Re: cpunk-like meeting report
On Tue, Dec 16, 2003 at 10:50:51AM -0500, V Alex Brennen wrote: > I don't even plan on subscribing myself. I just wanted to get > the traffic off of cypherpunks. Fair enough. You can remove the list, as far as I'm concerned. I don't give a damn about posting copyrighted content; no point posting to a closed-archive list if you've got cold feet. I can hide that information on my own hard drive as well. > Back when I first joined this list, cypherpunks where > known for making news, not reading it. I recognized some The world has moved on since, unfortunately. Wake up, and smell the Kafka. > addresses posting here recently from other lists that may > suggest a revival is possible if we can clean things up a > bit. Yeah, you and John Galt. > For the most part, the only people who subscribed to the > new list are the people who tend to forward news > announcements. There seems to be very few consumers Which part of "collaborative news filtering" you don't understand? Ideally, one should a producer and consumer in one person. Alas, most people are passive slobs, so it takes a lot of them to become critical. > (4 out of 7 subscribers on the new list - there's 8 total > so far, one person subscribed twice). Transhumantech has 300 subscribers. Five of them are active posters. I consider the list a success, and read it daily. It took several years to get there. Cypherpunk agenda is supposed to be a _widely_ held secret. -- Eugen* Leitl http://leitl.org";>leitl __ ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144http://www.leitl.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE http://moleculardevices.org http://nanomachines.net [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]
Re: cpunk-like meeting report
On Dec 16, 2003, at 7:50 AM, V Alex Brennen wrote: Tim May wrote: On Dec 14, 2003, at 6:07 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I've been admiring your and Tim's contributions, and I was wondering if either of you were planning to subscribe to the (new) news list. http://lists.cryptnet.net/mailman/listinfo/cpunx-news No, we don't need a "cpunx-news" list. This is what Google and the ability to see hundreds of various lists and sites is for. I don't even plan on subscribing myself. I just wanted to get the traffic off of cypherpunks. Back when I first joined this list, cypherpunks where known for making news, not reading it. I recognized some addresses posting here recently from other lists that may suggest a revival is possible if we can clean things up a bit. For the most part, the only people who subscribed to the new list are the people who tend to forward news announcements. There seems to be very few consumers (4 out of 7 subscribers on the new list - there's 8 total so far, one person subscribed twice). This figures. And I doubt subscriptions will ever climb much higher. We've heard similar clamorings for "chat" and "technical" and "announcement" sub-lists many times in the past. Nevermind that the main list is not terribly high-volume. Nevermind that sub-lists tends to wither away. (As when a relatively small city like Monterey gets monterey.config, monterey.events, monterey.forsale, monterey.general, and monterey.test, all of which are nearly empty or filled only with Usenet spam. But, hey, someone thought that what Monterey needed to boost traffic was a bunch of newsgroups. Didn't happen, the traffic, that is.) As for Cypherpunks, this was done. Several Usenet newsgroups, which are perfectly fine for news announcements, were created by someone (no doubt long-since gone on to other projects). Here they are: alt.cypherpunks alt.cypherpunks.announce alt.cypherpunks.social alt.cypherpunks.technical But, hey, I hope the subscribers to the new list send their dumpings there. --Tim May "I think the root of the problem is that we tend to organize ourselves into tribes. Then people in the tribe are our friends, and people outside are our enemies. I think it happens like this: Someone uses Perl, and likes it, and then they use it some more. But then something strange happens. They start to identify themselves with Perl, as if Perl were part of their body, or vice versa. They're part of the Big Perl Tribe. They want other people to join the Tribe. If they meet someone who doesn't like Perl, it's an insult to the Tribe and a personal affront to them." --Mark Dominus, "Why I Hate Advocacy," 2000
Re: cpunk-like meeting report
Tim May wrote: On Dec 14, 2003, at 6:07 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I've been admiring your and Tim's contributions, and I was wondering if either of you were planning to subscribe to the (new) news list. http://lists.cryptnet.net/mailman/listinfo/cpunx-news No, we don't need a "cpunx-news" list. This is what Google and the ability to see hundreds of various lists and sites is for. I don't even plan on subscribing myself. I just wanted to get the traffic off of cypherpunks. Back when I first joined this list, cypherpunks where known for making news, not reading it. I recognized some addresses posting here recently from other lists that may suggest a revival is possible if we can clean things up a bit. For the most part, the only people who subscribed to the new list are the people who tend to forward news announcements. There seems to be very few consumers (4 out of 7 subscribers on the new list - there's 8 total so far, one person subscribed twice). - VAB -- V. Alex Brennen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.cryptnet.net/people/vab/ F A R B E Y O N D D R I V E N !
Re: cpunk-like meeting report
At 09:57 PM 12/14/03 -0800, Morlock Elloi wrote: >> Be sure and check the archive before posting. It is still small. > >Cookies, "members only" archive access. Bad deal. Will not happen. Very few >consumers here. But look how many IP addresses he got from members checking it out!
Re: cpunk-like meeting report
On Sun, Dec 14, 2003 at 09:57:09PM -0800, Morlock Elloi wrote: > > http://lists.cryptnet.net/mailman/listinfo/cpunx-news > > > > Be sure and check the archive before posting. It is still small. > > Cookies, "members only" archive access. Bad deal. Will not happen. Very few > consumers here. "To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the cpunx-news Archives. The current archive is only available to the list members." No good. Please fix. -- Eugen* Leitl http://leitl.org";>leitl __ ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144http://www.leitl.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE http://moleculardevices.org http://nanomachines.net [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]
Re: cpunk-like meeting report
On Sun, Dec 14, 2003 at 08:00:57PM -0800, Tim May wrote: > Some people think spinning off new lists whenever they get interested > in some area is interesting. Most of these lists fail for obvious There's a specific niche of high-volume topical news lists. They're designed to distribute the mining the news sources load. Life's too short for everybody to read every news source just to learn what's new in a specific area. They can take a while to get started, but once they go critical they can become a valuable resource. My problem with cpunx-news is that I've found relying on other people for critical infrastructure a mistake. > reasons. Sometimes a famous person, especially Net famous, creates a > vanity list. Hence the "Interesting People" vanity list. This trend > seems to be giving way to Blogs, however, as the various > net.personalities realize that what they really want is a forum for > blogging their message to an attentive audience. -- Eugen* Leitl http://leitl.org";>leitl __ ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144http://www.leitl.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE http://moleculardevices.org http://nanomachines.net [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]
Re: cpunk-like meeting report
Eugen Leitl wrote: On Sun, Dec 14, 2003 at 09:57:09PM -0800, Morlock Elloi wrote: http://lists.cryptnet.net/mailman/listinfo/cpunx-news Be sure and check the archive before posting. It is still small. Cookies, "members only" archive access. Bad deal. Will not happen. Very few consumers here. "To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the cpunx-news Archives. The current archive is only available to the list members." No good. Please fix. Archive it your selfs you fucking wankers. Damn. Since when can cypherpunks not even handle setting up a public mailing list archive? If that's beyond you, you probably don't belong on the cypherpunks list. What do you need a government assistance program? Some public service announcements? A welfare sponsored skills training program? Here's the hand out you're looking for: http://www.mail-archive.com/faq.html#newlist - VAB
Re: cpunk-like meeting report
On Sun, Dec 14, 2003 at 06:36:12PM -0800, Tim May wrote: > No, we don't need a "cpunx-news" list. This is what Google and the > ability to see hundreds of various lists and sites is for. This is a bogus statement. As long as I can't use a single keyword to make Google's news alerts topical, and _full text_ a search engine is rather useless. > "News" lists tend strongly to be just dumping grounds for crap from > other lists. The point is that you don't have to subscribe to 20-odd email lists, which have about 5% relevance each. Life's too short for that. People are the best filters, and with a handful of sustained contributors the list becomes a valuable resource. > I failed the entrance exam for "Interesting People," which is fine, for > obvious reasons. Case in point: most of IP list traffic is garbage from a cypherpunk point of view. Let one list subscriber read it, and filter relevant bits to the newsticker. If it's a steaming pile of crap for Tim May it doesn't mean it's useless for everybody else. -- Eugen* Leitl http://leitl.org";>leitl __ ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144http://www.leitl.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE http://moleculardevices.org http://nanomachines.net [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]
Re: cpunk-like meeting report
On Mon, Dec 15, 2003 at 08:52:52AM -0500, V Alex Brennen wrote:
> Archive it your selfs you fucking wankers. Damn. Since when
That was I was going to do before you volunteered to host the lists.
Thanks for letting me know that the offer has been withdrawn.
I guess I don't need another illustration as to why free is too expensive.
> can cypherpunks not even handle setting up a public mailing
> list archive? If that's beyond you, you probably don't
If you think debugging SuSE + Postfix + Mailman ("Failure to exec script.
WANTED gid 65534, GOT gid 8." <-- none of the standard fixes work) is high on
my priority list, you're on crack.
> belong on the cypherpunks list.
>
> What do you need a government assistance program? Some public
> service announcements? A welfare sponsored skills training
> program?
>
> Here's the hand out you're looking for:
>
> http://www.mail-archive.com/faq.html#newlist
A redundant archive is a good idea. Thanks.
-- Eugen* Leitl http://leitl.org";>leitl
__
ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144http://www.leitl.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
http://moleculardevices.org http://nanomachines.net
[demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]
Re: cpunk-like meeting report
> http://lists.cryptnet.net/mailman/listinfo/cpunx-news > > Be sure and check the archive before posting. It is still small. Cookies, "members only" archive access. Bad deal. Will not happen. Very few consumers here. = end (of original message) Y-a*h*o-o (yes, they scan for this) spam follows: __ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/
Re: cpunk-like meeting report
Hi, I've been admiring your and Tim's contributions, and I was wondering if either of you were planning to subscribe to the (new) news list. http://lists.cryptnet.net/mailman/listinfo/cpunx-news Be sure and check the archive before posting. It is still small. Otherwise, if anyone could recommend additional good sources for cypherpunk-related news, I'd be very grateful, because I don't feel right about cross-posting news items to cypherpunks list. I'm already subscribed to the Cryptome rdf channel, Politech, and GNU-Darwin of course. I don't think I'm interesting enough for Interesting People ;-}. Please feel free to write back to me on- or off-list for whatever reason you like. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ On 14 Dec, Major Variola (ret.) wrote: > > I went to a meeting of the Irvine Underground (irvineunderground.org) > which reminded me of late-90s SF CP meatings. Although the overall > tech level was probably lower and social implications weren't a big > topic. > Also, at this meeting, there were far more cameras or videocams than > were present (at least overtly :-) at the few CP meats I attended. > However, > nyms were used more than they were (overtly :-) at CP meatings; this may > > have been due to a "introduce yourself" poll. The IU > group seems to be a bit more social, going to movies for instance, than > the > topic-only CPs were. The meeting was held in a room at an IHOP (pancake > restaurant > for furriners) > > The exploit mentioned in > http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2003-12-11-microsoft2_x.htm > was demonstrated, we were debriefed on the recent LA 802.11b War Flying > mission > (and the EMI resistance of 1960's era single-engine airplane instruments > :-). > Toorcon organizers were present. About 30+ people > were there, with what appeared to me to be a bimodal distribution of > skills, > some advanced, some admitted unix newbies, etc. There was even > recreational > lock picking. A WiFi LAN, net connectivity through someone's cell phone > eventually. > A video projector. > > I didn't notice persons with exceptional Euler numbers, > though black was definately the color of choice for garments. Ages > appeared > well distributed from undergrad to hoary. One gent noticed a certain > TLA on my > cypherpunks T-shirt and admitted that he had once worked in Ft Meade, > though > he wouldn't say on what :-) > -- Visit proclus realm! http://proclus.tripod.com/ -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C UBOULI$ P+ L+++() E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e h--- r+++ y --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type APPLICATION/pgp-signature]
Re: cpunk-like meeting report
On Dec 14, 2003, at 6:07 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I've been admiring your and Tim's contributions, and I was wondering if either of you were planning to subscribe to the (new) news list. http://lists.cryptnet.net/mailman/listinfo/cpunx-news Be sure and check the archive before posting. It is still small. No, we don't need a "cpunx-news" list. This is what Google and the ability to see hundreds of various lists and sites is for. "News" lists tend strongly to be just dumping grounds for crap from other lists. Otherwise, if anyone could recommend additional good sources for cypherpunk-related news, I'd be very grateful, because I don't feel right about cross-posting news items to cypherpunks list. I'm already subscribed to the Cryptome rdf channel, Politech, and GNU-Darwin of course. I don't think I'm interesting enough for Interesting People ;-}. I failed the entrance exam for "Interesting People," which is fine, for obvious reasons. --Tim May
Re: cpunk-like meeting report
On 14 Dec, Tim May wrote: > No, we don't need a "cpunx-news" list. This is what Google and the > ability to see hundreds of various lists and sites is for. > > "News" lists tend strongly to be just dumping grounds for crap from > other lists. Yea, and I'll admit that I'm a junky, which is why I made the following pages... http://www.gnu-darwin.org/update.html http://www.gnu-darwin.org/applelists.html More... info., Must have ... more... >> Otherwise, if anyone could recommend additional good sources for >> cypherpunk-related news, I'd be very grateful, because I don't feel >> right about cross-posting news items to cypherpunks list. I'm already >> subscribed to the Cryptome rdf channel, Politech, and GNU-Darwin of >> course. I don't think I'm interesting enough for Interesting >> People ;-}. > > I failed the entrance exam for "Interesting People," which is fine, for > obvious reasons. ROFL! Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://proclus.tripod.com/ -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C UBOULI$ P+ L+++() E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e h--- r+++ y --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type APPLICATION/pgp-signature]
Re: cpunk-like meeting report
On Dec 14, 2003, at 6:53 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 14 Dec, Tim May wrote: No, we don't need a "cpunx-news" list. This is what Google and the ability to see hundreds of various lists and sites is for. "News" lists tend strongly to be just dumping grounds for crap from other lists. Yea, and I'll admit that I'm a junky, which is why I made the following pages... http://www.gnu-darwin.org/update.html http://www.gnu-darwin.org/applelists.html More... info., Must have ... more... Lie down and just resist the temptation. The world already has a dozen crypto/cyber rights mailing lists, probably more. And many '"e$", "digibucks," "digital bearer settlement," and "cybercurrency" types of list just from one single person...who also cross-posts to Cypherpunks. I had a friend who created a new high technology company whenever he got bored. Of course, these were not _real_ high tech companies, with actual products and actual profits. Rather, they were "ventures," things that gave him a new business card, "Orion X. Altschluss, President, Plutonic Transgenics, Inc." A few months later, "Director, Corporate Relations, the Galt Foundation." Some people think spinning off new lists whenever they get interested in some area is interesting. Most of these lists fail for obvious reasons. Sometimes a famous person, especially Net famous, creates a vanity list. Hence the "Interesting People" vanity list. This trend seems to be giving way to Blogs, however, as the various net.personalities realize that what they really want is a forum for blogging their message to an attentive audience. I have done nearly all of my writing for Cypherpunks since 1992. I have watched Lewispunks, Perrypunks, various e-rights and digidollars and Geodesic Singularity Lists arise and do whatever they do after they arise. I have joined none of the varous other lists (which are usually "with permission of owner" lists--fuck that). So now we have someone calling himself "Proclus," who has not contributed anything memorable to Cypherpunks, inviting Cypherpunks to join his new "cpunx-news" list. Yawn. Have fun. --Tim May #1. Sanhedrin 59a: "Murdering Goyim (Gentiles) is like killing a wild animal." #2. Aboda Sarah 37a: "A Gentile girl who is three years old can be violated." #3. Yebamoth 11b: "Sexual intercourse with a little girl is permitted if she is three years of age." #4. Abodah Zara 26b: "Even the best of the Gentiles should be killed." #5. Yebamoth 98a: "All gentile children are animals." #6. Schulchan Aruch, Johre Deah, 122: "A Jew is forbidden to drink from a glass of wine which a Gentile has touched, because the touch has made the wine unclean." #7. Baba Necia 114, 6: "The Jews are human beings, but the nations of the world are not human beings but beasts."
cpunk-like meeting report
I went to a meeting of the Irvine Underground (irvineunderground.org) which reminded me of late-90s SF CP meatings. Although the overall tech level was probably lower and social implications weren't a big topic. Also, at this meeting, there were far more cameras or videocams than were present (at least overtly :-) at the few CP meats I attended. However, nyms were used more than they were (overtly :-) at CP meatings; this may have been due to a "introduce yourself" poll. The IU group seems to be a bit more social, going to movies for instance, than the topic-only CPs were. The meeting was held in a room at an IHOP (pancake restaurant for furriners) The exploit mentioned in http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2003-12-11-microsoft2_x.htm was demonstrated, we were debriefed on the recent LA 802.11b War Flying mission (and the EMI resistance of 1960's era single-engine airplane instruments :-). Toorcon organizers were present. About 30+ people were there, with what appeared to me to be a bimodal distribution of skills, some advanced, some admitted unix newbies, etc. There was even recreational lock picking. A WiFi LAN, net connectivity through someone's cell phone eventually. A video projector. I didn't notice persons with exceptional Euler numbers, though black was definately the color of choice for garments. Ages appeared well distributed from undergrad to hoary. One gent noticed a certain TLA on my cypherpunks T-shirt and admitted that he had once worked in Ft Meade, though he wouldn't say on what :-)
