Re: punk and free markets
Gold star. Velvet Underground is definitely ground zero for Punk to my ears, but with this recent set of pre-Velvets minimalist releases (eg, Dream Theater, with LaMount Young, John Cale--who helped start the band I was in, and others), the stage was somewhat set. Yeah, yeah, yeah; I loved the Velvets too - but the stuff we Brits called punk in 1976 was quite unlike that, except for being a bit raucous. It was more derived from a kind of mutated pub-rock mated with football chants, with undertones of Hawkwind-like bass riffs, played by semi-competent nerds. NY invented punk first. Then London invented something else and stole the name. So sue us.
Re: punk and free markets
Declan: Yes perhaps. I try not to think too much (I don't trust 'thinking' unless its mathematics or a good experimental setup), but I'll ponder for a while, to the extent that I am able -TD From: Declan McCullagh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Tyler Durden [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: punk and free markets Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 00:48:40 -0500 On Sat, Feb 01, 2003 at 06:33:50PM -0500, Tyler Durden wrote: name cypherpunks) has aspects of that character. But it always pisses me off when I see the local jocks or other thoughtpolice come on out and enforce whatever ideology it is desired we bow down to. Jocks enforcing ideology seems to me to be a concept coterminous with flaming the clueless. :) -Declan _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: punk and free markets
On Sat, Feb 01, 2003 at 06:33:50PM -0500, Tyler Durden wrote: name cypherpunks) has aspects of that character. But it always pisses me off when I see the local jocks or other thoughtpolice come on out and enforce whatever ideology it is desired we bow down to. Jocks enforcing ideology seems to me to be a concept coterminous with flaming the clueless. :) -Declan
Re: punk and free markets
Tim May wrote... Silliness. The name cypherpunks was a pun on cyberpunks, a pun suggested by Jude Milhon, a woman writer for Mondo 2000 at the time. Being that there is no body which decides what our group is called, or even that it _is_ a group, saying that someone's pun on top of someone else's pun means some political ideology attached to degenerates like Sid Vicious, the Dead Kennedy's, etc., is pure silliness. Whether even cyberpunks had anything substantive to do with the so-called punk music scene is debatable, but cypherpunks certainly did not. The political ideology of all musical punks I have met is decidedly leftist, and not in the way libertarians often like. Rather, the leftists of British socialism, of American Democrat statists, and of Trotskyites in general. Sometimes I keep asking myself if the author of statements like these is really pretending Guru-like to be clueless just to elicit a response. But it's obvious here that whoever Tim May is he's just about clueless. In the discussions about the meaning of the suffix -punk I don't remember seeing any suggestion that Cypherpunks had any connection politically or music-wise to punk music. The posts were meant to explore what quintessentially punk flavorings might be implied by the name or that may be reflected in the overall makeup of the list. And yes, I was aware of where the term originated from, and it was clear to me that the intent of the naming was to imply a sort of anti-establishment don't give a crap we're going to code and unload crypto apps attitude. And to some extent, the list (no, not a group, but a set of lists with the name cypherpunks) has aspects of that character. But it always pisses me off when I see the local jocks or other thoughtpolice come on out and enforce whatever ideology it is desired we bow down to. Hmmm...a song lyric comes to mind... If you've come to fight, get outa here You ain't no better than the bouncers We ain't trying to be police When you ape the cops it ain't anarchy (From Nazi Punks Fuck Off by the Dead Kennedys) _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
Re: punk and free markets
On Friday, January 31, 2003, at 09:05 AM, Michael Motyka wrote: Jim Choate wrote : This list, at least in the Fraunhoffer region, does on some level emanate a Punk attitude, and tolerating the presence of a crypto-fascist or two is something of a consequence. But I'm sick of seeing the Tim May cops come out every time someone suggests a different political notion. 'Tim May cops'? Not a very punk attitude you have there. You give Tim way! too much credit. I don't see much apart from anarchy and capitalism - the system is in place and running WOT ( Wide Open Throttle ). Tim just doesn't like some of the players. Silliness. The name cypherpunks was a pun on cyberpunks, a pun suggested by Jude Milhon, a woman writer for Mondo 2000 at the time. Being that there is no body which decides what our group is called, or even that it _is_ a group, saying that someone's pun on top of someone else's pun means some political ideology attached to degenerates like Sid Vicious, the Dead Kennedy's, etc., is pure silliness. Whether even cyberpunks had anything substantive to do with the so-called punk music scene is debatable, but cypherpunks certainly did not. The political ideology of all musical punks I have met is decidedly leftist, and not in the way libertarians often like. Rather, the leftists of British socialism, of American Democrat statists, and of Trotskyites in general. It was a pun on a pun, so to speak. Had someone come up with a funnier pun, something better than officious names like Crypto Rights, that's probably what the loose association of folks would have been called. But no one did, so Jude's name stuck. That Jim Choate is carrying the banner for leftie punkism is not at all surprising. --Tim May Ben Franklin warned us that those who would trade liberty for a little bit of temporary security deserve neither. This is the path we are now racing down, with American flags fluttering.-- Tim May, on events following 9/11/2001
