Re: Give cheese to france?
At 12:56 PM 03/06/2003 -0600, Harmon Seaver wrote: Are you sure there weren't TIFs involved in building the mall? The mall here in Oshkosh (now defunct, turned into offices) was build with city money, the newest upscale condo being built downtown is mostly TIF money, likewise the newest big low rent housing development. There's worse state involvement than that - an appalling number of malls get eminent domain support from towns to force nearby landowners to sell them the land. Costco's management recently rejected a shareholder proposal that would have forbidden Costco to use eminent domain when building new stores. But even without that, most malls are owned by corporations, which only exist because the State calls them into existence, and in return for that favor it's legitimate for the state to place arbitrary restrictions on what they can do. (That's a political assertion, not a legal assertion - from a legal standpoint, the Pruneyard decision probably supports the guys with the shirts.) Malls that are owned by private individuals or partnerships ought to be a different case, and apparently there have been some courts which have decided that Pruneyard applies to malls with public walkways outside the stores, but doesn't apply to the insides of big-box stores. The guys with the shirts were interviewed on several TV shows last night - apparently the guards approached them while they were eating in the food court, and started off by demanding that they take off the shirts or else leave. The guys with the shirts may have just been abbreviating their descriptions, but they appear to have forgotten the magic words for this sort of situation, which are Get your manager and optionally Who's the manager from the mall company? (since mall rent-a-cops are often from a rent-a-cop agency rather than direct mall employees.) One thing that came out on The O'Reilly show was that, while the rent-a-cops' behavior seems bizarre and jingoistic, apparently there's some context to it - a couple months ago, there was a group of people who did an antiwar protest inside the mall, carrying picket signs and yelling a lot, so the guards may have assumed that these guys were part of the same thing. ~ Later updates - On Wednesday, about 100 people did a protest march at the mall protesting the arrest. Mall management has asked that police drop charges.
Re: Give cheese to france?
On Thursday 06 March 2003 22:21, Tim May wrote: snip Tim's message, all of which I agree with * * Except I think he made a typo: he wrote shooing but I suspect he meant shooting. Ditto, completely. Tim, you bring the matches and I'll get the gas. (Now, when I find myself in complete agreement with Tim, is it time to adjust my meds? grin) Really, some of you statist bastards need to look at the success of societies which respect and protect private property and compare with the success of those which do not. You can measure success by almost any criteria and get the same result. You'd think that watching statist nations self-destruct for more years than most of you have been alive would provide a clue, but I guess statist bastards' rock-like skulls and flabby, underdeveloped minds are clue-proof. In the meantime, you stupid, statist bastards can keep hiding behind your remailers when you post your anti-property or anti-American screeds. You'd better --- after all, hundreds, even thousands, of protesters have been shot dead right in the street for protesting. -- Steve FurlongComputer Condottiere Have GNU, Will Travel Guns will get you through times of no duct tape better than duct tape will get you through times of no guns. -- Ron Kuby
Re: Fw: Drunk driver detector that radios police
ggc University. A pump draws air in from the passenger cabin, a platinum catalyst ggc converts any alcohol to acetic acid, which then produces a current ggc proportional to the concentration of alcohol in the air. A chip analyses the ggc data, and if it is too high, turns on a wireless transmitter that calls the ggc police. but what about other passengers who have been drinking, and what about open windows? unless we're going to be forced to drive with tubes stuck in our mouths... -- stuart We are the only nation on earth capable of exporting security in a sustained fashion, and we have a very good track record of doing it. Thomas P.M. Barnett http://www.nwc.navy.mil/newrulesets/ThePentagonsNewMap.htm
Re: Trivial OTP generation method? (makernd.c)
On Thursday, March 6, 2003, at 03:16 PM, Peter Fairbrother wrote:
Tim May wrote:
On Thursday, March 6, 2003, at 12:05 PM, Peter Fairbrother wrote:
Thomas Shaddack wrote:
FIPS-140 is your friend. They did the math.
Cheers - Bill
fips140.c is a cool toy, thanks :) However, a bit unusable for my
purposes; the tests I run on data from /dev/dsp always fail. (I am
using
the tuner card, tuned to between the channels; visual test (cat
/dev/dsp)
looks like a noise.)
About 1% of this noise is cosmic-ray background, caused by cosmic
rays
hitting the atmosphere.
Unlikely in the extreme. Even galactic cosmic rays with TeV energies
are unimpressive when dissipating their (paltry) energy over several
hundred m^3, let alone over hundreds of km^3. The somewhat more common
GeV-energy particles are literally inconsequential.
GeV = 10^9 eV
TeV = 10^12 eV
One TeV in 10^-8 seconds is 10^12 {eV} x 10^8 {s^-1} / 6.12x10^18 {eV
J^-1}
or 16 Watts. 16 watts 50 km away will register on an untuned (ie with
maximun gain) TV receiver.
First, dumping all the energy in 10 nanoseconds is implausible.
Characteristic shower length, speed of light issues, etc. Get out your
calculator. (Hint: Many of the shower products even reach mountain
altitudes, sometimes even sea level.)
Second, even if somehow the energy of a TeV particle were to be
localized and dumped in the time you specify, an antenna 50 km away
would receive how much energy (power at source divided by roughly r
cubed, but lasting only the 10 ns you assume). No resonant detector
could see this, for obvious reasons of nonrepeatability, and no
ultrawideband pulse detector could see this.
Galactic cosmic rays go up to 4x10^21 eV. That's ~60 Joules, in say
10^-8
seconds, or = 6 GW =.
But so rare in any given region as to be notable events, which hardly
fits with their being part of the background noise in a sea level RF
detector.
Which is far more than any terrestrial TV transmitter I've ever heard
of.
I might be wrong, I haven't experimented myself and was just repeating
received wisdom. But not for that reason.
Get out your calculator. You're off by many, many orders of magnitude.
--Tim May
Stupidity is not a sin, the victim can't help being stupid. But
stupidity is the only universal crime; the sentence is death, there is
no appeal, and execution is carried out automatically and without
pity. --Robert A. Heinlein
Re: Give cheese to france?
On Thu, 6 Mar 2003 19:21:52 -0800, you wrote: On Thursday, March 6, 2003, at 02:11 PM, Major Variola (ret) wrote: Besides, the publicity has been great. I was told that after it made news, 150 women wearing the same T-shirts showed up at the mall. The security guards locked themselves in their offices. Probably messed their pants, too. If people didn't leave my property when told to, and the actual police would not expel them, then I would consider it morally justified to start shooing those 150 bitches. Sometimes people don't understand anything except bullets. My defense would be that it was my property, they were trespassing, and the police refused to do their job. Stupid defense, and if you found a judge stupid enough to allow it, I'd be surprised. If you proved the elements above, you are still guilty of murder. You'd be the bitch in prison over that one. No state in the US allows lethal force for trespassing. Do it the way you said and you go down for murder one. Frankly, many of you on this list really need to be doused with gasoline and then lit. Maybe YOU need them to be doused; others are unlike to think they need dousing. I'm ashamed to be on the same list with you statists and fascists. The Eurotrash nitwits are the worst. It's as if they were born in Communist countries and never shook their early training...which, come to think of it, is probably likely. Take a day off, go for a walk.
Re: Give cheese to france?
On Thu, Mar 06, 2003 at 04:06:28PM -0800, Bill Stewart wrote: At 12:56 PM 03/06/2003 -0600, Harmon Seaver wrote: Are you sure there weren't TIFs involved in building the mall? The mall here in Oshkosh (now defunct, turned into offices) was build with city money, the newest upscale condo being built downtown is mostly TIF money, likewise the newest big low rent housing development. There's worse state involvement than that - an appalling number of malls get eminent domain support from towns to force nearby landowners to sell them the land. Costco's management recently rejected a shareholder proposal that would have forbidden Costco to use eminent domain when building new stores. Ah yes, forgot about that -- the fancy condo right smack in the downtown historic district used to be a while city block of historic buildings people wanted to save, and, in fact, there were developers with money who wanted to restore them, but the city, for some reason no one could figure out, condemned them, took the whole block with eminent domain, then razed the whole thing -- with no plan whatsoever in mind for what would replace it. Or so it seemed. Then they sold the whole block to this other developer for one dollar, and gave him a ton of TIF to build a big, very modern, condo which doesn't even remotely jive with the rest of the area. This same city council approved a zone change from church/residential to business with no knowledge, supposedly, of what or who the purchaser of the property would be -- the church said it had to be kept secret. Turns out it's a new Super Wallmart. Isn't it great the way fascism works? But even without that, most malls are owned by corporations, which only exist because the State calls them into existence, and in return for that favor it's legitimate for the state to place arbitrary restrictions on what they can do. All corporate charters should require yearly re-approval, reviewed by a board of citizens, all elected. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: Give cheese to france?
On Thursday, March 6, 2003, at 02:11 PM, Major Variola (ret) wrote: Besides, the publicity has been great. I was told that after it made news, 150 women wearing the same T-shirts showed up at the mall. The security guards locked themselves in their offices. Probably messed their pants, too. If people didn't leave my property when told to, and the actual police would not expel them, then I would consider it morally justified to start shooing those 150 bitches. Sometimes people don't understand anything except bullets. My defense would be that it was my property, they were trespassing, and the police refused to do their job. Frankly, many of you on this list really need to be doused with gasoline and then lit. I'm ashamed to be on the same list with you statists and fascists. The Eurotrash nitwits are the worst. It's as if they were born in Communist countries and never shook their early training...which, come to think of it, is probably likely. --Tim May
Using time-domain reflectometry to detect tamper attempts on telecom cables
Time to time, usually when it appears on Cryptome, I skim through the revisions of Wassenaar agreement lists of controlled technologies. It's a neat way to keep myself up to date with what technologies are available on the market and the approximate degree of security they offer. One of the controlled articles on the recent revisions mentions this: a.8. Communications cable systems designed or modified using mechanical, electrical or electronic means to detect surreptitious intrusion. Which, together with what I stumbled over some time ago, leads me to an idea. Time-domain reflectometers are used to check the integrity of cables and fibers. Commercial devices tend to be awfully expensive, but in some cases they reportedly can be improvised. http://www.hut.fi/Misc/Electronics/circuits/tdr.html is an example of an el-cheapo (and probably low-grade) version. (I am unable to assess its performance, my highfrequency-fu sadly isn't too good.) Maybe it could be possible to build a dedicated TDR system intended to be connected to installed cablings, periodically test the cables by sending pulses along them and watch what returns, compare the result with long-term average, and report differences. Could possibly also help with early discoveries of various natural damages, not only intrusions. Opinions, comments, construction hints, ideas about better and/or simpler approaches?
Re: Fw: Drunk driver detector that radios police
At 10:52 PM -0800 3/6/03, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A tiny fuel cell that detects the alcoholic breath of a drink-driver and calls the police has been developed by a team of engineers at Texas Christian University. A pump draws air in from the passenger cabin, a platinum catalyst converts any alcohol to acetic acid, which then produces a current proportional to the concentration of alcohol in the air. A chip analyses the data, and if it is too high, turns on a wireless transmitter that calls the police. So much for the sober designated driver with a load of drunk passengers. Cheers - Bill - Bill Frantz | Due process for all| Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | used to be the | 16345 Englewood Ave. [EMAIL PROTECTED] | American way. | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA
Re: Give peace a chance?
On Wednesday, March 5, 2003, at 10:51 AM, Ed Norton wrote: Someone should go into that same mall with Support the War in Iraq T-shirts to see if they also get thrown out. What pisses me off is that its probably just some powerless little pion When I said that high-Z cosmic rays produce showers of particles, and thus dissipate their energy over much longer times than 10 nanoseconds, I didn't mean we had to actually list all of the muons and pions and suchlike produced. --Tim May
Fatherland Security Paranoids intercept rocks
ATTENTION TO ALL COLLECTORS OF RADIOACTIVE MINERALS...we recently learned that our huge shipment of minerals coming from the Congo to the US was stopped enroute, and ALL radioactive minerals were removed from the shipment and were returned to the Congo. This is set forth in demands from the new office of Homeland Security as fears that Uranium ores can end up in the wrong hands. Please understand that we are not writing this to obtain higher prices on the few pieces we have left. We felt it was necessary to inform you of this currant status of importation of radioactive minerals; we have no idea how long this situation will continue. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=2162835939category=3225
Re: Fw: Drunk driver detector that radios police
At 12:52 AM 3/7/03 -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A tiny fuel cell that detects the alcoholic breath of a drink-driver and calls the police has been developed by a team of engineers at Texas Christian University. A pump draws air in from the passenger cabin, a platinum catalyst converts any alcohol to acetic acid, which then produces a current proportional to the concentration of alcohol in the air. A chip analyses the data, and if it is too high, turns on a wireless transmitter that calls the police. False positives: What about folks with vinegar on their breath? False negatives: I could remember to use an airpump in an ethanol state in which it would be illegal/immoral to drive in. Fools: giving the police a link to your location and activities. And paying for the privledge. And who gives a fuck if its a fuel cell, (Texas Christian media whores) its just a catalytic detector, big deal. http://www.newscientist.com/hottopics/cars/article.jsp?id=2069 I'm in favor of it if they can overcome attempted bypass of the unit. Unless it cryptographically allows the car to operate only when functional, someone will figure out how to defeat it.
Re: Scientists question electronic voting
at Thursday, March 06, 2003 5:02 PM, Ed Gerck [EMAIL PROTECTED] was seen to say: On the other hand, photographing a paper receipt behind a glass, which receipt is printed after your vote choices are final, is not readily deniable because that receipt is printed only after you confirm your choices. as has been pointed out repeatedly - either you have some way to bin the receipt and start over, or it is worthless (and merely confirms you made a bad vote without giving you any opportunity to correct it) That given, you could vote once for each party, take your photograph, void the vote (and receipt) for each one, and then vote the way you originally intended to :) No, as I commented before, voiding the vote in that proposal after the paper receipt is printed is a serious matter -- it means that either the machine made an error in recording the e-vote or (as it is oftentimes neglected) the machine made an error in printing the vote. Or more probably, as seen in the american case - the user didn't understand the interface and voted wrongly. of course, you could avoid this by stating that the voting software displays the vote and gives a yes/no choice before printing the slip, but there is no reason to actually display the slip if there is no hope of voiding it short of storming out of the booth and demanding someone fix it.
Fragmented nets, national borders, ebay, surrealism
Over on cryptography @ wasabisystems.com there's a thread about Ebay not showing items to folks whose languages were set to German (ergo they must fnord be ruled by the German State which prohibits showing the citizens in its fnord care various things). The item in question is a 3-rotor Enigma. .. Interesting, when i try to look at this from work (over in brighton, actually), i get: Dear User: Unfortunately, access to this particular category or item has been blocked due to legal restrictions in your home country. Based on our discussions with concerned government agencies and eBay community members, we have taken these steps to reduce the chance of inappropriate items being displayed. Regrettably, in some cases this policy may prevent users from accessing items that do not violate the law. At this time, we are working on less restrictive alternatives. Please accept our apologies for any inconvenience this may cause you, and we hope you may find other items of interest on eBay. But I can hit it from my dsl line at home (right up the road). I guess Verizon T1-land is restricted... it depends solely on the preferred language settings of your browser. When I had German on the first position it was blocked too. When I rearranged it below English I could view the page.
Re: Trivial OTP generation method? (makernd.c) On 1e-16 BER and cosmic rays
At 05:50 PM 3/6/03 -0500, Tyler Durden wrote: On a slow day, Tim May wrote... Next you'll be claiming that chips can be influenced by cosmic and background radiation! When I used to characterize DWDM systems, we'd sometimes need to test down to a BER of 10(-14), with some vendors wanting 10(-16). (So we'd loop back a whole bunch of OC-48s and wait a few days for an error.) When operating under perfect conditions, once in a great while, with 16 or more OC-48s, we'd occasionally see an error. This we chalked up to cosmic rays, which I believed, but never really confirmed. The cosmic ray hypothesis has been criticized already. You might attribute a soft error to simple, local radioactive decay. [Hey, it worked for Tim] Background is ca. 10 uR/hr. Could be a few times higher if you have radon and don't ventilate e.g., at night. And stay out of the van Allen belts.. Errors might also be due to the random variables in your (noise, jitter, etc) models really being random, ie, eventually huge excursions. --- I'm pleased to announce we have outlawed Russia forever. We begin bombing immediately. -President Reagan (joking, unlike various sucessors)
Re: Give cheese to france?
On Friday, March 7, 2003, at 06:21 AM, An Metet wrote: I've been hearing liberals bleat about the actions of the cops and mall security. Their civil rights were violated! They have free speech! The mall is a public accomodation! Property rights don't trump personal rights! These fuckards really need to learn what private property is. The Net was partly financed by taxpayers, therefore the government has the right to stop hate speech on the Net and force encryption keys to be escrowed. Roads are paid for by the public, so searches of vehicles are permitted. Magazines are delivered using trucks which travel on government-financed roads and over government-built bridges. This makes is legal for government to have a say in what these magazines print. Homeowners get various subsidies from government, therefore their houses are subject to inspection by government. The confusion by many of the recent posters here shows why statism has taken such a foothold in the U.S., Europe, and elsewhere. --Tim May Join the boycott against Delta Airlines for their support of the Big Brotherish CAPPS II citizen-unit tracking program. http://www.boycottdelta.org http://boycottdelta.org/images/deltaeyebanner.gif With our help, Delta Airlines may be joining United and US Air in the bankruptcy scrap heap.
re: give cheese to France
Actually shooting 150 visitors would be hell on business. Damn, your pesky tenants will probably object strenuously if you simply shooed 150 potential (opinionated) customers. Stalin the Chinese tried the shooting route, the fallout wasn't cool. Fortunately the market apparently has responses to censorship (homocidal or otherwise). jay
Re: Fw: Drunk driver detector that radios police
At 09:28 AM 03/07/2003 -0800, Major Variola (ret) wrote: At 12:52 AM 3/7/03 -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A tiny fuel cell that detects the alcoholic breath of a drink-driver and calls the police has been developed by a team of engineers Would you buy one if you're drunk? Would you put one in your trunk? Who's the target market for this sort of thing? Engineers can build things for the existential pleasure of it, but usually they're trying to solve problems for people, and it's not clear what the business requirement is here. Did someone fund them? Who? Why? Doing the technical part of detecting alcohol vapor is cool, but doing the systems integration to make it call the police makes a large number of assumptions about the occupants of the car and the legality of the actions they're about to perform and the probability of false positives and false negatives and the willingness of the police to be called about it. (Police, for instance, don't like false alarms from burglar alarms.) Validating those assumptions is part of the engineering job, just like validating the effect of opening all the car windows before you get in is. Newspaper clippings usually don't do a good enough job on details to let you estimate whether the engineering was done well (except of course when things fail spectacularly.) Building a device that can call any pre-programmed number is a much different problem - it's almost identical technically, but applications include selling to parents for their kids' cars (and be sure to include a speakerphone in the communications part.) (Bobby! The machine says you're drunk! Are you ok? I'm fine, ma, I'm just driving Alice and Carol home.) or if you're trying to sell it to people who are habitual drunks, having it programmed to call a taxi makes more sense. There may be some captive market for selling to people on probation, who might accept it as an alternative to not being allowed to drive at all, but that's clearly a niche market, not an install-on-all-new-cars market.
Re: Fw: Drunk driver detector that radios police
At 2:56 PM -0500 on 3/7/03, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wow, easy there, chief. You're new here, aren'tcha? :-) Cheers, RAH -- - R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA ... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
Re: Using time-domain reflectometry to detect tamper attempts on telecom cables
On Fri, Mar 07, 2003 at 02:38:56PM -0500, Tyler Durden wrote: Undersea, I've heard that NSA uses splices, and that NSA has its own sub for that purpose. (And the company I used to work for did some work on undersea NSA optical projects, so I tend to believe the rumors I heard there.) Tapping the cable isn't all that impossibly hard (though the things carry considerable HV to power the repeaters/optical amplifiers so it isn't entirely trivial either). But getting the bits from under the ocean somewhere back to Fort Meade without being detected must be more interesting. One wonders if there is any other practical technology than just stringing another cable covertly all the way back to the nearest friendly location where intercept gear and links back to the US can be set up. Are there bouys out there in the middle of the ocean with satellite dishes or laser optical transmitters on them ? How do we hide them ? It probably is true that the right wavelength laser will penatrate water for some limited distance so a link could be set up from a bouy near but below the surface to a sensitive telescope in earth orbit. But this sounds awfully risky and complex. And I guess a simpler approach might be to fly aircraft or drones over the tap and relay that way, though having aircraft circling somewhere over a cable would be a dead giveway I should think... The original IVY BELLS tap was of a limited capacity FDM analog coax link and was done by inductively sensing minute skin currents flowing on the surface of the cable (eg leakage of the signal). AFAIK there was only one coax in each direction so separating out traffic was done by demultiplexing the FDM-SSB signals (same way it was done on shore) as there was no overlap of traffic on multiple wires. Apparently the IVY BELLS taps involved recording certain voice channels on vast capacity tape recorders powered by Plutonium decay theroelectric generators. The tapes were only rescued months later when the sub came back to the tap site. Doing this for a sonet ring carrying 10 gbs or so as some undersea cables now do seems rather challenging - at the very least how one would follow changes in channel allocations and traffic loading would seem very problematic. And intercepts that are weeks or months old would be very much less interesting in most cases than near real time intercepts - particularly of targets like terrorists. -- Dave Emery N1PRE, [EMAIL PROTECTED] DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass. PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2 5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18
Re: Trivial OTP generation method? (makernd.c)
On a slow day, Tim May wrote... Next you'll be claiming that chips can be influenced by cosmic and background radiation! When I used to characterize DWDM systems, we'd sometimes need to test down to a BER of 10(-14), with some vendors wanting 10(-16). (So we'd loop back a whole bunch of OC-48s and wait a few days for an error.) When operating under perfect conditions, once in a great while, with 16 or more OC-48s, we'd occasionally see an error. This we chalked up to cosmic rays, which I believed, but never really confirmed. -TD _ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Fw: Drunk driver detector that radios police
A tiny fuel cell that detects the alcoholic breath of a drink-driver and calls the police has been developed by a team of engineers at Texas Christian University. A pump draws air in from the passenger cabin, a platinum catalyst converts any alcohol to acetic acid, which then produces a current proportional to the concentration of alcohol in the air. A chip analyses the data, and if it is too high, turns on a wireless transmitter that calls the police. http://www.newscientist.com/hottopics/cars/article.jsp?id=2069 I'm in favor of it if they can overcome attempted bypass of the unit. Unless it cryptographically allows the car to operate only when functional, someone will figure out how to defeat it. Subscribe to The Gann Letter if you are interested in:varying levels of humor/jokes/quotes, parody/satire,science/space/technology items, cool news, games,programs, pics, and other interesting stuff. subscribe #1: [EMAIL PROTECTED]subscribe #2: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheGannLetter/joinsubscribe #3: gann (at) ganns.comread online : http://ganns.com
Re: Using time-domain reflectometry to detect tamper attempts on telecom cables
Well, I can only speak about OTDRs. Maybe it could be possible to build a dedicated TDR system intended to be connected to installed cablings, periodically test the cables by sending pulses along them and watch what returns, compare the result with long-term average, and report differences. This is already done in some networks. Actually, the OTDRs are set up on quasi-permanently to observe how a certain subset of a network changes over time. This is done particularly in extreme environmental conditions. (For instance, in the late 90s some of the service providers started to see occasional blackouts associated with very low temperatures. OTDRs deployed revealed it to be Temperature Induced Cable Loss...the sheath on a fiber bundle was shrinking in the cold, constraining some of the fibers within the sheath and causing high attenuation.) Of course, fiber optic networks change regularly over time as a function of temperature. (Polarization Mode Dispersion can change drastically in older fibers when comparing day and night). BUT, this is often overkill... Could possibly also help with early discoveries of various natural damages, not only intrusions. Opinions, comments, construction hints, ideas about better and/or simpler approaches? There'are already smart structures such as bridges that use VERY cheap versions of OTDRs to look at much less detailed information than a true OTDR. These incoporate FBGs (fiber bragg gratings) into the concrete, and the reflected energy through the grating is a strong function of the stress and strain on the structural elements. As for looking for spooks and terrorists, it's been known for a long time that NSA has its own sub that makes undersea taps, for monitoring intercontinental traffic. I've thought about how you'd detect such a splice, and I believe it would be difficult but do-able. Difficult because there's going to be a mandatory few dB of loss associated with the split, but that kind of thing can easily happen to fibersmaybe a killer dolphin chewed on the cable or something (and of course they'll use an isolator in order to hide whatever's on their side of the tap). But that kind of splice might have a characteristic signature that will look different from other random kinks or attenuation, particularly when combined with certain databases. (I'd say looking at it over time would help, but its probably too late for the undersea fibers.) -TD _ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
Re: Fw: Drunk driver detector that radios police
Screw that - just buy a few thousand of these little devices, disable them so that they're always transmitting drunk driver and install them in politicians' cars all over DC (make sure you install'em in cop cars too.) You can also leave them in cabs. They'll be banned immediately. --Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--- + ^ + :NSA got $20Bil/year |Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\ \|/ :and didn't stop 9-11|share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\ --*--:Instead of rewarding|monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/ /|\ :their failures, we |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/ + v + :should get refunds! |site, and you must change them very often. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sunder.net On Fri, 7 Mar 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A tiny fuel cell that detects the alcoholic breath of a drink-driver and calls the police has been developed by a team of engineers at Texas Christian University. A pump draws air in from the passenger cabin, a platinum catalyst converts any alcohol to acetic acid, which then produces a current proportional to the concentration of alcohol in the air. A chip analyses the data, and if it is too high, turns on a wireless transmitter that calls the police.
Re: Fw: Drunk driver detector that radios police
So you hook it up to a wad of cotton dipped in Jack... Whatever. Fuck Big Brother. Fuck it in the ass until it squeals, then fuck it some more. --Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--- + ^ + :NSA got $20Bil/year |Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\ \|/ :and didn't stop 9-11|share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\ --*--:Instead of rewarding|monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/ /|\ :their failures, we |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/ + v + :should get refunds! |site, and you must change them very often. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sunder.net On Fri, 7 Mar 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good job. You just caused law enforcement to ignore emitters from all cabs, government, and police vehicles. My guess is that the unit will perform a self-check and emit a broken signal instead of drunk. Maybe the police will only pull over broken vehicles not listed above, knowing that broken ones from average citizens are far likelier to have been sabotaged.
Re: Fw: Drunk driver detector that radios police
Good job. You just caused law enforcement to ignore emitters from all cabs, government, and police vehicles. My guess is that the unit will perform a self-check and emit a broken signal instead of drunk. Maybe the police will only pull over broken vehicles not listed above, knowing that broken ones from average citizens are far likelier to have been sabotaged. Quoting Sunder [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Screw that - just buy a few thousand of these little devices, disable them so that they're always transmitting drunk driver and install them in politicians' cars all over DC (make sure you install'em in cop cars too.) You can also leave them in cabs. They'll be banned immediately. On Fri, 7 Mar 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A tiny fuel cell that detects the alcoholic breath of a drink-driver and calls the police has been developed by a team of engineers at Texas Christian University. A pump draws air in from the passenger cabin, a platinum catalyst converts any alcohol to acetic acid, which then produces a current proportional to the concentration of alcohol in the air. A chip analyses the data, and if it is too high, turns on a wireless transmitter that calls the police.
Re: Using time-domain reflectometry to detect tamper attempts ontelecom cables
1. The NSA doesn't own it's own sub - they used a Navy sub - several infact. I think you're refering to how a US sub snuck into a Russian harbor, looked for and tapped phone lines. This was during the cold war. (It's possible that they own their own subs now.) They found the lines because signs were posted saying Don't dig here, attached the probe and returned with all the tapes they got, then they sent another sub, and got more signals, etc. 2. They didn't cut the wires, they attached a device around an amp (signal booster.) This was tempest based. Not sure what happy fun technology they used to separate one phone call from another, likely they had lots and lots of sensors to get differing but anyway, the physics of listening into to a signal traversing a wire is simple. (A wire parallel to another will pick up the RF signal in the opposite direction - this is why the difference between cat3 and cat5 is the number of twists - the more twists, the more you eliminate crosstalk at higher frequencies.) Not sure what the NSA would do to tap fibers, certainly tempest wouldn't work - except if there are repeaters nearby - or if they actually cut into the fibre to splice it. It's not too late for undersea fibers - just encrypt all traffic across. --Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--- + ^ + :NSA got $20Bil/year |Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\ \|/ :and didn't stop 9-11|share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\ --*--:Instead of rewarding|monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/ /|\ :their failures, we |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/ + v + :should get refunds! |site, and you must change them very often. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sunder.net On Fri, 7 Mar 2003, Tyler Durden wrote: As for looking for spooks and terrorists, it's been known for a long time that NSA has its own sub that makes undersea taps, for monitoring intercontinental traffic. I've thought about how you'd detect such a splice, and I believe it would be difficult but do-able. Difficult because there's going to be a mandatory few dB of loss associated with the split, but that kind of thing can easily happen to fibersmaybe a killer dolphin chewed on the cable or something (and of course they'll use an isolator in order to hide whatever's on their side of the tap). But that kind of splice might have a characteristic signature that will look different from other random kinks or attenuation, particularly when combined with certain databases. (I'd say looking at it over time would help, but its probably too late for the undersea fibers.)
Someone explain...Give cheese to france?
Tom Veil wrote...
These fuckards really need to learn what private property is.
('Fuckards'. I like that. GIMMEE.)
Alright. There's something I'm not getting here, so the Libertarians on the
board are free to enlighten me.
Let's take one of my famous extreme examples. Let's say a section of the New
Jersey Turnpike gets turned over to a private company, which now owns and
operates this section.
So...now let's say I'm black. NO! Let's say I'm blond-haired and blue eyed,
and the asshole in the squad car doesn't like that, because his wife's been
bangin' a surfer. So...he should be able to toss me off the freeway just
because of the way I look? (Or the way I'm dressed or the car I drive or
whatever.)
The way I see it is there's private property, there's public property, and
then there's reality with lots of stuff in between.
-TD
PS: And don't get all huffy. I'm actually asking a question, not trying to
make some huge point...yet.
_
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Re: Give cheese to france?
I'm ashamed to be on the same list with you statists and fascists. Lot's I don't get here. First of all, stating one perhaps should have the right to wear whatever T-shirt you want in a mall isn't necessarily statist. There are, possibly, non-state-originating arguments in favor of such a notion. More than that, there CERTAINLY are ways in which such a right could be enforced sans state. More than that, what's all this about dousing hating, and whatever about supposed statists and fascists, just because they wrote something on the friggin internet? If I believe that George W. should be king and Lord of all who gives a crap unless I actually try to DO something about it? Talk is cheap. Even laws are cheap...I don't get too worked up over fascistic laws and violation of the constitution or watever until someone actually starts trying to restrict my 'rights' (whatever the hell that actually means). -TD From: Tim May [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Give cheese to france? Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 19:21:52 -0800 On Thursday, March 6, 2003, at 02:11 PM, Major Variola (ret) wrote: Besides, the publicity has been great. I was told that after it made news, 150 women wearing the same T-shirts showed up at the mall. The security guards locked themselves in their offices. Probably messed their pants, too. If people didn't leave my property when told to, and the actual police would not expel them, then I would consider it morally justified to start shooing those 150 bitches. Sometimes people don't understand anything except bullets. My defense would be that it was my property, they were trespassing, and the police refused to do their job. Frankly, many of you on this list really need to be doused with gasoline and then lit. I'm ashamed to be on the same list with you statists and fascists. The Eurotrash nitwits are the worst. It's as if they were born in Communist countries and never shook their early training...which, come to think of it, is probably likely. --Tim May I'm ashamed to be on the same list with you statists and fascists. _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
Re: Fw: Drunk driver detector that radios police
Actually, read the article. It covers sober driver and drunk passengers. Quoting Bill Frantz [EMAIL PROTECTED]: At 10:52 PM -0800 3/6/03, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A tiny fuel cell that detects the alcoholic breath of a drink-driver and calls the police has been developed by a team of engineers at Texas Christian University. A pump draws air in from the passenger cabin, a platinum catalyst converts any alcohol to acetic acid, which then produces a current proportional to the concentration of alcohol in the air. A chip analyses the data, and if it is too high, turns on a wireless transmitter that calls the police. So much for the sober designated driver with a load of drunk passengers. Cheers - Bill - Bill Frantz | Due process for all| Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | used to be the | 16345 Englewood Ave. [EMAIL PROTECTED] | American way. | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA
Re: Fw: Drunk driver detector that radios police
I don't guess you read the article. It answers at least your first question. Another option to breathing through a tube might be to not drink alcohol before driving. Wow, you know... deterring people from drinking and driving might be a favorable side effect of this public-monitoring, information-gathering tool of big brother's. Erle http://ganns.com Quoting stuart [EMAIL PROTECTED]: ggc University. A pump draws air in from the passenger cabin, a platinum catalyst ggc converts any alcohol to acetic acid, which then produces a current ggc proportional to the concentration of alcohol in the air. A chip analyses the ggc data, and if it is too high, turns on a wireless transmitter that calls the ggc police. but what about other passengers who have been drinking, and what about open windows? unless we're going to be forced to drive with tubes stuck in our mouths... -- stuart
Re: Fw: Drunk driver detector that radios police
At 12:52 AM 3/7/03 -0600, you wrote: A pump draws air in from the passenger cabin, a platinum catalyst converts any alcohol to acetic acid, which then produces a current proportional to the concentration of alcohol in the air. I had an acquaintance years ago that always kept a bottle of cologne in the car. If he was ever pulled over after drinking, he would take a swig of the cologne before the cop got to his window. All the cop would then smell was the cologne and not the beer/whiskey/whatever he was drinking. In any case, alcohol in the cabin does not equate to an impaired driver. A chip analyses the data, and if it is too high, turns on a wireless transmitter that calls the police. Hackable and able to be spoofed. Cheers, Dan
Re: Fw: Drunk driver detector that radios police
Yes. Won't someone please think about the *children*? We shouldn't have a problem with being monitored 24x7 if we aren't doing anything illegal, right? Especially since it's for such a good cause! Did you ever think that perhaps this bothers people for reasons *other* than getting caught drunk driving? -p - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: stuart [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 2:43 PM Subject: Re: Fw: Drunk driver detector that radios police I don't guess you read the article. It answers at least your first question. Another option to breathing through a tube might be to not drink alcohol before driving. Wow, you know... deterring people from drinking and driving might be a favorable side effect of this public-monitoring, information-gathering tool of big brother's. Erle http://ganns.com
Re: Fw: Drunk driver detector that radios police
I would fairly entertain said discussion. Erle http://ganns.com Quoting Pete Capelli [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Yes. Won't someone please think about the *children*? We shouldn't have a problem with being monitored 24x7 if we aren't doing anything illegal, right? Especially since it's for such a good cause! Did you ever think that perhaps this bothers people for reasons *other* than getting caught drunk driving? -p - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: stuart [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 2:43 PM Subject: Re: Fw: Drunk driver detector that radios police I don't guess you read the article. It answers at least your first question. Another option to breathing through a tube might be to not drink alcohol before driving. Wow, you know... deterring people from drinking and driving might be a favorable side effect of this public-monitoring, information-gathering tool of big brother's. Erle http://ganns.com
Re: AmeriKKKa Tortures Detainees to Death
The kid was 22. When I was 22 I didn't know shit and I had a colege education. This kid probably had a 4th grade education if he was lucky. At 16 he probably joined the local army just to make sure he had a hunk of bread every now and then. Some time after that he hears that something bad happened over in America (a building fell down or something), and now the Americans are coming and they're blaiming the Afghans. So he picks up his gun and tries to survive. Probably didn't care too much about getting captured...the Americans probably have better food. So I guess the price for American freedom is torture and enslavement for everybody. Someone remind me to wiz on the next American flag I see. Then it won't stink as bad. I am ashamed. From: Eric Cordian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: AmeriKKKa Tortures Detainees to Death Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 11:02:50 -0800 (PST) I'd really like to see FOX News do a poll on who is more dangerous to world peace, Bush or Saddam. Here's a lovely story from this morning's news, on how the US is treating its prisoners of war in Afghanistan. Hopefully, this will encourage AmeriKKKa's victims to treat US POWs with similar kindness. http://news.independent.co.uk/world/politics/story.jsp?story=38 - America admits suspects died in interrogations By Andrew Gumbel in Los Angeles 07 March 2003 American military officials acknowledged yesterday that two prisoners captured in Afghanistan in December had been killed while under interrogation at Bagram air base north of Kabul - reviving concerns that the US is resorting to torture in its treatment of Taliban fighters and suspected al-Qa'ida operatives. A spokesman for the air base confirmed that the official cause of death of the two men was homicide, contradicting earlier accounts that one had died of a heart attack and the other from a pulmonary embolism. The men's death certificates, made public earlier this week, showed that one captive, known only as Dilawar, 22, from the Khost region, died from blunt force injuries to lower extremities complicating coronary artery disease while another captive, Mullah Habibullah, 30, suffered from blood clot in the lung that was exacerbated by a blunt force injury. US officials previously admitted using stress and duress on prisoners including sleep deprivation, denial of medication for battle injuries, forcing them to stand or kneel for hours on end with hoods on, subjecting them to loud noises and sudden flashes of light and engaging in culturally humiliating practices such as having them kicked by female officers. While the US claims this still constitutes humane treatment, human rights groups including Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch have denounced it as torture as defined by international treaty. The US has also come under heavy criticism for its reported policy of handing suspects over to countries such as Jordan, Egypt or Morocco, where torture techniques are an established part of the security apparatus. Legally, Human Rights Watch says, there is no distinction between using torture directly and subcontracting it out. Some American politicians have argued that torture could be justified in this case if it helped prevent terror attacks on US citizens. Jonathan Turley, a prominent law professor at George Washington University, countered that embracing torture would be suicide for a nation once viewed as the very embodiment of human rights. Torture is part of a long list of concerns about the Bush administration's respect for international law, after the extrajudicial killing of al-Qa'ida suspects by an unmanned drone in Yemen and the the indefinite detention of enemy combatants at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, a number of whom have committed or attempted to commit suicide. President Bush appeared to encourage extra-judicial solutions in his State of the Union address in January when he talked of al-Qa'ida members being arrested or meeting a different fate. Let's put this way, he said in a tone that appalled many, they are no longer a problem to the United States and our friends and allies. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law I _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
Re: Fw: Drunk driver detector that radios police
Wow, easy there, chief. I think you have some aggression you may want to let a professional address. Besides that... I'm not crazy about everything that the government does, but there are trade- offs in a non-perfect society. One of them is monitoring the innocent to, in turn, attempt to prevent the guilty from trampling over everything, God willing. I'm pretty sure that your Jack-dipped cotton swab will fall under tampering and intentional abuse of law enforcement resources, so you will pay your fine, then come back here to complain about the man that is trying to take away your world of lawlessness and accountability. There are countries that are very differing in their laws and liberties. Don't lose hope by thinking that this is the only one for you. You can try a few of them until one suits your flavor. Isn't freedom great? Amen! Quoting Sunder [EMAIL PROTECTED]: So you hook it up to a wad of cotton dipped in Jack... Whatever. Fuck Big Brother. Fuck it in the ass until it squeals, then fuck it some more. --Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--- + ^ + :NSA got $20Bil/year |Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\ \|/ :and didn't stop 9-11|share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\ --*--:Instead of rewarding|monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/ /|\ :their failures, we |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/ + v + :should get refunds! |site, and you must change them very often. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sunder.net On Fri, 7 Mar 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good job. You just caused law enforcement to ignore emitters from all cabs, government, and police vehicles. My guess is that the unit will perform a self-check and emit a broken signal instead of drunk. Maybe the police will only pull over broken vehicles not listed above, knowing that broken ones from average citizens are far likelier to have been sabotaged.
Re: Fw: Drunk driver detector that radios police
On Fri, 7 Mar 2003 Sycophantic Boot Licker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not crazy about everything that the government does, but there are trade- offs in a non-perfect society. One of them is monitoring the innocent to, in turn, attempt to prevent the guilty from trampling over everything, God willing. Tradeoffs you say? Monitor the innocent to find the guilty? Hmm, why, isn't that like being guilty before proven innocent? Hmmm... I think you're a total dickwad and work for the man. Fuck you. And fuck your willing God. It's assholes like you and who think like you that bend over and take it every time that kill our freedoms. Fuck you and fuck the man. I don't need any electronic snitch in my car. Do you? If you do, maybe you're in need of professional help! There are countries that are very differing in their laws and liberties. Don't lose hope by thinking that this is the only one for you. You can try a few of them until one suits your flavor. Isn't freedom great? Amen! If you don't like freedom, I'm sure Communist China will be more to your liking. Or perhaps Iraq? --Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--- + ^ + :NSA got $20Bil/year |Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\ \|/ :and didn't stop 9-11|share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\ --*--:Instead of rewarding|monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/ /|\ :their failures, we |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/ + v + :should get refunds! |site, and you must change them very often. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sunder.net
Re: AmeriKKKa Tortures Detainees to Death
and here's the cnn article about it back in December: http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/central/12/04/afghan.detainee.death/in dex.html It's just startling that we have to hear the truth from news organizations outside america. Our much vaunted 'free-press' has turned into administration lapdogs. - Original Message - From: Eric Cordian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 2:02 PM Subject: AmeriKKKa Tortures Detainees to Death I'd really like to see FOX News do a poll on who is more dangerous to world peace, Bush or Saddam. Here's a lovely story from this morning's news, on how the US is treating its prisoners of war in Afghanistan. Hopefully, this will encourage AmeriKKKa's victims to treat US POWs with similar kindness. http://news.independent.co.uk/world/politics/story.jsp?story=38
AmeriKKKa Tortures Detainees to Death
I'd really like to see FOX News do a poll on who is more dangerous to world peace, Bush or Saddam. Here's a lovely story from this morning's news, on how the US is treating its prisoners of war in Afghanistan. Hopefully, this will encourage AmeriKKKa's victims to treat US POWs with similar kindness. http://news.independent.co.uk/world/politics/story.jsp?story=38 - America admits suspects died in interrogations By Andrew Gumbel in Los Angeles 07 March 2003 American military officials acknowledged yesterday that two prisoners captured in Afghanistan in December had been killed while under interrogation at Bagram air base north of Kabul - reviving concerns that the US is resorting to torture in its treatment of Taliban fighters and suspected al-Qa'ida operatives. A spokesman for the air base confirmed that the official cause of death of the two men was homicide, contradicting earlier accounts that one had died of a heart attack and the other from a pulmonary embolism. The men's death certificates, made public earlier this week, showed that one captive, known only as Dilawar, 22, from the Khost region, died from blunt force injuries to lower extremities complicating coronary artery disease while another captive, Mullah Habibullah, 30, suffered from blood clot in the lung that was exacerbated by a blunt force injury. US officials previously admitted using stress and duress on prisoners including sleep deprivation, denial of medication for battle injuries, forcing them to stand or kneel for hours on end with hoods on, subjecting them to loud noises and sudden flashes of light and engaging in culturally humiliating practices such as having them kicked by female officers. While the US claims this still constitutes humane treatment, human rights groups including Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch have denounced it as torture as defined by international treaty. The US has also come under heavy criticism for its reported policy of handing suspects over to countries such as Jordan, Egypt or Morocco, where torture techniques are an established part of the security apparatus. Legally, Human Rights Watch says, there is no distinction between using torture directly and subcontracting it out. Some American politicians have argued that torture could be justified in this case if it helped prevent terror attacks on US citizens. Jonathan Turley, a prominent law professor at George Washington University, countered that embracing torture would be suicide for a nation once viewed as the very embodiment of human rights. Torture is part of a long list of concerns about the Bush administration's respect for international law, after the extrajudicial killing of al-Qa'ida suspects by an unmanned drone in Yemen and the the indefinite detention of enemy combatants at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, a number of whom have committed or attempted to commit suicide. President Bush appeared to encourage extra-judicial solutions in his State of the Union address in January when he talked of al-Qa'ida members being arrested or meeting a different fate. Let's put this way, he said in a tone that appalled many, they are no longer a problem to the United States and our friends and allies. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law
