Re: Big Brotherish Laws
At 05:39 PM 01/27/2003 +1300, Peter Gutmann wrote: That's because non-US licenses constitute automatic permission for minor traffic law violations. The scenario is something like the following: [Driver gets pulled over]. Driver: "Gidday mate, hows it going?" [Cop asks for license, looks at it] Cop: "A, screw it, too much paperwork. Don't do it again. HAND". The being-a-foreigner trick worked for me in Canada (the fact that I was driving a rental car helped.) A friend of mine back in NYC used to respond to traffic stops by speaking German to the cops and saying things about kilometers and the cops were generally already somewhat off-balance when dealing with him because he's got a mechanical arm and an eye-patch. Eventually, however, he encountered a German-speaking cop, and the nicht-spreche-das-Englishe jig was up.
Re: Big Brotherish Laws
Bill Stewart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >I have heard of one case where somebody was stopped in Nevada, and instead of >presenting his California driver's license, if any, he presented his >somewhere-in-the-Caribbean non-photo license and an international driver's >license, and that was just fine for Nevada. That's because non-US licenses constitute automatic permission for minor traffic law violations. The scenario is something like the following: [Driver gets pulled over]. Driver: "Gidday mate, hows it going?" [Cop asks for license, looks at it] Cop: "A, screw it, too much paperwork. Don't do it again. HAND". Peter.
Re: Big Brotherish Laws
At 12:45 AM 12/18/2002 +, Adam Back wrote: If I recall some time ago (years ago) there was some discussion on list of using non-US drivers licenses or out-of-state drivers licenses I think to get around this problem. I thought it was Duncan Frissell or Black Unicorn who offered some opinions on this. An International Drivers' License and a real license from another country is almost always good enough to let you drive in a state you don't live in, and almost never enough to officially drive in a state you officially live in, for definitions of "officially live in" that are more or less flexible depending on who's asking, and what the address of your car registration is, and whether you're registered to vote there, whether you carry a passport and have a foreign accent, and whether you own a house (which is a rather visible activity) or rent (which is less visible), and whether you've got somewhere else that you appear to live, and whether your out-of-state car keeps getting parking tickets in the same city for months, and things like that. I have heard of one case where somebody was stopped in Nevada, and instead of presenting his California driver's license, if any, he presented his somewhere-in-the-Caribbean non-photo license and an international driver's license, and that was just fine for Nevada. It wouldn't have been fine if he was a Nevada resident, but he wasn't. I forget if this person was driving a company car or his own. A surprising number of people I used to know worked for corporations in Nevada and drove company cars, and seemed to have business in the Bay Area a lot, and their Nevada credit cards seemed to work just fine here. (Nevada's taxes are much lower.) But it's much tougher to do that if you're a married couple and have kids in public school. California, like many states, doesn't take a full fingerprint set, but they do take a thumbprint using a digital reader. Rubber cement is rumoured to be helpful. I don't know about Washington, but I doubt you'll have much better luck unless you want to work hard at it, at least in Seattle, at least if you're an employee who gets a salary that's reported. If you're living in Vancouver WA (across the river from Portland OR), then it's easier for you to happen to be in the other state a lot and park your car across the border every other weekend.
more about using non-US driving licenses (Re: Big Brotherish Laws)
And this I guess was the cypherpunks post I was thinking about from Duncan below. The only worries then would be if the insurance company would consider you insured in event of an accident with a non-US license. (Where that could a Canadian insurance company, or a US insurance company if you can persuade a US insurance company to issue you insurance with a non-US drivers license). Of course in my case I do not have a Canadian drivers license but I think those are simpler to get. Adam http://www.inet-one.com/cypherpunks/dir.1998.08.10-1998.08.16/msg00052.html Duncan Frissell wrote on Tue, 11 Aug 1998 15:33:47 -0400: | [...] | Even if not, another thing they can't do is prevent you from driving | in California with an out-of-state or out-of-country license. Since | they are prohibiting the issuance of state licenses to non-residents, | short term "business visitors," tourists, and part-year residents, | will have to use their own licenses from other jurisdictions. | | Note that the state of California does not control the national | borders or the definition of "residence." A Canadian with a Lake | Tahoe house will be able to spend a great deal of time there and use | his BC license and BC-registered car. Residence (domicile) remains a | matter for common law court definition. There is no definitive test. | Ownership of a house in the jurisdiction is not determinative. | Additionally, the subject is *never* litigated save in cases involving | residency for political office and residency for taxation. Since a | driver's license is not worth any money to the State, they tend not to | litigate over such trivialities.
Re: Big Brotherish Laws
I wrote: > If I recall some time ago (years ago) there was some discussion on > list of using non-US drivers licenses or out-of-state drivers licenses > I think to get around this problem. I thought it was Duncan Frissell > or Black Unicorn who offered some opinions on this. Below looks like the comment from Duncan that I was thinking of (looks like Duncan had similar discussion on other groups): I wonder what the limits of this are. eg. if you could drive indefinately on one of these licenses it would solve the problem. Adam http://digest.textfiles.com/CPD/v3_070.txt | From: Duncan Frissell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | Newsgroups: comp.society.privacy | Subject: Re: SSN required to renew | Date: 4 Nov 1993 14:28:14 -0500 | Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC | | T >If anyone knows a state that positively does NOT require SSN, I'd | T >like to | T >know... I hacked the 1 January 1993 changeover by renewing my | T >license two | T >years early, so I have until 1996 to find a way around this. | | The "State" of Bitish Columbia certainly doesn't. | | Likewise, the UK, France, Tanzania, the Faroe Islands or other places that | issue driver's licenses that can still be used to operate vehicles on | California highways. | -More- | Duncan Frissell | | P.S. I heard a rumor that California was banning operation of out-of-state | vehicles that had no auto insurance even if they were driven by genuine | tourists. People from Wisconsin, say. Anyone know if this is true.
Re: Big Brotherish Laws
If I recall some time ago (years ago) there was some discussion on list of using non-US drivers licenses or out-of-state drivers licenses I think to get around this problem. I thought it was Duncan Frissell or Black Unicorn who offered some opinions on this. (Actually I am interested in this topic also because I have a UK drivers license and recently moved to the US; taking a drivers test is hassle, and having fingerprints taken (if Washington state is one of the states doing this) feels intrusive to me. ) There are also things called International Drivers Permits, which may allow you to drive for longer on non-US drivers licenses and/or allow you to more easily get a US driving license given an existing non-US license. In the UK at least you can buy an International Drivers Permits for 4 pounds from AA or RAC (motoring associations) on presentation of a currently valid UK drivers license. However I'm having trouble figuring out what the rules are. Washington state licensing say that you must apply for a state license within 30 days if you relocate. And yet I'm pretty sure you can drive for longer than that on an International Driving Permit (the UK ones last for a year I think). But perhaps different rules apply if you are holidaying as opposed to moving. Adam On Mon, Dec 16, 2002 at 10:28:51PM -0800, Blanc wrote: > About a week ago, someone mentioned that in order to get a Driver's Licence > in CA, one has to provide a thumbprint (and Social Security number). I was > surprised by this. So do long-term cpunks who own cars and drive in that > State have their finger print in the public database? (I have already > inquired of two in the Bay Area). > > Are there many other such laws/regulations in CA that you all know of with > which 'residents' are expected comply? > > .. > Blanc
Big Brotherish Laws
About a week ago, someone mentioned that in order to get a Driver's Licence in CA, one has to provide a thumbprint (and Social Security number). I was surprised by this. So do long-term cpunks who own cars and drive in that State have their finger print in the public database? (I have already inquired of two in the Bay Area). Are there many other such laws/regulations in CA that you all know of with which 'residents' are expected comply? .. Blanc
