Re: [darktable-user] Weird colors and difficult noise reduction compared to LightRoom or RawTherapee

[Robert Krawitz]

On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 21:04:03 +0100, Saint Germain wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 18:44:30 +0100, Saint Germain 
> wrote :
>
>> On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 15:14:02 +1100, Gary Parkinson
>>  wrote :
>> 
>> > Try using the Darktable style "Denoise_chinese"
>> > 
>> > https://dtstyle.net/
>> > 
>> 
>> This is actually quite nice !
>> Here is the result I have got without touching anything:
>> ttp://dl.free.fr/jisaMUzIg
>> 
>> We still have a slight luminance problem, but I think we are on the
>> right track.
>> 
>> Thanks a lot
>
> I managed to get (without too much effort) a quite good result about
> the noise (xmp+jpg):
> http://dl.free.fr/sn4ZBHVlY
> http://dl.free.fr/b1UIskws2
>
> Combination of "Denoise_chinese" + "RAW denoise".
>
> It seems that it is even slightly better than LightRoom and
> RawTherapee !
>
> Now I have to correct the color and exposure (the color seems to be OK
> now but the image is too dark, but when I increase the exposure, the
> colors become wrong, something strange is going on).

I still get better results with RawTherapee than with Denoise_chinese
+ RAW denoise (this is current git with both).  And of course RAW
denoise won't work on JPEGs at all.

Compare:

https://rlk.smugmug.com/Photography/DarktableRawTherapee/i-9qmRW2X
(darktable, Denoise_chinese)

https://rlk.smugmug.com/Photography/DarktableRawTherapee/i-Nkfjxq6
(darktable, Denoise_chinese + raw denoise)

https://rlk.smugmug.com/Photography/DarktableRawTherapee/i-D759Zr8
(rawtherapee, parameters as specified in the caption)

Note in both photos processed with darktable that there's a strong
yellow cast in the skintone shadows, under her hair.  That color cast
is completely absent in the shot processed with rawtherapee.

Rawtherapee with default chrominance noise reduction alone -- no other
processing -- does have the usual grain-type noise, but the
chrominance component is completely cleaned up with no color cast or
shift.  Luminance takes a bit more work, but it's not that hard to get
smooth tones while retaining detail.  I have not been able to get
anywhere close to that with darktable; I'd really like to, since I
otherwise prefer it.
-- 
Robert Krawitz 

***  MIT Engineers   A Proud Tradition   http://mitathletics.com  ***
Member of the League for Programming Freedom  --  http://ProgFree.org
Project lead for Gutenprint   --http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net

"Linux doesn't dictate how I work, I dictate how Linux works."
--Eric Crampton

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Re: [darktable-user] Weird colors and difficult noise reduction compared to LightRoom or RawTherapee

[Saint Germain]

On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 13:47:31 -0800, "I. Ivanov" 
wrote :

> Denoise_chinese is very impressive, thank you!
> 
> I tried on 6400 ISO image and it works better than anything I used
> before.
> 

What is also surprising is that it doesn't use the noise profile at
all...

However it doesn't work as well on all pictures.
I've tried on another high iso picture and this time the result is
clearly inferior to LightRoom/RawTherapee.

The advantage of LightRoom/RawTherapee is that you have only 2 sliders
to control the denoise, so it's quite easy to adapt the denoise to the
picture

With denoise_chinese, it's much more complicated to tweak the
parameters.

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Re: [darktable-user] Weird colors and difficult noise reduction compared to LightRoom or RawTherapee

[I. Ivanov]

Denoise_chinese is very impressive, thank you!

I tried on 6400 ISO image and it works better than anything I used before.

Regards,

B


On 2016-12-08 12:04 PM, Saint Germain wrote:

On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 18:44:30 +0100, Saint Germain 
wrote :


On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 15:14:02 +1100, Gary Parkinson
 wrote :


Try using the Darktable style "Denoise_chinese"

https://dtstyle.net/


This is actually quite nice !
Here is the result I have got without touching anything:
ttp://dl.free.fr/jisaMUzIg

We still have a slight luminance problem, but I think we are on the
right track.

Thanks a lot

I managed to get (without too much effort) a quite good result about
the noise (xmp+jpg):
http://dl.free.fr/sn4ZBHVlY
http://dl.free.fr/b1UIskws2

Combination of "Denoise_chinese" + "RAW denoise".

It seems that it is even slightly better than LightRoom and
RawTherapee !

Now I have to correct the color and exposure (the color seems to be OK
now but the image is too dark, but when I increase the exposure, the
colors become wrong, something strange is going on).

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Re: [darktable-user] Weird colors and difficult noise reduction compared to LightRoom or RawTherapee

[Saint Germain]

On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 18:44:30 +0100, Saint Germain 
wrote :

> On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 15:14:02 +1100, Gary Parkinson
>  wrote :
> 
> > Try using the Darktable style "Denoise_chinese"
> > 
> > https://dtstyle.net/
> > 
> 
> This is actually quite nice !
> Here is the result I have got without touching anything:
> ttp://dl.free.fr/jisaMUzIg
> 
> We still have a slight luminance problem, but I think we are on the
> right track.
> 
> Thanks a lot

I managed to get (without too much effort) a quite good result about
the noise (xmp+jpg):
http://dl.free.fr/sn4ZBHVlY
http://dl.free.fr/b1UIskws2

Combination of "Denoise_chinese" + "RAW denoise".

It seems that it is even slightly better than LightRoom and
RawTherapee !

Now I have to correct the color and exposure (the color seems to be OK
now but the image is too dark, but when I increase the exposure, the
colors become wrong, something strange is going on).

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Re: [darktable-user] Weird colors and difficult noise reduction compared to LightRoom or RawTherapee

[Saint Germain]

I received a png.xmp file ?
Have you started from the raw (.srw) file ?
If yes I think it should be a .srw.xmp file...

Except if there is something I have misunderstood ?

On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 10:33:48 -0800, Jack Bowling  wrote :

> As requested. here is an xmp of a screenshot of a 100% view of the 
> magazine image of the two women. Nothing complex. Image itself not 
> attached due to size. If you wish, I could send it offlist.
> 
> Jack
> 
> 
> On 12/08/2016 09:18 AM, Saint Germain wrote:
> > Indeed lensfun doesn't have this lens in its database yet.
> > After the noise profile, it's my next task to create the entry for
> > this particular lens.
> >
> > Can you provide the xmp of your modifications to see exactly what
> > you have done ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to
> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

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Re: [darktable-user] Weird colors and difficult noise reduction compared to LightRoom or RawTherapee

[Jack Bowling]

As requested. here is an xmp of a screenshot of a 100% view of the 
magazine image of the two women. Nothing complex. Image itself not 
attached due to size. If you wish, I could send it offlist.


Jack


On 12/08/2016 09:18 AM, Saint Germain wrote:

Indeed lensfun doesn't have this lens in its database yet.
After the noise profile, it's my next task to create the entry for this
particular lens.

Can you provide the xmp of your modifications to see exactly what you
have done ?





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 http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#;>
  http://ns.adobe.com/xap/1.0/;
xmlns:xmpMM="http://ns.adobe.com/xap/1.0/mm/;
xmlns:darktable="http://darktable.sf.net/;
   xmp:Rating="1"
   xmpMM:DerivedFrom="Screenshot from 2016-12-07 23-30-52.png"
   darktable:xmp_version="1"
   darktable:raw_params="0"
   darktable:auto_presets_applied="1"
   darktable:history_end="1">
   

   
   

   
   

   
   

   
   

   
   

   
   

   
   

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Re: [darktable-user] Weird colors and difficult noise reduction compared to LightRoom or RawTherapee

[Stéphane Gourichon]

Le 08/12/2016 à 17:55, Tim Rolph a écrit :

On Thursday 08 Dec 2016 08:13:27 Robert Krawitz wrote:

On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 12:08:52 +0100, =?UTF-8?Q?St=c3=a9phane_Gourichon?=

wrote:

Here's the parameter dump:
* disable base curve
* disable profiled denoise
* RAW noise reduction, default parameters

RAW noise reduction, unfortunately, won't help in my case, since my
original is a JPEG.  Shooting RAW isn't very practical at a game where
I might shoot 2500 frames.

https://rlk.smugmug.com/Photography/DarktableRawTherapee/
https://rlk.smugmug.com/Sports/Basketball/MIT-SarLaw-mbb-20161126/i-chq2xjG/
A

Try NeatImage it's the best I have  found at de-noising non raw images and
its available as a standalone on linux for free. It also makes  use of opencl
/ cuda capabilities so it's quick.


Regarding NeatImage, apparently a Dutch company : 
https://ni.neatvideo.com/ says "the most advanced noise reduction 
algorithms in the industry."


https://ni.neatvideo.com/overview/how-does-it-work links to 
https://ni.neatvideo.com/download/noise-profiles although it looks like 
there are less profiles than in darktable (well, for Nikon at least). 
Strange and heavy format.



Speaking of good non-free noise reduction software, how about DXO Optics 
Pro, then? (Not for Linux, though).


I've seen impressive demos of their PRIME denoiser in the past (and the 
denoiser before PRIME). Explanations on the current site boil down like 
profiled non-local means, so the secret sauce must be elsewhere? 
http://www.dxo.com/us/photography/photo-software/dxo-opticspro/features/prime




--
Stéphane Gourichon


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Re: [darktable-user] Weird colors and difficult noise reduction compared to LightRoom or RawTherapee

[Saint Germain]

Hi,

I am really not sure to be able to duplicate what you said.
Could you provide perhaps an example (RAW+xmp) ?

Thanks a lot

On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 07:10:28 +0100, KOVÁCS István
 wrote :

> Hi,
> (Second attempt, sorry if you get a duplicate.)
> 
> For very high ISO, i usually enable colour smoothing under demosaic
> settings, apply profiled denoising for colours (wavelet mode with
> colour blending mode, heavy denoising settings), avoid all
> sharpening, and, if the situation is really bad, apply a pinch of raw
> denoising. Still, I find that RawTherapee is better in this respect.
> Sometimes I skip denoising in darktable and use NoiseNinja, an old
> commercial denoising app that has a Linux version (BTW, PictureCode,
> developers of NoiseNinja, now produce a nice little raw developer
> called PhotoNinja, which you can get to run under wine).
> 
> Regarding colours, darktable often ships with two profiles for a
> camera, called standard and enhanced. You can try both, and if you
> don't like either, you can profile your camera, or try RawStudio's
> profiles (if they have one). Expect a drop in processing speed with
> RawStudio profiles, though.
> 
> Kofa
> 
> On 8 Dec 2016 00:45, "Saint Germain"  wrote:
> 
> > Hello,
> >
> > I just bought a Samsung NX1 and would like to use Darktable to
> > process the RAW (SRW).
> >
> > However I really tried but I couldn't manage to get correct colors
> > or to have a good noise reduction in high iso situation (low light).
> >
> > I've tried LightRoom and RawTherapee and I managed (without knowing
> > these softwares) to get quite good results in under 5-10 minutes.
> > So far I think I've spent several hours with Darktable...
> >
> > I would really like to stay with Darktable (as I find the interface
> > quite pleasant and it offers a lot of useful features) but I really
> > need to have good colors and good noise reduction (at least
> > comparable to LR and RT) without too much tinkering.
> >
> > From what I have heard, it seems that Darktable noise reduction is
> > very powerful and actually superior to LR or RT. Basic noise
> > reduction in LR or RT is very simple : 2 sliders and that's it
> > (Luminance and Details). However it is quite effective, and I
> > haven't been able to do better with Darktable (and it took me much
> > more time, I even made a noise profile !).
> >
> > Perhaps am I doing something wrong ?
> > Can someone guide me or show me how to proceed ?
> >
> > Original JPEG + RAW
> > http://dl.free.fr/fBpM8C6I1
> > http://dl.free.fr/jB13bvffN
> >
> > Rawtherapee (JPEG + pp3)
> > http://dl.free.fr/vT4rAtm5O
> > http://dl.free.fr/fJEcA3gH9
> >
> > Lightroom (JPEG)
> > http://dl.free.fr/nEEcDqtq0
> >
> > Darktable Noise profile
> > http://dl.free.fr/sZ8hCADDw
> >
> > Darktable (JPEG + xmp)
> > http://dl.free.fr/fJQSonH7n
> > http://dl.free.fr/knQbw4QMl
> >
> > Thanks a lot in advance,
> > 
> > 
> > darktable user mailing list
> > to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscribe@
> > lists.darktable.org
> >
> >
> 
> 
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to
> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

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Re: [darktable-user] Weird colors and difficult noise reduction compared to LightRoom or RawTherapee

[Saint Germain]

On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 15:14:02 +1100, Gary Parkinson
 wrote :

> Try using the Darktable style "Denoise_chinese"
> 
> https://dtstyle.net/
> 

This is actually quite nice !
Here is the result I have got without touching anything:
ttp://dl.free.fr/jisaMUzIg

We still have a slight luminance problem, but I think we are on the
right track.

Thanks a lot

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Re: [darktable-user] Weird colors and difficult noise reduction compared to LightRoom or RawTherapee

[Saint Germain]

Indeed lensfun doesn't have this lens in its database yet.
After the noise profile, it's my next task to create the entry for this
particular lens.

Can you provide the xmp of your modifications to see exactly what you
have done ?

Thanks

On Wed, 7 Dec 2016 23:54:08 -0800, Jack Bowling  wrote :

> I got usable results on the old woman/young woman poster shot by
> using:
> 
> 1) two invocations of the equalizer - one using the denoise preset
> but increased to a mix of 1.25, and the other using the sharpness
> preset with a mix of 1.0
> 
> 2) very slight touch of raw denoise
> 
> 3) enabled defringe module at defaults
> 
> 4) increased sharpen module (unsharp mask) a touch.
> 
> I note the lens correction module does nothing for this image despite 
> the obvious barrel distortion. I suppose lensfun does not support
> this lens? One thing I did not do is raise the exposure which would
> only increase the noise substantially.
> 
> Having said all that, everybody has their own threshold of detail
> versus smoothing when denoising.
> 
> Jack
> 
> 
> On 12/07/2016 10:10 PM, KOVÁCS István wrote:
> > Hi,
> > (Second attempt, sorry if you get a duplicate.)
> >
> > For very high ISO, i usually enable colour smoothing under demosaic
> > settings, apply profiled denoising for colours (wavelet mode with
> > colour blending mode, heavy denoising settings), avoid all
> > sharpening, and, if the situation is really bad, apply a pinch of
> > raw denoising. Still, I find that RawTherapee is better in this
> > respect. Sometimes I skip denoising in darktable and use
> > NoiseNinja, an old commercial denoising app that has a Linux
> > version (BTW, PictureCode, developers of NoiseNinja, now produce a
> > nice little raw developer called PhotoNinja, which you can get to
> > run under wine).
> >
> > Regarding colours, darktable often ships with two profiles for a
> > camera, called standard and enhanced. You can try both, and if you
> > don't like either, you can profile your camera, or try RawStudio's
> > profiles (if they have one). Expect a drop in processing speed with
> > RawStudio profiles, though.
> >
> > Kofa
> >
> > On 8 Dec 2016 00:45, "Saint Germain"  > > wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I just bought a Samsung NX1 and would like to use Darktable to
> > process the RAW (SRW).
> >
> > However I really tried but I couldn't manage to get correct
> > colors or to have a good noise reduction in high iso situation (low
> > light).
> >
> > I've tried LightRoom and RawTherapee and I managed (without
> > knowing these softwares) to get quite good results in under 5-10
> > minutes. So far I think I've spent several hours with Darktable...
> >
> > I would really like to stay with Darktable (as I find the
> > interface quite pleasant and it offers a lot of useful features)
> > but I really need to have good colors and good noise reduction (at
> > least comparable to LR and RT) without too much tinkering.
> >
> > >From what I have heard, it seems that Darktable noise
> > >reduction is
> > very powerful and actually superior to LR or RT. Basic noise
> > reduction in LR or RT is very simple : 2 sliders and that's it
> > (Luminance and Details). However it is quite effective, and I
> > haven't been able to do better with Darktable (and it took me much
> > more time, I even made a noise profile !).
> >
> > Perhaps am I doing something wrong ?
> > Can someone guide me or show me how to proceed ?
> >
> > Original JPEG + RAW
> > http://dl.free.fr/fBpM8C6I1
> > http://dl.free.fr/jB13bvffN
> >
> > Rawtherapee (JPEG + pp3)
> > http://dl.free.fr/vT4rAtm5O
> > http://dl.free.fr/fJEcA3gH9
> >
> > Lightroom (JPEG)
> > http://dl.free.fr/nEEcDqtq0
> >
> > Darktable Noise profile
> > http://dl.free.fr/sZ8hCADDw
> >
> > Darktable (JPEG + xmp)
> > http://dl.free.fr/fJQSonH7n
> > http://dl.free.fr/knQbw4QMl
> >
> > Thanks a lot in advance,
> > 
> > 
> > darktable user mailing list
> > to unsubscribe send a mail to
> > darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
> > 
> >
> >
> > 
> > darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to
> > darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
> 
> 
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to
> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
> 

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Re: [darktable-user] Weird colors and difficult noise reduction compared to LightRoom or RawTherapee

[Saint Germain]

On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 13:28:22 +0100, johannes hanika 
wrote :

> hi pascal,
> 
> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 11:20 AM, Pascal Obry  wrote:
> > Jo,
> >
> > The profile (.json) is provided by the author in its original
> > message.
> 
> oh, thanks, i did indeed miss that. but it only contains a profile for
> iso 25600? not for the 3200 the shot was taken at?
> 

Indeed I uploaded a false noise profile, here is the correct one:
http://dl.free.fr/bNDlCNHWH

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Re: [darktable-user] Weird colors and difficult noise reduction compared to LightRoom or RawTherapee

[Tim Rolph]

On Thursday 08 Dec 2016 08:13:27 Robert Krawitz wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 12:08:52 +0100, =?UTF-8?Q?St=c3=a9phane_Gourichon?= 
wrote:
> > Here's the parameter dump:
> > * disable base curve
> > * disable profiled denoise
> > * RAW noise reduction, default parameters
> 
> RAW noise reduction, unfortunately, won't help in my case, since my
> original is a JPEG.  Shooting RAW isn't very practical at a game where
> I might shoot 2500 frames.
> 
> https://rlk.smugmug.com/Photography/DarktableRawTherapee/
> https://rlk.smugmug.com/Sports/Basketball/MIT-SarLaw-mbb-20161126/i-chq2xjG/
> A
Try NeatImage it's the best I have  found at de-noising non raw images and  
its available as a standalone on linux for free. It also makes  use of opencl 
/ cuda capabilities so it's quick.

Tim.

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Re: [darktable-user] Weird colors and difficult noise reduction compared to LightRoom or RawTherapee

[Robert Krawitz]

On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 16:20:47 +0300, Roman Lebedev wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 4:13 PM, Robert Krawitz  wrote:
>> On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 12:08:52 +0100, =?UTF-8?Q?St=c3=a9phane_Gourichon?= wrote:
>>> Here's the parameter dump:
>>> * disable base curve
>>> * disable profiled denoise
>>> * RAW noise reduction, default parameters
>
>> RAW noise reduction, unfortunately, won't help in my case, since my
>> original is a JPEG.  Shooting RAW isn't very practical at a game where
>> I might shoot 2500 frames.
>
> I'm sorry to say, but i'm not sure one can expect to be able to do any
> meaningful
> noise correction, or any significant changes at all, to jpeg.
> There is just no data in jpeg, it's 8-bit LDR...

I disagree.  Compare the three images in the gallery below (original,
Darktable, RawTherapee).

>> https://rlk.smugmug.com/Photography/DarktableRawTherapee/
-- 
Robert Krawitz 

***  MIT Engineers   A Proud Tradition   http://mitathletics.com  ***
Member of the League for Programming Freedom  --  http://ProgFree.org
Project lead for Gutenprint   --http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net

"Linux doesn't dictate how I work, I dictate how Linux works."
--Eric Crampton

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Re: [darktable-user] Weird colors and difficult noise reduction compared to LightRoom or RawTherapee

[Roman Lebedev]

On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 4:13 PM, Robert Krawitz  wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 12:08:52 +0100, =?UTF-8?Q?St=c3=a9phane_Gourichon?= wrote:
>> Here's the parameter dump:
>> * disable base curve
>> * disable profiled denoise
>> * RAW noise reduction, default parameters

> RAW noise reduction, unfortunately, won't help in my case, since my
> original is a JPEG.  Shooting RAW isn't very practical at a game where
> I might shoot 2500 frames.

I'm sorry to say, but i'm not sure one can expect to be able to do any
meaningful
noise correction, or any significant changes at all, to jpeg.
There is just no data in jpeg, it's 8-bit LDR...

> https://rlk.smugmug.com/Photography/DarktableRawTherapee/
> https://rlk.smugmug.com/Sports/Basketball/MIT-SarLaw-mbb-20161126/i-chq2xjG/A
> --
> Robert Krawitz 
Roman.

> ***  MIT Engineers   A Proud Tradition   http://mitathletics.com  ***
> Member of the League for Programming Freedom  --  http://ProgFree.org
> Project lead for Gutenprint   --http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net
>
> "Linux doesn't dictate how I work, I dictate how Linux works."
> --Eric Crampton
> 
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>

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Re: [darktable-user] Weird colors and difficult noise reduction compared to LightRoom or RawTherapee

[Robert Krawitz]

On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 12:08:52 +0100, =?UTF-8?Q?St=c3=a9phane_Gourichon?= wrote:
> Here's the parameter dump:
> * disable base curve
> * disable profiled denoise
> * RAW noise reduction, default parameters

RAW noise reduction, unfortunately, won't help in my case, since my
original is a JPEG.  Shooting RAW isn't very practical at a game where
I might shoot 2500 frames.

https://rlk.smugmug.com/Photography/DarktableRawTherapee/
https://rlk.smugmug.com/Sports/Basketball/MIT-SarLaw-mbb-20161126/i-chq2xjG/A
-- 
Robert Krawitz 

***  MIT Engineers   A Proud Tradition   http://mitathletics.com  ***
Member of the League for Programming Freedom  --  http://ProgFree.org
Project lead for Gutenprint   --http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net

"Linux doesn't dictate how I work, I dictate how Linux works."
--Eric Crampton

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Re: [darktable-user] Weird colors and difficult noise reduction compared to LightRoom or RawTherapee

[johannes hanika]

hi pascal,

On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 11:20 AM, Pascal Obry  wrote:
> Jo,
>
> The profile (.json) is provided by the author in its original message.

oh, thanks, i did indeed miss that. but it only contains a profile for
iso 25600? not for the 3200 the shot was taken at?

> Fact is darktable is not has good has Lightroom indeed (my recollection is
> that darktable was as good as Lr 3.x, but since Lr 4.x a new engine was
> developped and the noise reduction gives very good result).

can't tell, but i'll take your word for it :) would be good to do
something about it!

cheers,
 jo

>
> And indeed darktable in this case is close but not as good as Rawtherapee.
>
> --
>   Pascal Obry /  Magny Les Hameaux (78)
>
>   The best way to travel is by means of imagination
>
>   http://photos.obry.net
>   http://www.obry.net
>
>   gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B
>
> 
> darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to
> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

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Re: [darktable-user] Weird colors and difficult noise reduction compared to LightRoom or RawTherapee

[Pascal Obry]

Really good result indeed!

2016-12-08 12:08 GMT+01:00 Stéphane Gourichon <
stephane_darkta...@gourichon.org>:

> Le 08/12/2016 à 00:44, Saint Germain a écrit :
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I just bought a Samsung NX1 and would like to use Darktable to process
>> the RAW (SRW).
>>
>> However I really tried but I couldn't manage to get correct colors or
>> to have a good noise reduction in high iso situation (low light).
>>
>> I've tried LightRoom and RawTherapee and I managed (without knowing
>> these softwares) to get quite good results in under 5-10 minutes.
>> So far I think I've spent several hours with Darktable...
>>
>> I would really like to stay with Darktable (as I find the interface
>> quite pleasant and it offers a lot of useful features) but I really
>> need to have good colors and good noise reduction (at least comparable
>> to LR and RT) without too much tinkering.
>>
>>  From what I have heard, it seems that Darktable noise reduction is
>> very powerful and actually superior to LR or RT. Basic noise reduction
>> in LR or RT is very simple : 2 sliders and that's it (Luminance and
>> Details). However it is quite effective, and I haven't been able to do
>> better with Darktable (and it took me much more time, I even made a
>> noise profile !).
>>
>> Perhaps am I doing something wrong ?
>> Can someone guide me or show me how to proceed ?
>>
>
> Hello.
>
> Thanks for sharing all details.
> Attached is my take on it.
>
> Given base material (high iso, not much actual detail) I took a somehow
> more aggressive approach than usual (on the "preserve detail" vs. "kill
> noise" spectrum).
>
> Here's the parameter dump:
> * disable base curve
> * disable profiled denoise
> * RAW noise reduction, default parameters
> * increase exposure +3.10EV so that brightest part (yellow title) is just
> on top
> * bilateral filtering, red 0.04 green 0.02 blue 0.1
> * non-local means, default parameters
> * optionally, equalizer preset "noise reduction"
> * sharpen, default parameters
>
> Here are the rationales for those choices :
> * disable base curve: source is low dynamic range (paper) and furthermore
> already has its own base curve
> * disable profiled denoise: haven't imported your profile. Anyway, when
> strong, generally does not perform well with bilateral.
> * RAW noise reduction: filters part of noise, at the cost some
> high-frequency killing which is okay in this specific case
> * bilateral filtering: attenuates large area hue variations somehow,
> without losing details at this strength
> * non-local means: filters out some residual speckles
> * equalizer: reduces noise some more, at the cost of more loss of details
> * sharpen: to selectively recover edges attenuated by equalizer
>
> Somehow off-topic:
> * to correct barrel: chosen hackish lens correction parameters: NX10 and
> 20-50 F3.5-5.6 ED, looks good
> * set white balance "spot" selecting white part of title. Much better
> color, well, balance. Reset it to see how previous case could hide
> yellowish noise stains in white areas.
> * Subject is still. Why didn't you choose a longer exposure ? ISO would
> have been lower, so less noise to begin with.
>
> Regards.
>
> --
> Stéphane Gourichon
>
>
>
> 
> 
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscribe@lis
> ts.darktable.org
>



-- 
  Pascal Obry /  Magny Les Hameaux (78)

  The best way to travel is by means of imagination

  http://photos.obry.net
  http://www.obry.net

  gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B


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to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Weird colors and difficult noise reduction compared to LightRoom or RawTherapee

[Stéphane Gourichon]

Le 08/12/2016 à 00:44, Saint Germain a écrit :

Hello,

I just bought a Samsung NX1 and would like to use Darktable to process
the RAW (SRW).

However I really tried but I couldn't manage to get correct colors or
to have a good noise reduction in high iso situation (low light).

I've tried LightRoom and RawTherapee and I managed (without knowing
these softwares) to get quite good results in under 5-10 minutes.
So far I think I've spent several hours with Darktable...

I would really like to stay with Darktable (as I find the interface
quite pleasant and it offers a lot of useful features) but I really
need to have good colors and good noise reduction (at least comparable
to LR and RT) without too much tinkering.

 From what I have heard, it seems that Darktable noise reduction is
very powerful and actually superior to LR or RT. Basic noise reduction
in LR or RT is very simple : 2 sliders and that's it (Luminance and
Details). However it is quite effective, and I haven't been able to do
better with Darktable (and it took me much more time, I even made a
noise profile !).

Perhaps am I doing something wrong ?
Can someone guide me or show me how to proceed ?


Hello.

Thanks for sharing all details.
Attached is my take on it.

Given base material (high iso, not much actual detail) I took a somehow 
more aggressive approach than usual (on the "preserve detail" vs. "kill 
noise" spectrum).


Here's the parameter dump:
* disable base curve
* disable profiled denoise
* RAW noise reduction, default parameters
* increase exposure +3.10EV so that brightest part (yellow title) is 
just on top

* bilateral filtering, red 0.04 green 0.02 blue 0.1
* non-local means, default parameters
* optionally, equalizer preset "noise reduction"
* sharpen, default parameters

Here are the rationales for those choices :
* disable base curve: source is low dynamic range (paper) and 
furthermore already has its own base curve
* disable profiled denoise: haven't imported your profile. Anyway, when 
strong, generally does not perform well with bilateral.
* RAW noise reduction: filters part of noise, at the cost some 
high-frequency killing which is okay in this specific case
* bilateral filtering: attenuates large area hue variations somehow, 
without losing details at this strength

* non-local means: filters out some residual speckles
* equalizer: reduces noise some more, at the cost of more loss of details
* sharpen: to selectively recover edges attenuated by equalizer

Somehow off-topic:
* to correct barrel: chosen hackish lens correction parameters: NX10 and 
20-50 F3.5-5.6 ED, looks good
* set white balance "spot" selecting white part of title. Much better 
color, well, balance. Reset it to see how previous case could hide 
yellowish noise stains in white areas.
* Subject is still. Why didn't you choose a longer exposure ? ISO would 
have been lower, so less noise to begin with.


Regards.

--
Stéphane Gourichon



darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

 http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#;>
  http://ns.adobe.com/xap/1.0/;
xmlns:xmpMM="http://ns.adobe.com/xap/1.0/mm/;
xmlns:darktable="http://darktable.sf.net/;
   xmp:Rating="1"
   xmpMM:DerivedFrom="SAM_1274.SRW"
   darktable:xmp_version="1"
   darktable:raw_params="0"
   darktable:auto_presets_applied="1"
   darktable:history_end="18">
   

   
   

   
   

   
   

   
   

   
   

   
   

   
   

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 3
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 1
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 704170410ad7233d0ad7a33ccd3d
 

Re: [darktable-user] Weird colors and difficult noise reduction compared to LightRoom or RawTherapee

[Pascal Obry]

Jo,

The profile (.json) is provided by the author in its original message.

Fact is darktable is not has good has Lightroom indeed (my recollection is
that darktable was as good as Lr 3.x, but since Lr 4.x a new engine was
developped and the noise reduction gives very good result).

And indeed darktable in this case is close but not as good as Rawtherapee.

-- 
  Pascal Obry /  Magny Les Hameaux (78)

  The best way to travel is by means of imagination

  http://photos.obry.net
  http://www.obry.net

  gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B


darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] Weird colors and difficult noise reduction compared to LightRoom or RawTherapee

[johannes hanika]

seems we don't have a noise profile for your NX1.

-jo

On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 12:44 AM, Saint Germain  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I just bought a Samsung NX1 and would like to use Darktable to process
> the RAW (SRW).
>
> However I really tried but I couldn't manage to get correct colors or
> to have a good noise reduction in high iso situation (low light).
>
> I've tried LightRoom and RawTherapee and I managed (without knowing
> these softwares) to get quite good results in under 5-10 minutes.
> So far I think I've spent several hours with Darktable...
>
> I would really like to stay with Darktable (as I find the interface
> quite pleasant and it offers a lot of useful features) but I really
> need to have good colors and good noise reduction (at least comparable
> to LR and RT) without too much tinkering.
>
> From what I have heard, it seems that Darktable noise reduction is
> very powerful and actually superior to LR or RT. Basic noise reduction
> in LR or RT is very simple : 2 sliders and that's it (Luminance and
> Details). However it is quite effective, and I haven't been able to do
> better with Darktable (and it took me much more time, I even made a
> noise profile !).
>
> Perhaps am I doing something wrong ?
> Can someone guide me or show me how to proceed ?
>
> Original JPEG + RAW
> http://dl.free.fr/fBpM8C6I1
> http://dl.free.fr/jB13bvffN
>
> Rawtherapee (JPEG + pp3)
> http://dl.free.fr/vT4rAtm5O
> http://dl.free.fr/fJEcA3gH9
>
> Lightroom (JPEG)
> http://dl.free.fr/nEEcDqtq0
>
> Darktable Noise profile
> http://dl.free.fr/sZ8hCADDw
>
> Darktable (JPEG + xmp)
> http://dl.free.fr/fJQSonH7n
> http://dl.free.fr/knQbw4QMl
>
> Thanks a lot in advance,
> 
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>

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