accurately describes people who
 buy WTF-ever from darknet vendors.  Same shit, different decade.

 :o/
>>>
>>
>>
> 

Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[Mirimir]

On 09/05/2017 02:56 PM, Marina Brown wrote:
> On 09/05/2017 09:14 PM, Mirimir wrote:
>> On 09/05/2017 08:38 AM, Steve Kinney wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 09/05/2017 12:54 PM, John Newman wrote:


> On Sep 3, 2017, at 9:47 PM, Mirimir  wrote:
>
>> On 09/03/2017 12:05 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On 09/02/2017 09:06 PM, grarpamp wrote:
>>> A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed.
>>> Less time hobbled on "psychedelics".
>>> More time on "revolutin".
>>> Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle.
>>> Crypto rave, on.
>>>
>>>
> Reportedly good blotter has been available on SR etc.
>

 On SR, then alphabay - excellent mdma also.

 These services (well, their descendants) are obviously risky as fuck. 
 Better to source privately if possible.
>>>
>>> Simple rule:  Cop only from people you know, and don't eat anything they
>>> have not already.
>>
>> That is of course prudent advice :)
>>
>> However, it is possible to test unknowns safely enough. You start with
>> an extremely low dose. Perhaps 1% of the purported normal dose. And then
>> retest at higher dosages. A reasonable set of dosages might be 1%, 2%,
>> 5%, 10%, 20%, 50% and 100%. Or more, if you like.
>>
>> See PiHKAL and TiHKAL :) He started with untested compounds.
>>
>> Albert Hofmann did get gobsmacked, I admit. But it didn't kill him. I
>> once inadvertently took a few milligrams of LSD. It was indeed intense,
>> but no more than some DMT experiences. Did last a lot longer, though.
>>
> 
> Milligrams ? Are you sure you don't mean micrograms - a dose of LSD is
> ussually 10 micrograms. If you did take milligrams it would litterally
> have been a few hundred hits of acid. The most i have heard about people
> taking is 10 hits.

Back in the day, the typical decent dose was ~250 micrograms. 4000 hits
per gram was the gold standard. But of course, as a mid-level dealer,
you never got crystalline LSD. You got a solution in absolute ethanol,
in sealed glass break-neck ampules.

So basically, I bought a quarter gram, and fucked up diluting the stuff,
before making my test samples. So instead of 250 micrograms, I took a
sample that nominally contained ~5 milligrams, or 20 doses. But
fortunately, I corrected the error before anyone else tried it :)

My typical dose was 500-1000 micrograms, so this was only 5-10 times
normal. And my tolerance was probably pretty high, as well.

>>> "Stoned on some new potion he found upon the wall of some unholy
>>> bathroom in some ungodly hall" all too accurately describes people who
>>> buy WTF-ever from darknet vendors.  Same shit, different decade.
>>>
>>> :o/
>>
> 
> 

Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[Steve Kinney]

On 09/05/2017 12:54 PM, John Newman wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Sep 3, 2017, at 9:47 PM, Mirimir  wrote:
>>
>>> On 09/03/2017 12:05 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
>>>
>>>
 On 09/02/2017 09:06 PM, grarpamp wrote:
 A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed.
 Less time hobbled on "psychedelics".
 More time on "revolutin".
 Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle.
 Crypto rave, on.


>> Reportedly good blotter has been available on SR etc.
>>
> 
> On SR, then alphabay - excellent mdma also.
> 
> These services (well, their descendants) are obviously risky as fuck. 
> Better to source privately if possible.

Simple rule:  Cop only from people you know, and don't eat anything they
have not already.

"Stoned on some new potion he found upon the wall of some unholy
bathroom in some ungodly hall" all too accurately describes people who
buy WTF-ever from darknet vendors.  Same shit, different decade.

:o/









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Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[John Newman]

> On Sep 3, 2017, at 9:47 PM, Mirimir  wrote:
> 
>> On 09/03/2017 12:05 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> On 09/02/2017 09:06 PM, grarpamp wrote:
>>> A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed.
>>> Less time hobbled on "psychedelics".
>>> More time on "revolutin".
>>> Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle.
>>> Crypto rave, on.
>> 
>> As an unwitting participant in either one of the last MKULTRA era
>> experiments, or an independent M.D.'s "good deed for the day," I have a
>> special relationship with LSD:  I got microdosed twice a week for six
>> weeks in 1972, and that experience went a long way toward making me
>> whatever the fuck I am today.  A few years later I thought I was taking
>> LSD for the first time... but then came the "Hello old friend!" moment.
> 
> Woah. So do you remember, back in 1972, what you thought was happening?
> 
> And yes, that acid come on is unmistakable ;)
> 
>> Never underestimate the power of the psychedelics:  Our de facto masters
>> don't, and that is why LSD is on the very short list of illegal drugs
>> not readily available to anyone who goes looking.  Everybody who's hip
>> to the jive /says/ they can get acid, but ask if it's real and they look
>> at their shoes and mumble. ...
> 
> Reportedly good blotter has been available on SR etc.
> 

On SR, then alphabay - excellent mdma also.

These services (well, their descendants) are obviously risky as fuck. 
Better to source privately if possible.

> I still have some from the 80s. I sealed lots of blotter in evacuated
> glass ampules. It's been frozen since, at -20°C or less. On dry ice when
> I've moved. I last tried some about ten years ago, and it was fine.
> 
> 

Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[Razer]

On 09/04/2017 01:06 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
>
> On 09/04/2017 11:00 AM, Razer wrote:
>>
>> On 09/03/2017 04:34 PM, jim bell wrote:
>>> BZ (Quinuclidinyl Benzilate) is far easier to make than LSD, a dose
>>> typically 2 milligram compared to LSD's 200 microgram.   I've read
>>> that the 'trip' lasts 3 days.  
>>
>> ... says someone who never took STP. A 3 day peak and a total burn out.
>> BZ was intended to be an INCAPACITATING AGENT, not a psychotropic.
>> Everyone knew that by 1968 and very few people actually ever used it.
>>
>> Rr
> Surveys of the literature have found no descriptions of "bad trips"
> resulting from administration of LSD 


STP was a whole 'nother thing. The 'trip' was described somewhere (I
think Abbie Hoffman in Revolution for the Hell of It) as 'long and
juiceless' ...


> in a clinical setting, which
> included subjects with diagnosed mental illnesses, and studies using
> very large doses.  The classic "bad trip" first appeared in the wild
> right on time to support the Federally sponsored full-saturation
> domestic propaganda campaign against LSD.
>
> Did the CIA murder Art Linkletter's daughter?  Maybe not her in
> particular, on purpose.  But whoever made the alleged "LSD" she took
> before diving out of a high window did. and her suicide was a huge
> stroke of luck for the folks tasked to sell the public on a completely
> false version of what LSD is and does.
>
>> Ps. I have problems with MDMA as an 'analogue' to LSD. MDMA is
>> methamphetamine based and although it exhibits certain
>> psychedeic-experience-like properties, it's still Meth, and the long
>> term effect of it's use, if not as dramatic (usually), IS similar.
> When hearings were held to determine what schedule to put MDMA on,
> clinical researchers who testified described it was uniquely useful;
> they found it got stubbornly uncommunicative patients talking, and
> enabled therapists to build useful rapport with them very quickly.
> Their verdict was unanimous:  This is Good Shit, we wants it yes we
> does.  Then the DEA guise gave their testimony, mostly a recitation of
> War On Drugs propaganda talking points originally created for LSD, and
> so MDMA was put on Schedule I.

It's METHAMPHETAMINE, which also has clinical uses. Raving till you chew
thru your pacifier and drop from dehydration isn't 'clinical'. Just sayin'.

I knew the people who distrubuted MDA on the East Coast in the 60s and
MDA had the same deleterious effects from long term usage. AFAICT LSD
had no effects that would be noted by psychologists or behavioral
therapists as 'deleterious'.

By 1969 or 1970, or 71, or so, most of what was passed off as LSD was
either ALD-52 or MDA, or some other designer drug. When LSD became
illegal in the US not only did the feds immediately clamp down on all
the organic resources such as Ergotamine Tartrate, indole, and other
items necessary for LSD production (A special # Sylvania blue bulb was
necessary at one point in it's manufacture. IMAGINE what would happen if
a lighting house received an oddball order for a few), as was noted at
the time in the underground newspapers, many of the supply houses WERE
THE FEDS, and they used the mailing lists quite effectively to shut down
labs.

You might want to listen to this... From one of Owsley's close personal
friends, on his passing.

March 15 2011 Travus T. Hipp Morning News & Commentary: Owsley, The Man
Who 'Changed The Minds' Of An Entire Generation... Literally... Passes
https://archive.org/details/tth_110315

Owsley wasn't a chemist you know... He was a speedfreak. His GF was an
organic chemist, and as is so succinctly pointed out here, what made
Owsley the 'name you could trust' in LSD, was he actually tried the shit
before he sold it. Most of what was passed off as L was made by scumbags
not far removed from the Mafia (Brotherhood of Eternal Light at their
former missile silo in was it Nebraska?). The Mafia LUVS chemicals. Easy
to transport unlike bulky stinky weed, and the one thing I noted in my
experience in NY, when ever you got around L dealers, you started seeing
guns, and people who looked A LOT like feds.


>
> MDMA has been described as an "empathogen," knocking down social anxiety
> and replacing it, temporarily, with trust, confidence, and a (transient)
> sense of strong social bonding with "just whoever happens to be there."


As you described it, "empathogen,", it has certain SPECIFIC effects,
just like every other ordinary pharmaceutical, and just because you feel
all lovey dovey DOES NOT NOR HAS IT EVER MEANT, you 'explored your inner
space'. The phrase "Adjunct to Psychotherapy" come to mind. Tripping
with a bunch of people who are just like wow I love you groovy then they
go back to my day job slicing throats at some corporate hack job or
another, doesn't, and WHERE IS THE "GUIDANCE"? It's the hedonists
leading the hedonists down the rosy path to... I dunno. Running into a
fire at "burning man" or some stupid thing like that.

> I speculate 

Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[Steve Kinney]

On 09/04/2017 11:00 AM, Razer wrote:
> 
> 
> On 09/03/2017 04:34 PM, jim bell wrote:
>>
>> BZ (Quinuclidinyl Benzilate) is far easier to make than LSD, a dose
>> typically 2 milligram compared to LSD's 200 microgram.   I've read
>> that the 'trip' lasts 3 days.  
> 
> 
> ... says someone who never took STP. A 3 day peak and a total burn out.
> BZ was intended to be an INCAPACITATING AGENT, not a psychotropic.
> Everyone knew that by 1968 and very few people actually ever used it.
> 
> Rr

Surveys of the literature have found no descriptions of "bad trips"
resulting from administration of LSD in a clinical setting, which
included subjects with diagnosed mental illnesses, and studies using
very large doses.  The classic "bad trip" first appeared in the wild
right on time to support the Federally sponsored full-saturation
domestic propaganda campaign against LSD.

Did the CIA murder Art Linkletter's daughter?  Maybe not her in
particular, on purpose.  But whoever made the alleged "LSD" she took
before diving out of a high window did. and her suicide was a huge
stroke of luck for the folks tasked to sell the public on a completely
false version of what LSD is and does.

> Ps. I have problems with MDMA as an 'analogue' to LSD. MDMA is
> methamphetamine based and although it exhibits certain
> psychedeic-experience-like properties, it's still Meth, and the long
> term effect of it's use, if not as dramatic (usually), IS similar.

When hearings were held to determine what schedule to put MDMA on,
clinical researchers who testified described it was uniquely useful;
they found it got stubbornly uncommunicative patients talking, and
enabled therapists to build useful rapport with them very quickly.
Their verdict was unanimous:  This is Good Shit, we wants it yes we
does.  Then the DEA guise gave their testimony, mostly a recitation of
War On Drugs propaganda talking points originally created for LSD, and
so MDMA was put on Schedule I.

MDMA has been described as an "empathogen," knocking down social anxiety
and replacing it, temporarily, with trust, confidence, and a (transient)
sense of strong social bonding with "just whoever happens to be there."
I speculate that the Feds chose to suppress MDMA both because of
unwanted macro scale social impacts, and because its obvious
intelligence tradecraft applications (elicitation of information, agent
development & recruitment) do not belong in "private" hands.

Today's "ecstasy" a.k.a. X contains no MDMA but typically does contain
amphetamine, heroin, and one or more "designer" drugs to tweak the
experience this way or that.  Mixing that crap with alcohol can knock a
person right down (this I have seen in real life) and respiratory arrest
sometimes follows.

:o/








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Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[Razer]

On 09/03/2017 04:34 PM, jim bell wrote:
>
> BZ (Quinuclidinyl Benzilate) is far easier to make than LSD, a dose
> typically 2 milligram compared to LSD's 200 microgram.   I've read
> that the 'trip' lasts 3 days.  


... says someone who never took STP. A 3 day peak and a total burn out.
BZ was intended to be an INCAPACITATING AGENT, not a psychotropic.
Everyone knew that by 1968 and very few people actually ever used it.

Rr

Ps. I have problems with MDMA as an 'analogue' to LSD. MDMA is
methamphetamine based and although it exhibits certain
psychedeic-experience-like properties, it's still Meth, and the long
term effect of it's use, if not as dramatic (usually), IS similar.

Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[Steve Kinney]

On 09/03/2017 09:47 PM, Mirimir wrote:
> On 09/03/2017 12:05 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 09/02/2017 09:06 PM, grarpamp wrote:
>>> A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed.
>>> Less time hobbled on "psychedelics".
>>> More time on "revolutin".
>>> Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle.
>>> Crypto rave, on.
>>
>> As an unwitting participant in either one of the last MKULTRA era
>> experiments, or an independent M.D.'s "good deed for the day," I have a
>> special relationship with LSD:  I got microdosed twice a week for six
>> weeks in 1972, and that experience went a long way toward making me
>> whatever the fuck I am today.  A few years later I thought I was taking
>> LSD for the first time... but then came the "Hello old friend!" moment.
> 
> Woah. So do you remember, back in 1972, what you thought was happening?
> 
> And yes, that acid come on is unmistakable ;)

I was told at the time that the medication in question contained a
"stimulant" and that it might make me feel "funny," but not to worry
about it, it would wear off in a few hours and I would eventually get
used to it.

I did not so much get used to it, as start really looking forward to it.
 When the second batch arrived, click, nothing.  No effect.

Along about that time I started to question literally everything,
including the nature of reality itself.  I can't say the experience
affected my core values - for instance I was already dead set against
war, regardless of excuses offered, and got in trouble from time to time
for not bothering to observe "color lines" on the playground etc.  But I
suspect the LSD did have a radicalizing effect, in the literal sense of
that word:  It directed my attention to the fundamentals that define a
person's life and the structure of events in the larger world.






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Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Sun, Sep 03, 2017 at 03:34:24PM -1100, Mirimir wrote:
> On 09/03/2017 03:19 PM, grarpamp wrote:
> > On Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 9:47 PM, Mirimir  wrote:
> >> Reportedly good blotter has been available on SR etc.
> > 
> > Though not as popular a poison, there always seem to be
> > a small number of well regarded vendors in such markets.
> > A little disposable crypto cash and a maildrop is all it takes
> > to run your own tests.
> 
> Yes. I recall a few blog posts about such tests :)

O M G, you guys are humans doing things humans tend to do ?!?

Naughty naughty!

Re: Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Sun, Sep 03, 2017 at 11:34:01PM +, jim bell wrote:
>  On Sunday, September 3, 2017, 4:07:00 PM PDT, Steve Kinney 
>  wrote:
>  
> 
> On 09/02/2017 09:06 PM, grarpamp wrote:
> > A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed.
> > Less time hobbled on "psychedelics".
> > More time on "revolutin".
> > Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle.
> > Crypto rave, on.
> 
> >As an unwitting participant in either one of the last MKULTRA era
> experiments, or an independent M.D.'s "good deed for the day," I have a
> special relationship with LSD:  I got microdosed twice a week for six
> weeks in 1972, and that experience went a long way toward making me
> whatever the fuck I am today.  A few years later I thought I was taking
> LSD for the first time... but then came the "Hello old friend!" moment.[end 
> of quote]
> 
> 
> Check out the movie "Jacob's Ladder",   
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJztRnDxdM8     Movie trailer.
> http://pages.uoregon.edu/munno/OregonCourses/REL253F12/REL253Notes/BZStory.htm
> 
> 
> BZ (Quinuclidinyl Benzilate) is far easier to make than LSD, a dose typically 
> 2 milligram compared to LSD's 200 microgram.   I've read that the 'trip' 
> lasts 3 days.  
> The US Military experimented with BZ in the 1950's, in a project called 
> "Operation Blue Skies". 
> http://pages.uoregon.edu/munno/OregonCourses/REL253F12/REL253Notes/BZStory.htm
> 
> 
>                Jim Bell
> [For some reason, this idiot Yahoo mail client isn't letting me convert these 
> URL's into clickable links.]

WHAOH, DUDE! I can read your emails :D :)

Those couple blank lines really work - thanks for that, really
appreciated :)

(And BTW, at least in my MUA, I can click plain links no worries -
straight up in $BROWSER_OF_CHOICE - some X terminals are rather
featureful.)

Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[Mirimir]

On 09/03/2017 03:19 PM, grarpamp wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 9:47 PM, Mirimir  wrote:
>> Reportedly good blotter has been available on SR etc.
> 
> Though not as popular a poison, there always seem to be
> a small number of well regarded vendors in such markets.
> A little disposable crypto cash and a maildrop is all it takes
> to run your own tests.

Yes. I recall a few blog posts about such tests :)

Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[grarpamp]

On Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 9:47 PM, Mirimir  wrote:
> Reportedly good blotter has been available on SR etc.

Though not as popular a poison, there always seem to be
a small number of well regarded vendors in such markets.
A little disposable crypto cash and a maildrop is all it takes
to run your own tests.

Re: Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[jim bell]

 On Sunday, September 3, 2017, 4:07:00 PM PDT, Steve Kinney 
 wrote:
 

On 09/02/2017 09:06 PM, grarpamp wrote:
> A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed.
> Less time hobbled on "psychedelics".
> More time on "revolutin".
> Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle.
> Crypto rave, on.

>As an unwitting participant in either one of the last MKULTRA era
experiments, or an independent M.D.'s "good deed for the day," I have a
special relationship with LSD:  I got microdosed twice a week for six
weeks in 1972, and that experience went a long way toward making me
whatever the fuck I am today.  A few years later I thought I was taking
LSD for the first time... but then came the "Hello old friend!" moment.[end of 
quote]


Check out the movie "Jacob's Ladder",   
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJztRnDxdM8     Movie trailer.
http://pages.uoregon.edu/munno/OregonCourses/REL253F12/REL253Notes/BZStory.htm


BZ (Quinuclidinyl Benzilate) is far easier to make than LSD, a dose typically 2 
milligram compared to LSD's 200 microgram.   I've read that the 'trip' lasts 3 
days.  
The US Military experimented with BZ in the 1950's, in a project called 
"Operation Blue Skies". 
http://pages.uoregon.edu/munno/OregonCourses/REL253F12/REL253Notes/BZStory.htm


               Jim Bell
[For some reason, this idiot Yahoo mail client isn't letting me convert these 
URL's into clickable links.]


  

Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[Steve Kinney]

On 09/02/2017 09:06 PM, grarpamp wrote:
> A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed.
> Less time hobbled on "psychedelics".
> More time on "revolutin".
> Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle.
> Crypto rave, on.

As an unwitting participant in either one of the last MKULTRA era
experiments, or an independent M.D.'s "good deed for the day," I have a
special relationship with LSD:  I got microdosed twice a week for six
weeks in 1972, and that experience went a long way toward making me
whatever the fuck I am today.  A few years later I thought I was taking
LSD for the first time... but then came the "Hello old friend!" moment.

Never underestimate the power of the psychedelics:  Our de facto masters
don't, and that is why LSD is on the very short list of illegal drugs
not readily available to anyone who goes looking.  Everybody who's hip
to the jive /says/ they can get acid, but ask if it's real and they look
at their shoes and mumble.  MDMA is the only other example that comes to
mind at the moment, and it is seriously prohibited for the same reasons
as LSD:  Its effect on the individual users' cognitive and emotional
development, and potential aggregate impact on social and political
norms, is Not Wanted:  Better every American who is willing and able
should be using heroin - which BTW is typically included in the fake
MDMA that is readily available everywhere in the U.S.

Once upon a time, a misplaced decimal point in a report received by the
CIA made it appear that the Soviet researchers had ordered hundreds of
thousands of doses of LSD from its sole source, Sandoz.  Nobody at CIA
had heard of LSD, but the literature indicated that it was believed to
have unique potentials for research and therapeutic purposes.  This made
the huge order from Russia look very significant.  The propaganda meme
of "Communist Brainwashing" was still current as an explanation for U.S.
prisoners in North Korea confessing to war crimes.  In a strange example
of blowback, this myth prompted the CIA to attempt to duplicate
"brainwashing" themselves.

In the 1950s, LSD was being studied by psychiatrists and psychologists
who believed it could produce breakthroughs in treatment of intractable
mental illnesses.  Russia's supposedly HUGE order for LSD made it appear
that they had found a very important practical application for it, maybe
even as a tool for "brainwashing."  So the CIA cut a deal with Sandoz:
They placed an even larger order themselves, as part of an agreement
that Sandoz would sell exclusively to the CIA.

This is how the MKULTRA we know and love was born.  The spooks were up
to their ears in acid and had no idea what it was for, so they started
giving LSD to a broad cross section of people in various situations just
to see what would happen, and unleashed all the Mad Scientists they
could interest in the subject with carte blanche to do whatever it took
to find out what LSD does and how to weaponize it.

It turned out that the only significant military application for LSD was
as a disabling agent producing temporary confusion, disorientation and
loss of focus on structured tasks.  Pharmacological research beginning
with the study of LSD eventually yielded a family of nerve agents that
produce instant, persistent paranoid psychosis: BZ, DZ and others which
are still in the inventories of various services.

Academics employed by the MKULTRA program through front organizations
included Tim Leary and Richard Alpert, who did the now classic studies
defining the "psychedelic effect."  Long story short, the LSD experience
can permanently affect a person's subjective frame of reference, moving
it in the direction of empathy, compassion and creativity.  Worst of
all, from an intelligence service viewpoint, LSD can cause indoctrinated
neurotic complexes to collapse "of their own accord."

So LSD turned out to be worse than useless to the CIA:  The psychedelic
effect works directly against the mission profile loosely described as
"brainwashing," at every scale from individual targets to whole national
populations.  By the mid-1960s a decision was taken to actively suppress
the use of LSD, and soon after batches of LSD poisoned with nerve agents
similar to those mentioned above made their way into underground supply
chains.  The full spectrum of domestic propaganda assets were engaged to
assure the successful demonization of LSD.  The last time I checked,
simple possession of LSD was a Federal felony carrying a minimum
mandatory 10 year prison sentence.

One should not over-estimate the beneficial impacts of LSD:  It is no
panacea.  Users whose "set and setting" for the LSD experience is
escapist thrill-seeking usually realize little or no measurable benefit,
no matter how much they use or how often.  But in the hands of people
already committed to self examination - or so oriented by structured
activities such as religious services or psychotherapy while "tripping"
- LSD works like dynamite:  It clears 

Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[No]

https://libcom.org/library/poverty-hip-life

A pro-situ critique of "hippie" life written by Contradiction in April
1972.

Best critique I've read so far on the 60's hippie culture.


On 09/03/2017 04:04 AM, grarpamp wrote:
> Hobbled is distinctly descriptive.
> If one gets up and acts, even if in limited time luminary fashion,
> that's less than abjectly hobbled.
> Now, out... to ride me high horse in plainly hobbled fashion ;)
> Didn't Paul Revere ride horses... them effin rebels.

Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[grarpamp]

Hobbled is distinctly descriptive.
If one gets up and acts, even if in limited time luminary fashion,
that's less than abjectly hobbled.
Now, out... to ride me high horse in plainly hobbled fashion ;)
Didn't Paul Revere ride horses... them effin rebels.

Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[Mirimir]

On 09/02/2017 10:12 AM, Razer wrote:
> 
> 
> On 09/02/2017 12:41 AM, grarpamp wrote (b/c the original poster is shitcanned 
> at 
> the server):
>>> \0xd:
>>> Yeah, humans are both the cause and the cure.  The major source of
>>> inadequacy in THIS population (crypto-anarchists) is the failure to
>>> examine why the 60's failed to produce the revolution it desired.  It
>>> had love, peace, and an awesome soundtrack -- yet it failed.
> 
> 
> What makes this troll think the 60s failed to produce it's revolution?
> 
> 'Any time you walk into a store and see something advertised as "Psychedelic" 
> YOU KNOW the 60s had an effect on America.' ~Frank Zappa (paraphrased)

Well, the US did bail on Viet Nam. And casual fucking did become far
more popular. And food coops went mainstream. And homosexuality became
acceptable. And marijuana is legal in several states. And damn, are the
Dead still touring? Or some offshoot/residue, at least?

> The troll is operating under the assumption it was going to be a COMMIE 
> ree-vol-lewshun or sumpthin'.

Soviet efforts aside, hippies were mostly into sex, drugs and music :)

> Speaking of the 60s, Commie Ree-vol-lewshuns, etc...
> 
> Weather Underground Members Speak Out on the Media, Imperialism and 
> Solidarity 
> in the Age of Trump
> 
> Interviews By Dahr Jamail August 30 2017, TruthOut: 
> http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/41746-weather-underground-speak-out-on-the-media-imperialism-and-solidarity-in-the-age-of-trump
> 
> It ain't over till the fat pig squeals...
> 
> One like this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Photo: Czechago pig takes an swing at a NY TImes photog. Democratic 
> Convention 1968

Hey, Trump = Pigasus ;) That always was slaughterhouse humor.

>> 60s quite possibly...
>> Too much drugs, violence, disorganization...
>> And unencrypted tappable mail, phone, bank lines...
> 

Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[grarpamp]

A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed.
Less time hobbled on "psychedelics".
More time on "revolutin".
Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle.
Crypto rave, on.

Another old message against moderation (Fwd: Re: Cypherpunk Manifesto)

[Cecilia Tanaka]

-- Forwarded message --
From: "Cecilia Tanaka" <cecilia.tan...@gmail.com>
Date: Sep 6, 2016 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: Cypherpunk Manifesto
To: "cypherpunks@lists.cpunks.org" <cypherpunks@lists.cpunks.org>

Yep, Bastiani is right.  Lots and lots of times harder.  And, even this
way, will be a complete waste of the time.  Yours and ours.

This list never will be moderated because of whining babies.  Please, try a
pacifier or a baby bottle to calm yourself when you feel like a crying
baby, needy, wanting a bit of attention.

On Sep 6, 2016 8:57 AM, "Bastiani Fortress" <bastianifortr...@yandex.com>
wrote:
>
> You need to try harder if you're trying to provoke moderation in the list.
>
> 2:15 PM, September 6, 2016, Timmay <tim...@sigaint.org>:
>
>> On Tue, Sep 06, 2016 at 06:02:56AM -, Timmay wrote:
>>
>>>  Anything goes.
>>>
>>>  Fuckers.
>>
>> Fuck you and you're anarchist ways! We gonna censor this list NOW!

Re: Cypherpunk Manifesto

[Bastiani Fortress]

You need to try harder if you're trying to provoke moderation in the list.2:15 PM, September 6, 2016, Timmay :On Tue, Sep 06, 2016 at 06:02:56AM -, Timmay wrote: Anything goes. Fuckers.Fuck you and you're anarchist ways! We gonna censor this list NOW!-- You’re not from the Castle, you’re not from the village, you are nothing. Unfortunately, though, you are something, a stranger.

Re: Cypherpunk Manifesto

[Timmay]

On Tue, Sep 06, 2016 at 06:02:56AM -, Timmay wrote:
> Anything goes.
> 
> Fuckers.

Fuck you and you're anarchist ways! We gonna censor this list NOW!