Re: maximize best case, worst case, or average case? (TCPA)

2002-07-04 Thread jamesd

--
On 4 Jul 2002 at 7:38, Anonymous wrote:
 Okay, you are afraid that only properly authorized code will
 run. Let's talk about one area: programming languages.

 What about compilers?  Development systems?  No doubt you'll
 claim these will be restricted.  They'll be like assault
 weapons.  Use a compiler, go to jail.  This despite the fact
 that they are necessary tools for technological progress today.

Similar controls are applied on biotech, severely impeding
biotechnology progress.   There are lots of people who just plain
do not like progress, precisely because it is likely to upset the
status quo.  Lots of people say biotechnology makes women
infertile, causes the cows milk to dry up, all the usual
accusations that were made about witchcraft.

The Chinese government was alarmed by paper and printing 1900
years ago, and made it a state monopoly and state secret, so that
it was only used by official people for official things.  Five
hundred years ago it became alarmed by the potential of ocean
going ships, cannon, and compass, and put an end to ocean going
ships, and so on and so forth.

 Or do you think that only properly authorized Perl scripts
 will run? That will never work.  Perl is tweaked all the time;
 the whole point of using it is so that you can adapt your site
 functionality quickly and easily.

Tweaking is hacking, hackers are evil, and must be punished for
their sins.

 The whole idea of outlawing programming languages and allowing
 people to only run software on an approved list is utterly
 ridiculous. Custom software is widely used throughout the world
 for all kinds of mission critical activities.  Business would
 never allow the government to forbid custom software.

Businesses would get licenses not available to individuals.  It
would be like medicine, reserved for special approved people.

 People point to guns.  Computer languages aren't anything like
 guns. You can ban handguns and it doesn't hurt anyone's business
 except a few gun sellers.  Banning custom computer software will
 drive a stake through the heart of business innovation and
 competition.

Most businesses do not want innovation and competition, and most
governments do not want it and do not permit it. You do not
realize how extraordinary and unusual the USA is in permitting
comparatively free innovation and competition.   In most countries
you cannot even rent out laptops without a permit.  If you cannot
rent out laptops without a permit, why should you be allowed to
program outside a sandbox without a permit?

As soon as a sandbox is available, there will be a movement to
restrict all unauthorized people to that sandbox.

Most governments in the rest of the world see the innovation
coming out of the US as a form of aggression and imperialism, and
they are angry about it and want it to stop.

 It's time for cypherpunks to remove their paranoia-colored
 glasses. One apocalyptic prediction after another has been
 proven false. Even post 9/11 the government floated one timid
 trial balloon about possibly restricting crypto, and it was shot
 down in a hail of criticism from all directions.

The SSSCA appears to have similarly sunk, but anti circumvention
laws were not, neither were privacy laws that prohibit some
forms of privacy, nor overly broad anti hacking laws. The camels
nose is in the tent, even if there is no immediate danger of the
rest of the camel.  COPA and the rest of that alphabet soup with
Children in the title are still on the books.  Businesses have
found ways around them, and there is no vigorous enforcement, but
eventually congress will come back for another bite, and close the
loopholes.

 If they can't even ban crypto, you think they'll be able to ban
 Perl?

They cannot ban crypto without first banning Perl.  That was the
point of the Crypto-on-a-T-Shirt movement.  Obvious solution.
First ban Perl, then ban crypto ten years later.  After all, why
would anyone want to use Perl unless they are running a web site?
If just anyone is allowed to run a web site, they can do all kinds
of scams and push all kinds of lies.  Besides which hacking will
make the cow's milk dry up.

 To the extent that people fear the TCPA and DRM because they
 think it will take us down a path to the mythical state where
 only approved software runs, they need to think again.  It can't
 be done.  Software is infinitely malleable, and it is this
 property that makes it so crucially important in business today.

Approved businesses will get licenses, and will be very happy that
there is one more hurdle for potential competitors to jump over.
If you are running a long established business, rather than
starting a new one, the more regulation the better.  After all, we
cannot risk the cow's milk drying up.

--digsig
 James A. Donald
 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
 d9PIH31teeAWscL+PT9c3fd8hA2wyFLNnFSCsdMq
 2lna9XnSiut372FRyn3baSiqMWZPAuJRA+x7kynJ8




Re: Markets (was Re: Hayek was right. Twice.)

2002-07-04 Thread Sampo Syreeni

On Wed, 3 Jul 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Again, If you offered the average guy the deal Would you like on demand
access to all movies and television shows ever made, even if it meant
fewer and lower budget movie releases in future?, I think most people
would go for on demand access to everything.

That might well be. But being that you're tapping into something largely
produced under existing copyright law, I fail to see why this is an
argument against continuing the practice of copyright in some form.

Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED], tel:+358-50-5756111
student/math+cs/helsinki university, http://www.iki.fi/~decoy/front
openpgp: 050985C2/025E D175 ABE5 027C 9494 EEB0 E090 8BA9 0509 85C2




Re: maximize best case, worst case, or average case? (TCPA)

2002-07-04 Thread Anonymous

James Donald writes:
 On 3 Jul 2002 at 10:48, xganon wrote:
  Do you really think that DRM systems could eliminate cypherpunk 
  applications?  Have you thought this through in detail?  Please 
  expand on it.

 The system as specified is harmless, because it can run anyone's 
 code, and thus can run napster like applications (break once, copy 
 everywhere.)  It also has many useful and valuable privacy
 protecting applications.

 However it is a system and set of institutions that can validate 
 that properly authorized code is running, and thus with a 
 relatively minor change can ensure that ONLY properly authorized 
 code may be run -- (Hey, we will protect you from all viruses, and 
 all poorly written code, and all code that facilitates anti social 
 behavior.)

Okay, you are afraid that only properly authorized code will run.
Let's talk about one area: programming languages.

What about compilers?  Development systems?  No doubt you'll claim these
will be restricted.  They'll be like assault weapons.  Use a compiler,
go to jail.  This despite the fact that they are necessary tools for
technological progress today.

And what about interpreted languages?  Python, Ruby?  What about Perl?
Seriously: will they ban Perl?  Half the web depends on it!  How can
they keep people from running Perl?

Or do you think that only properly authorized Perl scripts will run?
That will never work.  Perl is tweaked all the time; the whole point
of using it is so that you can adapt your site functionality quickly
and easily.

The whole idea of outlawing programming languages and allowing people
to only run software on an approved list is utterly ridiculous.
Custom software is widely used throughout the world for all kinds of
mission critical activities.  Business would never allow the government
to forbid custom software.

People point to guns.  Computer languages aren't anything like guns.
You can ban handguns and it doesn't hurt anyone's business except a
few gun sellers.  Banning custom computer software will drive a stake
through the heart of business innovation and competition.

It's time for cypherpunks to remove their paranoia-colored glasses.
One apocalyptic prediction after another has been proven false.
Even post 9/11 the government floated one timid trial balloon about
possibly restricting crypto, and it was shot down in a hail of criticism
from all directions.

If they can't even ban crypto, you think they'll be able to ban Perl?
People who believe this are utterly disconnected from reality.

To the extent that people fear the TCPA and DRM because they think it will
take us down a path to the mythical state where only approved software
runs, they need to think again.  It can't be done.  Software is infinitely
malleable, and it is this property that makes it so crucially important
in business today.  The government can no more ban unapproved software
than it could require companies to forego the use of computers entirely.




Re: data mining for moles

2002-07-04 Thread Major Variola (ret)

At 02:32 PM 7/3/02 -0500, Anonymous wrote:
   Gee, maybe I should head for Cali and set up a linux cluster shop.


The pay is good, less fog than SF, and traffic is better than the 101.
If you get nabbed and turn, you'll even get a new ID from the USG,
without having to do that work yourself :-)