Re: nettime PlayFair Sarovar
The GNU-Darwin Distribution is taking a stand against what Apple has done, and we have blackened our website so that people will take notice. http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ MacNN is also running a story about it, and it is interesting that Apple has sometimes used the DMCA to threaten them as well. http://www.macnn.com/news/24175 There are some discussion threads about it, although most messages are still in the queue and not yet visible. http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=6042 Here is a link to the original post. http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?forum_id=367147 Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ On 12 Apr, R. A. Hettinga wrote: --- begin forwarded text To: nettime [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: kevin lahoda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: nettime PlayFair Sarovar Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 14:51:11 -0400 Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: kevin lahoda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sarovar.org is India's first portal to host projects under Free/Open source licenses. It is located in Trivandrum, India and hosted at Asianet data center. Sarovar.org is customised, installed and maintained by Linuxense as part of their community services and sponsored by River Valley Technologies. From Sarovar's http://sarovar.org/ Latest News: After a short vacation thanks to a Cease and Desist letter from Apple, we're back online. Many thanks to Sarovar for hosting us.. -PlayFair Sarovar now hosts The PlayFair project http://playfair.sarovar.org/ which SourceForge has declined in order to avoid tangling with Apple's decision to go DMCA on their ass http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/04/09/1554203 . Like something from a Gibson novel, I wouldn't doubt if Sarovar rises to meet more than another of these occasions in the near future. And so, we have more contentious open source code hosted outside of the US in order to circumvent unfavorable legal processes. Offtshoring in itself is not all that new (another example: http://www.citi.umich.edu/u/provos/honeyd/ ). Here is how this one gets interesting: A big guy - Apple, goes a little sour, another (kind of) big guy - SourceForge, takes the easy route, and then an offshore repository stands in. With all of this, one thing that should not be ignored is that SourceForge should be shamed for not holding itself stronger. In a way SourceForge's decline of PlayFair and non-usage of the Safe Harbor Provision Act http://www.chillingeffects.org/dmca512/ is an admit of defeat and a failure to stand up for one's (community's) rights. What comes out of this? Well, maybe Apple wins because they avoid a chance of being tarnished. Imagine what consumer level acknowledgment of the reality of Apple marketing a clean yet gritty 'Garage Band' motif (with all that punk rock implies) while at the same time sleeping with DRM, recently RIAA, and now DMCA, could entail... One can easily see that Apple is dancing itself into a bit of a gamble. But then again, what does an Ipod zombie care about these acronyms anyway? What does SourceForge get? Not much. This only makes it easier for them to weasle out of the next situation that comes up. Not to mention they also missed a good chance to join PlayFair in telling Apple what's what. k http://sarovar.org/ http://sarovar.org/projects/playfair/ http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/04/09/1554203 http://www.chillingeffects.org/dmca512/ http://www.citi.umich.edu/u/provos/honeyd/ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/04/09/playfair_dmca_takedown/ # distributed via nettime: no commercial use without permission # nettime is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: [EMAIL PROTECTED] and info nettime-l in the msg body # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- end forwarded text -- Visit proclus realm! http://proclus.tripod.com/ -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C UBULI$ P+ L+++() E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e h--- r+++ y --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: nettime PlayFair Sarovar
On 12 Apr, To: R. A. Hettinga wrote: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=6042 Ahh, that link just dropped ;-}. Here is another. http://www.advogato.org/article/764.html Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://proclus.tripod.com/ -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C UBULI$ P+ L+++() E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e h--- r+++ y --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: I am anti war. You stupid evil scum are pro Saddam.
On 21 Dec, Michael Kalus wrote: I don't know who you are referring too, but that comment is amusing, because it is exactly the kind of lambaste broadside that one hears on Faux news channel all the time. Anyway, I say that Saddam has human rights, just like everyone else, which includes due process, right to counsel, and to face your accusers in an open court that has legitimate authority to find you innocent or guilty. The US is clearly and wrongly doing the opposite of this, and if this makes me pro-Saddam, then I will wear the label proudly. How can we offer him procedural guarantees enjoyed by U.S. residents when we won't be the ones conducting procedure at his trial? He's going to be tried in the ICC or by Iraqis in Iraqi courts. We have no good evidence that he's committed crimes against Americans, and unless we find some, I don't think that anyone would want him anywhere near a Federal courtroom. He won't be put in front of the ICC as the US never signed on to it. So this one is out. That leaves either an American Tribunal or an Iraqi one. In either case they should adhere to US procedures as they are based on them. Yes, but I think Justin is mistaking my meaning. In order for the trial to be fair and valid, it must adhere to certain standards, some of which I enumerated. They are not necessarily US procedures, per se. Based on these discussions, I think it is clear that the war crimes tribunal should be composed of elected Iraqi judges. This would have the advantage of adding democratic legitimacy to the process so that the result would be widely accepted, something terribly lacking in any proceeding under US auspices. Moreover, this solution addresses US exceptions to the international courts as well, since the case would be heard in US-occupied Iraq. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://proclus.tripod.com/ -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C UBULI$ P+ L+++() E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e h--- r+++ y --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Release Saddam now
On 19 Dec, James A. Donald wrote: -- On 19 Dec 2003 at 15:59, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If there is no one with legitimate jurisdiction to try Saddam, then he should be released. You are making De Sade's argument against natural law, to which his prosecutors rightly made the riposte, that if no one had the right to condemn him for torturing a maid, then no one had the right to condemn them for imprisoning De Sade. Interesting, did De Sade concur? ;-} Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://proclus.tripod.com/ -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C UBULI$ P+ L+++() E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e h--- r+++ y --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type APPLICATION/pgp-signature]
Release Saddam now
Saddam is being wrongly held by illegal invaders and occupiers. He should be immediately released or turned over to legitimate authorities, such as the international courts. Advocate for the release of Saddam Hussein, and the withdrawal of the USurpers. Pass the word. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://proclus.tripod.com/ -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C UBOULI$ P+ L+++() E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e h--- r+++ y --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type APPLICATION/pgp-signature]
Re: Release Saddam now
On 19 Dec, Anatoly Vorobey wrote: And here I thought the fuckwits couldn't get any dumber. Ahh yes, and such a clever riposts as well. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://proclus.tripod.com/ -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C UBULI$ P+ L+++() E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e h--- r+++ y --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type APPLICATION/pgp-signature]
Re: Release Saddam now
On 19 Dec, James A. Donald wrote: -- On 19 Dec 2003 at 13:17, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Saddam is being wrongly held by illegal invaders and occupiers. He should be immediately released or turned over to legitimate authorities, such as the international courts. To judge by its current woeful performance in the Serbian war crimes trials, the Hague would acquit Saddam and convict Carter. If there is no one with legitimate jurisdiction to try Saddam, then he should be released. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://proclus.tripod.com/ -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C UBULI$ P+ L+++() E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e h--- r+++ y --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type APPLICATION/pgp-signature]
Re: President of Flies
On 19 Dec, Nomen Nescio wrote: US is currently run by thugs supported by the cheering consumer crowds that have been bred and conditioned to be infantile. Your analysis hangs on this assertion. You may be underestimating the revulsion of the US electorate towards the actions of the current administration. Here is a related question: How do you think infantile US citizens would respond, if we were wrongly invaded by an outside power spilling blood on American soil? Iraq happened exactly because Bush is exploiting the outrage of US citizens over the 9/11 attack. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://proclus.tripod.com/ -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C UBULI$ P+ L+++() E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e h--- r+++ y --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type APPLICATION/pgp-signature]
Re: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention?
On 19 Dec, James A. Donald wrote: -- Saddam will be judged by his victims, who have jurisdiction enough for me. It is tempting to say that the victims have some kind of natural right to see justice done against this tyrant. The problem is that the there is no one in Iraq with legitimate authority to convene such a court, least of all the US or their puppet regime. In my opinion, Saddam should be released, or shipped out to an international court with recognized authority. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://proclus.tripod.com/ -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C UBULI$ P+ L+++() E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e h--- r+++ y --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type APPLICATION/pgp-signature]
Re: Release Saddam now
On 19 Dec, Anatoly Vorobey wrote: But Saddam's regime itself stemmed from illegal takeover of a previous regime -- doesn't that make all of his regime illegitimate and his authority void? No, by this argument nearly all the regimes of the world would be illegitimate. Saddam ruled a terrible regime, but he also overthrew a terrible regime. Anyway, Saddam enjoyed the authority of democratic acquiescence, which is the accepted standard. Even if Saddam's regime were illegitimate, which it was not, the aggresive acts of the US were still illegal. No authority can be derived from an aggressive and illegal invasion. By extension, the US puppet government in Iraq also has no plausible claim to authority. Why not? By definition, a puppet government rules by the leave of the military power, the US, which has no claim in this case to any legitimacy in Iraq. Thus, the puppet government can have no claim to legitimacy either. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://proclus.tripod.com/ -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C UBULI$ P+ L+++() E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e h--- r+++ y --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type APPLICATION/pgp-signature]
Re: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention?
On 19 Dec, James A. Donald wrote: Well if there is no legitimate authority, then state of nature applies. Give him the justice that Mussolini and Ceasescu got. Hang him by his feet from a lamp post in central Baghdad for his victims to use as pinata This would be an argument that the victims have a natural right to administer judgment against Saddam, which might be a valid point. In order to rightly exercise that perogative, the people of Iraq will be required to elect judges, or have them appointed by their elected representative. This would be a legitimate court in Iraq, but US military justice is illegitimate in Iraq, because of the illegal aggression. But I think we can find a legitimate authority somewhat better than that. And if we cannot, the mob has more legitimacy than the Hague. I'm afraid that due to the imperious actions of the Bush administration, you may be right about this. Moreover, the US is in a bind, because the US rulers were complicit in Saddam's only credible war crimes. For this reason they will never turn him over to the international courts, where this truth would be spoken loudly and repeatedly. It appears to me that elected judges is the way to go. Thank you for this stimulating discussion. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://proclus.tripod.com/ -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C UBULI$ P+ L+++() E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e h--- r+++ y --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type APPLICATION/pgp-signature]
Re: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention?
I would like to throw in with the OTO gunners here. If you are interested in an expanded and predictive analysis, check here. US aggression leads predictably to bad results: Take action to stop the war now http://proclus.tripod.com/radical/wartext4.html I wrote it in April, while US bombs were turning Baghdad into a second 9/11. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ On 17 Dec, Eric Cordian wrote: But when, however, people fly a plainload of passengers into two tall buildings and murder thousands, those dreadful Americans had it coming, were justly smacked like a naughty child, and have no right to get indignant. The two events are completely unrelated, except for the fact that 9/11 gave the US the additional hubris it needed to launch an unprovoked war of agression against another sovereign nation, in violation of international law and the wishes of the world community. Saddam's capture is the poisoned fruit of an illegal occupation, which is itself the poisoned fruit of an illegal invasion, whose clear purpose, despite the lies about Saddam's ready to launch nuclear weapons, was to control Iraq's oil, and eliminate support for the oppressed Palestinians. Bush knew that as long as he managed to attack Iraq, using any pretense, he would never be forced to leave once the excuses were revealed as lies, because if there's two things America is structurally incapable of doing, it's accepting blame and apologizing. Every American soldier in Iraq right now is a war criminal. Every dead Iraqi is a murder victim. As one writer so aptly put it... For months we have wanted to get our hands on the warmonger who terrorized the world with weapons of mass destruction. But, as we couldn't get George Bush, we had to make do with Saddam Hussein. -- Visit proclus realm! http://proclus.tripod.com/ -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C UBULI$ P+ L+++() E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e h--- r+++ y --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
RE: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention?
On 18 Dec, Trei, Peter wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would like to throw in with the OTO gunners here. [...] OTO Ordo Templi Orientalis? You don't mean *that*, do you? Why not? I suspect I'm suffering from acronym overloading. I was simply agreeing with the post of Eric Cordian, and hopefully adding support to the argument, while alluding to his interesting sig. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://proclus.tripod.com/ -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C UBULI$ P+ L+++() E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e h--- r+++ y --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: cpunk-like meeting report
On 14 Dec, Tim May wrote: No, we don't need a cpunx-news list. This is what Google and the ability to see hundreds of various lists and sites is for. News lists tend strongly to be just dumping grounds for crap from other lists. Yea, and I'll admit that I'm a junky, which is why I made the following pages... http://www.gnu-darwin.org/update.html http://www.gnu-darwin.org/applelists.html More... info., Must have ... more... Otherwise, if anyone could recommend additional good sources for cypherpunk-related news, I'd be very grateful, because I don't feel right about cross-posting news items to cypherpunks list. I'm already subscribed to the Cryptome rdf channel, Politech, and GNU-Darwin of course. I don't think I'm interesting enough for Interesting People ;-}. I failed the entrance exam for Interesting People, which is fine, for obvious reasons. ROFL! Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://proclus.tripod.com/ -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C UBOULI$ P+ L+++() E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e h--- r+++ y --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type APPLICATION/pgp-signature]
Re: cpunk-like meeting report
Hi, I've been admiring your and Tim's contributions, and I was wondering if either of you were planning to subscribe to the (new) news list. http://lists.cryptnet.net/mailman/listinfo/cpunx-news Be sure and check the archive before posting. It is still small. Otherwise, if anyone could recommend additional good sources for cypherpunk-related news, I'd be very grateful, because I don't feel right about cross-posting news items to cypherpunks list. I'm already subscribed to the Cryptome rdf channel, Politech, and GNU-Darwin of course. I don't think I'm interesting enough for Interesting People ;-}. Please feel free to write back to me on- or off-list for whatever reason you like. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ On 14 Dec, Major Variola (ret.) wrote: I went to a meeting of the Irvine Underground (irvineunderground.org) which reminded me of late-90s SF CP meatings. Although the overall tech level was probably lower and social implications weren't a big topic. Also, at this meeting, there were far more cameras or videocams than were present (at least overtly :-) at the few CP meats I attended. However, nyms were used more than they were (overtly :-) at CP meatings; this may have been due to a introduce yourself poll. The IU group seems to be a bit more social, going to movies for instance, than the topic-only CPs were. The meeting was held in a room at an IHOP (pancake restaurant for furriners) The exploit mentioned in http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2003-12-11-microsoft2_x.htm was demonstrated, we were debriefed on the recent LA 802.11b War Flying mission (and the EMI resistance of 1960's era single-engine airplane instruments :-). Toorcon organizers were present. About 30+ people were there, with what appeared to me to be a bimodal distribution of skills, some advanced, some admitted unix newbies, etc. There was even recreational lock picking. A WiFi LAN, net connectivity through someone's cell phone eventually. A video projector. I didn't notice persons with exceptional Euler numbers, though black was definately the color of choice for garments. Ages appeared well distributed from undergrad to hoary. One gent noticed a certain TLA on my cypherpunks T-shirt and admitted that he had once worked in Ft Meade, though he wouldn't say on what :-) -- Visit proclus realm! http://proclus.tripod.com/ -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C UBOULI$ P+ L+++() E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e h--- r+++ y --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type APPLICATION/pgp-signature]
Re: Decline of the Cypherpunks list...Part 19
I'm still quite new to this list, so if you find this interesting, please take it as from a newbie ;-}. On Sun, 7 Dec 2003, Tim May wrote: Read the archives and note the drop-off in certain kinds of political discussion. Even some of the former nodes have vanished; my hunch is that many of those subscribed to the vanished nodes never bothered to find another node. (I have no idea how many subscribers the list has. The nodes I know of don't allow listing the subscribers. I'd volunteer GNU-Darwin.org as a new node, but we are having issues with SMTP, dynablocker, spews list, etc. (BTW, if anyone can recommend a reliable and inexpensive closed relay service, that would be a big help.) Anyway, is there a FAQ, HOWTO, volunteer person, where I can learn how to set up a new Cpunks node? I'd love to do this, if it would help, and I'm sure that most of our users would also love the idea of GNU-Darwin assisting the Cypherpunks list, which seems quiet apt. I frequently post to other forums crypto-related items, which could include a link to the Cypherpunks list. bothered to find another node. (I have no idea how many subscribers the list has. The nodes I know of don't allow listing the subscribers. On 7 Dec, J.A. Terranson wrote: None of mine will allow it either, with the reason being the protection of the list contributors. A partial solution would be to list the number of subscribers in the list info, which reveals the info that is important to the community without revealing the identities of the subscribers. CP has always been so much more than crypto. The history here is political, with crypto not always playing a part. Even the non-crypto discussion is almost completely lost. Here is an old post of mine. I was worried about being off-topic, so I did not continue with it. http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/msg00722.html I'm a person who could post a ton of political stuff, which some might find interesting, but some of it may not be related to crypto at all. I support crypto against a government which would like to be called libertarian, which prats vacantly about democracy, free trade, and globalism while undermining freedom and constitutional liberties. This is the situation which necessitates private crypto. Conversely, many here likely would not be happy if I called myself libertarian, because I feel that corporations are titanic forces unfriendly to the vast majority of human beings and unworthy of human liberty. In short, I think that the libertarian position has been entirely undermined, coopted , and lost conceptual utility. The whole libertarian debate has become distasteful, trollish, and counter-productive, and it is driving people out of forums like this one, not attracting them. I would probably get labeled as a political spammer or a troll myself. I'm not sure this is what you want here. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://proclus.tripod.com/ -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C UBOULI$ P+ L+++() E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e h--- r+++ y --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type APPLICATION/pgp-signature]
Vivendi to Destroy MP3.com archive
Vivendi et al. about to demonstrate how they value artists and their work. http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2003/11/21/14616/561 Somebody please tell me that this is a nightmare, and I am about to wake up. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://proclus.tripod.com/ -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C UBULI$ P+ L+++() E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e h--- r+++ y --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
