Re: Photographer Arrested For Taking Pictures Of Vice President'S Hotel
On Mon, Dec 09, 2002 at 11:14:18AM -0800, Tim May wrote: You really need to get up to speed on this issue if you think either the nations of Europe or Canada are more tolerant of crypto than the U.S. is. The archives have much material, findable with Google in most cases. Tim is right. Also epic.org (not a cypherpunk-friendly organization, but it does try to limit law enforcement surveillance) publishes semi-regular reports about the state of crypto laws around the world. -Declan
Re: Photographer Arrested For Taking Pictures Of Vice President'S Hotel
Declan McCullagh wrote: Also epic.org (not a cypherpunk-friendly organization, but it does try to limit law enforcement surveillance) [...] Is the cypherpunks movement truly so radicalized that it is not willing to count even EPIC among its friends?
Re: Photographer Arrested For Taking Pictures Of Vice President'S Hotel
On 15 Dec 2002, David Wagner wrote: Declan McCullagh wrote: Also epic.org (not a cypherpunk-friendly organization, but it does try to limit law enforcement surveillance) [...] Is the cypherpunks movement truly so radicalized that it is not willing to count even EPIC among its friends? Only in Declan's head. EPIC is a very pro-privacy for individuals, pro- government accountability and freedom of information, and has been a strong supporter of strong cryptography. EPIC is undeniably an ally.
Re: Photographer Arrested For Taking Pictures Of Vice President'S Hotel
On Mon, 9 Dec 2002, Anonymous wrote: It already has. And the hell with the horses -- tie the other end of the rope to a fast car. That would give a new meaning to drawn and quartered. There's a lot of bureaucrats who need that performed on them. Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike
Re: Photographer Arrested For Taking Pictures Of Vice President'S Hotel
On Tuesday, December 10, 2002, at 01:37 AM, Lucky Green wrote: James A. Donald wrote: In general wars lead to a major temporary reduction in liberty, but a smaller permanent reduction in liberty. Unfortunately the war on terror will probably never end, so there will be no recovery. I heard some governmental official on the radio the other day (I paid attention too late to catch the name) (Sidebar: I often wish for TIVO radio. I use my personal video recorder (PVR) features extensively to rewind through a story, to see what I came in late on, to catch a name. Great invention. Until Jack Valenti and his crowd have it declared a hacker tool, my Ultimate TV PVR is my favorite tool. I often find myself mentally thinking hit the backup button.) that the War on Terrorism should be won in about 60 years, at which point the American citizens would see their civil liberties returned. Obviously, only traitors, agitators, and other enemy combatants would make the outrageous claim that this war will likely last perpetually. I would never say such a treasonous thing. As a liberal chick here in Santa Cruz once said at a public meeting, The Constitution says people can have incorrect thoughts, but it doesn't say they can express them out loud if it's hate speech. Besides, I don't have any desire to visit Camp X-Ray. I have always loved Big Brother! --Tim May To those who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty, my message is this: Your tactics only aid terrorists. --John Ashcroft, U.S. Attorney General
Re: Photographer Arrested For Taking Pictures Of Vice President'S Hotel
-- On 9 Dec 2002 at 9:17, Tim May wrote: Anyone in the U.S. can be declared an enemy combatant and vanished away from lawyers, habeas corpus, the 6th Amendment, and any semblance of the system of liberty we sort of had at one time. So far this has only been applied to people who are obviously hostile muslim terrorist wannabees, but the program will be steadily expanded. Indeed, part of the homeland security act already aims at people who make cartridges (reloaders), who will in due course be dealt with by the extrajudicial means provided for in the homeland security act. In general wars lead to a major temporary reduction in liberty, but a smaller permanent reduction in liberty. Unfortunately the war on terror will probably never end, so there will be no recovery. The government is on perfectly good constitutional ground when it claims that the army can do as it pleases on or near the battlefield. Trouble is, with terrorism or guerrilla war, the battlefield is arguably everywhere. We need a declaration of victory that will push the battlefield to somewhere far away. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG FLOmVFJWOQBqPSg63zjCLyzrGNzmKNAwje/jqRal 4BI7xjE+ItnxvhioCvggkQ6IREbp21mrBxAIeCBcg
Re: Photographer Arrested For Taking Pictures Of Vice President'S Hotel
Tyler Durden said: In a way, the potential and impending truth of Tim May's statement is for a me a motivator to continue to promote strong crypto, ubiquitous Wi-Fi, BlackNet, and so on. Hopefully it won't come down to the above. It already has. And the hell with the horses -- tie the other end of the rope to a fast car.
Re: Photographer Arrested For Taking Pictures Of Vice President'S Hotel
On Monday, December 9, 2002, at 06:56 AM, Tyler Durden wrote: Frankly, millions of these fascists need a simple solution: a tree, a horse, and a rope. Damn. If it gets to the point where I'm a terrorist because some local warlord doesn't like me (or thinks I disrespect his authority), then might makes right is all that will be left. Anyone in the U.S. can be declared an enemy combatant and vanished away from lawyers, habeas corpus, the 6th Amendment, and any semblance of the system of liberty we sort of had at one time. In a way, the potential and impending truth of Tim May's statement is for a me a motivator to continue to promote strong crypto, ubiquitous Wi-Fi, BlackNet, and so on. Hopefully it won't come down to the above. It's mildly amusing to watch your months-long transition from newcomer to believer that crypto provides the tools for sabotaging the State and protecting real liberty. --Tim May If I'm going to reach out to the the Democrats then I need a third hand.There's no way I'm letting go of my wallet or my gun while they're around. --attribution uncertain, possibly Gunner, on Usenet
Re: Photographer Arrested For Taking Pictures Of Vice President'S Hotel
On Monday, December 9, 2002, at 10:55 AM, James A. Donald wrote: So far this has only been applied to people who are obviously hostile muslim terrorist wannabees, but the program will be steadily expanded. Indeed, part of the homeland security act already aims at people who make cartridges (reloaders), who will in due course be dealt with by the extrajudicial means provided for in the homeland security act. In general wars lead to a major temporary reduction in liberty, but a smaller permanent reduction in liberty. Unfortunately the war on terror will probably never end, so there will be no recovery. The government is on perfectly good constitutional ground when it claims that the army can do as it pleases on or near the battlefield. Trouble is, with terrorism or guerrilla war, the battlefield is arguably everywhere. We need a declaration of victory that will push the battlefield to somewhere far away. Permanent war was the ideal for statists long, long before Orwell correctly described it in 1984. The First Fascist, Lincoln, suspended the Constitution and instituted Emergency Powers which are still in place. (Others have studied this in more detail than I remember here. I think Froomkin was one who did a study. Anyway, the gist is that various Emergency Orders, Emergency Powers, etc. have been more or less in place since the 1860s. They took a sharp turn upward during the Second Fascist's rule, in the 1930s, and then again during the Third, Fourth, and Fifth Fascist periods.) --Tim May That the said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms. --Samuel Adams
Re: Photographer Arrested For Taking Pictures Of Vice President'S Hotel
On Monday, December 9, 2002, at 10:48 AM, Tyler Durden wrote: In a state where Crypto is not resisted (OK, there probably aren't a lot of these...perhaps in Europe or Canada?), Crypto defaults to the above. You really need to get up to speed on this issue if you think either the nations of Europe or Canada are more tolerant of crypto than the U.S. is. The archives have much material, findable with Google in most cases. ... This is essentially the view I had coming in, and its basically the view I have now, except I am thinking I should start finding the time to write some code! That sounds good. --Tim May They played all kinds of games, kept the House in session all night, and it was a very complicated bill. Maybe a handful of staffers actually read it, but the bill definitely was not available to members before the vote. --Rep. Ron Paul, TX, on how few Congresscritters saw the USA-PATRIOT Bill before voting overwhelmingly to impose a police state
Re: Photographer Arrested For Taking Pictures Of Vice President'S Hotel
On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, Tim May wrote: Frankly, millions of these fascists need a simple solution: a tree, a horse, and a rope. There aren't enough horses :-) Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike
Re: Photographer Arrested For Taking Pictures Of Vice President'S Hotel
jet wrote: At 20:48 -0500 2002/12/07, Myers W. Carpenter wrote: http://www.2600.com/news/display/display.shtml?id=1441 PHOTOGRAPHER ARRESTED FOR TAKING PICTURES OF VICE PRESIDENT'S HOTEL Posted 5 Dec 2002 06:03:48 UTC One major issue is these days, the laws have become so incredibly complicated that the average citizen isn't confident in their knowledge of the law, let alone most that enforce it. They know that the average citizen is going to want to 'do the right thing' and comply with any requests, whether or not any laws were broken. And let's face it, even if you or I know our rights to the letter it doesn't make a bit of difference until after the fact in a courtoom. Police generally won't sit and debate with you about it on the spot.
