Re: Computer Voting Expert, Dr. Rebecca Mercuri, Ousted From Elections Conference
Well, if you can't win on the truth, win on the procedures. At least Dr. Mercuri is in fine company there, ranging all the way back to Socrates and Galileo. Little consolation, I know, as our democracy gets replaced by a kleptocracy, but what can you do? Maybe she should set up stealdemocracy.com, a new voting machine company. Sell machines that explicitly let you steal elections. Get some press. Adam On Wed, Aug 06, 2003 at 11:08:38AM -0400, R. A. Hettinga wrote: | Notice they did this to Chaum, too... | | Cheers, | RAH | | --- begin forwarded text | | | Status: U | To: johnmac's living room [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Cc: Dave Farber [EMAIL PROTECTED] | From: John F. McMullen [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Mailing-List: list [EMAIL PROTECTED]; contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Delivered-To: mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 23:31:49 -0400 (EDT) | Subject: [johnmacsgroup] Computer Voting Expert, Dr. Rebecca Mercuri, Ousted From Elections | Conference | | Computer Voting Expert Ousted From Elections Conference | | Lynn Landes | freelance journalist | www.EcoTalk.org | | Denver CO Aug 1 - Dr. Rebecca Mercuri, a leading expert in voting machine | security, had her conference credentials revoked by the president of the | International Association of Clerks, Records, Election Officials, and | Treasurers (IACREOT), Marianne Rickenbach. The annual IACREOT Conference | and Trade Show, which showcases election systems to elections officials, | is being held at the Adam's Mark Hotel in Denver all this week. | | Mercuri believes that her credentials were revoked because of her position | in favor of voter-verified paper ballots for computerized election | systems. I guess in a very troubling way it makes sense that an | organization like IACREOT, that supports paperless computerized voting | systems, which are secret by their very design, would not want computer | experts who disagree with that position at their meetings. | | Dr. Mercuri said that her credentials were approved for the first three | days of the conference. She attended meetings of other groups and visited | the exhibitors hall. But it was only on Thursday as she sat down to attend | her first meeting at the IACREOT that President Marianne Rickenbach took | Mercuri out of the room and told her that her credentials were being | revoked. Rickenbach said that Mercuri had not filled out the forms | correctly. Mercuri protested, but was refused reinstatement. | | David Chaum, the inventor of eCash and a member of Mercuri's | 'voter-verified paper ballot' group, had his credentials revoked on the | first day of the conference. On the second day his credentials were | partially restored. Chaum was allowed to visit the exhibitors hall, but | not attend the IACREOT meetings. | | Rickenbach was unavailable for comment as of this report. Mercuri can be | reached at the Adam's Mark Hotel through Saturday. | | --- | | | When you come to the fork in the road, take it - L.P. Berra | Always make new mistakes -- Esther Dyson | Be precise in the use of words and expect precision from others - |Pierre Abelard | Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic |-- Arthur C. Clarke | Bobby Layne never lost a game. Time just ran out. -- Doak Walker | | John F. McMullen | [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 4368412 Fax: (603) 288-8440 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.westnet.com/~observer | NOYFB,P | | | | | | | Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- | Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark | Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 | http://us.click.yahoo.com/sO0ANB/LIdGAA/ySSFAA/XgSolB/TM | -~- | | To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | | | Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ | | --- end forwarded text | | | -- | - | R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ | 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA | ... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, | [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to | experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' -- It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. -Hume
Computer Voting Expert, Dr. Rebecca Mercuri, Ousted From Elections Conference
Notice they did this to Chaum, too... Cheers, RAH --- begin forwarded text Status: U To: johnmac's living room [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Dave Farber [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: John F. McMullen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mailing-List: list [EMAIL PROTECTED]; contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Delivered-To: mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 23:31:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [johnmacsgroup] Computer Voting Expert, Dr. Rebecca Mercuri, Ousted From Elections Conference Computer Voting Expert Ousted From Elections Conference Lynn Landes freelance journalist www.EcoTalk.org Denver CO Aug 1 - Dr. Rebecca Mercuri, a leading expert in voting machine security, had her conference credentials revoked by the president of the International Association of Clerks, Records, Election Officials, and Treasurers (IACREOT), Marianne Rickenbach. The annual IACREOT Conference and Trade Show, which showcases election systems to elections officials, is being held at the Adam's Mark Hotel in Denver all this week. Mercuri believes that her credentials were revoked because of her position in favor of voter-verified paper ballots for computerized election systems. I guess in a very troubling way it makes sense that an organization like IACREOT, that supports paperless computerized voting systems, which are secret by their very design, would not want computer experts who disagree with that position at their meetings. Dr. Mercuri said that her credentials were approved for the first three days of the conference. She attended meetings of other groups and visited the exhibitors hall. But it was only on Thursday as she sat down to attend her first meeting at the IACREOT that President Marianne Rickenbach took Mercuri out of the room and told her that her credentials were being revoked. Rickenbach said that Mercuri had not filled out the forms correctly. Mercuri protested, but was refused reinstatement. David Chaum, the inventor of eCash and a member of Mercuri's 'voter-verified paper ballot' group, had his credentials revoked on the first day of the conference. On the second day his credentials were partially restored. Chaum was allowed to visit the exhibitors hall, but not attend the IACREOT meetings. Rickenbach was unavailable for comment as of this report. Mercuri can be reached at the Adam's Mark Hotel through Saturday. --- When you come to the fork in the road, take it - L.P. Berra Always make new mistakes -- Esther Dyson Be precise in the use of words and expect precision from others - Pierre Abelard Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic -- Arthur C. Clarke Bobby Layne never lost a game. Time just ran out. -- Doak Walker John F. McMullen [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 4368412 Fax: (603) 288-8440 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.westnet.com/~observer NOYFB,P Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sO0ANB/LIdGAA/ySSFAA/XgSolB/TM -~- To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- end forwarded text -- - R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA ... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
Re: Computer Voting Expert, Dr. Rebecca Mercuri, Ousted From Elections Conference
On Wed, Aug 06, 2003 at 01:49:26PM -0700, Steve Schear wrote: | At 11:54 2003-08-06 -0400, Adam Shostack wrote: | Well, if you can't win on the truth, win on the procedures. | | At least Dr. Mercuri is in fine company there, ranging all the way | back to Socrates and Galileo. Little consolation, I know, as our | democracy gets replaced by a kleptocracy, but what can you do? | | Maybe she should set up stealdemocracy.com, a new voting machine | company. Sell machines that explicitly let you steal elections. Get | some press. | | A better solution, already available to voters, is to request an absentee | voter form. If a substantial number of voters asked to vote this way it | would overwhelm the voting machinery and completely negate any cost savings | expected from the distrusted automated systems. Huh? Voters don't control the security of the voting system any more than we control the security of the credit rating/id theft system. And similarly, your choice to not play doesn't protect you. Tim's idea of using the voting system's security to accelerate the de-legitimization of the system is a fine one, although it has the risk that the statists will get awfully violent as we try to ignore them out of existance. I don't see how an absentee ballot is going to make anything any better. Adam -- It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. -Hume
Re: Computer Voting Expert, Dr. Rebecca Mercuri, Ousted From Elections Conference
Here's another one. On Wed, Aug 06, 2003 at 12:20:30PM -0700, Steve Schear wrote: At 09:46 2003-08-06 -0700, Tim May wrote: I was intensely opposed to the gibberish about how the Republicans stole the Florida vote, for multiple reasons. First, the Dems wanted to change the rules after the outcome went against them...they wanted hanging chads counted in their favor (ultimately, of course, this wouldn't have even swayed the outcome, as careful studies by newspapers showed). Second, they wanted the Elections Commission to somehow adjust the outcome based on exit interviews with little old Jewish ladies who claimed they wanted to vote for Algore but who actually voted for Pat Buchanan or Jeffery Dahmer or whomever it was that was opposite Chad Gore on the ballot (note that Democrats designed the ballot). Third, they wanted only precincts known to be leaning toward Chad Gore recounted from scratch. (I would have _opposed_ a statewide recount on general common sense and legal grounds, too, but for sure I was aghast at the proposal to only recount selected precincts: We'll keep recounting until the outcome fluctuates in our favor!) This was certainly a farce, but the decision by the SC to intervene was worse. The matter should have been thrown into the House of Representative where the Constitution has provisions for its resolution (or lack thereof). steve Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide. John Adams -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: Computer Voting Expert, Dr. Rebecca Mercuri, Ousted From Elections Conference
At 1:56 PM -0400 8/6/03, R. A. Hettinga wrote: cannot prevent -3 negative miscount can prevent of course. Maybe I should apply for a job as a school superintendent... Cheers, RAH -- - R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA ... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
Re: Computer Voting Expert, Dr. Rebecca Mercuri, Ousted From Elections Conference
On Wednesday, August 6, 2003, at 08:54 AM, Adam Shostack wrote: Well, if you can't win on the truth, win on the procedures. At least Dr. Mercuri is in fine company there, ranging all the way back to Socrates and Galileo. Little consolation, I know, as our democracy gets replaced by a kleptocracy, but what can you do? Maybe she should set up stealdemocracy.com, a new voting machine company. Sell machines that explicitly let you steal elections. Get some press. It's a meme we might want to spread: They stole the election. (They) I was intensely opposed to the gibberish about how the Republicans stole the Florida vote, for multiple reasons. First, the Dems wanted to change the rules after the outcome went against them...they wanted hanging chads counted in their favor (ultimately, of course, this wouldn't have even swayed the outcome, as careful studies by newspapers showed). Second, they wanted the Elections Commission to somehow adjust the outcome based on exit interviews with little old Jewish ladies who claimed they wanted to vote for Algore but who actually voted for Pat Buchanan or Jeffery Dahmer or whomever it was that was opposite Chad Gore on the ballot (note that Democrats designed the ballot). Third, they wanted only precincts known to be leaning toward Chad Gore recounted from scratch. (I would have _opposed_ a statewide recount on general common sense and legal grounds, too, but for sure I was aghast at the proposal to only recount selected precincts: We'll keep recounting until the outcome fluctuates in our favor!) But I now see that spreading fear, uncertainty, and doubt about the outcome of elections serves to undermine confidence in government and make more people skeptical of the whole process. The meme that is commonly heard today is Bush and the Supreme Court stole the election. This is good. Shenanigans like the above story, with respected experts like Mercuri and Chaum excluded from a conference after they duly registered, will be good fodder for conspiracy stories about the 2004 election. (Actually, the recall vote on the governor of California is coming up on October 7th. Election officials are already claiming the ballots can't be ready in time, the machines will have to be brought out of mothballs and somehow made to work, and so on. I see many opportunities for spreading FUD about whatever outcome happens. Having Mercuri and Chaum ejected is the best thing that could have happened. --Tim May
Re: Computer Voting Expert, Dr. Rebecca Mercuri, Ousted From Elections Conference
At 05:48 PM 8/6/03 -0400, Adam Shostack wrote: Huh? Voters don't control the security of the voting system any more than we control the security of the credit rating/id theft system. The only way to show vote fraud would be to get enough voters to document that the State lied. That would depend on getting enough voters to document their votes such that the non-participants' share in the survey is insignificant to the outcome, as is other noise. Documenting might involve cameras. But cameras might be disallowed because admitting them admits a vote buying attack, since votes can then be demonstrated to the payer, much like paper receipts. The current system works, to the extent it does, because of the adversarial and open nature of the supervisory parties. Paper, absentee ballots could be xeroxed as proof. All fakable of course. Absentee ballots increase participation, and leave a better paper trail than computers, if anyone trustable cares to look. ... One question in voting threat analysis is how many conspirators are involved. Electronics lets you decrease that number.
