On topic!
Talking to someone who was at the legendary cypherpunks anniversary bbq. He brought up the fact that someone there was talking about private hedonistic cells (any errors are mine, not his, and whoever talked about this, if they have any more thoughts on the matter, please feel free to email me.) Brought this to mind. Identity Based Encryption schemes. Fairly unworkable on the global scale for a number of reasons. Shrink the space. Say a small group. Split the secret for the key issuer, probably using a k-of-n scheme, where any new member needs k people to give k pieces of the new secret key to the new member. Transparent encryption to group members. Use broadcast encryption things for mail to group members, or subsets thereof. Open problems: Can you have an easily extensible k-of-n scheme? Or even an n-of-n? Key problem here being the fact that the former scheme is still valid, just ignore the fact that there's a new member. k would obviously be configurable based on group policies, number needed to instantiate a new member, and all that good stuff. What else can you do with a formulation like this? What else would be -useful- given a formulation like this? Proofs of membership to the outside? To other group members? Anonymity inside the group? Conditional anonymity subject to open by k (not necessarily the same k as before) members? Homogoneous front to the outside world? Internal cash? Group-generated random schemes? Mental poker put to some purpose? -- All that is not strictly forbidden is now mandatory.
Re: why bother signing? (was Re: What email encryption is actually in use?)
There have been episodes of spoofing on this list. If client side encryption just worked, and if what is considerably more difficult, checking the signatures just worked, there would be no bother, hence it would be rational to sign Not just work but opt out is what you are looking for. If there are n posters to the list and m people signing, then their are only n-m spoof targets. As m approaches n, the number of forgeries rapidly approaches zero as there is no one left worth spoofing who can be spoofed. But as each individuals chance of being spoofed approaches zero, the benefit gained by signing also approaches zero. Consequently unless there are additional costs to non-signing above and beyond spoof protection there will always be a substantial number of unsigned messages. -- Julian Assange|If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people |together to collect wood or assign them tasks and [EMAIL PROTECTED] |work, but rather teach them to long for the endless [EMAIL PROTECTED] |immensity of the sea. -- Antoine de Saint Exupery
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Title: °¨¤W¶ñ¼g¯Á¨úªí °¨¤W¶ñ¼g¯Á¨úªí §Ú̱N®Ú¾Ú¥H¤U¸ê®Æ»P±zÁpµ¸¨Ã°e³fµ¹±z¡I ©m¡@¡@¦W¡G¡@¯Á¨úªÌ¥u¶·t¾á¬¡°ÊÃØ«~³B²z¶O199¤¸ (¨ì¥I) ¦í¡@¡@§}¡G ¦í¦v¹q¸Ü¡G ¡@¤½¥q¹q¸Ü¡G ¤â¡@¡@¾÷¡G ¹q¤l¶l¥ó¡G ¥»°ª¯Å¨k¤h¥Ö¥ó²Õ¥]§t¦³¥Ö¥],¦W¤ù§¨,¥Ö±a,»â±a,»â±a§¨,»â±aªá¦â¤£±o¬D¿ï,¥ÑÃÙ§U³æ¦ìÀH¾÷©â¨ú
Re: Echelon-like resources...
On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Tyler Durden wrote: And indeed, in a world where most messages are fairly weakly encrypted, bursts of strongly-encrypted messages will stand out all the more and possibly flag the need for other methods of investigation. Doesn't figure: while it's easy to screen for high information entropy (archives have a signature), telling weak encryption from strong is nontrivial, unless it's conveniently labeled, and you're limiting the attack to a tiny fraction of the entire traffic, not realtime. And of course you can package 'strong' encryption into a 'weak' encryption envelope, so you will only know that 'strong' encryption has been used after you've broken the 'weak' envelope.
Re: was: Echelon-like resources..
Yes: The factory was bombed, but actual deaths were one night watchman, not tens of thousands, and he asserted that the Sudanese government are the good guys in the civil war, and their opponents terrorists. And how many of their citizens have or will die due to lack of those very same pharamceuticals that the bombed factory can no longer produce? Or suffer from disease due to the same? Perhaps not tens of thousands, but more than just the single night watchman, I'd say. The point isn't how many deaths, but what collateral damage was done. Not just in the sense of civilian casualties, but also the damage inflicted on those by the effect of not having said facility around. Of course, for all you and I really know that could have been an Anthrax factory cleverly disguised as as a pharmaceuticals factory, but we can put up rethorical questions and answers such as these for the next millenia and not get anywhere either.
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Title: °¨¤W¶ñ¼g¯Á¨úªí °¨¤W¶ñ¼g¯Á¨úªí §Ú̱N®Ú¾Ú¥H¤U¸ê®Æ»P±zÁpµ¸¨Ã°e³fµ¹±z¡I ©m¡@¡@¦W¡G¡@¯Á¨úªÌ¥u¶·t¾á¬¡°ÊÃØ«~³B²z¶O199¤¸ (¨ì¥I) ¦í¡@¡@§}¡G ¦í¦v¹q¸Ü¡G ¡@¤½¥q¹q¸Ü¡G ¤â¡@¡@¾÷¡G ¹q¤l¶l¥ó¡G ¥»°ª¯Å¨k¤h¥Ö¥ó²Õ¥]§t¦³¥Ö¥],¦W¤ù§¨,¥Ö±a,»â±a,»â±a§¨,»â±aªá¦â¤£±o¬D¿ï,¥ÑÃÙ§U³æ¦ìÀH¾÷©â¨ú
Ebay Secrets Revealed
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Keep off the rolls
Experian threatens to sue in electoral roll row 'In a growing battle over privacy rights, Experian, Britain's biggest credit reference agency, is threatening legal action against local authorities refusing to release information held on the electoral roll. An Experian spokesman said: A number of local authorities have taken it upon themselves to resist new government regulations which give us the right to buy electoral roll data for permitted purposes.' ( Guardian ) » See also this Guardian profile of Experian from last month, and this blog entry from May » In 1999 Privacy International declared Experian the UK's 'most invasive company' - see this Big Brother Awards webpage » Experian has also been contracted to build and maintain the new Europe-wide Motor Insurance Database scheduled to begin operation early next year - see this MIIC document (Word doc) (Download page: free Word Viewer)LINKS? http://www.hullocentral.demon.co.uk/site/anfin.htm
Re: Echelon-like resources...
At 10:52 AM -0700 on 10/13/02, Bill Stewart wrote: (You may not remember, but there was a program from fortify.net that fixed 40-bit implementations of Netscape, and there was even a one-liner Javascript signature-line program that let you set Netscape to use 128 bits... Not to mention the plaintext settings imbedded in the Netscape *executable*. ...it took you long enough, said a Netscape cypherpunk at the time of its discovery... Cheers, RAH Who saw them making the t-shirts, with pasted text from the file itself at FC97, complete with cypherpunks policy on it... -- - R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA ... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
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Re: kraf
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Low Mortgage rates get in on it NOW!
Below is the result of your feedback form. It was submitted by [EMAIL PROTECTED] ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) on Saturday, October 12, 2002 at 01:18:17 --- p86: Hello, I bet your home is very valuable to you? Then why not get in on LOW mortgage rates IMMEDIATELY!? Act now while mortgage rates are as low as 2%!! go here: http://61.172.245.20/cgi-bin/loan_app?leadsource=mz29 Thank You f93 ---
Public subscription assassination.
Old cPunk ideas never die... you could create a lottery. A lottery whose payoff was a reward to the person who came closest to predicting the time of death of a given government official. http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/Public_20Subscription_20Assassination First they came for the hackers. But I never did anything illegal with my computer, so I didn't speak up. Then they came for the pornographers. But I thought there was too much smut on the Internet anyway, so I didn't speak up. Then they came for the anonymous remailers. But a lot of nasty stuff gets sent from anon.penet.fi, so I didn't speak up. Then they came for the encryption users. But I could never figure out how to work pgp5 anyway, so I didn't speak up. Then they came for me. And by that time there was no one left to speak up. ~Alara Rogers (Aleph Press) n
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On topic!
Talking to someone who was at the legendary cypherpunks anniversary bbq. He brought up the fact that someone there was talking about private hedonistic cells (any errors are mine, not his, and whoever talked about this, if they have any more thoughts on the matter, please feel free to email me.) Brought this to mind. Identity Based Encryption schemes. Fairly unworkable on the global scale for a number of reasons. Shrink the space. Say a small group. Split the secret for the key issuer, probably using a k-of-n scheme, where any new member needs k people to give k pieces of the new secret key to the new member. Transparent encryption to group members. Use broadcast encryption things for mail to group members, or subsets thereof. Open problems: Can you have an easily extensible k-of-n scheme? Or even an n-of-n? Key problem here being the fact that the former scheme is still valid, just ignore the fact that there's a new member. k would obviously be configurable based on group policies, number needed to instantiate a new member, and all that good stuff. What else can you do with a formulation like this? What else would be -useful- given a formulation like this? Proofs of membership to the outside? To other group members? Anonymity inside the group? Conditional anonymity subject to open by k (not necessarily the same k as before) members? Homogoneous front to the outside world? Internal cash? Group-generated random schemes? Mental poker put to some purpose? -- All that is not strictly forbidden is now mandatory.
Re: why bother signing? (was Re: What email encryption is actually in use?)
There have been episodes of spoofing on this list. If client side encryption just worked, and if what is considerably more difficult, checking the signatures just worked, there would be no bother, hence it would be rational to sign Not just work but opt out is what you are looking for. If there are n posters to the list and m people signing, then their are only n-m spoof targets. As m approaches n, the number of forgeries rapidly approaches zero as there is no one left worth spoofing who can be spoofed. But as each individuals chance of being spoofed approaches zero, the benefit gained by signing also approaches zero. Consequently unless there are additional costs to non-signing above and beyond spoof protection there will always be a substantial number of unsigned messages. -- Julian Assange|If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people |together to collect wood or assign them tasks and [EMAIL PROTECTED] |work, but rather teach them to long for the endless [EMAIL PROTECTED] |immensity of the sea. -- Antoine de Saint Exupery
Re: US developing untraceable weapons
Well, there was also some other details left out by that article. A 100kW beam doesn't tell you very much if you don't know the beam diameter. A 1310nm telecom laser can cause serious eye damage with 10mW, but that's 10mW into, say 38 um^2. But it ain't going to do nothing to enemy aircraft located at a distance. A 100kW laser might easily have a smaller energy density depending on the diameter. In addition, there's the problem of focusing that thing through turbulence, but turbulence through certain wavelength windows may not be a problem. From: Steve Schear [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: US developing untraceable weapons Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 17:28:03 -0700 At 12:10 PM 10/11/2002 -0700, Major Variola (ret) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Theres no huge explosion associated with its employment, there are no pieces and parts left behind that someone can analyze to say, this came from the United States, explains an unnamed Lockheed Martin official quoted in Aviation Week and Space Technology in July. The damage is localized, and it is hard to tell where it came from and when it happened. It is all pretty mysterious. The only energy sources I can think of that is portable enough to go in a jet are a generator running of the main/aux jet engine or a chemical pumping. Unless the DoD has found a practical new chemical reaction, other than the Fluorine/Deuterium they used for decades on various shipboard project such as MIRACL, the plane would be easily identified and targeted by the fluorescing the chemical plume with LIDAR. Assuming a laser efficiency of 5% an electric source would have to provide over 2 MW of continuous power (from Star Wars test results, I assume a pulsed laser is inadequate for causing damage in combat situations) to supply a 100KW beam. The most efficient generators I'm aware are capable of producing about 2-4 HP/lb. 2 MW equates to about 2700 HP or about 650 - 1300 lbs. Assuming the laser isn't too terribly heavy or aerodynamically cumbersome the entire package could be carried aboard a fighter. steve War is just a racket ... something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small group knows what its about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses. --- Major General Smedley Butler, 1933 _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com
Re: was: Echelon-like resources..
Yes: The factory was bombed, but actual deaths were one night watchman, not tens of thousands, Well, you haven't given me a very convincing argument here. In most of his writings, Chomsky makes it clear that the deaths were not due to the bomb, but the loss of medicine (such as penecillin) in Sudan's only pharmecuetical factory. Or the fact that Nicaruaga brought the US before the world court and won? Perhaps that was true, Uh...perhaps? That should be a very easy thing to find out, and as the accusation and conviction were quite damming, and as you claim Chomsky regularly lies on many of his citations, I would have thought that this at least would be one citation you'd check. Got to say...I'm a busy man, and you haven't even said anything meriting even the investigaion of your dis-chomsky web page. From: James Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: was: Echelon-like resources.. Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 11:57:24 -0700 (PDT) Tyler Durden As for Chomsky lying, can you give us some specific citations? Did he lie about our support for Sadam Hussein? No Our support for Indonesia? Yes Our bombing of the sudanese pharmacuetical factory? Yes: The factory was bombed, but actual deaths were one night watchman, not tens of thousands, and he asserted that the Sudanese government are the good guys in the civil war, and their opponents terrorists. Or the fact that Nicaruaga brought the US before the world court and won? Perhaps that was true, but pretty much everything else he reported on Nicaragua was a lie, for example that the Sandinistas won free elections, and that the contras were a creation of the US, and that the Sandinistas were more popular than the contras. Granted, Chonskty can be a little tiring on the ears, but my knee-jerk reaction towards your calling him a liar is that you misunderstood the citation. But then again, I could be wrong, so do give us some examples, eh? See my web page Chomsky lies http://www.jim.com/chomsdis.htm Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos More http://faith.yahoo.com _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com
Re: US developing untraceable weapons
At 10:17 PM 10/12/2002 -0400, Tyler Durden wrote: Well, there was also some other details left out by that article. A 100kW beam doesn't tell you very much if you don't know the beam diameter. It tells you the output power, from which one may estimate input power requirements. A 1310nm telecom laser can cause serious eye damage with 10mW, but that's 10mW into, say 38 um^2. But it ain't going to do nothing to enemy aircraft located at a distance. A 100kW laser might easily have a smaller energy density depending on the diameter. In addition, there's the problem of focusing that thing through turbulence, but turbulence through certain wavelength windows may not be a problem. Beam spread is one of the most significant considerations in delivering high energy to distant targets. In general, one wants a large beam size to reduce divergence. The phenomenon of diffraction influences the propagation of Gaussian light beams. The output of a laser is generally ''pencil-like'' in nature and has a very low divergence, yet is subject to diffraction that causes it to spread. Gaussian beam theory deals with this effect. The Rayleigh range, Z sub R, is used as a criterion for determining the spreading of a monochromatic Gaussian light beam as it propagates in free space. In 1987 it was discovered that were ''nondiffracting'' beam types. The zeroth-order Bessel beam is one such solution and results in a beam with a narrow central region surrounded by a series of concentric rings. Ideally this beam type exhibits no diffraction or spreading, in practice it is possible to obtain Bessel beams of less than 1/10 the divergence of a Gaussian beam of otherwise similar properties. Bessel beams have been the subject of intense investigastion for a broad range of optical applications. http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~atomtrap/papers/AJPBessel.pdf http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~atomtrap/Research/IBB.htm
Re: Echelon-like resources...
On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Tyler Durden wrote: And indeed, in a world where most messages are fairly weakly encrypted, bursts of strongly-encrypted messages will stand out all the more and possibly flag the need for other methods of investigation. Doesn't figure: while it's easy to screen for high information entropy (archives have a signature), telling weak encryption from strong is nontrivial, unless it's conveniently labeled, and you're limiting the attack to a tiny fraction of the entire traffic, not realtime. And of course you can package 'strong' encryption into a 'weak' encryption envelope, so you will only know that 'strong' encryption has been used after you've broken the 'weak' envelope.
Keep off the rolls
Experian threatens to sue in electoral roll row 'In a growing battle over privacy rights, Experian, Britain's biggest credit reference agency, is threatening legal action against local authorities refusing to release information held on the electoral roll. An Experian spokesman said: A number of local authorities have taken it upon themselves to resist new government regulations which give us the right to buy electoral roll data for permitted purposes.' ( Guardian ) » See also this Guardian profile of Experian from last month, and this blog entry from May » In 1999 Privacy International declared Experian the UK's 'most invasive company' - see this Big Brother Awards webpage » Experian has also been contracted to build and maintain the new Europe-wide Motor Insurance Database scheduled to begin operation early next year - see this MIIC document (Word doc) (Download page: free Word Viewer)LINKS? http://www.hullocentral.demon.co.uk/site/anfin.htm
Re: US developing untraceable weapons
At 12:10 PM 10/11/2002 -0700, Major Variola (ret) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Theres no huge explosion associated with its employment, there are no pieces and parts left behind that someone can analyze to say, this came from the United States, explains an unnamed Lockheed Martin official quoted in Aviation Week and Space Technology in July. The damage is localized, and it is hard to tell where it came from and when it happened. It is all pretty mysterious. The only energy sources I can think of that is portable enough to go in a jet are a generator running of the main/aux jet engine or a chemical pumping. Unless the DoD has found a practical new chemical reaction, other than the Fluorine/Deuterium they used for decades on various shipboard project such as MIRACL, the plane would be easily identified and targeted by the fluorescing the chemical plume with LIDAR. Assuming a laser efficiency of 5% an electric source would have to provide over 2 MW of continuous power (from Star Wars test results, I assume a pulsed laser is inadequate for causing damage in combat situations) to supply a 100KW beam. The most efficient generators I'm aware are capable of producing about 2-4 HP/lb. 2 MW equates to about 2700 HP or about 650 - 1300 lbs. Assuming the laser isn't too terribly heavy or aerodynamically cumbersome the entire package could be carried aboard a fighter. steve War is just a racket ... something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small group knows what its about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses. --- Major General Smedley Butler, 1933
Re: was: Echelon-like resources..
On Sun, 13 Oct 2002, Sunder wrote: Of course, for all you and I really know that could have been an Anthrax factory cleverly disguised as as a pharmaceuticals factory, but we can put up rethorical questions and answers such as these for the next millenia and not get anywhere either. Exactly. So let's stop burning synapses on trivialities of daily politics. Being too out of touch is never advisable, but taking a deliberate vacation every now and then from the mass media sometimes pays.
Re: Echelon-like resources...
And of course you can package 'strong' encryption into a 'weak' encryption envelope, so you will only know that 'strong' encryption has been used after you've broken the 'weak' envelope. Oh yeah. Interesting. Of course, this would be done only if the sender knew or supected how mass-scanning might be done. And so the existence of another level of heavier encryption (see next paragraph) might be a tip off that this is not simply a financial transaction. But, it occurs to me that in some cases what might be done to determine the presence of hard encryption is for hardward to attempt to decrypt it for a certain fixed time, and if there's no success with X minutes/hours/milliseconds or whatever, then one assigns a certain probability that said message has been encrypted using something stronger than the International version of Bogus Notes (for instance). But of course, I'm willing to concede that at his point I'm talking completely out of my arse. (That will change when I get time to do some real homework in this area, however.) From: Eugen Leitl [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Tyler Durden [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Echelon-like resources... Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 13:32:45 +0200 (CEST) On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Tyler Durden wrote: And indeed, in a world where most messages are fairly weakly encrypted, bursts of strongly-encrypted messages will stand out all the more and possibly flag the need for other methods of investigation. Doesn't figure: while it's easy to screen for high information entropy (archives have a signature), telling weak encryption from strong is nontrivial, unless it's conveniently labeled, and you're limiting the attack to a tiny fraction of the entire traffic, not realtime. And of course you can package 'strong' encryption into a 'weak' encryption envelope, so you will only know that 'strong' encryption has been used after you've broken the 'weak' envelope. _ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
Re: Echelon-like resources...
On Sun, 13 Oct 2002, Tyler Durden wrote: And of course you can package 'strong' encryption into a 'weak' encryption envelope, so you will only know that 'strong' encryption has been used after you've broken the 'weak' envelope. Oh yeah. Interesting. Of course, this would be done only if the sender knew or supected how mass-scanning might be done. And so the existence of another Come on, do the math. There's a lot of traffic travelling all over the world right now. The volume still grows, albeit not at the projected hyperexponential rate. Assuming you don't tap decentrally (because that amount of hardware is a bit hard to hide, and thus hampered by such silly things like warrants (even rubberstamped), and feds installing boxes in ISPs racks and issuing gagging orders to abovementioned), you use the fact that the network topology is mostly a tree (so make it a mesh, then), and tap high speed lines (fiber). While I assume that there you can screen and filter if it's cleartext with lots of dedicated hardware, you're absolutely screwed if it's even 'weak' encryption. At these data rates you'll have trouble even computing the entropy of the data stream as it streams through your FIFO. Storing all of it is impractical, so you have to restrict yourself to extremely targeted (by source/origin, or the tag, assuming there is one). level of heavier encryption (see next paragraph) might be a tip off that this is not simply a financial transaction. 1) while I haven't done the numbers I would say there's maybe 10-20% of all traffic that is 'weak' encryption vs. 90-80% 'strong' encryption. Even if it's as bad as 50%/50% it is still completely irrelevant. 2) to tell whether there's something inside you have to break it. That's why I consistenly say 'weak' instead of weak. But, it occurs to me that in some cases what might be done to determine the presence of hard encryption is for hardward to attempt to decrypt it for a certain fixed time, and if there's no success with X minutes/hours/milliseconds or whatever, then one assigns a certain Or days, months, years, centuries, or whatever. On several megabucks worth of hardware. probability that said message has been encrypted using something stronger than the International version of Bogus Notes (for instance). But of course, Why should we concern ourselves with users of broken crypto? It's their problem, not ours. Since they're but a fraction, the use of strong crypto all by itself (assuming, you can tell, which is a high threhold) is not incriminating. I'm willing to concede that at his point I'm talking completely out of my arse. (That will change when I get time to do some real homework in this area, however.)
Re: What good are smartcard readers for PCs
-- James A. Donald Increasingly however, we see smartcard interfaces sold for PCs. What for, I wonder? On 24 Sep 2002 at 1:41, Bill Stewart wrote: I'm not convinced that the number of people selling them is closely related to the number of people buying; this could be another field like PKIs where the marketeers and cool business plans never succeeded at getting customers to use them. On 24 Sep 2002 at 19:12, Peter Gutmann wrote: Companies buy a few readers for their developers who write software to work with the cards. [...] Eventually the clients discover how much of a bitch they are to work with [] users decide to live with software-only crypto until the smart card scene is a bit more mature. Given that n_users n_card_vendors, this situation can keep going for quite some time. I have found that the administrative costs of PKI are intolerable. End users do not really understand crypto, and so will fuck up. Only engineers can really control a PKI certificate, and for the most part they just do not. In principle the thingness of a smartcard should reduce administrative costs to a low level -- they should supposedly act like a purse, a key, a credit card, hence near zero user training required. The simulated thingness created by cryptographic cleverness should be manifested to the user as physical thingness of the card. Suppose, for example, we had working Chaumian digicash. Now imagine how much trouble the average end user is going to get into with backups, and with moving digicash from one computer to another. If all unused Chaumian tokens live in a smartcard, one might expect the problem to vanish. The purselike character of the card sustains the coin like character of Chaumian tokens. Of course if one has to supply the correct driver for the smart card, then the administration problem reappears. USB smartcard interfaces could solve this problem. Just plug them in, and bingo, it should just go. Ummh, wait a moment, go where, do what? What happens when one plugs in a USB smartcard interface? Still, making crypto embodied in smart cards intelligible to the masses would seem to be a soluble problem, even if not yet solved, whereas software only crypto is always going to boggle the masses. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG UpBeNFF1UW7r7Fw8pVMxQG+xJ3mwsngHIp62BxL6 4D+u3ZM5e1JbeYAKaQ4dhOQrlZ42vq05cfz83rnCZ -- _ Remember Kids- Somebody tries to kill you, you try and kill'em right back... _ Kevin Elliott mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ#23758827
Re: was: Echelon-like resources..
--- Tyler Durden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, you haven't given me a very convincing argument here. In most of his writings, Chomsky makes it clear that the deaths were not due to the bomb, but the loss of medicine (such as penecillin) in Sudan's only pharmecuetical factory. As those who investigated the matter know, and Chomsky did not know, the factory produced chloroquine, which is inexpensive and widely available from many sources. There is no indication that chloroquine is any more expensive or less available than it was. Chomsy and his supposed sources did not know or care what the factory produced, let alone how much it produced, so where does the figure of ten thousand come from? the accusation and conviction were quite damming The list of countries convicted by the world court is for the most part a list of the worlds most free countries and most law abiding governments, and the accusers are, for the most part, a list of the worlds most murderous regimes. you claim Chomsky regularly lies on many of his citations, I would have thought that this at least would be one citation you'd check. If the world court had condemned Pol Pot's Cambodia, then I might have bothered to check. It did not. The world court is run by much the same folk who run the UN human rights commission. Got to say...I'm a busy man, and you haven't even said anything meriting even the investigaion of your dis-chomsky web page. For another example of Chomsky lying in his citations Those who love tyranny and slavery, love the lies and liars that protect it. For another expose of some other lies of Chomsky, see Nathan Folkert's check of various citations given by Chomsky during the Faurisson issue http://groups.google.com/groups?[EMAIL PROTECTED] ogle.com Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos More http://faith.yahoo.com
Re: Usenet vs. web for avoiding censorship
At 09:01 PM 10/11/2002 -0400, Steve Furlong wrote: There are two advantages of web-based discussion fora over usenet: propagation time and firewalls. On the other hand, few discussions are so urgent that they need near-real-time reparte, and participants shouldn't be cruising usenet from work. Feh. One of the reasons for doing discussions on email, and even more so for Instant Messengers and other chat tools, and for doing unmoderated newsgroups for technical discussions, is that the interaction and responsiveness is much closer to real time. One of the reasons web-based discussions are convenient is that just about anybody can set one up, either on their own site if they have one, or on some hosting service that's funded by unread banner-ads. Usenet, by contrast, became too bureaucratic to absorb millions of discussion sites, and any unmoderated group risks getting flooded with spam or off-topic discussions (the Libertarians-vs-Statists flamewar is built-in, but you can customize your own off-topic discussion instead.) And web discussions are light-weight, in that if nobody cares any more, they can die quietly in the corner and fall to the bottom of Google, lieing undiscovered for aeons until some unsuspecting soul poking around into the dark underbelly of the net encounters a dusty archive of... Another important issue is that web-board discussions have persistence - Usenet carried a high enough volume of traffic that most sites had to burn most of it after a few days to a week, because the volume rapidly exceeded almost anybody's spare storage. A few people did archives, and lots of people kept much longer histories of groups they cared about, but web-based discussions scale in much different ways than Usenet - it's easy to find things that people said last month, even if they are frequently-asked questions from people who didn't read the back issues. As far as shouldn't be cruising usenet from work goes, you're obviously some kid young enough that you weren't on the net until this web stuff showed up :-) While I've found that Usenet pretty much stopped being useful even before the September That Never Ended, there are still technical newsgroups that have good discussions, mostly about things I'm not particularly interested in :-) It was a lot more useful for work back in the early 80s - the real support for Berkeley Unix was Usenet, which would let you talk to other people who were trying to do similar things, and there were lots of real experts who not only read News, but responded to newbie questions as well as to new issues, and there was a huge amount of technical evolution going on in the Unix part of the world. Lots of that's over now - newbies became journeymen and then experts and then got tired of answering the same questions from the new crop of newbies, and since Cantor and Siegel's invention of spam and the growing popularity of the Web, things got noisy enough that most real signal was lost. (It's that old Yogi Berra line about Nobody goes there anymore - it's too crowded. We're having deja vu all over again as that happens to the web as well.) I think this line was from Tim, or else someone he or Steve quoted: Perhaps we need a new kind of structure, a more routinized form of Web mirrors. Something that happens more or less automagically. Check out the Wayback Machine at www.archive.org, Brewster Kahle's project to collect the entire Web.
Re: was: Echelon-like resources..
Sunder: Yes: The factory was bombed, but actual deaths were one night watchman, not tens of thousands, and he asserted that the Sudanese government are the good guys in the civil war, and their opponents terrorists. James A. Donald: And how many of their citizens have or will die due to lack of those very same pharamceuticals that the bombed factory can no longer produce? Or suffer from disease due to the same? Possibly, but neither you nor Chomsky knew or cared what pharmaceutical the factory produced, whereas I do. Thus my estimates of likely casualties are likely to be better than Chomsky's My point was not that the bombing was OK, but that Chomsky was pulling his facts out of his ass. His initial claim was that tens of thousands were killed directly by the bombing, and he came up with this stuff about shortages of pharmaceuticals only after being challenged on that claim. Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos More http://faith.yahoo.com
Re: What good are smartcard readers for PCs
Hey don't forget you can still buy a smart card reader from that most cypherpunkish of babes BRITNEY SPEARS ! Only $30 ! https://www.visiblevisitors.com/mltest/order_form.asp -- _ Remember Kids- Somebody tries to kill you, you try and kill'em right back... _ Kevin Elliott mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ#23758827
Re: was: Echelon-like resources..
Our bombing of the sudanese pharmacuetical factory? Yes: The factory was bombed, but actual deaths were one night watchman, not tens of thousands, If so, that's gross incompetence on the part of the US military, since the official rationale for why we were cruise-missiling it was that we were trying to kill Osama bin Laden after the bombing of the US embassies that he allegedly masterminded. and he asserted that the Sudanese government are the good guys in the civil war, and their opponents terrorists. Chomsky said that? That's appalling...
Re: Echelon-like resources...
packaging strong crypto inside weak crypto At 01:06 PM 10/13/2002 -0400, Tyler Durden wrote: Oh yeah. Interesting. Of course, this would be done only. if the sender knew or supected how mass-scanning might be done. And so the existence of another level of heavier encryption ... might be a tip off that this is not simply a financial transaction. Back when the Feds were trying to tell us that we should be patriotic loyal Americans and use weak crypto because it helps in the fight against Communism and other spies, they were making it clear that they *wanted* mass-scanning, and were busy lobbying Congress to give them money for it and also trying to get laws forcing phone companies to make things easy for them to do much higher volumes of scanning than the relatively limited amount they do now. Also, financial transactions are the ones that most need strong crypto, and have been most successful in getting permission to use it, because everybody understands that bank robbery is Bad, and credit card theft is Bad, and if banks and internet credit card transactions were forced to use weak crypto, Bad Guys could afford to build cracker machines on spec and pay for them with what they steal. This was especially the case after the EFF's DES cracker demonstrated that $250,000 was enough for a couple-day crack. But the Feds have been letting banks use DES for decades, and triple-DES for a while, and Netscape's inclusion of SSL in their browser was really the beginning of the end for the crypto bans, and a brave move on their part, especially since the difference between 40-bit and 128-bit RC4 is just how many of the bits you use in the key setup. (You may not remember, but there was a program from fortify.net that fixed 40-bit implementations of Netscape, and there was even a one-liner Javascript signature-line program that let you set Netscape to use 128 bits...
Re: Echelon-like resources...
At 10:52 AM -0700 on 10/13/02, Bill Stewart wrote: (You may not remember, but there was a program from fortify.net that fixed 40-bit implementations of Netscape, and there was even a one-liner Javascript signature-line program that let you set Netscape to use 128 bits... Not to mention the plaintext settings imbedded in the Netscape *executable*. ...it took you long enough, said a Netscape cypherpunk at the time of its discovery... Cheers, RAH Who saw them making the t-shirts, with pasted text from the file itself at FC97, complete with cypherpunks policy on it... -- - R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA ... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
License to POP3 (was Re: Usenet vs. web for avoiding censorship)
The main difference, the axis along which one classifies maillists/usenet/weblogs is the control. On usenet, once the site agrees to carry a newsgroup, you have many entry points and automatic distribution that is next to impossible to choke (other than with noise.) Maillists are more controllable (as even cypherpunk nodes experienced) but and probably the least bad solution so far. And they are not much different from usenet - fewer newsgroups (you decide what you want) and you are your own server. With today's connectivity and computing resources, smaller maillists (seeral hundred subscribers) don't really need servers (exploders) - just a shared recipient list. Very censorship-resistant. Weblogs are at the mercy of site operators and extremely vulnerable to moronship and censorship. This means that the Next Big Attack From Them will be on the e-mail. It's far too easy for everyone today to bear arms, I mean have an e-mail interface. = end (of original message) Y-a*h*o-o (yes, they scan for this) spam follows: Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos More http://faith.yahoo.com
Re: On topic!
On Sunday, October 13, 2002, at 01:16 AM, Ryan Sorensen wrote: Talking to someone who was at the legendary cypherpunks anniversary bbq. He brought up the fact that someone there was talking about private hedonistic cells (any errors are mine, not his, and whoever talked about this, if they have any more thoughts on the matter, please feel free to email me.) That was Eric Hughes. His notion, briefly, is that many effective groups operate with about 20-40 known-to-each-other local cells and with about 10 times that many overall members. While there are many mega-organizations with tens of thousands or even tens of millions of members (AARP, Sierra Club, Democrats, etc.), the effective size for actual communication and action tends to be a lot smaller. We all noted that most Cypherpunks physical meetings are in about this range, of 20 to 30 attendees, and that the mailing list has ranged from a few hundred to about 500 distinct, real subscribers for most of the list's existence. Profound or obvious? I guess you had to be there. --Tim May
